Ike: A *Temporary* Detailed Matchup Guide: #37 - Ike(Fsmash)

[:mad:]

A good friend of mine main Mario and here is what I notice

At low %'s is when Mario can hurt Ike. He can uptilt 3 4 times before you can get out if it. and with that he will be in your face with upairs and nairs. Mario has fireballs which make for an alright approach. Flood really screws your recovery. The cape not so much. Fsmash is really his only kill move for Ike.

Umm... what? Are you saying that Dsmash, Upsmash, offstage Bair, and cape won't kill you? Uptilt with it's great speed can kill anywhere with a low ceiling, so I'd count that as an option.

On the other side of that Ike's fair out ranges anything Mario has (other than fireballs). Nairs work alot her. Bair is annoying since hes small. This matchup depends on the spacing really. Mario can die quickly though with ftilts fsmash bair ect.

I'll say either 50:50 or 55:45, 55 in Marios favor

full charged erupshun kills at 15% on fd. 90:10 ike..

 

[Teh Brettster]

full charged erupshun kills at 15% on fd. 90:10 ike..

Just under fully charged eruption kills at 10%. 100:0 Ike.

 

[Palpi]

Fully charged is bigger explosion 110:-10 ike. +1

 

[Slaps]

Fully charged is bigger explosion 110:-10 ike. +1

LMFAO! wrong again! We are talking about Ike here! Just because its Ike 120:-20 ike. +2

 

[Kimchi]

Back to matchup please. Anyway, this is a recent match by Rykoshet against Aizen-Sama. I saw some of the strengths and weaknesses of both characters in the video. I definitely saw the easy juggling capability by Mario as well as gimping potential (2:25, Aizen could have used his FLUDD). Ike can easily Fair over fireball pending on whether Mario gets predictable with his fireballs or not. I don't think Mario's DSmash is too reliable of a killing move against Ike. As you saw in the video, Ryko survived up to 143% from a fresh DSmash. FSmash and USmash seem like the major killing moves IMO for Mario against Ike. I don't think Ike can jab cancel in the matchup because like Luigi, it seems that Mario can Nair Ike after SDIing up. Ike has tilts as well as great OOS options if the Mario isn't careful with his approaches. I'm still a bit convinced that it's either 55:45 Mario's favor or 50:50.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

F-tilt can be punished on block pretty easily if Ike doesn't have optimal spacing (or PSed, since it's slow enough). And it's pretty laggy. F-air is not as laggy, but same story goes for it if Ike doesn't have optimal spacing. And it's also slow enough for a rather easy PS.

F-smash can be camped, and the ending lag is large enough to be punished in other ways so who the **** cares if it pushes away people 90 miles.

Jab is punished by Up-B.

If you do any other aerials, special moves, those get punished on block by Up-smash or by other dumb crap. Quick Draw fully charged has good shield pushback, but is so massively laggy that a reverse F-smash punishes it out of shield.

Mario basically can easily punish Ike's entire moveset on block. You can't really do anything fancy in this matchup, and anything that somehow isn't punishable on block, I could be camping out anyway. And as I was saying, if you're gonna whine that fireballs aren't a big deal because you can easily PS them, Ike's F-air is also an easy PS, and in that case a free F-smash for Mario.

All this especially matters when Mario lands hits or throws you upwards, since basically Ike is more or less helpless once he's tossed in the air. Especially on FD, you're more or less screwed if you do any attacks while coming down and the Mario doesn't suck at reacting. Pretty much all of Ike's aerials are blockable on reaction. Ike is pretty slow in the air, so it's not hard for Mario to chase and stay under him and then shield -> Up-smash whatever Ike does (including F-air). If Ike air dodges, that can be rather easily punished with grabs or D-air, both of which restart the situation for Ike again.

Right, so I'll expect you're gonna tell me something about Ike landing random Up-airs from his Up-throw...but he's significantly slower and more telegraphed, and the option of edgeguarding if Mario DIs towards the ledge isn't nearly as viable for him.

The one thing you can be glad about: Mario doesn't have very good grab range, so there is a bit more room for error on his part when throw juggling Ike. Of course, you gotta watch yourselves against a guy like ROB...who can easily win this matchup with just grabs. =/

The problem is you said upsmash OOS not avoid the attack completely and then punish. So yah if Ike decides to charge his forward smash in the other direction then you probably can just walk up and upsmash him. Any move that you punish with out upsmash still makes you wrong.

I also like how your talking about QD like we use it to approach attack or even at all lol

edit: Uptilt juggling only works for about 2 hits at most if you SDI it. At 0 I think you can SDI down and power shield the second one actually. Skyleroccon told me that good marios actually stopped using uptilt juggling because of how easy it is to escape now.

 

[:mad:]

The problem is you said upsmash OOS not avoid the attack completely and then punish. So yah if Ike decides to charge his forward smash in the other direction then you probably can just walk up and upsmash him. Any move that you punish with out upsmash still makes you wrong.

I also like how your talking about QD like we use it to approach attack or even at all lol

edit: Uptilt juggling only works for about 2 hits at most if you SDI it. At 0 I think you can SDI down and power shield the second one actually. Skyleroccon told me that good marios actually stopped using uptilt juggling because of how easy it is to escape now.

All of this is correct.

And yes, we seldom Up-tilt juggle, unless against fastfallers, heavies, space animals, etc.

 

[HeroMystic]

Up-tilt juggling is mainly used against bulky/fast-falling characters. However, we also use it against idiots as well.

 

[Kirk]

I played BO X7 last Saturday in the tournament I went to. He got 1st in his pool and I got 4th in mine, so we ended up playing each other first round.

Every game was pretty close but I ended up with the set win 2-1. He won the first on Battlefield, I CP'd Pictochat and won, then he CP'd Luigi's and I won that won barely.

Fludd and Cape gimps are fun. :D

Too lazy to write more, but I think its more or less even. Mario's greatest assets are his gimping ability and his low-percent combos.

 

[kamimari36]

I hate when Mario does that ledge-cape-extendcape thing. No QD for you.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I hate when Mario does that ledge-cape-extendcape thing. No QD for you.

....

Why would you QD in the first place?

 

[Kirk]

....

Why would you QD in the first place?

Because you NEED to use it sometimes, believe it or not.

I.E. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnXtJxtx7Fg @1:09

Can't get back from that with Aether.

 

[Palpi]

Thinking QD is 100% useless is ******** and you should feel bad.

Everyone match with Ike I have to use it to get back atleast once.

 

[:mad:]

I hate when Mario does that ledge-cape-extendcape thing. No QD for you.

wut.

Capestall? It's like a slower version of Link/TL/Samus zair edgehogging, but I've never seen anyone complain about it.

 

[san.]

Because you NEED to use it sometimes, believe it or not.

I.E. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnXtJxtx7Fg @1:09

Can't get back from that with Aether.

If you're surprised and forget to DI up or in time, that may happen, but Ikes are screwed in general if they don't DI up attacks when they're punished. If you have to use QD, that just means you messed up your DI. If that happens, consider yourself dead unless you're lucky the opponent doesn't feel like grabbing the ledge lol (or if you were hit from the left side of the stage to the right).

I see not DIing happening a lot more in 2vs2. In 1vs1 obstacles and attacks are a lot more conserved and can be easily detected, especially after a mistake.

 

[Palpi]

I always DI up. There is certain angle where just DI'ing up won't bring you high enough to drift over for an aether.

 

[san.]

I would be happy if you would describe these angles, and then how they pertain to some of Mario's moves.

 

[Palpi]

I was generally speaking because there was what I thought was a false statement. Stuff can send you horizontal enough even if you DI up to need QD to recover.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yes, there are a very number of few times you would use QD.

Mario isn't one of those times due to that cape. >_>

 

[Kimchi]

Specifically, Fox and Falco's DSmash sends you at a horizontal angle even if you angle up I believe. Anyway, I'll submit a write-up soon. Let's talk about some of the viable counterpicks and suggestions for bans for both characters. Can we agree the matchup is 50:50 or 55:45 Mario's favor?

 

[:mad:]

55:45 is just fine with us. Even I'd settle for 50:50.

Anything that needs clarification on Mario's side?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I say 50:50.

I can't really think of any clarification needed.

 

[luke_atyeo]

wut.

Capestall? It's like a slower version of Link/TL/Samus zair edgehogging, but I've never seen anyone complain about it.

no not a capestall, a cape dash, its when mario does a cape as he runs off the ledge and it boosts him horizontally across while in the cape animation. if they're doing that then you pretty much cant quick dash back to the ledge ever.

 

[:mad:]

no not a capestall, a cape dash, its when mario does a cape as he runs off the ledge and it boosts him horizontally across while in the cape animation. if they're doing that then you pretty much cant quick dash back to the ledge ever.

Oh, yeah. Capedash -> Nair wrecks anyone like Link or Ike.

And yeah, 50:50's generous, and more accurate than an advantage. Mario has... few good matchups in his favor, anyway.

 

[§leepy God]

♫ Has this match up been set as well, or we are still on it? Since I've been away for a while, I guess it's weird to ask this question. ☼

 

[Teh Brettster]

Let's go to our last one. Samus, correct?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ya, Samus is the last one.

Our estimate is 6-4 Ike's A
Samus board's first match-up list said 55-45
Samus board's newest match-up list says 35-65.

>_>

 

[§leepy God]

♫ I'll at least say it's Ike's advantage unless it's lagfi. But I'll say around 55-45 though because of Samus's projectiles. ☼

 

[:mad:]

As of now, the general consensus is 50:50, or 55:45 Mario's favor.

If you oppose of either ratio, then we can still discuss it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

As of now, the general consensus is 50:50, or 55:45 Mario's favor.

If you oppose of either ratio, then we can still discuss it.

We're probably going to put down 5-5.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I would not say 6:4 Ike in the Samus match-up. It's tough to get a safe approach. Projectile spam does really well for her against Ike.
I played against Xyro recently and SHEESH, it was tough. We can't really even take her to Pirate Ship and be too confident. She gets out of the water like it's nothing with that upB (which pretty much saves her from spikes anywhere).
I we played on Jungle Japes. That was a NIGHTMARE. I got a jab -> Dtilt kill on my second stock because I was able to approach onto the side platform safely.. one time. I didn't get more than 40 or so damage on his second stock.
Zair is a *****. If we get too close and her projectiles aren't safe, VSHT (retreating Zair sound effect). It's also got gimping potential, I'd say.
She's floaty, so don't expect your jabs to keep on going once you start them.

I just don't think this one is in our favor, Ikes. 35-65, they say? Hmm. I'd think about 4-6 or so against us. I may have agreed with 35-65, but I'm trying to take into account that I had never played the match-up before this weekend against Xyro.
Please prove me wrong?

 

[§leepy God]

♫ I thought it might be a tough match up, no wonder my friend basically beat my Ike at the finals with Samus, I thought it was a strange. I'll go as low as 40-60 Samus, no lower however. ☼

 

[Monkey Business]

The matchup against Samus for Ike has to be in Samus' favor
her projectiles alone gives her a great advantage.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The matchup against Samus for Ike has to be in Samus' favor
her projectiles alone gives her a great advantage.

They don't give her a great advantage. Ike's sword stops the missiles safely, so that's 2/3 projectiles taken care of right there. (Not counting the bomb, as I'm not really sure that counts as a projectile. It doesn't move anywhere except for when effected by gravity)

It's the Zair that helps her the most. It out ranges us, and little to no landing lag. Once we get close enough to hit her, it becomes less of a problem, but until then...

Blast it, where is that right up I wrote for the previous Ike vs Samus match-up discussion? I basically covered everything in that write up....it was basically once we get inside Jab range, Samus is going to get beaten up around the map, and will most likely loose her % lead she had built up before.

And Brett: no offense, but I think part of your problem is that Xyro is probably a more skilled player. He places in top 8 constantly with Samus. Against MKs and other top tier characters.

 

[Rhyme]

Not so consistantly anymore, lol. Anyway...

Samus 60:40 Ike (Experience is against Inui's and Rykochet's Ike.)

Samus has plenty of projectiles at her disposal. Uncharged B and homing missile move very slowly, so you will get punished if you attempt to destroy them with your sword. Every time. Shielding can get you grabbed, shield-poked, or out-zoned, so that's not a great idea either. Jumping sets you up for Uair/Fair, and you don't have any real follow-ups if you air-dodge the aerial. Going airborn gets you Zaired.

Samus has the advantage off-stage. Miss the upB sweetspot by even a little and you'll get Zaired->Zaired->Dair/Nair almost every time. Air-dodging the second Zair will get you spiked assuming the Samus knows what to do (and isn't on WiFi). You'll need to be very consistant here. Homing missile will **** your overB so be careful.

That said, Samus' tougher matchups are against characters who can rush her effectively, and Ike can do just that. He will have a very rough time getting inside of Samus' defenses, but it's not impossible. That's why I've listed the match as somewhat in Samus' favor.

 

[Slaps]

I would not say 6:4 Ike in the Samus match-up. It's tough to get a safe approach. Projectile spam does really well for her against Ike.
I played against Xyro recently and SHEESH, it was tough. We can't really even take her to Pirate Ship and be too confident. She gets out of the water like it's nothing with that upB (which pretty much saves her from spikes anywhere).
I we played on Jungle Japes. That was a NIGHTMARE. I got a jab -> Dtilt kill on my second stock because I was able to approach onto the side platform safely.. one time. I didn't get more than 40 or so damage on his second stock.
Zair is a *****. If we get too close and her projectiles aren't safe, VSHT (retreating Zair sound effect). It's also got gimping potential, I'd say.
She's floaty, so don't expect your jabs to keep on going once you start them.

I just don't think this one is in our favor, Ikes. 35-65, they say? Hmm. I'd think about 4-6 or so against us. I may have agreed with 35-65, but I'm trying to take into account that I had never played the match-up before this weekend against Xyro.
Please prove me wrong?

oh yeah i play with xyro all the time and yeah its trouble... but yeah projectiles are hard to avoid with samus, like once you get close enough you will either get Zaired or your shield would have been poked at enough by missles, Zairs, and whatever that energy blast is that he can just hit you away, and it also sucks to get gimped by his Zair.

 

[Xyro77]

Ike is my 2nd easiest match-up in this game.

Its in samus favor 60-40 and not in IKEs. You people give that character too much credit.

Rhyme, ike CANNOT rush samus. LOLOLOLOLOL. Dont feed them lies they may take it serious

 

[Teh Brettster]

WHOA, wait a minute, what ever happened to the numbers on this match-up? We just sort of stopped and forgot to start again... or did we finish this match-up?

 

[§leepy God]

♫ I think Samus was the last character since it says 36. We might have to update our match up guide since the new their list has been made. ☼

♫ Edited: Wait, never mind, I don't think we did Zero Suit Samus yet. ☼

 

[Kimchi]

We did do Zero Suit Samus. Technically, the last matchup that we have to cover would be Ike himself (10fsmashes lol). I don't think we covered the Samus matchup too thoroughly though.