Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[Palpi]

I am sorry for using the word combo, obviously there is no combos in the air for Ike, but for example possibly a nair to bair or a nair approach can be really useful. I suppose elaborate was the wrong word

Really meant combo'ing stuff into or out of his nair, (like a jab combo and what not) but I was too general with my choice of words.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Great, I don't know much about Diddy Kong........it really depends on how well Ike can get control of the Bananas I guess. And the stage, that would play a big factor as well due to banana placement.

 

[Palpi]

Anything with platform(s). Lol

 

[ADHD]

What? I'd say... oh, no matchup rations

Anyway, imo Diddy ***** Ike. He can't really use bananas well and doesn't have any projectiles. His attacks are strong but slow. All he can do is A, A and A again (the jab combo).

Ike can't really recovery good and bananas just **** him.


I think Ike could try to jump over the bananas with nairs, those are annoying.

But yeah... otherwise Ike can't really do much... he just can't come past the bananas and it's difficult for him to even come near to Diddy.

No, really good ikes are hard to handle. In my opinion diddy has the advantage against ike, but it's even and very slight. 55-45 in diddy's favor. You CANT make mistakes or else you really get punished and it's hard to regain momentum against ike. Diddy should just be campy, since ike can't really do anything else but approach. If he just powershields the peanut camping, what has diddy got to lose? Just bait ike to make a mistake and then punish him. If you let ike get into your camping fortress it's hard to get control. How lots of ike's space fairs, it's unimportant to diddy he can just space away from it. The worst thing for a diddy player is to have ike getting his spacing game into action (mid ranged of course)

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

lol @ first 2 posts and the first sentence being numbers... It's just something that has to be said because it's a bases to start off. I'll post some other stuff later. not sure if the diddy I fight is a good one or not though.

edit: *face palm* 2 people already said diddy just ***** Ike because of bananas while I was skimming this.

 

[Hoser]

QD goes over bananas, right? I played a Diddy yesterday, and I recall it going over them, but I'm not positive.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

ummm no...

 

[Hoser]

Are you sure? I swear I did it. It was fully charged. I'd try it myself, but my Wii isn't here right now.

 

[Ussi]

Banana > fsmash is one of my favorite combos... In teams. My partner and I named it banana sandwich.

Chrome got it right. I support everything he said about this match up. Ike has a general 60% stock advantage to make up for getting combo'd. Bananas do go thru aether but Ike can still come back since diddy can't pull them out fast enough to stop a 2nd one. On FD it's not horrid but much more up hill for Ike. BF is ideal.

EDIT: you will slip on a banana if it's BEHIND when charging QD so no it doesn't go thru

 

[Rykoshet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdlqpIuTHj4&fmt=18

*shrug* Just thought it'd be a good example of the matchup.

 

[Kinzer]

I love how Bananigans are TMed.

 

[Rykoshet]

Heard it here first

 

[Vyse]

I've had really bad experiences against good Ike's. I'm more scared of a good Ike than I am of Metaknight.

I couldn't (and per request won't) put a ratio on the match up. Fundamentally, Diddy has the advantage. But it's like Diddy's match up with DK. Diddy gets punished hard if he makes a mistake. Granted that the Diddy is good, Diddy's will simply do what they do best in this matchup, and that's pressure hard. You've just got to be patient with Ike and interrupt his approaches. Try learning how to catch thrown items, Short hop and throw them back whilst approaching at the same time.

In this matchup Diddy's will get overconfident sometimes, and it gets to the point of being predictable. So just do what Ike does best. Diddy's light-medium weight, so against Ike's sword he dies fairly early.

Catch those bananas and lock Diddy down. Bait and punish.

 

[ADHD]

I've had really bad experiences against good Ike's. I'm more scared of a good Ike than I am of Metaknight.

I couldn't (and per request won't) put a ratio on the match up. Fundamentally, Diddy has the advantage. But it's like Diddy's match up with DK. Diddy gets punished hard if he makes a mistake. Granted that the Diddy is good, Diddy's will simply do what they do best in this matchup, and that's pressure hard. You've just got to be patient with Ike and interrupt his approaches. Try learning how to catch thrown items, Short hop and throw them back whilst approaching at the same time.

In this matchup Diddy's will get overconfident sometimes, and it gets to the point of being predictable. So just do what Ike does best. Diddy's light-medium weight, so against Ike's sword he dies fairly early.

Catch those bananas and lock Diddy down. Bait and punish.

I still don't understand how DK has the advantage over diddy >_<

 

[Vyse]

I still don't understand how DK has the advantage over diddy >_<

I'd call it neutral. But then, I haven't faced too many DKs.

 

[Guilhe]

I think Ike would have to have unbeleivable spacing while on the offensive, but generally wait for Diddy to make the first move, since many of ike's moves are slow enough, even a autocancel nair or bair, to be punished by a quick throw of a Banana.

I don’t agree with this. It is not like Diddy has awesome range on his attacks, we outrange him by a large margin. Therefore, our spacing doesn’t need to be “unbelievable”. Also, we will have to do the approaching, as Diddy will probably just camp with bananas or the peanut gun and step in once we fall for it.

I would say Diddy has the advantage as he has much more opportunities for punishing us than we have to punish him.

 

[Royta]

I find that it's pretty easy to pick up banana's with Ike's dash attack...

Something I've been wondering though.... How is Ike's glide toss? And is it useful for anything? Since banana's are going to be out pretty often, I was curious if Ike could use them to his advantage or w/e.

We don't have a glide toss, but Item Boosting is very handy (lets Ike slide the distance of about half FD).
If you get a banana it could lead to a nice jab or whatever, still its a minor thing.

But my 5 cents on this matchup, throw him off balance. Stay on the offensive, and don't let him get the momentum. Throw him of the stage and try and keep him of the stage, runoff fairs, spikes, upair, anything. Reverse aether from the edge could kill his recovery if your timing is right (watch out for renegade barrels ;p)

Bananaslip to Fsmash is also very...very...satisfying xD yet nearly impossible to do.

A good diddy will keep up the pressure and will keep moving. Do the same, never stand still, never go on the defensive, and put the pressure up to maximum. Don't give him a seconds thought.

 

[Palpi]

I don’t agree with this. It is not like Diddy has awesome range on his attacks, we outrange him by a large margin. Therefore, our spacing doesn’t need to be “unbelievable”. Also, we will have to do the approaching, as Diddy will probably just camp with bananas or the peanut gun and step in once we fall for it.

I would say Diddy has the advantage as he has much more opportunities for punishing us than we have to punish him.

Okay, but our spacing would need to be good, and probably cautious while we approach so we don't get punished.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Something I've learned against diddy is you can't roll at all. Usually there are bananas spaced so that you trip if you do and then diddy gets some kind of smash attack combo.

 

[MysticKenji]

If Diddy starts using the nanaz, do what George Bush does best (besides lie):
Matrix!

^ great advice

 

[Kinzer]

The news about that was just too good.

Anyway about Diddy Kong's best and worst stages... what are they?

I would think Japes sucks for Diddy if he gets caught in the water since the Barrel recovery takes time, and I'm not sure how a jump to Diddy hump could catch the ledge... but then again Diddy is more of a horizontal killer.

I still hate japes anyway.

Let's see... what else is there... perhaps Frigate Orpheon... maybe not... I dunno...

D'oh screw it, take him to Castle Siege, at least we have the home advantage!

 

[MysticKenji]

Anyway about Diddy Kong's best and worst stages... what are they?

Best is FD for obvious reasons.

Wosrt when fighting Ike...i really have no certain stage in mind, but very non-flat stages like Brinstar/Norfair should work well.

 

[Palpi]

Jungle Japes is also not as good for diddy cause it does not give him that much room to work with compared to FD. A fight on the edges would be beneficial for the Ike player. Also Ike's good play on Battlefield, could work as well.

 

[metroid1117]

I thought of something that may work: If the Diddy is throwing a banana at you, turn around and shield so that after the banana hits, you can BAir out of shield to ward off the incoming grab or dash attack. What do you guys think? I did this over Wi-fi (but yeah... it's Wi-fi), but I have no idea if this is viable off-line. If it is, it can really help Ike deal with banana pressure.

 

[Rykoshet]

if diddy throws a banana at you and you blocked it with your back turned, chances are they wont follow up that way, and if they do and get back aired, then more power to you. It's something worth doing but not making a staple.

 

[Ussi]

Metroid it's called mindgames. Keep at it.

I think learning to catch bananas thrown at you is a good reflex to get used too.

 

[metroid1117]

if diddy throws a banana at you and you blocked it with your back turned, chances are they wont follow up that way, and if they do and get back aired, then more power to you. It's something worth doing but not making a staple.

Hmm, okay.

I think learning to catch bananas thrown at you is a good reflex to get used too.

Do you know if you can catch bananas from your back? It would be sooooo cool if you could hit a Diddy with reverse NAir while catching their banana.

 

[Ussi]

You can catch from anywhere in the air I believe. (since I do HRC for fun I have grabbed the bat behind me in the air)

 

[Guilhe]

Just went to a tournament and lost to a Diddy. Got any tips for not doing better next time?

 

[YagamiLight]

Just went to a tournament and lost to a Diddy. Got any tips for not doing better next time?

For not doing better? Get no sleep the night beforehand.

But for doing better, there's always a few things to do whenever you lose.

It's a close match, so if you lose because

a) The Diddy is a better player than you then: Just keep playing until you improve.

b) Diddy Kong's Banana tricks got to you then : Learn how to catch bananas and control them yourself.

c) The Diddy Kong managed to utilize stages well then: Strikeout and CP optimally.

If you have any videos I'd gladly critique you.

 

[Nitrix]

Diddy has the fundemental advantage but gets punished horribly. I've faced a decent amount of Ike's on wifi, and typically Diddy controls the match. Usually things go fine, but if you make one mistake then its over. An overconfident Diddy will eventually get hit, and pay a ton for his mistake.

If Ike counterpicks well, Battlefield would'nt be a bad choice. The platforms are very annoying for a Diddy.

 

[Ussi]

brawl on wifi is nothing like offline.. It's much more harder to dodge and rolling becomes amazing. Plus you see things coming but input lag kills. :/ I'm not bashing wifi per say, cause with good practice you can get used to input lag, but it's a difference on reaction time definally.

 

[Kirk]

Funny...I fought a diddy in winners finals today and 3-0'd him. xD

He was a hardcore naner camper...as in he did NOT approach unless a banana was being thrown or hit you.

Basically...stay off the ground a lot...and predict approaches. Since he liked to throw a banana and go in for a grab a lot, I just grabbed him after the shielding the naner and before he could grab me.

Basically his downfall was his one-track playstyle...and I capitalized. But yeah...naners are still annoying as ****.

 

[NinjaLink]

Just to add Ike has an AMAZING boost toss.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Kirk, did I just read that right? You won a tournament with Ike? Was it one that would count for tournament results? If so.........W00T!!! Ike has his first tournament win. If not.........repeat that win at a tournament that counts. >_> <_<

Also: How well does Diddy do at Green Greens and Pirate Ship?

 

[Kirk]

Yeah it was a 30-ish person tournament...didn't lose a set this time around. I was gonna wait until the TO posted the results and stuff...but w/e. Won doubles too...not that it matters. :o

I didn't get a chance to play him on Pirate Ship or Green Greens...he banned Pirate Ship...cause everyone does that for me now >.> He opted for flat stages...mostly smashville and luigis mansion. I banned FD...which seemed like a no-brainer. I imagine Ike would have a bit more of an advantage on Pirate Ship...though I wouldn't know about Green Greens...don't know how Diddy does there.

 

[NinjaLink]

Green Greens i would assume be good due to multiple edges near the 'middle' area. Cant edgehog him there being theres 2 edges.

 

[Tribeman]

My buddy has been trying to find a decent new main for him, guess he got tired of Fox. He's been using Diddy.

There are a few things you need to look out for, but if you play smart and see what is coming, Diddy is actually quite an easy win for Ike.

Of course, number 1 is Naner Control. Those Naners are the biggest obstacle that Ike will have to over come. Spot Dodging and taking to the air is obviously the best way to avoid, but you also need to be able to pick them up. Whoever has Naner control will most definitely take control of the Match. Personally, once I take a stock from Diddy, I toss the Naners and get them out of the way.

Another thing is his Dash attack, which has virtually no lag afterwards which set you up for a number of combos. A more common one in my opinion is his up tilt right after the dash attack, because at low percentage it continues to combo. One thing my buddy does is he will shoot a peanut to distract you and then come right to you as you try to avoid the peanut.

A thing to look out for is his Down Smash. You don't want to get too close at a high percentage because that is a really good kill move other than his forward throw. When I'm at a high percentage, I try to avoid getting TOO close to Diddy just like I would avoid getting Dolphin Slashed out of shield by Marth.

Of course your edge guard game has to be good. Timing your edge grabs is your best friend and when you are in the air over the side of the stage, you'll definitely want to be careful for his Down Air/Up-B because both of those spike big time.

I personally am trying to get into more of a habit of Nair-AAA combo, but Fair is probably your best friend against Diddy. Keeping your distance and shielding/dodging always good.

I almost forgot! His tilts are really good and definitely annoying. When over the edge, his down tilt "clap" can get annoying, nothing painful but just irritating. His side and up tilts are always good at knocking you back a bit.

And of course, his Fsmash is always easy to kill you when you are against the ledge. The first will knock you off the side causing you to drop your shield and the second fist (which seems to have a lengthened hitbox) will in most cases put you past the Blast Line.

I didn't want to make this HUGE post any longer than necessary, if theres anything I missed call me out on it and I'll tell you my thoughts.

To sum this all up, a lot of Diddy's attacks come from the core, which is his Dash Attack. Naners and Peanuts help set it up since the last person to throw a Naner doesn't trip on them and be careful with those smash attacks. Fair is my best friend when facing Diddy. Even if it does diminish, it'll eventually rack up some serious damage and has great knock back. Get him with this over the edge and you'll more likely than not knock him out.

 

[Tribeman]

Oh I forgot counter picks

I'm not afraid to face Diddy on FD, just play smart. But I personally like anything with a lip on the ledge or water where you can spike. Pirate ship is good against him, but you have to remember he can spike you too, so timing is key. Delphino plaza and Halberd are other favorites of mine against Diddy because if he tries to come from the middle of the platform, sometimes he might not reach it with his Up-B, causing him to fall to his doom, and if he makes it, you can go for the quick punish, I like to Ftilt in those cases.

Stages with lips and water that you could consider Ike's weak stages can actually become a strong stage if you are smart. Luigi's Mansion has that irritating lip, Diddy will sometimes screw himself with his side B, same goes with Pokemon Stadium (forgot which one is better).

I don't like Green Greens against Diddy because of the small space Diddy can combo you. The only thing I DO like about it is that hitting the boxes on the side cause slow moves like Fsmash to lag more and sometimes Diddy can make a mistake and get caught in the slowness of it, but other than that I personally would avoid Green Greens against Diddy.

 

[Guilhe]

Basically...stay off the ground a lot...and predict approaches. Since he liked to throw a banana and go in for a grab a lot, I just grabbed him after the shielding the naner and before he could grab me.

From what I’ve experienced, Diddy can punish Fair with a banana even when correctly spaced. So I should approach just with Nair?