r3d d09
Smash Master
don't you hate when that happens :/
-
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Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee
- Thread starter Prawn
- Start date
Hello Everyone this is Cura.
I dont really get on smashboards that much or post/read thread other than region related topics. But i thought id shed some light on the zss match up sense i think there was some trouble on it from what ive read.
I do play Snakeee quite often and to my opinion hes got the best zss. In fact i team with him every tournament for the past 3 events. So im fimiliar with Zss's playstyle. And i just won last tournament and beat snakeee (All Zss) in winners semi finals. So Perhaps i can help.
Zero Suit has amazing defensive game and range which at time is makes her hard to approach, But most of her moves hav some end lag on it and are relatively slow. The main key for me when im playin zss is to be patient. But the ability to perfect sheild moves is the key here. Most Zss mains will camp IC with Neutral B and her Side B. This is when you take advantage of her lagly moves. He side b has amazing range obviously but it ends fairly slowly. When you notice the Side B is initiating Dash in And Perfect Shield and grab. Its really really really so easy to do. And now with her inability to camp you properly she get aggressive with dash attacks and well spaced back airs.
Now that her Side B ground game is out of the picture. Her Bairs are equally troublesome. Even with perfect Shielding its hard punish it. Personally i would space her bair with better spaced blizzards. That can often lead in to grab or smashes (If De synced). Other than that i don't see zss as a very hard match up. shes extremely easy to cg and dies at a relatively low percent.
The short version. Perfect shield grab her camp game and out space her close game. When you do grab make sure u use it to the fullest we all now how hard it is to grab players, Especially the top players.
Hopefully this helped some!
-Cura
I dont really get on smashboards that much or post/read thread other than region related topics. But i thought id shed some light on the zss match up sense i think there was some trouble on it from what ive read.
I do play Snakeee quite often and to my opinion hes got the best zss. In fact i team with him every tournament for the past 3 events. So im fimiliar with Zss's playstyle. And i just won last tournament and beat snakeee (All Zss) in winners semi finals. So Perhaps i can help.
Zero Suit has amazing defensive game and range which at time is makes her hard to approach, But most of her moves hav some end lag on it and are relatively slow. The main key for me when im playin zss is to be patient. But the ability to perfect sheild moves is the key here. Most Zss mains will camp IC with Neutral B and her Side B. This is when you take advantage of her lagly moves. He side b has amazing range obviously but it ends fairly slowly. When you notice the Side B is initiating Dash in And Perfect Shield and grab. Its really really really so easy to do. And now with her inability to camp you properly she get aggressive with dash attacks and well spaced back airs.
Now that her Side B ground game is out of the picture. Her Bairs are equally troublesome. Even with perfect Shielding its hard punish it. Personally i would space her bair with better spaced blizzards. That can often lead in to grab or smashes (If De synced). Other than that i don't see zss as a very hard match up. shes extremely easy to cg and dies at a relatively low percent.
The short version. Perfect shield grab her camp game and out space her close game. When you do grab make sure u use it to the fullest we all now how hard it is to grab players, Especially the top players.
Hopefully this helped some!
-Cura
Aglow
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for the imput Gaia. I wish this thread wasn't so scattered/half *****. I could have used some more marth.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Cura, is it true you're moving back to SoVa? I could use some training from you. =)
i can input more matchup help if itss needed just let me know. Im fairly good at alot of Ice climbers bad/werid match ups. The set me vs snakeee isnt on yt i dont think. but once i get vidz of that match up id be more than happy to upload it.
as far as me moving back to SoVA i guess we'll have to see :]
as far as me moving back to SoVA i guess we'll have to see :]
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Hey guys I just wanted to put this out there, you can u-tilt or d-tilt Falco's Forward b. U-tilt when you're both on the stage. It'll cancel youre u-tilt and make him land on the ground putting him in that silly after up-b landing lag.
r3d d09
Smash Master
I wish you would post more often 
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Hey in the Kirby boards we're discussing the ICs match-up; any drop by for any knowledge on the MU would be appreciated- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271925
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
This thread is megadead, btw. We should remove it.
heya sorry for bumping this but the Lucas boards are rediscussing the ICs MU and we would love some input ^_^
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=281959
Thank you in advanced.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=281959
Thank you in advanced.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Next time just put it in the ICGD.
JoeCool33
Smash Cadet
MK is very hard for me...
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
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Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
No one ever listens. Stop posting in here.
Joe_Cool
Smash Cadet
Oh just a tip with snake..he is very easy to hobble. I destroy them..if I can get a grab in
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
What.
The.
****.
Did.
I.
Just.
Say.
The.
****.
Did.
I.
Just.
Say.
Sorto
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Messages
- 409
Man this thing is so outdated..... WHY does it say we lose to zelda?
And opinions on marth.
Id say the match-up is 45/55 in marths favor
Disadvantages:
-Marth has the tools to keep the ICs from getting a grab. This mainly comes in the form of range and his fair being able to keep us at bay.
-Sure ICs outspace all of marths options with blizzard, but with proper DI, and up-b blizzard should never lead to a grab. Blizzard racks on damage but with good DI marth can force us to trade hits with his fair, dancing blade or up-b a lot of the time.
-In general the climbers we will rack on damage faster, but getting the kill without landing a grab is hard for the climbers. It becomes a game of, will we land a kill move or a grab (which should equal a kill) before marth kills our nana.
-Marth has a solid gimp game and should have no problem gimping a seperated nana. Also with good spacing, a fresh tipper fsmash could kill nana at 70%, so gimping isnt even completely necessary.
-Marth can easily take on solo popo. You do not want to have to be playing this match-up.
-Marth is a decent juggler. You may not have to worry alot, but make sure to tell your nana, cause once she is in the air, the only way she is comin down is if you land a hit on marth with popo.
-Pivot grabbing has minimal uses in this match because all of marths attacks are disjointed.
-Marths Up-b can save him from getting grabbed ALL DAY on any stage with a platform if he plans correctly. And he should never be playing on a stage without a platform due to banning rules. His up-b will usually allow him to escape being grabbed and knock the climbers away or if sheilded he will land on a higher platform and chance being juggled by up-airs, which is still better then being grabbed. And this move won't be used to often, only if his spacing is slightly off, so you won't get as many free up-airs as you would like.
Advantages:
Don't worry Marth isn't too beastly, as I said its only 45/55.
-As I said early, we outrange this girly swordsman, so abuse that where you can. Racking on damage with blizzard will def give the marth player lots of pressure.
-The ICs will often be trading hits with marth and be in % advantage. Ofcourse really % isnt a big issue with climbers, because they are a character with a large achilles heal (nana) and are played in an all or nothing manner. They have super strong offensive choices, awesome combos, and a move thats an instadeath. But once nana is gone, all they can take down reliably is ganondorfs, if that. So remember, even tho marths at 200%, your overly abused blizzard and ice shots still wont kill him.
-Marth has no good seperating moves. So don't worry so much about being seperated. Desynches and nanas lag time on putting up sheild will cause most of your seperation.
-Marth has nothing good against the climbers on the ground. Most, if not all of marths ground moves can be sheild grabbed or sheild dropped to dashgrabbed, even at tipper range. So if marth is playing you on the ground, then he doesn't know the match-up, his only hope is using dancing blade and faking you out with, is he gonna do one hit or two or three or what and even with a little prediction you can sheild grab and punish that.
-Marth has no good options above us. His dair really sucks and unless he is countering, chances are he will be eating some up airs if he is above us.
-If the marth isn't NEO when it comes to spacing, or even if he is, make sure to dash to sheild at his fairs, because if his spacing is off enough, their is a fairly decent chance of landing a shield grab or at the very least scaring him into going for an up-b and then up-airing him for it.
And opinions on marth.
Id say the match-up is 45/55 in marths favor
Disadvantages:
-Marth has the tools to keep the ICs from getting a grab. This mainly comes in the form of range and his fair being able to keep us at bay.
-Sure ICs outspace all of marths options with blizzard, but with proper DI, and up-b blizzard should never lead to a grab. Blizzard racks on damage but with good DI marth can force us to trade hits with his fair, dancing blade or up-b a lot of the time.
-In general the climbers we will rack on damage faster, but getting the kill without landing a grab is hard for the climbers. It becomes a game of, will we land a kill move or a grab (which should equal a kill) before marth kills our nana.
-Marth has a solid gimp game and should have no problem gimping a seperated nana. Also with good spacing, a fresh tipper fsmash could kill nana at 70%, so gimping isnt even completely necessary.
-Marth can easily take on solo popo. You do not want to have to be playing this match-up.
-Marth is a decent juggler. You may not have to worry alot, but make sure to tell your nana, cause once she is in the air, the only way she is comin down is if you land a hit on marth with popo.
-Pivot grabbing has minimal uses in this match because all of marths attacks are disjointed.
-Marths Up-b can save him from getting grabbed ALL DAY on any stage with a platform if he plans correctly. And he should never be playing on a stage without a platform due to banning rules. His up-b will usually allow him to escape being grabbed and knock the climbers away or if sheilded he will land on a higher platform and chance being juggled by up-airs, which is still better then being grabbed. And this move won't be used to often, only if his spacing is slightly off, so you won't get as many free up-airs as you would like.
Advantages:
Don't worry Marth isn't too beastly, as I said its only 45/55.
-As I said early, we outrange this girly swordsman, so abuse that where you can. Racking on damage with blizzard will def give the marth player lots of pressure.
-The ICs will often be trading hits with marth and be in % advantage. Ofcourse really % isnt a big issue with climbers, because they are a character with a large achilles heal (nana) and are played in an all or nothing manner. They have super strong offensive choices, awesome combos, and a move thats an instadeath. But once nana is gone, all they can take down reliably is ganondorfs, if that. So remember, even tho marths at 200%, your overly abused blizzard and ice shots still wont kill him.
-Marth has no good seperating moves. So don't worry so much about being seperated. Desynches and nanas lag time on putting up sheild will cause most of your seperation.
-Marth has nothing good against the climbers on the ground. Most, if not all of marths ground moves can be sheild grabbed or sheild dropped to dashgrabbed, even at tipper range. So if marth is playing you on the ground, then he doesn't know the match-up, his only hope is using dancing blade and faking you out with, is he gonna do one hit or two or three or what and even with a little prediction you can sheild grab and punish that.
-Marth has no good options above us. His dair really sucks and unless he is countering, chances are he will be eating some up airs if he is above us.
-If the marth isn't NEO when it comes to spacing, or even if he is, make sure to dash to sheild at his fairs, because if his spacing is off enough, their is a fairly decent chance of landing a shield grab or at the very least scaring him into going for an up-b and then up-airing him for it.
Rajam
Smash Champion
._. OP and 2nd post need to be updated
lucadog
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Messages
- 4
On the topic of Game & Watch: if people are worrying about that turtle, worry no further. We Ice Climbers like to do what? GRAB! Watch this video supplied be the lovely Praxis, and you will be laughing every time that guy whips out his turtle. http://allisbrawl.com/video/video.aspx?id=26985
To summarize, after the fifth hitbox of the turtle, anything can go through it before it hits the ground. What I am suggesting is a shield grab at that moment. This may take some practice (I've never tried it), due to the semi-perfection it requires, and the memorization of which hit to do it on. It should always work as long as you can predict it, which won't be hard as many G&W players use it frequently. I also imagine that a well-timed d-tilt could hit him if he is out of grab range, or maybe even an u-smash. I hope this helps, I haven't seen it mentioned despite its awesome power.
To summarize, after the fifth hitbox of the turtle, anything can go through it before it hits the ground. What I am suggesting is a shield grab at that moment. This may take some practice (I've never tried it), due to the semi-perfection it requires, and the memorization of which hit to do it on. It should always work as long as you can predict it, which won't be hard as many G&W players use it frequently. I also imagine that a well-timed d-tilt could hit him if he is out of grab range, or maybe even an u-smash. I hope this helps, I haven't seen it mentioned despite its awesome power.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
you cant grab turtle when spaced properly
ch33s3
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,756
LOL! Yes, you can.
In-shield SDI makes bair even funnier. :3
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
i mean in between the hits, you can always SDI to a grab... i think?
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Hitboxes come out in quick succession, and our grab is 7 frames, you'd have to wait until the attack is done.
Teh Future
Smash Master
LOL! No, you can't.
No, you can't. Bair should be used as a cross-up or retreating or rising so they can't punish out of DIing out. Yes you can do whatever you want to bair if the do it to the front of your shield, good luck if they know how to use it though.
Good thing IC's destroy GW anyways lol.
Teh Future
Smash Master
matchup is so boring if we dont spam desynced blizzard we get ***** imo
i dont really understand it too well though. just seems like whenever i spam blizzard they do dumb things and i can punish it and if i dont the i run into one move and then die from upsmash at 60%
i dont really understand it too well though. just seems like whenever i spam blizzard they do dumb things and i can punish it and if i dont the i run into one move and then die from upsmash at 60%
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Nope, just MK, then Snake.
After playing Ninj@link's Rob enough, I understand what to do a little more and see it isn't THAT bad.
After playing Ninj@link's Rob enough, I understand what to do a little more and see it isn't THAT bad.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Its not 50-50, Its 60-40. And that is one mu that everyone around here can actually agree on.
Teh Future
Smash Master
^not true at all lol
mk ics even
snake worst matchup by far imo.
everyone disagrees on everything
mk ics even
snake worst matchup by far imo.
everyone disagrees on everything
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
We're going to be discussing the ICs matchup in the Lucario Metagame Discussion IRC tonight at around 8 EST so if you would like to help out then feel free to stop by and if you do plan on showing up then leave a post in the thread so we know how many to expect.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283638
All the information for getting in is in the thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283638
All the information for getting in is in the thread.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Thats because you don't try to camp against them. We outcamp Snake, and since everyone has this dumb mindset that Snake beats Icies easily, we can use that to our advantage.
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
Nobody showed up so we're going to try 10:30, please stop by if you have the time :3
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
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- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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We're still looking for IC mains if people would like to join on in.
