Meta I can sense your aura : The Lucario metagame thread

[Masonomace]

Sup guys, I had a thought in mind in terms of Aura Sphere.

So we know that Dashing > B-Reversing Aura Sphere is a thing to help us get into position for whatever reason to do so, but has anyone messed around with dashing pivoted Aura Sphere? I don't own the game but wouldn't the skid animation carry-over into the ASC? And with the WiiU controls, shield-canceling this into an aerial follow-up from the ASC trap could open them up quite nicely.

 

[hichez50]

Yes, ground b-recoveries work the same way the do in brawl. That combined with faster shield start-up frames and an amazing fox trot make movement pretty comfortable with lucario.
Also you can still shield cancel stuff, but you just have to do the inputs really fast, defiantly easier with a c-stick.

 

[BadKarma]

Quick question, who would you guys think lucarios worst matchups are so far?

 

[hichez50]

To early to say. I don't think to many people have had time to figure out MUs and share ideas yet. The lucario boards doesn't even have a MU discussion thread. Personally little mac and Rosaluma have been giving me trouble, but there are so many characters that people hardly ever touch to know if those are truly the worst MU's.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Sup guys, I had a thought in mind in terms of Aura Sphere.

So we know that Dashing > B-Reversing Aura Sphere is a thing to help us get into position for whatever reason to do so, but has anyone messed around with dashing pivoted Aura Sphere? I don't own the game but wouldn't the skid animation carry-over into the ASC? And with the WiiU controls, shield-canceling this into an aerial follow-up from the ASC trap could open them up quite nicely.

Sheild Cancelling into fair, upsmash, Nair, or DT still works.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

To early to say. I don't think to many people have had time to figure out MUs and share ideas yet. The lucario boards doesn't even have a MU discussion thread. Personally little mac and Rosaluma have been giving me trouble, but there are so many characters that people hardly ever touch to know if those are truly the worst MU's.

We do have one, but it isn't touched much...

Quick question, who would you guys think lucarios worst matchups are so far?

I honestly can't think of a bad matchup that we have I have been pondering it for weeks. We have a lot of answers to every single character.

Rosalina can't swirly absorb our Force Palm, so at mid % and higher we can use that to knock Luma away. What is she going to do then? Dash Attack?

Did you know our UThrow has higher knock back on the punch of it? So in doubles or against Rosalina you can use that to quickly knock Luma off the stage. We can also harass her recovery too.

If you ever fought against good Ice Climbers in Brawl you should know how to fight RosaLuma.

 

[chaos_Leader]

Quick question, who would you guys think lucarios worst matchups are so far?

Here's my experience so far with that:

Captain Falcon is one of them for sure. He easily outmaneuvers Lucario's zoning tools, can use his high-speed mobility punish from well outside Lucario's reach, chain together long, hurtful strings of attacks, and on top of that has the means to easily KO Lucario well before ludicrous-aura kicks in.

Link is another tough one. He throws all sorts of projectiles at us, some of which will eliminate a full-charge high% aura sphere (boomerang/bomb) so we can't simply overmatch the projectile spam like we can vs. Samus and Mega Man, and there's also the Hylian Shield that can make getting an AS/FP past all those projectiles moot anyway. The Master Sword makes closing into melee range a real pain for Lucario since we're not exactly endowed with great mobility/rushdown tools. And to top it all off, Link's KO power is excellent, and the moves he does it with are relatively easy to execute, easy to land, and hard to punish. In the hands of a good, smart player, Link is an absolute nightmare for Lucario to deal with.

I've had some trouble with Wario (that fat little turd). Again, he's one of those heavy, hard-hitting characters, with pretty good aerial mobility, and presents a small target, which makes zoning vs. Wario trickier than larger foes. He's not quite as obnoxious as Captain Falcon or Link, but still a challenge for Lucario.

Rosalina+Luma can be tough in the hands of a good player who keeps the pressure on Lucario, but Lucario comes pretty well equipped to answer Rosaluma, better than most of the cast in-fact. MTI's covered the finer points of that MU better than I could.

 

[Jaxas]

Hey everyone! Just posted this in the social thread, but figured it's hugely relevant.
Also, this isn't Lucario specific, but since I'm a Luc main I figured I'd post here first.

Vectoring is gone as of the v1.04 patch.

DI, akin to Melee and Brawl, appears to be replacing it fully at this point.

More info here, as we discover it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/page-44
(It starts partway down the page)

Anyways, the important thing now is what new followups do we have now that people can't (say) hold up to escape the Uthrow->Uair and the like?
(Not saying I've tested that, just giving an example)

 

[RT]

Yeah, some strings and combos will need to be revisited because of this. Same goes for SDI, but it's not as important since Lucario has so few multi-hit moves.

 

[tm730]

Good Fox players give Lucario trouble

they can dance around his slower attacks with their speed

They reflect the Aura Sphere

if they arent dumb enough to get hit with a back air and whine on Twitter about it, it's a challenge

 

[Nysyr]

Fastfallers should be really afraid of utilt juggles now.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

For those of you who do not know, after this patch Lucario's recovery on stage was nerfed. In order of Easing/Colliding/Freefalling animations they are lowest recovery to highest. FreeFalling is bad enough someone can run up and falconpunch you.
You probably all knew that.

What you guys probably didn't know was that if you actually use your hitbox/connect with someone your recovery animation is different, if not untouched if you ease into the ground after the hit. If you do a small slide you did it right.
If you go too high after the attack you'll roll into a ball and die. Though if you smash someone at any percent you should be using this move you're most likely sending them offstage.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Is it me or did DSmash not always send people at such a low angle? Kinda a semi-spike depending on DI/Vertical VI.

Which will obviously wreck Little Mac, Ike, and Ganondorf if we DSmash them at mid %s or higher if they have bad DI.

 

[Rysir]

Is it me or did DSmash not always send people at such a low angle? Kinda a semi-spike depending on DI/Vertical VI.

Which will obviously wreck Little Mac, Ike, and Ganondorf if we DSmash them at mid %s or higher if they have bad DI.

How low is it sending? It's seemed to always be able to hit someone low at the right angle, I got a video from before 1.0.4
if you want to compare height.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

How low is it sending? It's seemed to always be able to hit someone low at the right angle, I got a video from before 1.0.4
if you want to compare height.

Hmmm what % was that Little Mac when you DSmashed him (and what % were you)? It felt a little lower for me post patch, but it could just be a placebo effect.

 

[Rysir]

Hmmm what % was that Little Mac when you DSmashed him (and what % were you)? It felt a little lower for me, but it could just be a placebo effect.

I was around 65% and he was at about 70-78%, Im not completely sure but I do know neither of us were above 90% by the time I down smashed.

Edit: Yeah! I was at a pretty low % as even after taking another Fsmash from him I was still not under rage and after hitting him with down smash he did not have rage and I now remember that he was at 97% when he hit the blast zone.

 

[Snailtopus]

If you fully charge aura sphere at 0%, and then take damage, does the aura sphere grow automatically or does it remain at its 0% size?

 

[|RK|]

If you fully charge aura sphere at 0%, and then take damage, does the aura sphere grow automatically or does it remain at its 0% size?

It automatically grows.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

It sucks there aren't enough Lucario's in Tri-State to make it on stream. I think I'm the only Lucario who actively enters.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

It sucks there aren't enough Lucario's in Tri-State to make it on stream. I think I'm the only Lucario who actively enters.

Be careful what you wish for. If Lucario is officially top tier you're going to see a lot of Lucario dittos... It would be an epic troll on Sakurai's part.

 

[|RK|]

Be careful what you wish for. If Lucario is officially top tier you're going to see a lot of Lucario dittos... It would be an epic troll on Sakurai's part.

Seriously, it's weird. For as much as people think Lucario's high/top tier, he's definitely not used as often as characters that people consider to be high/top tier.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y5nLRUQ4sw

@ Steam showed this to me.

So that got me thinking. Our 15 frame OOS USmash isn't too bad. We probably could punish a lot of stuff like Dash Attacks if we time it right. It'll pretty much kill at higher %s, since it is our strongest move (same stock, fresh, both hits max aura full charge 42%).

If you are super pro you could punish a lot more with Shield DI/SDI towards the opponent too...

What do you guys think?

 

[Steam]

we just need to powershield everything like amiibos >.>

besides, anything upsmash can kill, sideB can likely kill too. Either that or Uthrow -> uair. we're a very grabby character.

 

[CaliburChamp]

It feels like Fox might be our worst matchup. He runs circles around lucario and can kill Lucario early with his strong up air juggles, and his quick but strong up smashes, also his reflector is annoying, it makes spamming aura sphere dangerous. Also, fox dash attack to uptilt combos seems so good. Brawl Lucario seems to combo much better than this Lucario. It has made my Lucario play more defensively than offensively. Seems like every time I go on the offensive I get out prioritized, out ranged, and fail to combo properly. How does one go out on offense? I usually like to be very offensive with lucario til around 80% then I just try to be more defensive as best as I can.

 

[Croi]

So after playing a whole lot of Dojo ladder and getting my **** pushed in again and again and again, I'm not totally convinced Lucario is actually that good a character anymore.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

So after playing a whole lot of Dojo ladder and getting my **** pushed in again and again and again, I'm not totally convinced Lucario is actually that good a character anymore.

You gotta play a lot of footsies against people who play a lot of WiFi on the AiB/Dojo ladder.

Just glancing through some of those people have played on the ladder since the beginning of Brawl, lol.

 

[Steam]

Smash4 Lucario is ultra gimped on wifi in this game. he's also overrated by most.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Lucario on wifi= "Good luck recovering with high aura", said Sakurai as he laughed.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

Been experimenting with Bair looks like the whole thing is always a sweet spot and if you fast fall it, it will cover the entire area behind you great for killing

 

[Pentao]

Smash4 Lucario is ultra gimped on wifi in this game. he's also overrated by most.

Agreed with the wi-fi comment. I can't follow up after an up throw online for the life of me.

Been experimenting with Bair looks like the whole thing is always a sweet spot and if you fast fall it, it will cover the entire area behind you great for killing

I recently did this actually. Fast fall back air is a pretty solid way to land it, though we're still dedicating a hard read to landing it so... eh. Spacing this is hard for me, I dunno.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Is it me or can we grab some characters after they ground break release us?

According to someone in the grab combos thread all characters at best have a 0 frame advantage on a pummel release.

 

[RT]

Lucario's grab range is deceptive in general. Sometimes opponents just warp into his hands a la Melee Marth grab.

Amusing considering it was booty in Brawl.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Lucario's grab range is deceptive in general. Sometimes opponents just warp into his hands a la Melee Marth grab.

Amusing considering it was booty in Brawl.

Pretty much what I've noticed with Smash 4 Lucario's grab range. Perhaps can actually grab an opponent's aura?

 

[Browny]

I cant be bothered practicing this game because I still stomp almost everyone in my state except like, 3 people who actually played brawl a lot and know how to play defensively.

One thing I want to know though.

How can we abuse the ledge mechanic. I heard that sheik can get a free bair by stealing the ledge from someone hanging on it. If we like, drop below the stage and upb into it as soon as the opponent does to knock them off, can we actually hit them or is bair too slow? Even as a surprise factor like, how quick are people going to react to getting knocked off, you might be able to connect with it simply because they dont expect it to happen.

 

[RT]

Ledge trumping is pretty amazing for a few characters (Sheik and Robin are the big ones).

Lucario's Bair seems too slow for this to work, at least when I try. I might be timing it incorrectly. Maybe nair works, but it might not be as useful overall.

 

[Pitbuller26]

I've been thinking about Lucario's ledge trump options and I can't think of any. His bair is too slow, nair is too short, the other moves won't hit. But then again, I haven't tried anything yet.

 

[RT]

I guess fair and uair could work in theory...

I really wish Force Palm could grab in midair sometimes. It's sad that it's one of the few, if not only, command grab that does not work in the air.

 

[Croi]

Footstool, maybe?

 

[Jay-kun]

You can bait a double team.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

If we had hitstun frame data on DAir first hit... If it is at least 20 or so at medium to high percents...we might be able to do DAir to footstool gimps. That would be brutal against Falco, Diddy, Mario, etc.