Meta I can sense your aura : The Lucario metagame thread

Loota

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#41
I'm not too familiar with l33t speak. Did you mean will it hit people hanging on the ledge at high percentages? If so then no, I tried 100%, 150%, 200%, and 250%, never hit anyone hanging from a ledge.
I might've been a bit unclear with my original message, let me rephrase.

If you're charging aura sphere close to the edge so that your back is facing the edge, does a properly spaced charge hit the opponent as they either get up, attack or jump from the edge, and trap them? Characters have varying qualities especially to their edge attacks and jumps so this would be best to test with multiple different characters.
 
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#42
Has anyone figured out anything that is super useful that we can do with pivot canceling?

I know we can do a pseudo boost smash, but I haven't really found anything else to do with it that is super useful.
 

ORVO5

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#43
I might've been a bit unclear with my original message, let me rephrase.

If you're charging aura sphere close to the edge so that your back is facing the edge, does a properly spaced charge hit the opponent as they either get up, attack or jump from the edge, and trap them? Characters have varying qualities especially to their edge attacks and jumps so this would be best to test with multiple different characters.
Ah, gotcha. I need to test it out with an actual person but I've tested with a lvl 9 ZSS and it does prevent her from getting back on the edge 90% of the time even with the whip edge grab, but in one instance she was able to pass through it, but in all other instances she either got stuck or when tried to get up she was blocked and fell. This was at 100% damage. I imagine it would be hard for characters without longe-range edge grabs to get back up, unless they somehow counter it or have a side/down air/special that would hit you, but we'll see when I have my friend over.

I'd like to hear what others experiences with this would be, this seem like it could be potentially deadly. Thanks for bringing this up @ Loota Loota ! I'm gonna start using it in For Glory.
 
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Masonomace

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#44
Has anyone tested if Dtilt on slants affects it's hit-box area like it did for many characters in Brawl?

This also intrigues me if DA whether using the starting hit, or the late hit, could still hit ledge-hangers & stage spike them like I used to test as well. I'm thinking the DA stage spike is 90% unlikely beecause of the attack's entire change of the knockback direction, so I won't believe it's true unless proven otherwise.
 
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RT

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#46
Has anyone tested if Dtilt on slants affects it's hit-box area like it did for many characters in Brawl?

This also intrigues me if DA whether using the starting hit, or the late hit, could still hit ledge-hangers & stage spike them like I used to test as well. I'm thinking the DA stage spike is 90% unlikely beecause of the attack's entire change of the knockback direction, so I won't believe it's true unless proven otherwise.
Dtilt does have "weird" properties on slopes, like Yoshi's stage edges. I didn't mess around anymore than just in matches, so yeah.

Slopes are weird in general. I had a fully charged AS travel along the entire slanted platform of Yoshi's. I kind of wish I had saved the replay, it looked stupid and funny at the same time.
 
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Masonomace

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#47
Dtilt does have "weird" properties on slopes, like Yoshi's stage edges. I didn't mess around anymore than just in matches, so yeah.

Slopes are weird in general. I had a fully charged AS travel along the entire slanted platform of Yoshi's. I kind of wish I had saved the replay, it looked stupid and funny at the same time.
I watched a match on CT's channel of ROB & his laser on Yoshi's Island. . .Man that Laser is so glitchy it was hitting the character, inside the stage, bounced backward, & bounced off the slope going off into it's own tangent direction off-screen. I'll never understand slopes.:facepalm:

By all this juicy info about slopes however, that gives me belief DA could still stage spike given the character having fat fingers overlapping the stage ledge hanging.

For anyone who does test the Dash Attack on ledge-hangers, I compiled a list of characters it was guaranteed to hit from my Brawl data:
Recap: Dash Attack has 2 different hits that vary depending on which one connects first, the starting hit or the late hit. With enough % on a ledge-holding, ledge-dropping, or ledge-hopping character, we can Stage-Spike them. We don't stage-spike or stage-bounce characters who are ledge-jumping.

I'm figuring out that choosing stages with long vertical walls helps out Dash Attack sets up a Stage-Bounce, launching them against the wall & bouncing forward in front instead. We can Stage-Bounce at maximum 21 characters, & the characters can be Characters that can be stage-bounced are: (NOTE THIS IS FOR YI [ brawl ] ONLY)
  • Mario
  • Luigi
  • Bowser
  • DK
  • Yoshi
  • Wario
  • ROB
  • Kirby
  • MK
  • DDD
  • Olimar
  • Falco
  • Pikachu
  • Charizard
  • Jigglypuff
  • Ness
  • Mr. G&W
The 8 in bold we're the only 8 in Brawl that Lucario's Dash Attack could stage-spike on regular neutral stages with lips, like FD & BF. Though all of the other characters on the list such as Mario Luigi & Bowser, were affected by stages with walls & slopes like Yoshi's Island.
 
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Loota

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#49
If you're charging aura sphere close to the edge so that your back is facing the edge, does a properly spaced charge hit the opponent as they either get up, attack or jump from the edge, and trap them? Characters have varying qualities especially to their edge attacks and jumps so this would be best to test with multiple different characters.
I've now played with this a lot recently and I'm telling you this is going to be HUGE. Your opponent is put to an extremely bad situation in which he is basically forced to drop down and try some desperate way to hop to the stage over Lucario or try to hit him through the charge which I doubt a lot characters can even do. Even if someone can, that's the thing we're fully prepared for. And if he fails to do this, he's forced to grab the ledge again and we happen to have a fully charged AS to fire at them for free since they don't regain their invincibility without getting hit by it.

The only thing that doesn't make this strat absolutely insane is that we don't have a followup from AS charge that hits opponents quickly and low enough, and if the opponent manages to get us cancel the charge, we can't do it again right away giving them a window to escape. Shield -> JC upsmash is a beast though and dair cancelled charge might be fast enough for a ftilt or something if the dair itself doesn't hit.
 

ORVO5

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#50
I've now played with this a lot recently and I'm telling you this is going to be HUGE. Your opponent is put to an extremely bad situation in which he is basically forced to drop down and try some desperate way to hop to the stage over Lucario or try to hit him through the charge which I doubt a lot characters can even do. Even if someone can, that's the thing we're fully prepared for. And if he fails to do this, he's forced to grab the ledge again and we happen to have a fully charged AS to fire at them for free since they don't regain their invincibility without getting hit by it.
It's definitely a welcomed and useful strategy in my opinion. I've been practicing with it as well and witnessed a lot of players just hanging there trying to figure out how to do get back on the stage. I have videos of them actually, having used it on For Glory mode. I'll see if I can upload some good videos. I haven't mastered it in a sense that I can't attack properly out of AS if they get back on the platform (say they jump off and teleport), which would be an easy AS launch but I guess I have to figure out the momentum depending on the character I'm fighting aka I need more practice with this strategy - but it's definitely an effective one. Since Lucario is pretty effective off stage (especially in stages where we can wall cling) this strategy is really helpful.

Some other stuff I've been doing, I'm sure to the more experienced players some of this is just common sense but I'll list them anyway:

- U-Tilt muiltiple times until they get high enough OR DA to your heart's content > (U-Tilt if they don't get launched in the air >) U-Air > Jump + U-Air and depending on the height either drop down and do another U-Air > Jump + U-Air or if they're above the stage follow it up with ES (assuming you can get ES to hit of course.)

- Low powered AS followed by a Dash or ES depending on the distance. Opponents with fast DAs or any attacks that speeds up someones forward momentum to attack like Capt. Falcon are easier to deal with if you use a low powered AS to cancel their momentum leaving them open for attack, like a Tap A > DA which can be strung into a more complex combo. D-Tilt is also good for the same concept when trying to get in with Tap A and someone's dashing or keeps shielding on and off in front of you (but I guess you can just grab them as well, pummel and F-Throw > DA > etc.)

- Wall Cling > ES is something people might not see coming despite the lag, even better if you're good at making that "curve" and know how to play mind games with the wall clinging. Getting a hit with ES also leaves the opponent open for a DA + combo or a fully charged AS.

- When chasing someone in the air and your F-Air sends them going backwards add in B-Air and if that doesn't do the job or misses, wait for them to land because odds are they'll roll right underneath you right after landing and you can add in a D-Air. It would look like a diamond pattern <> if done right.

- And of course DA > Jump + Fully charged AS is good for the higher percentages.

Again some of these may be redundant but these are some of the things I've been doing repeatedly so far in successful matches. I've yet to observe many combos with smashes because of their lag which are harder to time but I'll get back to those later..
 
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#HBC | Red Ryu

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#51
I have trouble just linking stuff together that isn't me just reading people right, Ultilt>almost anything, Dthrow/UThrow to Uair. That's about it atm, he still works for footies and hit and move but I kinda miss the links he did in Brawl.
 
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#52
I have trouble just linking stuff together that isn't me just reading people right, Ultilt>almost anything, Dthrow/UThrow to Uair. That's about it atm, he still works for footies and hit and move but I kinda miss the links he did in Brawl.
I feel like Lucario's footsie game has been severely crippled. The range nerf and the lack of lingering hitboxes on his normals just makes playing a spacing game near impossible without getting punished. Don't get me started on his dair. Yes, a move where we literally have to be on top of someone for it to hit.

Can someone test Lucario's priority. There have been too many instances where his smashes clanks with jabs of other characters.
 
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#53
I have trouble just linking stuff together that isn't me just reading people right, Ultilt>almost anything, Dthrow/UThrow to Uair. That's about it atm, he still works for footies and hit and move but I kinda miss the links he did in Brawl.
Aura Sphere charge strings. :3 We might be able to do some backwards FAir shinanegans when Smash gets released for the Wii U.

Seriously, some characters cannot do anything about Aura Sphere charge lol.

NAir comes out fairly quick too and may be used to interrupt opponent's strings if spaced improperly.

Lucario is like impossible to gimp in this game unless if he's at super low %s. There are some characters that will die if we footstool them offstage. So...

If we grab release pummel someone at the edge of the stage well... They are in a horrible position. I think it would be in our best interest to practice offstage footstool shinanegans. Don't forget if you wall cling and jump it does not eat your second jump.

I know we are all kinda probably nervous going offstage from the transition from Brawl, but Smash 4!Lucario sure is different...
 
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ORVO5

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#54
I never played him in Brawl (or just Brawl all that much because the floatiness annoyed me) but I have no problem chasing opponents off stage on For Glory. The wall clings are an advantage for sure..
 

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#55
I feel like Lucario's footsie game has been severely crippled. The range nerf and the lack of lingering hitboxes on his normals just makes playing a spacing game near impossible without getting punished. Don't get me started on his dair. Yes, a move where we literally have to be on top of someone for it to hit.

Can someone test Lucario's priority. There have been too many instances where his smashes clanks with jabs of other characters.
I have to agree with this...
I've been trying to play Lucario as a defensive/neutrals character, and I was getting absolutely nowhere with it; jabs were outranging and outprioritizing my moves, a ton of attacks were just plain faster, etc. His every-so-amazing grab range wasn't helping either.

I've actually found that I do a lot better playing rushdown aggro (until high percents, then I focus on survival and punishing as safely and hard as possible, generally with AS when an opponent lands) above all else.
This strikes me as absolutely wrong the whole time I'm playing him, and I'm not sure if it's just because I'm mostly a relatively defensive Brawl guy or if it's because rushdown aggro doesn't actually work and the people around here just can't deal with it.

What are your thoughts; how should Lucario be played?
 

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#56
What are your thoughts; how should Lucario be played?
As Brawl was naturally a defensive-orientated game, I do expect Smash 4 Lucario to be more aggressive thus having better success not playing defensive unless using ASC for camping / forcing approaches.
 
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RT

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#57
Can someone test Lucario's priority. There have been too many instances where his smashes clanks with jabs of other characters.
It only seems crappy because everything can clank now. I cringe when what you described happens. Looks ugly.
 
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#59
High Aura Lucario is a character people do NOT want to approach easily. You can use this to your advantage by throwing out quick tilts and aura spheres. Usually by the time they want to use Rage or a kill move, they're going all in and you can simply kill with a tilt.
 

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#62
I posted this in the Q&A theard, but thought it would be better to discuss it here. I have some pretty useful information!

When lucario crashes in to a wall at anything above a complete horizontal angle he will get upward momentum. In many cases enough to grab the edge. This means if you don't have invincibility a well timed up-B crash could be the difference between life and death. I imagine this will be more useful in the wiiu version when we have more control of Up-B

Also Dair>dtilt is a true combo if you use dair close enough to the ground and right next to most characters. It seems pretty situational I kept accidental doing it when people would let go of their shields, but after some formal testing it seems to work on most of the cast.
 

Loota

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#63
I found out today that if we backthrow ZSS or Sheik towards the stage on the very edge on Battlefield, it'll actually stagespike them in a diagonal angle downwards making recovery really hard or straight up impossible if you grabbed them from mid air. Haven't tested if it's techable but I doubt it would be a dealbreaker as it's already exclusive (?) to Battlefield and hard to react to.

I also tested it on Rosalina and Greninja but, sadly, it didn't work. I'll do more tests later.
 
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#64
I found out today that if we backthrow ZSS or Sheik towards the stage on the very edge on Battlefield, it'll actually stagespike them in a diagonal angle downwards making recovery really hard or straight up impossible if you grabbed them from mid air. Haven't tested if it's techable but I doubt it would be a dealbreaker as it's already exclusive (?) to Battlefield and hard to react to.

I also tested it on Rosalina and Greninja but, sadly, it didn't work. I'll do more tests later.
Holy... I wonder if it works on other stages... Nice find!

Pivot tilts and Smashses are something we should also practice. Yoshi and Sonic will be a bit obnoxious otherwise.

EDIT: I JUST TESTED IT ON LITTLE MAC AND IT WORKS ON HIM TOO!
 
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Space thing

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#65
I got this to work on Falco as well. ZSS, Sheik, Little Mac and Falco are all around the same wight according to this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/

Interestingly, I couldn't get it to work on Zelda who has the same wight as sheik, so wight probably isn't the only factor if a factor at all. Or I might have just failed to do it right on Zelda. I didn't really test it extensively. I also found this to be most reliable when the character is at around 60%, but I don't know if that really has a connection or not. I also didn't get this to work on Omega Battlefield in case anyone was wondering about that.
 

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#66
I love the purple/pink gay pride color lucario got and all his buffs make him a force to me delt with. Nothing like having aura and being on the same stock as the enemy

Anything new and cool about side b?
 
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#67
I got this to work on Falco as well. ZSS, Sheik, Little Mac and Falco are all around the same wight according to this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/

Interestingly, I couldn't get it to work on Zelda who has the same wight as sheik, so wight probably isn't the only factor if a factor at all. Or I might have just failed to do it right on Zelda. I didn't really test it extensively. I also found this to be most reliable when the character is at around 60%, but I don't know if that really has a connection or not. I also didn't get this to work on Omega Battlefield in case anyone was wondering about that.
Hmm don't have my 3DS on me ATM, but has anyone tested if there's any way to DThrow stage spike?

I bet it is how the characters kinda hang there when grabbed or fall speed if it doesn't work on all characters in a weight range.
I love the purple/pink gay pride color lucario got and all his buffs make him a force to me delt with. Nothing like having aura and being on the same stock as the enemy

Anything new and cool about side b?
I call Purplecario Twilight Sparkcario.

Side B is really good at punishing and the range on the Aura flame is insane at high percent. Lucario's Custom Side Bs are also really good if you need more approaching options or range. Probably mixes well with Lucario's other Customs, but I'm probably going to stay with vanilla Lucario.
 

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#68
I was messing around with the Advancing Force Palm, and there are some amusing things you can do with it.

Still, it really is a sidegrade for certain matchups.
 

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#74
In my region custom moves are legal and I'v been finding that his second force palm works pretty good, esp when people roll away.
Customs seem to be legal most places, at least from what I've seen; They certainly are around here though.

As for his customs, I'm still often unable to decide which I like the best between his Aura Spheres and Force Palms.
Standard AS is just so good for punishing landings, which is huge. Snaring AS is really slow, but otherwise it's amazing. Piercing AS is... good for doubles and Little Mac (horizontal knockback).
As for Force Palm, I really like the Long Range Force Palm but the grab - while having Brawl's grab range or slightly larger - is really slow. Dash SideB would be amazing IMO if it was still a solid kill move, but it seems much weaker. I've been meaning to test this a bit more though, which I'll probably do tomorrow.

I personally think it's not even a question of the best specials for Up and Down B, though.

What are everyone else's thoughts, though? I'd like a second opinion on this, as customs are looking very likely to be legal.
 

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#75
Snaring aura sphere is my favorite of the 3 *the fact it slaughters smash run is just ace* since it makes ledges completely unsafe or even straight up death.

I like advancing force palm since it becomes a great kill move at high % but I prefer standard or long range since I use it as an anti edgeguard since it eats all projectiles and breaks super armor which lets me get to the stage safely.

Still gotta fiddle with the counters but thinking I'll be sticking with standard. Same goes for extreme speed variants.
 

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#76
Customs seem to be legal most places, at least from what I've seen; They certainly are around here though.

As for his customs, I'm still often unable to decide which I like the best between his Aura Spheres and Force Palms.
Standard AS is just so good for punishing landings, which is huge. Snaring AS is really slow, but otherwise it's amazing. Piercing AS is... good for doubles and Little Mac (horizontal knockback).
As for Force Palm, I really like the Long Range Force Palm but the grab - while having Brawl's grab range or slightly larger - is really slow. Dash SideB would be amazing IMO if it was still a solid kill move, but it seems much weaker. I've been meaning to test this a bit more though, which I'll probably do tomorrow.

I personally think it's not even a question of the best specials for Up and Down B, though.

What are everyone else's thoughts, though? I'd like a second opinion on this, as customs are looking very likely to be legal.
I feel someone may wanna make a In-depth analysis for a Thread about Lucario's Custom Specials (I could do it), but despite not playing with all of them enough to fully grasp them to a certain high potential:
  1. SAS - This Neutral Special really helped out my ground-game pressuring them opponent while they're landing. The moment I get where I want to be & camp with zoning them out from just ASC, they put up shield, sitting in it for a good moment & proceed to either walk inching forward, or they immediately jump. Times when they're recovering from off-stage & are about to grab the ledge, I fire the SAS Fullcharged & approach closer to the end of the stage spaced enough to read any get-up option. This doesn't snipe or edge-guard hard like the other AS moves, but this surely establishes grounded stage dominance

  2. PAS - I didn't do much practice with this, but I could tell this move does great for poking off-stage when characters are using their telegraphed recovery as I put on extra damage. This projectile can be used from a mid-range, but Ifeel it's more campy & it didn't seem to do much shield damage, so I have decent feelings about this one
  1. AFP - Didn't have this Custom

  2. L-DFP (dumb abbreviation, lame full name. . owell) - Didn't practice much with this, so all I can say about it is I enjoyed the spacing edge-guarding I was doing when SH'ing off-stage in attempt to gimp with the move if I had fairly good amount of Aura. I don't remember the grab portion, but I was mainly using this to zone the ledge when they recovered & grabbed the ledge. After my AS edge-guarding phase ended, I went with using the bursting aura portion of the FP. (Can we as Lucario mains come up with a abbreviation for this? Long-Distance Force Palm is kinda bland & lame.)
  1. Ride the Wind - Didn't test this at all, but heard many good things about this Custom, including it's ability to almost fully scrooge under FD. I have no thoughts on this, other than it's a lot more precise to control despite losing the damage.

  2. Extreme Speed Attack aka ESA. . . - Didn't unlock this at the time, so nothing to say about it. Apparently it's stronger than Lucario's default ES, but it's shorter IIRC? The wiki about it says the start-up is longer, which kind of turns me off but I can't give my say to it
  1. Glancing Counter - I kind of like this Custom. I didn't try it out to the fullest extent, but I do remember trying out Footstool setups & this was successful the alst time I attempted it. I'm not exactly sure it's guaranteed that the opponent can shield the hit or not, so I don't have a clear thought on this. Personally I'd rather use Lucario's default DT over both DT's Customs

  2. SDT - I. . .kinda don't like it. I mean yeah when activated it shocks them with enough hit-stun that you can follow-up with a grab, jabs, maybe a tllt, FP grab, maybe even footstool if you're a bit above them airborne while your SDT is shocking them, but other than that I don't really have the care to commit to using this over Lucario's default DT
So that's my thought on all of them.

TL;DR I don't care for Lucario's Up-B Customs, or his Down-B Customs. Default DT & default ES are the way to go for me. However I do like his Neutral-B & Side-B Customs

EDIT: AFAIK, the Down-B Customs don't have a Reversing option like the default DT does, & frankly RDT is freakin amazing in this game.
 
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Loota

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#77
I don't even know what's the deal with Long Range FP, does it extend your grab range or something? Anyways, I prefer the normal one here as the other ones don't really feel to give anything too special in exchange of losing frame 1 landing FP and the speed.

It's the same for upB's for me, I really don't see me using any other than the regular one. The attacking one is really short and Ride The Wind just screams "gimp me please".

I have to admit that I know next to nothing about our counters, I guess it all depends on the Stunning's range and followups which I don't know of. Glancing does seem to have it's uses but the reward isn't really there as it doesn't seem to kill or even have that much range.

As the other specials seem lacking, Aura Sphere seems to have got all the attention as all of the variations are really good.
- We all know how good the regular one is, it haven't got any real drawbacks compared to the others. Not as spammable as Piercing is but it gets the job done. It's the only one that can kill on stage when shot from afar not taking ridiculous percents into account. The most efficient as a long range trap.
- Piercing will definitely prove to be useful vs. Rosalina and probably a lot of other characters as well when we want more ground control. While it lacks the power of normal AS it somewhat makes up for it by sending opponents more horizontally and setting up for gimps more easily. It doesn't have as big charge hitbox as the others do which is definitely a factor now even if it's still usable. This seems to be the optimal choice for doubles too as Jaxas mentioned. Accidentally hitting your teammate isn't a totally lost cause anymore, you can control the whole stage without giving any safe space behind the "frontline" opponent and and you can potentially hit both of them.
- Snaring AS feels even somewhat unfair while it potentially covers everything your opponent could possibly do, it's incredibly scary to face one using this. Obviously, it loses a lot of uses that the other variations have as it's not so "projectile-y" anymore but allows for more clever control of the stage even if it's not really spammable. I'd imagine it really shines on platform stages as it covers both the platform and the ground beneath it when shot propely, giving the opponent hard time to navigate at all. Even shielding is really risky. But the biggest thing going on with this is definitely edgeguarding. As Rysir said, I feel like it usually means death to your opponent as the covering is ridiculously good. It's also nice that you can get hit by it multiple times racking up damage extremely fast. I think I did 52% to an opponent with a single shot when I was at really high aura, think about that for a while.
 
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Masonomace

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#78
I don't even know what's the deal with Long Range FP, does it extend your grab range or something?
The burst of Aura from the FP reaches ridiculous distance the higher your current % is. That flame portion is some serious range.

EDIT: Also I think the stronger portion hit-box of the Aura burst is stronger than the grab itself? Not sure on that, just seemed that way when I was doing small mess-around testing with it.
 
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Loota

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#79
The burst of Aura from the FP reaches ridiculous distance the higher your current % is. That flame portion is some serious range.
It didn't really feel like it. The normal FP covers about 45% of the length of BF but the extended was just a bit longer reaching for something between 50-55% unless I'm just screwing something up...? I didn't pay any attention to the damage though.
 

Karnu

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#80
Customs seem to be legal most places, at least from what I've seen; They certainly are around here though.

As for his customs, I'm still often unable to decide which I like the best between his Aura Spheres and Force Palms.
Standard AS is just so good for punishing landings, which is huge. Snaring AS is really slow, but otherwise it's amazing. Piercing AS is... good for doubles and Little Mac (horizontal knockback).
As for Force Palm, I really like the Long Range Force Palm but the grab - while having Brawl's grab range or slightly larger - is really slow. Dash SideB would be amazing IMO if it was still a solid kill move, but it seems much weaker. I've been meaning to test this a bit more though, which I'll probably do tomorrow.

I personally think it's not even a question of the best specials for Up and Down B, though.

What are everyone else's thoughts, though? I'd like a second opinion on this, as customs are looking very likely to be legal.

IMO as of now I think this is Lucario's best
Neutral B 1
Side B 2 ( All FP is good imo)
Up B 1
Down B 1

as said before I like the side B 2 more because it can punish people that roll away (well, I'v punished roll away with it) and I prefer to actually get the grab with FP rather then hit with the blast.

I don't mind the other AS, I prefer AS 1 but you basically said said my opinion on them :)

Down B is tough for me, I don't like them all
I'm going with the Down B 1 as the best because I notice some people can still shield it but It has boosted and you slide away far so I think it would work as a decent escape tactic and if it hits then yay for double team~

His Up is err, ok.
I'm just going to say Up B 1 is the best as its got the distance and hitbox at the end.
Up B 2 is ok but I prefer the hit box
I don't like Up B 3 very much
 
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