Meta I can sense your aura : The Lucario metagame thread

Triburos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
26
Anyone know if there's any uses for dropping off a ledge into a jump B-Reversed ASC back onto the stage? I can't tell if it's safe or not, even with high aura and nearly max charged sphere.

It's just something I've been ****ing with in an attempt to find another ASC set-up.

Also, is trying to set up for an ASC after say... Uthrow > Nair at early percents worth risking?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Did some calcs thanks to Eeveecario Eeveecario 's hitstun calculator...

At 0% same stock...
Mario needs to be at 126% for ASC to do 20 frames of hitstun from a 0% Lucario.
Prepatch Mario would have to be at 110% for there to be 20 frames of hitstun if Luc was at 0%.

If both Mario and Lucario are at 70%...
One tick of ASC does 16 frames of hitstun. Which would still be a situational JCU combo.
Prepatch... if both characters were at 70% ASC would do 17 frames of hitstun.

Prepatch Mario would have to be at 44% for 15 frames of hitstun, a perfect JCU.
Now Mario has to be at 54% for that to happen.

I'd advise going for JCUs probably when the opponent is at least 10-15% higher than what we've been doing prepatch. FF BAir should be a decent option if you're worried the person will fall out behind you especially with a faster fall & air speed.
 

PlayNuff

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12
Location
France, Alsace
3DS FC
5215-0749-8924
NNID
TempeteForte
I found a kill setup for Lucario into Fair -> Fully charged AuraSphere, don't think it as been discovered yet :
Note : The DK is at 80% and I am at 100%
The combo indicator in training mode say that is true but I think it need more testing. (Sorry if I do some fault, I'm french)
 
Last edited:

RMF

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
72
Location
Nova Lima, Minas Gerais, Brazil
3DS FC
4897-7020-4287
NNID
rafamariofanx
I found a kill setup for Lucario into Fair -> Fully charged AuraSphere, don't think it as been discovered yet :
Note : The DK is at 80% and I am at 100%
The combo indicator in training mode say that is true but I think it need more testing. (Sorry if I do some fault, I'm french)
I just tested it with DI this time, if he DI down he won't get hit by the AS. (at least with DK at 80% and Luc at 100%).
And at this percentage i think it'ss safer only FP instead of trying this combo

But anyway, thanks for sharing!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Down Throw is pretty bad for combos actually. I think its only really good for doubles if your partner footstooled the person you just Down Threw. UThrow does more anyway and is better at comboing.

Back Throw to Dash Attack or Jab (sometimes depending on DI) is pretty okay at low %.

UThrow either leads to UAir/FAir/NAir depending on DI and %.

At mid-high % FAir->Double Jump->fully charged Aura Sphere can combo and can kill.

UTilt can string to itself or something like Force Palm at really low %.
I found a kill setup for Lucario into Fair -> Fully charged AuraSphere, don't think it as been discovered yet :
Note : The DK is at 80% and I am at 100%
The combo indicator in training mode say that is true but I think it need more testing. (Sorry if I do some fault, I'm french)
My apologies, but it was already discovered. We appreciate the contribution though.

I have been running a bit through Eeveecario's hitstun calculator and I have to test it, but there are a few more combos I may of discovered...
 
Last edited:

Lomogoto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
108
I noticed messing around in training that one can wave bounce quite easily by holding forward (running or in the air) then pressing B and the c-stick backward at the same time
FYI i have special set to a trigger and my c-stick set to attack. It also works with a+b smash on or off.
This oddly wave bounces aura sphere and I have no idea what is really going on but it works all the same, and kind of cool how easy it is to do out of a run.
With the minor speed buffs that make it easier to run past people this lets you slide back on them with the charging sphere nicely.
Seems kind of like B sticking maybe but with less controller configuration to get used to (at least of me as I have had special on a trigger for a while now).
If anyone knows whats going on here that would be cool.
It does not seem to be lucario specific if anyone cares.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
I've been thinking... We can probably go for more gimps.

FAir can true combo into Aura Sphere or even Force Palm at certain %. I cannot remember the exact numbers though.

If you hit someone with FAir while offstage their reflexive action might be to vector towards you or die. We should be able to easily take advantage of that and we have a top tier recovery.

Another option I'd like to talk about is DAir stage spike or trump. Do we really do this enough where even if we mistime DAir we could land a trump?

Some characters with big recovery hitboxes or tethers would make it harder to stage spike, but I feel we have a lot more options we do not utilize.

It would be hilarious if we could shield DI off the ledge to trump a Marth or something.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,020
Location
Monrovia, California
Lucario doesn't have an offstage edge guarding game in Smash 4.

Fair is too short and not active enough to warrant losing stage control for the possibility of maybe hitting with it. And even then, to land fair offstage we would have to use a jump which makes no follow up possible and then have to UpB back to the ledge/stage.

Seriously, try to edgeguard offstage with Lucario then try it with Marth/Sheik/Mario etc. Our moves are horrendously bad at edgeguarding.
 

Lomogoto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
108
I personally love dair for edge guarding/gimping
Lucarios off stage game is pretty great even with the lack of range
 

nannerham

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
104
Location
in your kitchen
NNID
nannerham
Theres a small DI trap I've been trying with ASC, since they try to SDI away from ASC, reverse fair-> bair works on a good number of characters and the characters that it doesn't work on you can ASC bair anyway. The nice thing is its a true combo and it starts working before ASC JCU starts killing.
 

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
4,615
Location
Independence, MO
NNID
Masonomace
Theres a small DI trap I've been trying with ASC, since they try to SDI away from ASC, reverse fair-> bair works on a good number of characters and the characters that it doesn't work on you can ASC bair anyway. The nice thing is its a true combo and it starts working before ASC JCU starts killing.
The retreating reverse Fair reminds me so much of Brawl Lucario. Feels good.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Lucario doesn't have an offstage edge guarding game in Smash 4.

Fair is too short and not active enough to warrant losing stage control for the possibility of maybe hitting with it. And even then, to land fair offstage we would have to use a jump which makes no follow up possible and then have to UpB back to the ledge/stage.

Seriously, try to edgeguard offstage with Lucario then try it with Marth/Sheik/Mario etc. Our moves are horrendously bad at edgeguarding.
I'll take what I can get against characters like Fox, Falcon, and Rosa. Our FAir can situationally combo into any of our air options except for Extreme Speed and Double Team. Footstool is also an option out of FAir.

I also want to test out Double Team to see if we can hit anyone or limit their recovery while in the air. Think of how Ness' PKT2 doesn't go as far if he hits someone with the bulk of his body. I think a Double Team to eat a PKT2 might be a safer/less damaging option compared to taking the hit and stage teching. It does not hurt to experiment and stuff. I wouldn't of discovered ASC to JC USmash being a true combo if I did not keep an open mind about our options.
 

Lomogoto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
108
Has anyone looked much into the first hit of down air into things like jab, grab or force palm? At high aura/percents the second hit stops connecting correctly and the person just sits there. I assume it isnt true but is a great mix up, especially if they have no frame 1 up B type option.
People on platforms shielding can also be grabbed by using down air to quickly land with the mix up being if you time it so the second hit does or does not come out.
Also if someone doesnt know how to avoid it or loses their jump, stringing the first hit of down air across the stage into force palm is quite fun and quite devistating (did it to a DDD for over 100% in one string . . .)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Has anyone looked much into the first hit of down air into things like jab, grab or force palm? At high aura/percents the second hit stops connecting correctly and the person just sits there. I assume it isnt true but is a great mix up, especially if they have no frame 1 up B type option.
People on platforms shielding can also be grabbed by using down air to quickly land with the mix up being if you time it so the second hit does or does not come out.
Also if someone doesnt know how to avoid it or loses their jump, stringing the first hit of down air across the stage into force palm is quite fun and quite devistating (did it to a DDD for over 100% in one string . . .)
DAir hit 1 can combo into things like FP at higher percent, however it also largely depends on the opponent's DI too. Like you said if they used their second jump that's almost a free FP grab.

At medium percents you may be able to combo into a regular standing grab. If you hit someone with DAir hit 1 with you coming out of hitstun you can FF DAir and perhaps a few more frames to do Aura Dog stuff.

Just be careful if they bait it out because mispaced DAirs can get punished pretty hard.

Jab does not combo into anything other than jabs. Except maybe at like 800%?
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,020
Location
Monrovia, California
I'll take what I can get against characters like Fox, Falcon, and Rosa. Our FAir can situationally combo into any of our air options except for Extreme Speed and Double Team. Footstool is also an option out of FAir.

I also want to test out Double Team to see if we can hit anyone or limit their recovery while in the air. Think of how Ness' PKT2 doesn't go as far if he hits someone with the bulk of his body. I think a Double Team to eat a PKT2 might be a safer/less damaging option compared to taking the hit and stage teching. It does not hurt to experiment and stuff. I wouldn't of discovered ASC to JC USmash being a true combo if I did not keep an open mind about our options.
Believe me, I've tried to use offstage edgeguarding tactics with Lucario and they're not worth it due to just how small his aerials are. The choice for offstage edgeguarding with Lucario is: Give up stage control for possibly hitting with an aerial or stay on stage and react to ledge options.

The most success I've had in offstage edguarding is dropping down and Aura Sphere when an opponent is recovering low. Everything else has not been worth the trouble.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Pitbuller26 Pitbuller26 you seem more negative than usual, you ok, bro?

At least we are tied to have the fastest grab in the game. Speaking of grabs Lucario has some weird grab box by his ears.

I wonder if that is why we have such a large roll canceled pivot grab disjoint because his ears flop forward, lol.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,020
Location
Monrovia, California
It gets frustrating living in a region where I consider Lucario's 3 worst matchups happens to be some of the most common characters in tournament.

Fox and Mario makes playing Lucario feel like a waste of time. What I would give for this character to have his jab be 1 frame faster and the first hit actually be safe on shield like most jabs in the game.
 

Lomogoto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
108
Fun fact, ASC combos into footstool. Let the fun tech chases ensue. Also fun when someone jumps from the ledge. Overall probably useless.

EDIT:
Also i posted earlier about using the c-stick to wave bounce aura sphere (still set to attack, i repeat, not B sticking). By runing, letting go as if to enter the skid animation, then pressing B (probably on a trigger) and c-stick backward you can reverse your aura out of a run without sliding backward like you would for a B reverse.

The c-stick is weird with B moves . . .
 
Last edited:

Megamang

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,719
If you're looking for more info, I believe you have stumbled across C-Bounce or C-sticking.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that could give you more info.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
So if the FAir to footstool to missed on purpose DAir to baby Aura Sphere jab lock works on ROB and we can rinse and repeat...

I wonder if this could work on other larger characters such as Bowser, DK, King Dedede, Ganondorf, etc. I also wonder if we could do a RAR FAir and still do this (since the starting hitbox is lower) on smaller characters.

For those who do not know jab locks force a get up and you cannot tech footstools.

In training mode no charge Aura Sphere jab locks until 103 or 104 for Lucario v. Lucario. I wonder if we could use that for a kill confirm vs. an opponent at 0% or low percent and us at lol Aura percents starting with UTilt if FAir knocks them too far.
 

KakuCP9

What does it mean to be strong?
Premium
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
415
Location
Narnia, Canada
Fair-->bair was discovered a awhile ago, but uses AS charge to set it up. Though I can see the uthrow setup as a way to clean up stocks when Luc just lost one since AS charge is super small when he has a fresh stock.
 

SmashRacer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
208
Location
Denmark, Zealand
NNID
SmashRacer
KakuCP9 KakuCP9
Ok thanks for clarifying. I tried doing DTilt -> Reverse Fair -> Bair, but didn't work out for me since the Reverse Fair always missed. If only DTilt send the opponent at a more vertical angle.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
When you guys jab lock someone how do you personally punish the getup?

I am overly fond of Jump Cancel USmash for... Shoryufloof (ASC to JC USmash), so I have been finding myself using that after Jab Locking. What do you use?
 
Last edited:

Lomogoto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
108
i imagine forward smash is optimal if you are near by but upsmash is good out of a dash
you could rar back air for style and cause connecting that move feels amazing though
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
2,063
Location
Michigan
3DS FC
2363-5671-9607
NNID
MTInfinity
Note to self, test out Force Palm flame onstage after trumping to cover options and perhaps sniping heads.

I wonder how silly it would be if we were to stage spike someone with an offstage aimed towards ledge Force Palm with the intent of stage spiking. We could possibly ledge drop wall jump to get in optimal position I suppose on most legal stages. I know Aura Sphere is pretty much a better choice 99.9% of the time, but swag points, yo.
 

Caedus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
30
I main Samus and picked up Lucario recently. Samus can ledge trump into a guaranteed reverse charge shot. I'm reading through the ledge trumping section of page 5, and haven't seen anyone mention this. Has anyone tested it out?
 

ChkMte

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
12
Location
NY
NNID
ChckMte
So I was scrolling through the VODs on Unrivaled Tournament's youtube channel looking for Some Greninja videos, and I happened across the videos of Tsu's run through winner's bracket. I'm curious to know, what do you guys think about these results? It looks pretty damn good for your community imo.
 

Amaru

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
32
Location
United States
NNID
TheMACH1NE
Tsus run was hella hype. I never knew Lucario could be played so aggressively. Tsu getting second also shows that Lucario is either better than a lot of people thought or other characters in the game have a lot of untapped potential.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,514
Check out this topic: https://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-is-a-cheater-confirmed.456657
And ignore the second post because that is just another Lucario trying to unjustly shift the blame onto me. It seems likely that you cheating Lucario's would often make mistakes such as accidentally keeping buttons pressed without knowing it but we R.O.B.'s are very smart and therefore such mistakes do not occur in our gameplay.

Anyway if you are seeking to develop your skills by using a noncheating character then I suggest Mewtwo, which Lucario is a clone of.
 

nannerham

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
104
Location
in your kitchen
NNID
nannerham
This is the best bait I've ever seen, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling in which case

Effectiveness: 2/10

Entertainment 10/10
 
Last edited:
Top