Meta I can sense your aura : The Lucario metagame thread

[_D._]

I killed Gimr with an up b at final round.

 

[Eeveecario]

So Extreme Speed hitbox comes out on frame 42. Wonder if there is anything we could do to combo into that. Extreme Speed kills are the most hype and disrespectful thing we can do.

Just a minor correction, it hits on frame 46.
And I think there is, after a back-throw or up-throw. It's hard to chain and to risky to try, but if our opponent is too worried for teching or avoiding UpAirs, we can actually catch them by surprise and land a flashy strike, even a KO.

 

[RageShadows]

Whats this 1frame landing lag thing im curious :O

Also back to my real question. How does lucario generally do against Rosaluma? How do Force palm and Aura sphere deal with Luma?

You usually have to head shot from a short hop on a good read if using AS. Reverse Fp is usually good off a fake approach. The match up can be annoying if you aren't patient.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Since the metagame will change with every balance patch what do you guys think about making a thread for every character? That way we can revisit matchups as they get updated. We can also give input in the same thread about the same character which would make it easier to find.

 

[TK Wolf]

Since the metagame will change with every balance patch what do you guys think about making a thread for every character? That way we can revisit matchups as they get updated. We can also give input in the same thread about the same character which would make it easier to find.

I think that's a great idea, especially if there's a main-thread linking to all of them. Wading through a single matchup thread with bits and pieces scattered everywhere is... pretty awful, IMO.

 

[Z1GMA]

I find it hard to gimp ppl as Lucario. Stage Spikes are one thing, but pure gimps.
What would you say are his best GImping Tools?

 

[Croi]

Soft hit nair. First hit dair if your spacing is godlike.

I like to try gimping people with the charging hitbox of Aura Sphere but it rarely works.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I find it hard to gimp ppl as Lucario. Stage Spikes are one thing, but pure gimps.
What would you say are his best GImping Tools?

Footstool for characters that go too deep. I wonder if DAir hit 1 might lead to some silly stuff.

 

[Z1GMA]

Footstool for characters that go too deep. I wonder if DAir hit 1 might lead to some silly stuff.

Hmm. Is Lucario fast enough to Fair (or even better - Bair) and then follow and Foot Stool if they airdodge the attack?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Since the metagame will change with every balance patch what do you guys think about making a thread for every character? That way we can revisit matchups as they get updated. We can also give input in the same thread about the same character which would make it easier to find.

I prefered doing this on the Brawl boards, maybe when I am not swamped with stuff to do I can work on this.

 

[RageShadows]

I l

I find it hard to gimp ppl as Lucario. Stage Spikes are one thing, but pure gimps.
What would you say are his best GImping Tools?

I like stage run off to dair fake when they grabbed the ledge to a footstool. Works well on falcon or characters with bad recoveries.

 

[Trunks159]

What would you guys say is Lucarios best move outside of AS? I just can't seem to figure out this guy. Average ground and air speed, poor range, pretty darn good neutral, no gimpablilty, ok kill power. Well, his sh aerials are solid, and aura is a killer. Can't figure out a good system.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

What would you guys say is Lucarios best move outside of AS? I just can't seem to figure out this guy. Average ground and air speed, poor range, pretty darn good neutral, no gimpablilty, ok kill power. Well, his sh aerials are solid, and aura is a killer. Can't figure out a good system.

I would say his upthrow is his next best move since you can combo out of it and can bait out airdodges easily. Luacrio is a hard character to learn tilts are good for keeping characters away from you and for linking into aerials, spacing with nair is always good with empty hops into grabs as well. Its going to take alot of time to "figure" this character out but he's very powerful once you do, goodluck!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

What would you guys say is Lucarios best move outside of AS? I just can't seem to figure out this guy. Average ground and air speed, poor range, pretty darn good neutral, no gimpablilty, ok kill power. Well, his sh aerials are solid, and aura is a killer. Can't figure out a good system.

Up Throw for them combooos.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.

 

[Kyzael]

Usually if you want to gimp someone for recovering too high, they'll hit the Aura Sphere and get gimped. But if they grab the edge, your next choice depends on who you are fighting. Someone like Captain Falcon, you need to back away. He will just drop the ledge and Uair you.

But someone like Luigi won't be able to hit you when the Aura sphere is huge enough.
Gimping with Lucario is weird as his only reliable moves are a fully charged Aura sphere(since it can hit fingers when they hang on the ledge. Abuse that on first stock) or Dtilt.

 

[Trunks159]

I would say his upthrow is his next best move since you can combo out of it and can bait out airdodges easily. Luacrio is a hard character to learn tilts are good for keeping characters away from you and for linking into aerials, spacing with nair is always good with empty hops into grabs as well. Its going to take alot of time to "figure" this character out but he's very powerful once you do, goodluck!

After seeing the videos @DireWolf put on the video thread, his neutral game is basically HIS game. Up throw-up air shield grab, rinse repeat seen in action.

 

[Nysyr]

Interesting to note we are tied for lowest startup on all defensive options (roll, air dodge, spot dodge), but we have the longest vulnerability time on every one of them apart from roll (only mewtwo is longer iirc).

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello masters of Aura! I'm coming from the Lylat System (the Fox Boards), can't seem to find an MU thread. We've started preliminary discussion on the Lucario vs Fox MU;
vs

Click here to join us and see you there!

 

[_D._]

Someone gave step by step instructions for the reverse wavebounce. With the controller schematic and everything. Where is it.

 

[Nysyr]

Out of curiosity, does our jump canceled upsmash beat out falcons dash attack/grab due to the crouching? Risky if he empty hops his approach of course.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

Someone gave step by step instructions for the reverse wavebounce. With the controller schematic and everything. Where is it.

its in the Q and A thread

 

[Dagon97]

While playing my random crappy lucario vs someone's WFT in friendlies i found out that after 20% aura lucario's fair goes through all of WFT aerials except for the top part of uair which is really specific.

 

[Trunks159]

Someone gave step by step instructions for the reverse wavebounce. With the controller schematic and everything. Where is it.

B Reverse: hold L analog stick slightly towards ur back, then press
Wavebounce: press b, then immediately hold L analog stick slightly in a direction opposite ur momentum

So b reverse is >>
Wavebounce is >>

 

[Eeveecario]

B Reverse: hold L analog stick slightly towards ur back, then press
Wavebounce: press b, then immediately hold L analog stick slightly in a direction opposite ur momentum

So b reverse is >>
Wavebounce is >>

Nope, those are Turnaround and Reverse simultaneously.
The wavebounce is just the Turnaround + Reverse together.

 

[Nysyr]

Was looking into charge frames out of curiosity and noticed that Usmash starts charging on the same frame startup for the move ends, F15. Basically what this means is that after the charge has started the move comes out Frame 1, and accidental charge frames are very difficult and will never get you accidentally killed because you started a charge by accident and then got hit.

Dsmash and Fsmash are the opposite, they begin charging on frame 2 (only MK dsmash is faster at frame 1, so you can never not charge it slightly). Basically, its easy to get bopped during the charge for these 2 smashes and you have one frame of holding the button before you start to take longer with the smash by charging it.

So yeah, charging Usmash is multiples better than charging Fsmash or Dsmash lol.

 

[Rafitak]

Haven't played in a while. Just getting back into this, has Lucario lost a lot of viability? Or is it simply being slept on?

 

[RT]

A few new nifty tricks and stuff have been added to the arsenal but nothing game-breaking.

Combined with the fact no changes in any recent patches, everything pretty much the same.

 

[Rafitak]

I guess we learnt nothing from M2K vs Steam? Or was it a fluke?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Falcon can no longer slide off of the stage when he grabs someone. His pummels whiff us at that point. With the additional Falcon nerfs (UAir less damage) it feels the MU is a lot closer now.

I also posted the replay online and if you're on my friends list you'll have it.

Our Jab connects a lot better too, which is nice.

 

[Croi]

Have they finally fixed the platform glitch on Smashville?

 

[RT]

The one where you spazz near the edge as it moves? I could test it if needed, doing it is my specialty.

 

[Croi]

That's the one.

 

[RT]

I can maybe test later tonight, but it's not hard to replicate.

Get hit near the platform land and techroll towards the edge of the platform in the same direction the platform is moving and try to get off (for example, platform moving left, roll towards left edge and keep trying to run off while the platform is moving to the left). Congratulations, you have generated a terrible sound and caused ears to bleed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFkHmRr6GOY (credits to Alex for being a good sport and not interrupting me)

But yeah, since this is obviously a physics bug, I can only assume it has not been fixed.

I encourage everyone to do this more.

 

[Rysir]

Wait! Falcon no longer slides off the ledge at all with his grab? Thats terrible! It always put you above him and set you up to foot stool him for an easy kill!

 

[Kanzaki]

So I recently picked up Lucario, and was playing last night. I got the wavebounce(or b-reverse? Always get them confused) ASC at the ledge to ledge hog.. I understand when they roll just shoot.. however when they get up and are stuck in my AS, I know I should cancel into an upsmash... however this is never hitting. Any advice? I'm pressing shield to cancel, and then up smash immediately. Perhaps I am not doing it correctly? Do I need to turn around first?

Also what's the best way to punish a spot dodge? With my other characters I tend to just charge a Smash.. however Lucario's smashes seems too slow to be charging. Do I just Fsmash/Dsmash without charging if I read a roll?

 

[Eeveecario]

So I recently picked up Lucario, and was playing last night. I got the wavebounce(or b-reverse? Always get them confused) ASC at the ledge to ledge hog.. I understand when they roll just shoot.. however when they get up and are stuck in my AS, I know I should cancel into an upsmash... however this is never hitting. Any advice? I'm pressing shield to cancel, and then up smash immediately. Perhaps I am not doing it correctly? Do I need to turn around first?

Also what's the best way to punish a spot dodge? With my other characters I tend to just charge a Smash.. however Lucario's smashes seems too slow to be charging. Do I just Fsmash/Dsmash without charging if I read a roll?

You need to do a jump between the shield and the up Smash, and the USmash cancels the jump.
Also, the best way to punish spot dodges are pivot grabs/attacks, ASC and Dair. They can be easily punished if you see them coming, but don't worry too much if you can't.

 

[Kanzaki]

You need to do a jump between the shield and the up Smash, and the USmash cancels the jump.
Also, the best way to punish spot dodges are pivot grabs/attacks, ASC and Dair. They can be easily punished if you see them coming, but don't worry too much if you can't.

So no need to turn around to upsmash? Should I wait until a certain point while they're in the Aura Sphere to usmash? Or as long as they are in there, they will get hit regardless?

 

[Eeveecario]

So no need to turn around to upsmash? Should I wait until a certain point while they're in the Aura Sphere to usmash? Or as long as they are in there, they will get hit regardless?

Mmmm... the timing is hard to explain... it's like the closest to the center/up center from the ASC. And leave some distance between the floor and your foe to don't let them shield, but not that high to let them jump out.

 

[Kanzaki]

Mmmm... the timing is hard to explain... it's like the closest to the center/up center from the ASC. And leave some distance between the floor and your foe to don't let them shield, but not that high to let them jump out.

Any videos?

 

[Marty.]

Usually what I do after an opponent is caught in my ASC is Cancel ASC -> SH -> Dair.
It has a pretty good chance of connecting