How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[Ussi]

Tomorrow I leave for my cruise so I won't be back until late night July 6th or July 7th mid day.

Nysyarc it's up to you to update the the OP

 

[Nysyarc]

Tomorrow I leave for my cruise so I won't be back until late night July 6th or July 7th mid day.

Nysyarc it's up to you to update the the OP

Cool, sounds like a fun trip, I'll hold down the fort for you. If you want to have friendlies with me now I'm just sitting on WiFi while I'm in here so you can host and I'll join you.

Almost done my moveset analysis completely, just working on the last few throws now. Once I'm done this I'll get to work on Control Schemes and maybe edit a few sections.

 

[Heartstring]

sorry my stage thingy isnt up yet, i had a massive powercut near the end of it, and power has only just been restored since then XD
anyway, i have if saved on my home computer, so give it a few hours and ill have that up.

also. have a nice trip ussi, try not to think of us while youre on ship deck while we're busy slaving away over this ike guide XD

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I thought we were all going to contribute, not let Ussi do this guide by himself.

 

[Ussi]

He meant i'm just making you guys do all the work while i go on vacation then come back make it look pretty and say i ran the entire thing

as a joke he did

 

[Nysyarc]

as a joke he did

That's what you think, I think G.P is just a douche. Get at me.

Anyways, still touching up on my moveset, I had to go back and change/add a lot of stuff to the aerials section.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Spoiler

ahem

***UPDATE***

Updated my previous post {post no. 64}.

I'll write a part for classic controller soon .... ...... Its pretty much the same as GC though ... but anyways

 

[Nysyarc]

Spoiler

ahem

***UPDATE***

My bad, I thought Ussi had already put it in since he posted right after you. It's been updated in the OP now, thanks for the contribution, it looks great!

 

[Heartstring]

That's what you think, I think G.P is just a douche. Get at me.

Anyways, still touching up on my moveset, I had to go back and change/add a lot of stuff to the aerials section.

it was a joke XD i hope yours was too.

yeah the things already like, half done. and this is the third day its been up...dang

 

[Mr. Doom]

It was written on the guide that a grenade lasts 4 seconds. Actually, they last 3 seconds before they explode.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It was written on the guide that a grenade lasts 4 seconds. Actually, they last 3 seconds before they explode.

It depends on how you count. For me it's 4 seconds.

 

[Heartstring]

It depends on how you count. For me it's 4 seconds.

**** arguement...imma go get a stopwatch XD

 

[Mr. Doom]

If you start at one, then yes. But, that's really not the proper way to start a clock.

 

[Iofsauron]

This guide is going incredibly well! Keep it up!

 

[lax guy5]

Awesome thread. Many thanks for makin' it!

 

[Foodies]

According to the Snake board's guide grenades takes 3 seconds to explode.

 

[san.]

Yeah, I'm the one who mentioned 4. Because I always count from 1 when snakes pull nades and I always remember them blowing up ~ the count of 4. Not to mention I recall a random post from a few months back that mentioned 4, too.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yeah, I'm the one who mentioned 4. Because I always count from 1 when snakes pull nades and I always remember them blowing up ~ the count of 4. Not to mention I recall a random post from a few months back that mentioned 4, too.

I mentioned 4 first, for the same reason!

 

[san.]

It's all good. Who counts from 0 when in the middle of a match? LOL

 

[Nidtendofreak]

No clue.

Stupid people?

 

[Ussi]

Literally technical people do

 

[theeboredone]

I've always delayed my start count when I do count. I pretty much just envision a stop watch in my head.

 

[Mr. Doom]

You just called me stupid, Niddo.

 

[Teh Brettster]

What Bored said. I wait a second without thinking ZERO. And then I start from one.

 

[san.]

I count in my head, but don't actually count, just feel for the timing, if you want to get really specific.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Well, yeah, I'm not sure if anyone REALLY puts enough thought into really counting the seconds. But I sometimes feel like an internal beat after the grenade is pulled.

What are we doing on this tangent? Someone find a way to get this back on topic.

 

[san.]

As long as you just instathrow the grenades away I don't care lol.

Might do something on offense tomorrow.

 

[Blacknight99923]

good guide, I don't plan on using ike in a tournament anytime within like 5 years but its still cool to read some of this stuff :D

 

[Heartstring]

with the nades i just sorta know the time it takes for the grenade pull sfx till the explosion. i rely WAY too much on audio signals ingame

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You just called me stupid, Niddo.

I call everyone stupid at some point or another, including myself. :D

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Would it be okay to hold shield is your timing went off and you're near a grenade?

 

[Foodies]

It's probably better than being hit by the grenade.

I got started on "Dealing with Ledge hangers". There's a lot that I don't know though, so you guys will probably have to fill in a lot. I'll post what I have after I get back from hiking.

 

[Max113]

Here is the Online vs Offline stuff I threw together. Take from it whatever you need/want.

[collapse= Online vs Offline Pros & Cons]
Online vs. Offline


Online:

Pros:

- Can play anyone in the world
- Lag makes moves easier to land
- Harder to be punished
- Lag allows for more reaction time
- Easier / Harder to DI
- Buffering is easier
- Lag can make strings into combos

Ike Specific Pros:

- Standards for spacing are a bit more lenient
- Jab cancelling for president! (Jab cancelling is harder to escape)
- Ike is apparently a Wifi god…
- Walk off Dair makes bananas of a predictable recovery ;D
- Can be harder to gimp / edge guard Ike


Cons:

- Lag can a bit of a random variable
- Harder to punish mistakes
- Harder to Power Shield
- Harder to Tech
- Punishing tends to require good reading skills
- Wifi has its own tier list
- Lag can throw one’s sense of timing
- Frame specific tactics are harder to execute
- Stuff that would usually never work offline can work rather well online
- Online requires a “different” kind of skill than offline does

Ike Specific Cons:

- Camping can destroy Ike
- Ike tends be easier to predict and punish
- Spacing is more difficult
- Jab cancelling can be harder to time



Offline:

Pros:

- Players usually play their best offline
- Games can be a lot more fun
- You can win money at tournaments
- You can talk to the other player…
- No lag
- Teching is easier
- Punishing can be easier
- Power Shielding is much easier
- Frame specific tactics are easier to execute
- DI can be easier


Ike Specific Pros:

- Super Camping is no longer a Death Sentence
- Approaching can be easier
- Punishing with a powerful move is easier

Cons:

- The person you’re playing has to be on the same Wii as you
- If you’re at a tournament, losing means losing money
- Easier for your mistakes to be punished
- Buffering can be harder
- Less time to react

Ike Specific Cons:

- Standards for spacing are more strict
- Brainless game play is almost ineffective
- Jab cancelling needs to be well-timed to link together
- Being Gimped / Edge guarded is easier
- Ike is apparently a Wifi god…


Side Note: All the pros and all the cons also apply to your opponent[/collapse]

EDIT: I can also do the "Applying Wifi to Offline" as well as the "Baiting a defense reaction" sections.

 

[Mr. Doom]

If I may add something about the pros and cons of Online vs Offline...

Online
Cons - Harder to SDI

Offline
Pros - Easier to SDI

Back to lurking status...

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Yeah I agree with Mr. Doom and that it is harder to SDI online. Timing is usually done when you get hit, but with online there's lag and the input for SDI is too late already.

 

[Foodies]

My comments/questions are in [brackets]. Anyone who knows about stuff feel free to add or fix anything. Actually, please do. There's a lot of information I don't know

[collapse= Super rough draft of Dealing with Ledge hangers]
1. Stand an appropriate distance away – Depending on what character you are facing, your distance will be closer or farther from the ledge, as each character has a different get-up attack range. For example, the space animals’ (Fox/Falco/Wolf) get-up attack range (under 100% at least) cover a lot more distance compared to a character such as Jigglypuff. This means you should also look at what % your opponent is at to position yourself correctly. Most people do not actually use the get-up attack too much, as it is easily punished on block, but be aware that they have the option. You also do not want to be too close to the ledge, since even if you shield an attack, you might be pushed off the stage yourself. [maybe should mention ledgedropped attacks too, though they usually have same range as a get-up attack]

1a. Look at %s – After 100%, all characters’ get-up attacks change, typically becoming slower and stronger. Also, the higher the percent someone is, the longer it takes for them to normal get-up and roll from the ledge. This means they have more invincibility frames, but also more vulnerability frames. [Jump speed is the same?]

2. Attacking – If your opponent stays too long on the ledge, their invincibility frames will run out, and you have the option of hitting them. Yay.

A list of attacks that can hit then if they hang too long: [should probably order in terms of usefulness]

Fair – One of the better options. Even though it comes out roughly the same speed as Dtilt and Ftilt [if you don’t include jumping?], it doesn’t as much ending lag, and also has pretty good range.

Dtilt – Spiiike! The fastest move that will probably kill if it hits. It’s range isn’t the greatest though, and [all?] character’s get up attacks can hit you.

Ftilt (angled down) – This is comes out 1 frame slower than Dtilt, but has more range. [not quite sure about this. But if it doesn’t you might as well use Dtilt instead...]

Dash attack [only on certain characters?] – The good thing about this move is that you can use it at a farther distance away, so your opponent might not expect it. [Actually, you have to use it at a farther distance away though, or it won’t work?] It also sends your opponent horizontally, which means if they didn’t expect it (and didn’t DI) they are now in a really bad position.

Jab3 – The fastest move you can use to hit the opponent off the ledge. It is also probably the weakest as well. [Nobody really uses it though...]

Uair – A mixup. Run off the stage and Uair your opponent; this is only suggested if the Uair would kill/almost kill them though. This is because if you don’t, you are now offstage and forced to recover, and your opponent might be able to ledgeguard you instead. [this is worded funny...needs editing xD]

Bair – Another mixup. Run off the stage and Bair your opponent; if it hits, you most likely will stage spike and kill them. If it doesn’t, you are pretty much in the same position as if you missed the Uair. [Except this time you have the option of landing on the stage with Aether? (safer); If this is true why would you even use Uair as opposed to Bair? ]

Fsmash – Lolfsmash. The startup time alone allows your opponent to react and do something to avoid it; if you miss you are likely to get punished as well. You can charge it for mindgames, but it’s not likely to hit anyway. On the plus side, if it does hit you probably have killed them.

Usmash (back end) – [Don’t really know when you’d use this besides when it can kill. Ftilt probably would be faster anyway? This probably has more range though...]

Eruption – [not sure if this can actually hit them on the ledge. Is it possible to spike them with this? At least the SA frames can stop an attempt to hit you. Still not that great though.]

Dsmash – You just messed up a Dtilt, didn’t you? I guess it is one of the faster attacks that hits the ledge, but if whiffed you have this lovely ending lag that will most likely get you punished.

3. Waiting – Even if your opponent’s invincibility frames run out, sometimes it is better do not hit them, as they can be timing their get-up just as you attempt to hit them. Character’s options are more limited on the ledge, so you can react to what they do. [Can probably expand this]

Sort of related side note – Characters that have recovery moves that auto-sweetspot the edge (Marth comes to mind) will get landing lag if they land on the stage (without using an aerial) after sweetspotting the edge. You can get a free attack if they forget to cancel their lag. [People who are good would always cancel it though]

[/collapse]

 

[Nysyarc]

Awesome, thank you Max and Foodies for the input, they've been added to the OP. Remember it doesn't matter how rough it is at first, even if you're not 100% sure about something (heck even if you're only like 10% sure of something), throw it in there and we can add to it/edit it/whatever later. We're getting some very nice foundations for all the sections now, which is exactly what we need.

Oh and I added the bit about SDI into the pros/cons for WiFi thing Mr. Doom.

 

[Heartstring]

just thinking, should we have a section on how to deal with dangerous attacks and stuff?
for example, snakes nades, falco's laser, mk's tornado etc, stuff that makes a character realyl brilliant, if we prevent it, it makes them considerably less of a threat (except mk, hes always a threat)

 

[Nysyarc]

just thinking, should we have a section on how to deal with dangerous attacks and stuff?
for example, snakes nades, falco's laser, mk's tornado etc, stuff that makes a character realyl brilliant, if we prevent it, it makes them considerably less of a threat (except mk, hes always a threat)

That's not a bad idea, but it could maybe wait until we have the rest of it done. Like the stages, it would take awhile, and we would have to do it for every character if we did it for some; every character has at least one move that is hard to deal with or annoying in some way, most have multiple.

 

[Heartstring]

That's not a bad idea, but it could maybe wait until we have the rest of it done. Like the stages, it would take awhile, and we would have to do it for every character if we did it for some; every character has at least one move that is hard to deal with or annoying in some way, most have multiple.

well if you want to see the way its done, go off to the samus boards, i think they have one there.
but heres a shortlist on the msot horrifying moves for ike in my opinion

mk's nado
mk's dsmash
snakes grenades
snakes f/u-tilt
diddy's nana's
falco's laser
icies blizzard (jumping desync or whatever its called)
olimar's pivot grab
pikachu's neutral-b
dk's offstage cargo d-throw

and others