How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

Ussi

Smash Legend
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Mar 9, 2008
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#1
The greatest Ike ditto ever

Ike Outline

Part 0: DI and MC
DI IS ALTERING THE DIRECTION YOU GO WHEN YOU ARE HIT

SDI IS HAX TELEPORTING BEFORE YOU START FLYING

MOMENTUM CANCELING IS WHEN YOU INTERUPT HITSTUN WITH AN AERIAL/AIR DODGE TO STOP YOURSELF FROM FLYING.

Part -I: Introductory
A. Lingo
Official thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773
Will write my own dumbed down verison
B. FAQs
C. THIS IS BRAWL YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW WHO IKE IS ELSEWHERE
D. A friendly hello from our Ike mains! (.. except from Bored)
Part I: Moveset Analysis Nysyarc

[collapse=Moveset Analysis]
Ike's Moveset Analysis
Written by Nysyarc
Here you will find basic information, general strategy and ratings for every attack in Ike's moveset. All credit goes to Kirk for frame data and the hitbox visuals. His thread, Ike Data Compilation, made much of this possible, and you can refer to it for more in-depth arithmetical data on Ike's moves.

Each move has been given a rating out of 5, represented by Ike heads. If a move was given 5 Ike heads, it is one of Ike's best moves, while if it was given only 1 Ike head, it is one of his worst moves. Here is a general guideline to follow when using the rating system to determine a move's viability in competition:

:ike::ike::ike::ike::ike: = An excellent move, it should be used very frequently.
:ike::ike::ike::ike: = A good move that can be used often but not without caution.
:ike::ike::ike: = An average move that is situational but great at specific things.
:ike::ike: = An inflexible move that should not be used often; very situational.
:ike: = There is always a better option than this move, never use it.

~~~~~ Basic Attacks ~~~~~
Jab 1

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 17
Damage: 4%

This is one of the most central moves to Ike’s entire existence. The Jab 1, or the first hit of Ike’s neutral A combo on the ground, is a fast and effective way to lead into many other attacks and set up different situations. It can be canceled into many different moves (more information on Jab Canceling further down in the guide), or simply strung into the second and third hits of the Jab combo for a good amount of damage.

You should be using Jab very often during a match against any other character in the game. Use it out of shield to punish whiffed attacks, or use it while on the offense to lead into other moves. Use it to punish air-dodges, rolls, spot-dodges, and to interrupt slow attacks. Jab can also clank with many projectiles. All the uses of the Jab combo will be gone over in much greater detail in a later section of the guide.

Jab 2

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 20
Damage: 5%

The second hit of Ike’s grounded neutral A combo is slightly less useful than the first when you consider that it can’t be used first and that it cannot be interrupted as early. Still arguably the best and certainly the easiest follow-up to the first Jab, it can string into the third Jab, be canceled back into the first Jab, or strung into other attacks. Jab 2 has more horizontal range than Jab 1, and so it can be used for spacing while on the ground to some extent, since it can be ended early and is relatively safe.

Canceling Jab 2 into Jab 1 is not as fast as just Jab 1 into Jab 1, so you should be careful about when you choose to do it. The advantage of it is that Ike moves forward slightly when using Jab 2, so you can follow an opponent who is SDIing away from you. If you catch an opponent horizontally out in front of and above you with Jab 1, you can hold down A to Combat Walk, basically you will repeatedly use Jab 2 and miss automatically, looping back to Jab 1 to hit them again.

Jab 3

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]


[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 10-14
Ends on Frame 38
Damage: 7%

The third Jab is usually a guaranteed follow-up to the second, which makes Jab 1 to Jab 2 to Jab 3 a very safe and effective three-hit combo at any percent and against any character. Jab 3 has a lingering hitbox after Ike swings the sword, which has some use in punishing spot-dodges, but you should not use Jab 3 if you missed the opponent with Jab 1 and 2, because Jab 3 takes longer to end and so you will be more vulnerable.

Jab 3 is powerful enough that it is possible to KO with it at very high percents, or at least to get your opponents far enough off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. Following up your Jab 1 and Jab 2 with other moves like Up Tilt is a better idea for KOing at high percents, but ending with Jab 3 is good for racking damage early on.

Dash Attack

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
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Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-19
End on Frame 51
Damage: 7-8%

Ike’s Dash Attack (or DA) is a move that definitely has it’s uses, but should not be used excessively. DA does not do too much damage on it’s own, but can be used as a follow-up to different attacks (see the section on following up Ike’s throws). The hitbox closer to the tip of Ike’s sword deals 1% more damage than those closer to Ike, but it really doesn’t make too much difference.

DA has a lot of horizontal range, and since the beginning of the animation looks like Ike’s dash, it can sometimes fool opponents. You should not be using DA as an approach however, because it is easily blocked and punished. You can use DA to punish opponents who are rolling away from you, or performing a laggy action far across the stage (using a slow projectile like Pikmin throw for example).

It is also sometimes a good idea to hit opponent’s trying to recover with DA if the opportunity presents itself, because it will send them at a good angle off-stage and allow you to have a better shot at edge-guarding effectively. Take some time to get used to how far Ike moves forward when using DA and accustom yourself to where and how soon the hitbox comes out, so you will be able to better utilize it in different situations.

~~~~~ Tilt Attacks ~~~~~
Forward Tilt

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]No angle:


Angled up:


Angled down:
[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 17-19
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 12-15%

Forward Tilt (or Ftilt) is a strong KO move at higher percents if you can make a read and space it well, but otherwise it does not have too many practical uses. It’s damage drops considerably if you hit your opponent near Ike’s waist, doing only 12% compared to 15% if you hit with the tip or middle section of the sword. Ftilt is too slow of a move and certainly takes too long to end for it to be a viable damage-racking move.

Some particular scenarios where Ftilt will work is if you can bait your opponent into air-dodging or poorly spacing an aerial while coming back to the stage. If you retreat a bit and then turn and Ftilt, it is fast enough that it can catch an opponent after such an action and even if it doesn’t KO them, put them in a bad position off stage. Mostly though, you should not be using Ftilt until your opponent is at 80-110% based on how heavy they are, since it’s only real purpose is as a KO move.

Up Tilt

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]




Note: This only roughly shows the entire area that Utilt affects. The first image shows Frame 1 of the hitbox (Frame 13 of the animation), but the hitbox lingers in the position of the third image for about 12 frames.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 13-29
Ends on Frame 50
Damage: 9-12%

Ike’s Up Tilt (or Utilt) is an excellent move all around in a lot of situations. The hitbox stays out for a long time, making the move fairly safe considering it also ends earlier than Ike’s other tilt attacks. It’s hitbox forms a protective square all around Ike, starting at his feet and rising over him to reach above platforms on stages like Battlefield. Utilt does 12% damage if you hit with the sword initially, but only 10% if you hit once the hitbox has reached it’s peak, and 9% if you hit with the hilt.

The lingering hitbox up high makes this move great for punishing things like rolls and spot dodges on a platform above you, and also air-dodges over your head. Utilt is powerful enough to KO relatively early if it’s fresh, usually just over 100% for the majority of the cast. On top of all that, it also comes out quite fast, with the earliest hitbox appearing after just 13 frames.

You can use Utilt as a follow up to moves like Neutral Aerial and Jab 1 at low percents to help rack damage, or keep it fresh to use as a KO move. Either way, Utilt is a great move that can be used fairly often in competitive matches. There are still times when you should not use Utilt, but it is harder to punish than many of your other ground attacks, so you don’t have to be as hesitant if you see an opportunity.

Down Tilt

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]

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Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 16-18
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 14%

The Down Tilt (or Dtilt) is not a terrible move, but it is very situational and otherwise risky to use. It’s primary function is as a spike near the ledge, which of course means you won’t be getting too many spikes with it since your opponents can just grab the ledge to avoid it. Dtilt’s small hitbox and long ending time means it is not a good option on-stage, although if you manage to hit with the hilt of the sword it will send your opponent at a forward angle stronger than an Ftilt.

No matter what part of the hitbox connects, Dtilt will deal 14% damage fresh. It has a slight chance of tripping on-stage, but this is not practical due to it’s lack of speed and your inability to follow up the trip. The best way to spike with Dtilt is against opponents who have recoveries that do not automatically snap to the ledge (Luigi’s sideB recovery for example). It should not be used to punish planking, especially against characters like Meta Knight since it takes so long to start up and end.

~~~~~ Smash Attacks ~~~~~
Forward Smash

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]




Note: As you can see, the area in the upper-right of these images close to the visible platform is not affected by the hitbox even though it appears to be within the sword's swing radius.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 31-34
Ends on Frame 80
Damage: 17-22%

Forward Smash (or Fsmash) is a move that should not be used often at all, but if used intelligently, can instantly change the momentum of a match. The hitbox ends quickly and covers an area directly above and in front of Ike, but not the diagonal out in front of him (see the hitbox visual). Fsmash will usually do 22% damage fresh and uncharged, but will deal only 17% if you hit with the tip at the end of the attack and 20% if you hit with the hilt.

Fsmash has the longest start-up time of any of Ike’s smashes, but it only takes 7 frames for the hitbox to emerge after holding it to charge, ironically the fastest of Ike’s smashes. Thus making a read and charging an Fsmash to punish something like an air-dodge, a poorly spaced attack or a grounded dodge is effective since you can easily time it’s release. You should not use Fsmash if you are not 100% sure of your intentions though, never just ‘throw it out’ in hopes that it will connect.

It is possible to KO with a charged Fsmash as early as 40% near the edge of many stages and against certain characters. Most often you should try to land a slightly charged Fsmash in the 60-80% range near the ledge to KO your opponent. If it does not work once, do not try it again that stock, and possibly even that match. You have much faster and more reliable KO moves for opponents that are over 80% damage, so do not take unnecessary risks by using an Fsmash.

Up Smash

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]







Note: The second and fourth images show the frames during which the hitbox can poke under a shield on a platform. If you compare the height of the platforms in the images to the hitbox, you will see that this is the case, and in-game occurrences have proven it.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 25-31
Ends on Frame 67
Damage: 17-19%

Ike’s Up Smash (or Usmash) is by far the best of his smash attacks and arguably one of his best KO moves. Usmash comes out slower than a tilt, but relatively quick considering it’s strength and damage output. The initial hitbox of Usmash will do 17% damage, while the last two frames that linger on the back end of the swing deal 19%. Usmash ends deceptively early and you can slide while using it, so it is your safest all-purpose smash attack.

Usmash can be used at lower percents to inflict damage if an opportunity presents itself, but it is best kept fresh to KO at upwards of 90% on most characters. Retreating an Usmash by dashing backwards and then inputting the Usmash is very safe and effective if you can bait an approach. Usmash is ideal for punishing rolls since it’s hitbox lingers after the backswing. It is also great for punishing baited air-dodges due to it’s large sweeping range and the fact that you can charge it.

You can use an Usmash to follow up things like Jabs or an Nair at low percents if you’ve read your opponent. For example, if they like to spot-dodge or roll out of your flubbed Jab Cancels, try Jabbing just once and then beginning to charge an Usmash. If they spot-dodge or roll, it will be easy to punish and the reward is high. If you whiff an Usmash, and your opponent is advancing to punish you, be ready to put a shield on or Jab them at the earliest possible moment, because either of those will often catch them off guard.

Usmash is also excellent for sharking platforms. It’s hitboxes are mapped to Ike’s sword, which skips over wide areas and ends up hitting directly at the level of a Battlefield platform on two separate frames of the attack (see the hitbox visual). This means that it can perfectly poke underneath an opponent’s semi-worn shield as long as they are not directly above you. If an opponent is holding their shield on above you and to either side a bit, go for the Usmash shield poke.

Down Smash

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]




Note: The smaller hitbox seen in the third image lingers for 9 frames and only deals 8% damage in contrast to the larger one (seen in the second image) which lasts for 4 frames and deals 16% damage.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike:
Hits on Frames 13-16 and 32-44
Ends on Frame 70
Damage: 13% and 8-16%

Down Smash (or Dsmash) would be an excellent move if the first hit could string into the second (doing a total of 29% damage fresh), but it can’t. So it’s a pretty terrible move. In fact it’s not so much that Dsmash is an awful move, but rather that Ike has a different move that is better suited for every situation. The first hit always does 13% damage fresh and the back hit will initially do 16%, but then degrade all the way to 8% during the smaller, lingering part of the hitbox (see the hitbox visual).

Dsmash comes out on frame 13, pretty fast. But so does Utilt. Dsmash does 16% damage on the back hit. So does a full Jab combo. Dsmash covers in front of and behind Ike. So does Usmash, except Usmash gets behind Ike faster, covers above him too, deals more damage, KOs better, and ends earlier. Believe it or not, Dsmash has less base knockback (KO power) than Ike’s Neutral Aerial. All of this, along with the fact that Dsmash is very punishable if whiffed, means you should never be using it in a competitive match. There’s just no point.

~~~~~ Aerial Attacks ~~~~~
Neutral Aerial

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]










Note: Like Utilt, these images do not show every frame of the hitbox; some frames are skipped between images. The first image shows the initial position of the hitbox, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 15-32
Ends on Frame 76 (Air) and 13 (Landing)
Damage: 9%

Ike’s Neutral Aerial (or Nair) is likely one of the best aerial attacks in the game. It combines a long hitbox, good damage output, combo-ability, range, and speed in a way that very few other aerial attacks, even attacks in general, can. Nair will deal 9% damage fresh no matter what part of the hitbox connects, and although it is difficult to auto-cancel upon landing, it can be interrupted after just 13 frames. One problem is how long it lasts in the air, so you shouldn’t be using it off-stage.

On-stage however, Nair has a myriad uses, limited only by your imagination. It can be used as a very safe approach on many characters as long as it is spaced well, which means not jumping straight into your opponent when you use it. There is no safer way for Ike to retreat than an Nair thrown out while jumping backwards or even while facing away from your opponent, since Nair’s hitbox ends up behind Ike. Using a full-hop and Nair is a great way to safely board a Battlefield-height platform from below.

If you connect with Nair at low percents, you can string the hit into a Jab 1 and thence to other moves, or you can string it into an Utilt or a Back Aerial in certain situations. Stringing it into a Jab will usually guarantee the most total damage you’ll get out of the pseudo combo, but on a stage like Battlefield you can use an Utilt after Nair to get them above the platforms and then shark them for extra damage.

You should be using Nair very often at low and middling percents, but then easing off and using better KO moves as you rack damage. There’s nothing wrong with using Nair at high percents, it’s still very safe, but it will rarely get you the KO. Using the c-stick to Nair (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) is very helpful because it allows you to continue to move left or right while airborne, you don’t have to stop motion and tap A to perform the Nair.

Nair is an excellent frame trap for punishing air-dodges. If you use it to challenge someone returning to the stage, most characters cannot out-range it, so they will air-dodge. Because of Nair’s long hitbox, it can catch most characters after their air-dodge if you time it and space it right. Using your Down Throw at low percents and following up with an Nair will often work as well for the same reason: many players will air-dodge after the Down Throw (see the section on Following-Up Throws).

On top of all this, Nair is also one of Ike’s best moves for platform sharking. The initial 6 frames of the hitbox appear above a platform if you short-hop and Nair immediately, and you can either then fast-fall and reset yourself if you hit them, or allow yourself to fall normally so that the back end of Nair’s hitbox rises above the platform for several more frames. Short-hopping and fast-falling your Nairs is key to being as quick as possible with them, since Nair takes a long time to end in the air but ends very quickly after landing.

Forward Aerial

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]



[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-21
Ends on Frame 60 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 13%

The Forward Aerial (or Fair) is a very versatile move that has plenty of good uses. It is not the safest aerial to use in every situation, but you will find yourself using often. Fair deals 13% fresh at all points of the hitbox and does not last an undue amount of time in the air. The auto-cancel window is decent, and allows you to auto-cancel an Fair if you use it immediately on a full-hop jump (without double-jumping or fast-falling). The landing lag itself isn’t too bad either, especially considering Fair’s enormous range.

The fact is, if you space Fair properly, the only aerial moves in the game that can really challenge it are Samus, Link and Toon Link’s Zair (literally pressing Z in the air). You should never jump straight into your opponent when using Fair, jumping forward slightly is fine, as long as you retreat back afterwards if you did not successfully hit your opponent. Fair is a good approach in this sense because it cannot be directly challenged by a lot of characters. Although Fair will usually stale due to it’s frequent use as a spacing move, it can also KO quite well if it’s kept fresh.

One technique for utilizing Fair’s range in a safe and effective way without the need of any custom controls, is to press whatever button you have jump set to (I use ‘X’ myself) and at the exact same moment, hold the control stick in the direction you are facing and press A. Now, this will execute a full-hop Fair that will auto-cancel if you do not fast-fall and land on even ground, but because you have the control stick still jammed forward, Ike will jump towards the opponent. You can easily control the direction of his jump while still controlling the direction of the Fair though.

If you immediately mash the control stick back in the opposite direction after inputting the jump and A buttons, Ike will jump backwards and Fair forwards at the same time; on top of that, it will still auto-cancel. Like I said, no custom control schemes are necessary to do this, and it allows you full control of Ike throughout the jump since the Fair is inputted before you are actually in the air (which is called buffering). Now obviously this method means Fair’s hitbox will be up fairly high, so it works best on opponents approaching from the air or on platforms. Otherwise, you should always be short-hopping and fast-falling when you Fair.

Back Aerial

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 7-9
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 14%

Back Aerial (or Bair) is another exceptional aerial attack that has many different practical uses. The hitbox emerges very quickly, Ike’s second fastest attack other than Jab 1, and will always deal 14% damage when it’s fresh. It has as much landing lag as Fair, but it can be auto-canceled if you short-hop and use Bair immediately, not fast-falling afterwards. The easiest way to do this is to tap up on the control stick and back on the c-stick immediately afterwards (very close to the exact same time).

One of the most effective and commonly used functions of Bair is as an option Out of Shield (OoS). If you shield an opponent’s attack, or particularly if you power-shield their attack and you have your back to them, whipping out a Bair to punish is almost always a safe and effective option. You have the choice then to either move back towards them through the air and follow-up with Jabs after Bair auto-cancels (this only works at low percents), or to move away from them if you are unsure whether the Bair will connect. Retreating and auto-canceling your Bairs by short-hopping is as safe or safer than retreating with Nair.

On top of being able to auto-cancel Bair by short-hopping it on even ground, you can also do a full-hop and Bair immediately to auto-cancel it landing on a platform above you. This works on Battlefield, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon (only the second transformation of the stage), Halberd, the side platforms of Lylat Cruise, and the Pokemon Stadiums. This is useful if your opponent is at a low percent on a platform; you can full-hop up and Bair them and then follow-up immediately when it auto-cancels.

Due to the speed that Bair comes out and it’s very good horizontal range, it can be used to challenge the aerials of many other characters. If you have your back to your opponent, they will often be wary of Bair, and rightly so. Jumping up with your back to your opponent while they are returning to the stage will often bait an air-dodge, which you can then punish by waiting until it ends and whipping out Bair.

Bair’s hitbox reaches above Battlefield-height platforms if you short-hop auto-cancel it, making it great for punishing opponent’s who are rolling or spot-dodging on the platforms. It will obviously send them horizontally, which can be favorable to the vertical trajectory that many of Ike’s other sharking moves feature. Hitting your opponent off-stage at a nice angle can set up for an edge-guard against many characters. And on that note, Bair is also great for edge-guarding because it will out-prioritize many recoveries such as DK’s Kopter Kong and even another Ike’s Aether.

On top of all these benefits, Bair is a wonderful tool that can be used at low percents to string into other moves and rack damage (it does a solid amount of damage itself), or it can be saved as a KO move at higher percents. If it’s kept fresh, a Bair can KO most opponents within the 90-110% range, and even stale it remains a reliable KO move or at least a nice way to get your opponent off-stage. Like Nair, the uses you can find for Bair are really only limited by your imagination.

Up Aerial

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]










Note: Again, like Utilt and Nair, there are some frames of the hitbox that are skipped in these images. As always, the first image shows the initial hitbox position, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 15-31
Ends on Frame 58 (Air) and 19 (Landing)
Damage: 14%

Ike’s Up Aerial (or Uair) has a lot of very good uses, but is not as consistently safe to use as some of his other aerials. Nevertheless it is an excellent move, dealing a solid 14% damage fresh and with a lingering hitbox that covers a wide area above Ike for a good amount of time. It can be interrupted in the air slightly earlier than Fair, and it has the second lowest landing lag time of Ike’s aerials, behind only Nair. As if all that wasn’t good enough, it also has significant KO power.

The first and probably best of Uair’s many uses is for sharking platforms both near and far from the ground. It’s swirling hitbox easily covers an entire platform and because it lasts for 16 frames, it can punish rolls or spot-dodges very effectively. In general it is a good move to use as an opponent is falling from up high, platforms or not. It comes out relatively quick and will take priority over a lot of other character’s aerials.

The best way to use Uair on an opponent who is falling towards you is to jump up and meet them a good distance above the ground, but with your back to them. Uair’s hitbox spends most of it’s time behind Ike (see the hitbox visual), and so if you fall with your opponent just a bit underneath and in front of them, your Uair will be spaced well enough to out-range many aerials and will frame trap your opponent if they air-dodge.

Uair can be used while you are falling back to the stage as well. Many people will not expect this, and as long as you space it well horizontally, have your back to your opponent and fast-fall, you should be safe. It can even get you a surprise KO since most people will instinctively DI up, expecting an attack like Fair while you are dropping. Uair may not have much less landing lag than Fair and Bair, but even 3 frames can be enough to throw some people off, so be ready to Jab or defend at the earliest possible moment after landing.

Down Aerial

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]



Note: The hitbox seen in the first image (which lasts for 2 frames) deals 16% damage and will spike the opponent. The hitbox from the second image lingers for 12 frames, deals 12% damage and hits opponents upward.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 16-30
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 29 (Landing)
Damage: 12-16%

Down Aerial (or Dair) is a move that has only one practical purpose, but it can achieve that purpose in many different ways. That purpose is to spike your opponents, and Dair is Ike’s best move spiking move. It will deal 16% damage for the first two frames of the attack that spike, and then the lingering hitbox that sends opponents upward will do only 12% (see the hitbox visual). Like Bair, it does not take very long to end in the air, but it has horrendous landing lag on-stage.

Now to quickly go over other, mostly inviable uses for Dair. If you full-hop and immediately input a Dair at the same time, the attack will end before Ike hits the ground again, meaning you can double-jump and use another attack. The same goes for Bair of course. If you manage to full-hop Dair someone beneath you at around 30%, double-jumping and using Bair as soon as it’s possible is a true combo. Even DI cannot save them since you can follow them with your jump and Bair has a large hitbox. However, the risk of trying this outweighs the small benefit due to Dair’s on-stage landing lag and the fact that your opponent has to be directly beneath you for it to work.

Moving on, there are several practical ways to spike with Dair. One is to jump high off-stage to meet a returning opponent, wait for them to air-dodge and then use the tilt stick (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) to perform your Dair as punishment. If you don’t think they will attempt to air-dodge, you can simply jump up off-stage and Dair without need of the tilt stick for safety; don’t expect that method to work on too many good players though.

You can also perform a walk-off Dair in two different ways. If you use the smash stick, hold your control stick towards the ledge and down at an angle, so Ike falls off the stage, then quickly rotate your control stick so it is facing straight down and tap down on the c-stick at the same time. If you performed the Dair immediately after walking off the stage, you should easily be able to double-jump and Aether back to the ledge. With the tilt stick it is much easier: just walk off the ledge and hit the c-stick down; you don’t have to worry about fast-falling.

The final way to use Dair that is effective for edge-guarding some recoveries below the stage, is to drop off and double-jump from the ledge and Dair. Literally just grab the ledge when your opponent is off-stage, and when the timing is right, tap the control stick back to drop off and then double-jump Dair in whatever way you see fit (jump button + A and down or control stick up + c-stick down). This works well against the vertical recoveries of many characters, as well as the multiple jumps of characters that can float/fly (except Meta Knight, be very careful about when you choose to do this against him).

~~~~~ Special Attacks ~~~~~
Eruption

[collapse=Hitbox Visual]




Note: The hitbox seen in the first image appears for the initial 3 frames of any Eruption that is not fully charged. The tiny hitbox near the bottom of the second image lingers for 5 frames after the first hitbox disappears, but only for an uncharged or partially charged Eruption. The last image is the hitbox of a fully charged Eruption, which remains unchanged for all 20 frames of the attack.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 30-37 (Uncharged) and 239-258 (Fully Charged)
Ends on Frame 58 (Uncharged) and 288 (Fully Charged)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 26-37% (Fully Charged)

Eruption is an attack that is similar to Dtilt in it’s uses (and lack of uses). It will deal 9% damage and has a fairly large hitbox uncharged. The hitbox does not change until it is fully charged, but the damage and knockback increases with every ‘whoosh’ sound you hear (there will be eight of them in total). Fully charged, the top of the explosion will deal the least damage at 26%, the middle will do 28%, and the largest hitbox at the bottom of the fire will do a whopping 37% damage; it should be noted that Ike will take 10% damage from a fully charged Eruption, but no damage from all earlier charge levels.

The primary use for Eruption is in edge-guarding. It has Super Armor frames (frames during which you cannot be affected by knockback) for 5 frames prior to the hitbox coming out, so if you time it correctly you can nullify any attack and immediately retaliate with the Eruption itself. Eruption is a terrible move to use if your opponent is waiting at a distance or has a projectile though, for pretty obvious reasons. In fact there is always a better option than using Eruption against a grounded opponent, it’s damage output uncharged is very low and charging it is risky.

It works best against recoveries that cannot snap to the ledge, similar to Dtilt. Unlike Dtilt, it can cover a large area vertically, which also makes it viable if you think your opponent will attack you from above upon returning to the stage, or hit you with their recovery move. Learning to time the Super Armor frames after charging is key to success at this.

If you manage to get a shield break on someone, charge your Eruption near them until you hear the seventh ‘whoosh’ sound (Ike will begin to flash rapidly) and then immediately release. This is referred to as a Flashing Eruption, and will cause more knockback than a fully charged Eruption. Obviously this, along with the fact that fully charging it will damage Ike by 10%, makes it much better to use on a shield break.

Quick Draw

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Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 19-29 (Uncharged, No Contact)
Ends on Frame 42 (Uncharged, No Contact) and 77-87 (Uncharged, After Contact)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 16% (Fully Charged)

Quick Draw (or QD) is almost completely useless as an attacking move; however, it is a useful tool for some other purposes if applied properly. It can be charged indefinitely and cannot be canceled once charging begins (you have to release the attack). Uncharged, it will travel a little further than the length of a Battlefield platform and deal 9% damage on contact. Fully charged, it will traverse almost all of Battlefield itself and do 16% if it hits. It is possible to KO with QD at percents that are not totally unreasonable, but it is not a reliable KO move by any means.

Because of the terrible ending lag after hitting someone, hitting a shield, or getting interrupted by a spot-dodge, it is heavily advised to not use QD as an attack. In rare occasions in can be used as a mix-up for a tech-chase, due to it’s ability to charge forever and release quickly, but in most cases there is a safer and more rewarding option.

QD can, however, be used to quickly move across the stage in several different fashions. If you just knocked an opponent off-stage but are not close to the ledge yourself, immediately loosing a QD to close the gap and prepare for an edge-guard can really help. Doing a full-hop and then an uncharged QD to land on a distant platform (Battlefield height) is great for covering distance and gaining height at the same time.

Landing on a platform from a QD can quickly lead into other attacks, because QD does not have very much landing lag as long as you do not fall for a long time before hitting the ground (try to skim the surface of the platform as close as you can while in the QD animation). Landing so that you slide to the opposite edge of the platform helps further eliminate landing lag, allowing you to then immediately use an Utilt, Jab, walk-off aerial attack like Fair or Nair, or instantly pratfall and Bair to attack an opponent below the platform. The key is to never hit your opponent or their shield with the QD itself.

Aether

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Note: There are many frames of the hitbox skipped in between these images; this is only to show the general area covered. The first image shows the initial hitbox that lasts only 1 frame. The second last image shows the hitbox that acts as a weak spike, and will linger until Ike touches the ground or grabs a ledge. The last image shows the hitbox that only appears if Ike lands on the ground, not if he grabs a ledge; this hitbox sends opponents upward at an angle.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-77
Ends on Frame 110 (Grounded)
Damage: ?

Aether, aside from being Ike’s primary recovery move, is also useful as an offensive move in some sparse situations. The hitbox breaks for a frame or two occasionally but lasts for a total duration of 59 frames from the first hit to the last. It has pretty bad landing lag, which can be avoided by grabbing a ledge while coming down. It can deal anywhere from 1% to over 20% damage depending on how long your opponent is caught in it and what sections of the hitbox affect them (see the hitbox visual). Another thing to note is that Aether provides Super Armor frames from frame 18-38 of the animation.

One interesting thing about Aether is that if you land with it on a slope of the stage, you will slide down the slope, the total slide distance varying greatly from stage to stage. This obviously means that on some stages, you can reduce the risk factor of landing on-stage with Aether by sliding back or retreating after landing. Some stages this works well on are the beach sections of Delfino Plaza, the second transformation of Frigate Orpheon, the first part of Halberd, some sections of Castle Siege, the small slope near the bow of the Rainbow Cruise ship, and the small slopes on Brinstar.

Aether can also be used in platform sharking to some extent. It can be difficult to pressure platforms that are out of short-hop and ground attack range, but Aether, if used sparingly and carefully, can solve this issue. Use Aether from the ground or after a short-hop to attack platforms like the top one on Battlefield, some of the higher ones on Delfino Plaza, and the middle Brinstar platform. It will easily punish spot-dodges or rolls and deal a good amount of damage. If you think your opponent may shield it, do the Aether near the edge of the platform so you can then move back a bit and land down on the stage, making it harder to punish.

Other uses for Aether are occasional edge-guarding and mild planking. Because of it’s enormous vertical reach, you can catch an opponent who is recovering high above the ledge with an Aether and then grab the ledge yourself on the way down so that you are safe even if you missed. While Ike is coming down with Aether, the hitbox will spike (see the hitbox visual), making it a great edge-guard move for characters who lack vertical recovery, like DK, Bowser and Luigi after he has used his second jump. Aether will only spike successfully if you grab the ledge however; the hitbox for landing on the stage will pop your opponent up into the air.

As for planking, it can be dangerous on many stages, but stages that have a slope under the ledge are relatively safe for this. Basically, on a stage like Battlefield or Smashville, drop off the ledge and move in towards the stage a bit, using Aether from under the stage but not past where the slope ends. On his way up, Ike will slide back out to where the ledge is and grab it again on his way down. This means you can have the initial hitboxes for Aether further in on the stage, and then retreat back afterwards. Along with dealing some extra damage to opponent’s who wander too close to the ledge, this can be used to force opponents to retreat, giving you room to get up after recovering. Keep in mind though that after grabbing the ledge 5 times consecutively with Aether, you will just fall past the ledge for an SD.

Counter

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[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike:
Effect on Frames 11-33
Ends on Frame 60
Damage: ?

Ike’s Counter is a very risky move to employ, and there is a better option for many of it’s conceivable uses. It will counter the opponent’s attack anywhere between frames 11 and 33, although frame 11 does not come fast enough for you to counter anything on reaction unless it is a very slow attack. It has pretty bad ending lag, and will deal 10% damage or more depending on how strong the countered attack was.

Since you cannot use this move on reaction for the vast majority of opponent’s attacks, you have to make hard reads if you want to connect with it, and then hope your opponent doesn’t read you back and punish. It is usually not worth it to use Counter against moves dealing moderate or weak damage (20% or less), since many of Ike’s other moves will do more damage and are safer. Counter can be used against some recoveries such as another Ike's, DK's, etc.

Obviously if a Ganondorf or Captain Falcon uses their punch, Counter away and watch them get knocked flying stronger than they would have done to you. Likewise if an opponent is charging a smash attack unwarily. Otherwise though, most uses of Counter are risky, situational, inconsistent or just not nearly as good as other options that Ike has available to him.

~~~~~ Throws ~~~~~
Pummel

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frame 5
Ends on Frame 25
Damage: 3%

Ike’s pummel is a great way to tack on some extra damage every time you grab your opponent. It will deal 3% damage fresh, and can safely be done a few times each grab after your opponent reaches 30-40%. Using your pummel will also refresh your other moves. Try to learn the timing of tapping A to pummel quickly, as opposed to just mashing the button; try it out in practice mode to see what rhythm allows Ike to pummel the fastest.

Forward Throw

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 5-6
Ends on Frame 24
Damage: 6%

Forward Throw (or Fthrow) has some uses at low and high percents, and is all-around very similar to Back Throw. This is Ike’s fastest throw to start and end, which is useful to know for doubles matches. It will do 6% damage fresh and could not possibly KO your opponent unless they were at ~800% and had a bad recovery. You can Fthrow almost all characters against a wall and re-grab them instantly until just over 100% damage.

Thankfully, Ike has other options to KO, and Fthrow’s primary uses are to string attacks at low percents and to get your opponent off-stage at high percents. Fthrow has no guaranteed follow-ups, but you can try following it up with another grab, an Nair or Usmash if you think they will spot-dodge, and a DA at middling to high percents. Fthrow is a good move in it's own right, but realistically you’ll want to use Back Throw more often. Fthrow once in awhile to deal an extra 6% if Back Throw gets stale.

Back Throw

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[/collapse]


Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frame 20
Ends on Frame 33
Damage: 6%

Back Throw (or Bthrow) is Ike’s best throw and definitely the throw you should be using most often during matches. There are only 13 frames between when you throw your opponent and when you are able to perform an action, and the implications of this are outlined fully in the section Following up Throws later in the guide. Bthrow will deal 6% damage when it is fresh and also cannot be used to KO, even though it is somewhat stronger than Fthrow.

Bthrow can do everything Fthrow can, but better. At low percents you can reach your opponent quicker to re-grab if they shield or punish with Jabs/Nair if they spot-dodge. DA is a great follow-up to Bthrow and is even guaranteed on some characters at certain percents (more on that later in the guide as well). Bthrow followed up with a DA or even just Bthrow by itself near the ledge are excellent ways to get your opponent off-stage and prepare for an edge-guard.

Up Throw

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Rating: :ike:
Hits on Frame 26
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 6%

Ike’s Up Throw (or Uthrow) is a very useless throw when compared with his others. It’s only viable use is to toss your opponents onto a platform above you (to set up for sharking) once Down Throw becomes too strong for that purpose. The problem with Uthrow is that it takes so long to end, following it up is very difficult. Really you shouldn’t be using this throw at all considering your other options.

Down Throw

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 35-39
Ends on Frame 58
Damage: 6%

Down Throw (or Dthrow) is a good throw that has definite uses at low percents. You should not use Dthrow in a doubles match with another opponent nearby, due to how long it takes the hitbox to come out and just how long it takes in general. Like all of Ike’s other throws, Dthrow also deals 6% damage, but it can be used to KO as early as 160% if it’s fresh on a stage with a low ceiling. This does not make it a reliable KO move at all, more a last-ditch one if you can’t hit with anything else.

Dthrow can be used at low percents to pop opponents up onto platforms above you so that you can then shark them with other attacks. Even without platforms, you can follow up Dthrow with an Nair, Uair or Usmash at low percents, particularly if your opponent air-dodges and you manage to read it. Be aware that Dthrow can be influenced by DI very easily, even at low percents, so do not try anything like Aether after it, because it is not at all guaranteed and will likely get you punished.

:248:

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Part I.V Advanced Technical Inputs and buffering

Ussi

You might be thinking, this is brawl! Tech skill doesn't exist! Well you're wrong, tech skill is needed, granted not at the degree melee did, but tech skill is needed. I'll talk about the few harder concepts of Ike that are really beneficial or can open new ways to play

Lets first talk about buffering, buffering is doing inputs early so that when the first frame of action is allowed, it is performed. There is a 10 frame buffer meaning you can input a command up to 10 frames before you get out of lag. this leads to out first and fore most important buffered input:

buffered turnaround jab. This is difficult in the sense that if you mess up, you do a ftilt or dash attack, meaning you get punished hard if you mess up. And you don't want to be slow with it either, that can be the difference between getting a hit and having your jab be powershielded

2nd on the list is SH retreating bair. This is basically the ultimate defense. It's impossible to punish Ike for this when bair hits the opponents shield, and powershielding doesn't help much still either as Ike is going away from the opponent making it too hard to punish.

the following now are less important but when you find your Ike game getting stale, pick these up to add a new dimension to your play.

When you get to the platform section Nysyarc worked very hard on, he will mention quick draw onto platforms. This is advanced in the sense you need to know the distance and timing of quick draw and the distance above the platform to get the ideal IASA landing. Its easy to play around with, hard to apply in a real match.

Last for now is a falling counter. Falling implies you are in the air. Now how this works is that, when the opponent is trying to force you to land into an attack, there is a point where you can counter and you fall into range by the time the counter frames start. Of course you need to know the spacing of the opponent's move in order to calculate perfectly when to start the counter. this works best on people charging an attack or MK's tornado trying to catch you from under yada yada


Part II: Offense

A. Getting Past Projectiles

Ussi *San and Niddo on Snake's nades*

Ike has a bit of trouble getting past projectiles in the learning stages due to the nature of his movement. But once you master it, you can breeze through projectiles pretty fluidly. The key to getting past projectiles is finding the pattern. Everyone has a different style of spamming but they is only so many ways you can use a projectile so find the pattern your opponent uses most. May take a stock to figure it out and such but its a learning experience.

The main way of dealing with projectiles is powershielding through them. Dash PS will keep the momentum of your dash so use it to your advantage if you're gonna slide into jab range. Learning the timing comes from experience and knowledge of how the projectile works. Projectiles have different properties so it'll take a while to learn them all.

Projectiles you should know how to PS: Falco's laser, Pit's arrow, Pikachu's jolt, Wolf's laser, TL's arrows and boomerang, Link's uncharged arrows and boomerang, ZSS's nB, ROB's Gyro and laser, (list subject to change due to me not remember all projectiles)

*insert guide to deal with Diddy's nanas* Little bit on nanas is smart diddys will see how you react to their banana game and counter your actions accordingly. So in order to go against that you have to play his game with bananas. Best way to learn this is to either play Diddy in some friendlies to get a hang of using bananas and apply it for Ike or turn on bananas as an item to mess around in friendlies. I can't really give specifics....

*Insert guide on Nades* This is probably the 2nd most annoying projectile to deal with. you can space fairs to not get his by shield nades.... i'm not good at explaining this..

Originally Posted by Nidtendofreak
For Snake's nade: get as good as the Snake at knowing how long the grenades have been out. I find it goes like this: One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand, four-onethousanBOOM. You have to figure out your own timing though, and be able to keep track of two nades + Snake himself.
Diddy Kong is a bit harder, and generally a bit more dependent on the stage.
Originally Posted by san3711
Translation: Snake's nade lasts for 4 seconds. I find it easiest to instathrow towards snake just to give him some problems. Ike can insta throw from the ground. (Jump +throw instantly). Pressuring snake's shield and spacing with long range and quick intercepts are good ideas (spacing yourself so you don't hit any nades)

B. When and How to Approach characters

Ussi

Fair – You always want to space fair to the maximum range and FF it. If you don’t you’ll find yourself being grabbed by the likes of Sheik and Pikachu when you can actually jab them before they reach you if you FF it. Now then, avoid throwing fair out so much, it’s a situational approach. It’s easily countered by dash shield of fast runners.. . Instead you’ll find yourself using…

Nair – this may be the shortest range attack Ike has but it has the smallest landing lag of any aerial Ike has. Spacing Nair will avoid being shield grabbed in fact, maybe people tend to shield grab nair even if you space it so punish their folly attempt. Characters that cannot shield grab nair (before a jab comes out) when timed right are: ZSS, Samus, and Yoshi. Zelda and Olimar are an iffy cause you have to be frame perfect with landing nair. DK, DDD, and Charizard have a very long shieldgrabs and will grab you out of nair (DK is possible to space but it hard to do consistently in a match).

Uair- this is an unorthodox approach but the main purpose is to shield stab by hitting a character’s head which means it only works on tall/big characters. Uair will hit pretty low behind Ike in the beginning and is impossible to see coming by its animation.

Dash Shield- a very popular universal approach. Like with Projectiles, you can time a powershield for attacks too. Jab is the best option OoS doing this.

SHAD- another universal approach. Great for avoiding attacks and getting behind the foe. Remember to buffer a jab or shield.

Dash Attack- a lol surprise attack

The next are what I think could be experimented but I guess left to others to decide

Reverse SHAD- basically turning around before doing a SHAD to avoid buffering an a turnaround and to stall the SHAD

RAR bair- not too successful of an approach, but mix it up with reserve SHAD to fool people XD also note you can do a jump canceled usmash while turning around

Stuff in Yellow are probably not viable but up as an idea
Also when to approach.. You want to avoid approach because you have too but instead approach cause you want to. Take the momentum into your hands not follow your opponents. Approaching isn't limited to only attacks, you can feint to trick you opponent. You always have to be unpredictable otherwise you'll be smacked out of your approach

C. Platform Game

Nysyarc
Platforms And You
<3 <3 <3
A Sub-Guide to Ike’s Platform Game
Written by Nysyarc

Ike is a character that relies heavily on effective use of stage gimmicks for his success. Stages like Final Destination are not to his liking because he has nothing to use to his advantage besides bare, flat terrain. One aspect of stages that Ike is particularly good at making use of is platforms.

There are many different types of platforms in the game, and they can easily be categorized by their height in relation to the ground level of the stage. Ike has many ways to abuse platforms, both from underneath them and on top of them. Quick Draw, although not suggested to be used as an attack, can be used as a tool to move quickly and set-up for other attacks involving platforms.

Here is an outline of the different sections that will be covered in this part of the Ike Guide:

- Types of Platforms
- Platform Sharking
- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs
- Using Quick Draw

I suggest that you read the sections in order, since the first section goes over the definitions of different platform types I’ll be using for the rest of the guide. Additionally, the last section assumes that you already understand elements discussed in the second and third sections, so it’s best to read it all in order. Now, onto the guide!

------ Types of Platforms ------
The three categories that I have used to define the different types of platforms in the game are Low Platforms, Middle Platforms and High Platforms. Pretty straightforward, but they are kind of loosely defined. I’ll be using the terms low, middle and high throughout the rest of the guide to refer to platforms on different stages, so I’ll go over what my definitions of those heights are.

Low Platforms

A low platform is generally any platform that Ike’s grounded attacks like Utilt and Usmash can reach through. This means any of Ike’s aerials can also easily contact opponent’s on top of a low platform when you short-hop. A single full-hop will allow you to land on a low platform.

Low platforms are the easiest to cover from the ground simply because they are so close to the ground. If an opponent is on a low platform above you, there are plenty of options at your disposal for pressuring them and trying to keep them there. Basically if platforms are all your friends, these are your BFFs. So fight for them.

Stages with Low Platforms:

Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

Middle Platforms

A middle platform is pretty loosely defined. Often times your Utilt and Usmash can just barely reach though it, but it is too high to do a full-hop Bair and have it auto-cancel upon landing. That is sort of the minimum height requirement for a middle platform: you can often full-hop to land on it, but a Bair used immediately as you start the jump will not auto-cancel upon landing, like it will on a low platform.

The maximum height of a middle platform can be pretty simply defined though: if a full-hop Uair or Nair cannot reach through a platform, it cannot be considered a middle platform. This means using full-hop aerials is your best bet for pressuring a middle platform, and although this is not as fast or easy as pressuring a low platform, it is still doable.

Stages with Middle Platforms:

Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Smashville
Pictochat
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

High Platforms

A high platform is any platform that requires you to do your double-jump in order for one of Ike’s attacks to reach it. Fortunately, there are not many high platforms in the game, so you don’t have to worry too much about trying to pressure opponents on one. High platforms do have their uses to Ike though, so don’t discount them entirely.

Aether is perfect for reaching them, and being on top of one gives you plenty of space to work with if you want to pratfall or walk-off. A high platform on a stage also means you can use Ike’s great vertical KO power to tip the odds in your favor for a difficult MU where your opponent does not have vertical KO power. Bait your opponent onto the platform with you and even Dthrow can become a viable KO move.

Stages with High Platforms:

Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise

------ Platform Sharking ------
When we use the term ‘platform sharking’, all we really mean is attacking an opponent who is standing on a platform from below the platform. Basically every character in the game is completely helpless if they are on a platform above you. Ike has a lot of great moves that he can use to shark platforms and pressure his opponents, which is the biggest reason he has a great all-around platform game.

Grounded Sharking Moves

Ike has three moves that he can use from the ground to hit opponents that are standing on a low platform. These moves are Utilt, Usmash, and Fsmash. Each has it’s uses in different situations and you should learn to identify what situations are best for which move. Using a grounded move to pressure an opponent on a low platform is not always the best option either, so I will now go over some viable situations you can use them in.

If your opponent lands hard on a platform and fails to tech the landing, you have several options if you are nearby. Your opponent has a few different things that they can do: they can stand up normally in place, roll to either side, or attack to get up. If your opponent has a low damage % on them at the time, it is probably best to dash beneath them on the platform and wait for their action, then use an Utilt to cover most of the platform.

If they are at a high damage % however, it is a better idea to slide an Usmash under the platform and charge it, waiting for them to perform a get-up action. As soon as their invincibility frames end, release the charge and send them to their doom. Make sure to charge the Usmash directly under the center of the platform so as to cover it entirely with the hitbox. It is important to be ready for your opponent to land on a platform and to always remain beneath them to pressure their return to the stage.

Utilt is a great option for punishing spot-dodges and rolls on a low platform, because unlike Usmash and Fsmash, it’s hitbox lingers above the platform for many frames. If your opponent likes to spot-dodge and you think that they will, and you are below them, throw out an Utilt or two to pressure them and catch them after the spot-dodge. Same for rolling, except Utilt is not able to cover the whole length of many platforms, so you have to make a hard read on which direction they will roll.

If your opponent favors holding their shield on while on a platform, this is where Usmash comes in handy, especially if they are at a high %. There are two frames of the hitbox for Usmash that will perfectly poke underneath a semi-worn shield on a low platform. Make sure your opponent is not directly above you when you use the Usmash, but about half the length of your sword off to either side. If their shield is worn enough, Usmash will poke through and often surprise them, so they will not be prepared to DI.

Another thing Usmash is great for is setting up for a tech chase on the ground if your opponent is shielding on a platform. The shield push from Usmash will often knock your opponent off the platform is it does not poke through, which means they are then in the same situation of having the four get-up options, except on the ground. More often than not, sliding a little towards them and charging another Usmash is the best option here because they won’t be expecting it and it covers many of their options. Otherwise, normal rules for a tech chase apply, read them and punish with Jabs.

What about Fsmash though? It is very rare that the opportunity to Fsmash an opponent on a platform presents itself, but it is very satisfying and can result in as early KO. Your opponent must be directly above you for it to connect, and the only time you should do it is if your opponent fails a tech and you are already underneath them, or if you make a read on a spot-dodge/roll. Be careful because it is much easier for them to punish a whiffed Fsmash than an Utilt or an Usmash. If you connect though, the hitbox of Fsmash that hits them will send them almost perfectly horizontal, thus KOing very early.

That is really all you need to know about Ike’s ground options for pressuring platforms. Sliding Usmashes are probably his best ground sharking move, although it is arguable. All-around though, Ike’s aerials are much better suited for sharking and you will be using them much more often, so let’s move right along.

Aerial Sharking Moves

All of Ike’s aerials except Dair can technically be used for sharking platforms of any height, although Nair and Uair are often the best choices. Aerials are usually a better way to platform shark because they can be used more quickly in succession, but Ike’s aerials have other benefits that make them even more ideal for preying on an opponent who is trapped above you.

One of the best ways of pressuring an opponent on a low platform is to repeatedly short-hop and Nair, followed by fast-falling back down so you can do it again very quickly. The fact that Nair’s hitbox can poke shields, surrounds a large area and lingers makes this a great way of covering many of your opponent’s options. Additionally, if they do manage to reach the ground, you can Jab or perform a defensive maneuver quickly after landing an Nair.

A short-hop Bair that auto-cancels can also hit through a low platform and, because of it’s speed, is excellent for punishing dodges and missed techs. Bair will also occasionally poke through a shield on a low platform, but it’s hitbox is too large for this to be relied upon. The great thing about sharking with Bair is that it can also KO or send your opponent’s off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. The only other sharking move capable of this is Fsmash, but Bair is a much better move all-around.

Short-hopping and using an Uair to shark low platforms is also sometimes a good idea, but Uair is best used to shark middle and high platforms. The hitbox of Uair easily covers all of most platforms in the game, and lingers for so long that it is ideal for punishing dodges. It is also a great vertical KO move and has a lot of shield push if they manage to block it, making it sort of like an aerial Usmash for middle and high platforms.

The problem with using Uair to shark low platforms is simply that it has more landing lag than Nair and an auto-canceled Bair, but like I said, it’s not always a bad idea. Uair does cover more of a platform for a longer period of time than either Nair or Bair, so it works great if you think your opponent will roll or spot-dodge. Uair can also effectively cover all of an opponent’s get-up options after a missed tech if you time it right.

Fair is not as commonly used for sharking because it is sort of like a less effective version of each other aerial option. It has great horizontal range and so is perfect if your opponent is getting up and none of your other aerials would reach in time to punish. However, it’s hitbox does not last very long like Uair, it is not fast to come out like Bair, and it does not have minimal landing lag like Nair.

It is important to mix up the different platform sharking options you have available to you, because each has it’s own unique uses. Nair is best used at low percents on low platforms in order to string into other attacks and keep your opponent above the platform for further sharking. Uair is great to cover options and KO on stages with platforms and a low ceiling like Halberd. Bair is perfect for punishing on reaction and getting your opponent off-stage to set up for an edge guard.

You don’t want to use Nair to shark high platforms, because it takes a long time to execute in the air and if you whiff it, you will be left vulnerable. Bair is likely your best bet for sharking a high platform since you can double-jump up, wait for a spot-dodge or roll and then punish with the Bair. Uair also works fine for covering high platforms since you can then fall back down and not have any landing lag, unlike trying to Uair a low platform.

Middle platforms can be effectively sharked using any of your aerials, although Nair is still a bit less favorable than Uair or Bair. Refrain from using Fair when an opponent is on a platform unless you are too far away to reach with a different aerial and you do not think there is time to get any closer before attacking. Fair has it’s uses in other areas of combat, but as a sharking move it is inferior to your other options.

General Sharking Strategy

One very important thing to realize about Ike is that he is in a much stronger and more advantageous position when he is beneath his opponents. Ike has plenty of powerful overhead attacks and is all-around excellent at pressuring airborne opponents and covering platforms. However, you must remain aware of this throughout every battle and constantly try to stay grounded below your opponents.

Any stage that has a platform can be used to your advantage if you play smartly. If you have knocked your opponent into the air and they are returning to the stage, stay beneath them at ground level to try and bait them into landing on a platform. As soon as they do, make like a shark and be ruthless. Battlefield is an excellent stage for this because it is very difficult to safely get past the platforms when falling from up above. Predict your opponent’s downward path and be ready to jump on them the moment their feet touch ground or a platform.

Using attack specifically to set up sharking is also a good idea at low percents. For example, between 20 - 50%, your Dthrow is an excellent way to pop opponents up just above a low platform so you can pressure their return. Dthrow is better for this than Uthrow because you are able to use an aerial attack sooner afterwards. Generally pressuring an opponent on the ground with Nairs and Jabs may cause them to lose their nerve and jump over you or onto a platform, giving you your opportunity.

Always be aware of how much damage your opponent has when considering what move to use for sharking in different situations. Bair, Usmash and Uair are better at higher percents when they may KO, while Utilt and Nair can be used to string other attacks and continue sharking at low percents. Also be wary of some other characters who are good at sharking such as Marth and Donkey Kong; make sure you keep them above or beside you as often as possible.

For high platforms and some middle platforms, Aether is a viable option for sharking. It comes out relatively quick and will easily punish any spot dodges or rolls on a platform due to it’s long hitbox. You have the option of landing on the platform or retreating your Aether some to land back on ground level as well, to either add more damage if you connected or escape punishment if they shielded your attempt.

That’s really all there is to know about platform sharking. Just always remember the basic principles: stay beneath your opponent at all times while they are airborne, be aware of ways to set-up for sharking at low percents, and pay attention to different situations and what moves are best used for those situations.

---- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs ----
It’s all well and good when you’re beneath your opponent as Ike, but what happens when you’re the one on the platform? Well, fortunately Ike has several ways to attack from on top of a platform in order to give himself space to get grounded again. Pratfalling is simply ducking straight through the platform, while a walk-off is just that, walking off the side of the platform.

Pratfall Options

Typically, the best time to pratfall is from a middle or high platform, since fast-falling through a low platform will make it impossible for any of your aerials’ hitboxes to emerge save Bair. That said, there are times when pratfalling a low platform is a good idea. The key thing to remember when pratfalling and attacking is that the C-stick is your friend. This is where having the Tilt Stick setting (see the Control Schemes section of the guide) comes in handy for using Nairs.

Bair is arguably the best move you have on a pratfall for many reasons. As I’ve already mentioned, you can fast-fall through a low platform and instantly Bair to hit opponents on the ground below you. It is very fast and can be used to punish dodges or other actions. The hitbox of Bair when used on a pratfall will also hit other opponents who were on the platform with you, making it a great hit-and-run move to put yourself below them and apply pressure simultaneously.

A great option for pratfalling middle platforms is Nair because it’s hitbox will surround you as you fall, and it has minimal landing lag. Using Nair through a high platform is not suggested unless you fast-fall, because it will take some time to end in the air. You can pratfall through a low platform and then immediately double jump and Nair to either land back on the platform very quickly after Nair’s hitbox emerges, or land on the ground after pressuring the whole platform.

Your Uair is excellent for use when pratfalling a high or middle platform if your opponent is on the platform with you and you think they will try to pratfall as well. As long as you keep your spacing away from them, Uair will outrange many aerials. Try to use it with your back to them, since Uair’s hitbox lasts longer behind Ike, so you can punish them if they air-dodge. If your Uair connects, it will put them back up above the platform so you can shark them.

Fast-falling a pratfall on any platform and then double-jumping and using Uair to cover the platform is a great idea as well if your opponent shared the platform with you. This is also an excellent way to pressure an opponent’s return to the stage from above. Stand on a platform below them and make like you’re not planning to move, then when they fall closer, pratfall, double jump and Uair to catch them as they land.

For platforms that overhang the ledge on a stage, you can use a pratfall Dair to spike your opponents. Some stages that are great for this are Smashville, Frigate Orpheon (the first transformation), Delfino Plaza (one of the main transformations), Brinstar, and Norfair. It allows you to line up where you think they will jump or use their recovery, and then drop down and spike at the perfect time from straight above.

Pratfalling and using Fair in one direction while retreating in the opposite direction is great if your opponent is not directly beneath you. This can’t be done on low platforms though, because Fair’s hitbox will not have time to emerge and you won’t be able to retreat far enough before landing. If your opponent is on the same platform as you then you should stick with pratfall Bairs and double jump Nairs/Uairs.

Walk-Off Options

Using aerials as you walk off a platform is a good tactic that can often catch opponents off-guard. While pratfall aerials are usually more effective when done from higher platforms, walk-offs tend to be best used off of lower platforms. The difference is that when you walk-off, you are not instantly losing height at a set speed, so all of your aerial attacks have time for the hitboxes to fully emerge. Also, you have better horizontal control from a walk-off at a low height.

Unlike for sharking and pratfalls, Fair is a very good attack to use when walking off a platform. If your opponent is on the ground a good distance away, a walk-off Fair can often surprise them with it’s range. You can walk off and the pull back on the control stick while using the C-stick to Fair so you retreat in case it is whiffed. Walking off a high platform and fast-falling an Fair is decent but not much different from pratfalling.

Walk-off Nairs from low platforms are very effective, and is a good way to approach from a platform at low percent since Nair’s hitbox will end before it loops behind you, allowing you to Jab your opponent sooner as a follow-up. Like Fair, using the C-stick to Nair offers you more control over your aerial movement for spacing, which is mostly what makes walk-offs better than pratfalls for Fair and Nair.

Again, walking-off a high platform with Nair is very similar to pratfalling and using it, but there are exceptions on stages like Battlefield and Norfair, where you can walk off one of the top platforms onto a lower one. Hitting your opponent with Nair on a lower platform by walking off a higher one can then set up for Jabs, a pratfall Bair or sharking at low percents if you can get below the platform after popping them up into the air.

Walk-off Uairs are viable as a way of poking through an opponent’s shield. Walking off a low platform and using an Uair when a tall character is holding their shield on nearby is perfect for poking through and getting a KO at high percents. It works even better if the other player is standing under the platform, because Uair’s last hitbox comes out behind Ike, so you can pull back the control stick after walking off to poke them with that last bit.

Using Bair from a walk-off is not much different from pratfalling and using Bair except that you will have more horizontal control on the way down. Bair will still hit opponents on the platform you walked off and on the ground if done from a low platform. The trouble with walk-off Bairs is that the hitbox is primarily behind you, so it is not nearly as good as Nair or Fair for approaching off of a platform.

General Pratfall/Walk-Off Strategy

Obviously using attacks while pratfalling and walking off platforms is not always your best option for getting down. Sometimes it’s better not to risk the landing lag and just air-dodge on your way down instead. If your opponent is not underneath the platform you are on, it is often safe to do a walk-off aerial, and if they are beneath you, a pratfall Bair will often work as long as you time it right.

Just remember all of your different options and pay attention to the different situations you are in throughout the battle. Being aware of your different options is the first step towards being able to effectively choose the best options in real-time. Only through experimenting with different options will you be able to determine for yourself what the best ones are, and when to use them.

Keep in mind too that being above an opponent is Ike’s weakest position, so if you find yourself on a platform with your opponent below, you’ll need to think quickly. The fact that Ike has several effective options for returning to the ground can make it tricky to choose the best one for each situation; just keep in mind that it’s more important to get yourself to the ground as quickly as possible than it is to attack in the most effective way while doing it.

------ Using Quick Draw ------
Every time you use Quick Draw with an opponent near your destination it is a gamble, because you don’t want to whiff the attack. If used with discretion, QD can be a great tool for movement, especially with the help of platforms. The main thing you always have to keep in mind, is that you never want to hit your opponent with QD. To give you an idea of how easy to punish QD is, if a Captain Falcon power-shields it and reacts immediately, he can punish it with a Falcon Punch.

Proper Quick Draw Use

So now that I’ve hopefully deterred you from ever wanting to use QD as an approaching attack, let’s go over how you should use it instead. If you use a QD in the air but very close to the ground, it doesn’t have much landing lag as long as you don’t hit anything. Essentially there is no difference between the ending lag of a grounded QD versus an aerial one close to the ground, but you don’t want to use it too high off the ground.

One thing that allows QD to end sooner though, is using it close to the ground and then landing so that you slide right to the edge of the stage or a platform. This is great for quickly getting in position for an edge-hog on the stage, and also for quickly getting onto a distant platform. When using QD, you should always have several follow-up options in mind; never commit yourself to one follow-up, but never QD aimlessly either. You should only use QD to get onto low platforms that you could reach with a single full-hop.

QD onto a platform is all about the follow-ups and how you use them. If your opponent is in the air near you when you land, you can Jab very quickly to try and catch them off guard. Immediately using an Utilt can catch your opponent after an air-dodge if they are returning to the stage above the platform, since the speed of the QD approach will often throw off your opponent.

Another great way to punish an air-dodge or an aerial attack is to immediately slide an Usmash in the opposite direction. This depends on how well you know what your opponent will do in the situation. They are falling from above, you QD to the edge of a platform beneath them, pivot and slide an Usmash so that the back end will hit them if they decide to try and attack you. This is assuming, again, that they are thrown off by the suddenness of the QD approach, which many players will be if they are not used to it.

Immediately jumping and using an aerial attack is also a good option at your discretion, particularly a retreated Nair or Fair if your opponent is close. What move you use is really dependent on the situation, since essentially the only difference between normally being near your opponent and using QD to approach, is that it may surprise them or cause them to do something that is punishable.

Obviously you can apply what you know about pratfalling and walk-offs here as well. Using QD onto a platform and then immediately doing a pratfall Bair is excellent for attacking opponents under the platform. If you find yourself beneath a platform with an opponent, you can even jump away, turn and QD onto the platform above and them pratfall Bair for an unexpected approach.

Stringing the landing of QD into a walk-off is excellent for a fast edge-guard on stages with platforms near the ledge like Battlefield. If you just hit your opponent off-stage on the other side of the screen, full-hop and QD onto a platform in pursuit of them and then walk-off Fair, Dair or Uair to edge-guard based on where they are when you arrive. A walk-off Dair towards the ledge from a Battlefield platform will spike right at the ledge, which is perfect for recoveries that do not snap to the ledge or for plankers.

Obviously it works the other way as well, by using QD onto a platform over the stage you can then walk-off and use an attack like Nair to string into other options. It is a great way to approach quickly, but take care not to do it too often. The key is to keep the element of surprise fresh and only pull out the QD to a platform approach when your opponent will be caught off-guard by it.

Quick Draw Stage Compatibility

Obviously not all stages with platforms are great for using QD onto them. Some have platforms that are too high or not large enough, but many will work just fine. Battlefield is the perfect stage for practicing the timing and spacing involved with doing the maneuver properly. A full-hop will get you the perfect height to land on one of the lower BF platforms, and then another full-hop from their can you to the top one.

Smashville’s platform is possible to QD to from a full-hop, but it requires more precise timing because it is higher than the low platforms on BF. It is sometimes beneficial to QD out to the platform when it is over the ledge of the stage, for example to quickly string into a pratfall Dair, but it is very risky. Practice doing QD to the Smashville platform at different distances and while it is moving in different directions to accustom yourself to the timing and spacing required.

The platform on Yoshi’s Island is also tricky because it tilts from side to side. If you full-hop from one of the higher points of the main stage you can QD to the platform when it is perfectly straight. You cannot full-hop and QD to the platform if it tilted away from you even slightly, but you can if it is tilted towards you. Be very careful not to hit one of the Shy Guys with your QD, because it will leave you helpless the same as if you hit your opponent.

The platforms on the main transitions of Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 are easy to QD onto from a full-hop, but make sure you space it correctly, since they are not as wide as a Battlefield platform. There are some other platforms during the other transitions that you can QD to out of a full-hop, such as the one on the right during the fire transition of Pokemon Stadium 1. Experiment with all the different transitions so you get used to the various platforms.

Lylat Cruise is a very tricky stage for this maneuver, and there are only certain ways you can safely do it. Never attempt to full-hop QD to the left or right platforms coming from the middle of the stage; they are both slanted outwards, so you will fly right through them and possibly fall all the way to an SD. You can QD to them from the outside though, by full-hopping out away from the stage and using QD back towards them. You can also full-hop QD to the center platform, but be wary of the stage tilting; even a slight tilt can throw off the height enough to mess you up.

Halberd is decent for doing the QD maneuver, and it works on both transformations of the stage. On the first, it is best to do your full-hop from the middle part of one of the slopes on the main stage so you have just enough height. On this stage, the technique is best used for mobility, especially on the second transformation. If you want to cross the stage quickly, full-hop forward and QD onto the platform; it will allow you to gain distance and height much faster than just dashing along the ground, which is great for chasing an opponent you just hit up and away.

Delfino Plaza is a haven for this technique because of all it’s varying platforms. There is one transition with two platforms off to either side that overhang the ledge and a single long platform way up high, and it is important to note that the two side platforms in this transition are too high to full-hop and QD too. There is a similar transition however with two side platforms that are slanted inwards, and this one is perfect to full-hop QD to the platforms and then pratfall Dair for an edge-gaurd.

One transition of Delfino has only two platforms: the one on the right will be slightly higher than the one on the left. During this transition you can full-hop QD to the left side platform, and then short-hop QD to the right platform from there. During the transition with two centered platforms that are both very long (the higher one will slant down at the edges), you can full-hop QD to the first platform from the ground and then full-hop QD to the higher one from there.

Be careful when trying full-hop QDs on the first transition of Castle Siege, because the different ground level heights can mess you up. During the second transition you can full-hop QD to the lowest platform then reach the higher one from there. It really isn’t beneficial or possible in a practical way to QD onto the large canopies in the second transition, so don’t bother with those.

Frigate Orpheon’s first transition has plenty of ways that you can use the full-hop QD. You can do it to get onto the platform on the left of the stage, which is an overhang and thus great for edge-guarding. A full-hop QD will also get you perfectly onto the right platform from the main stage when it is raised up, and from the right platform onto the main stage when it is lowered. The technique is not as useful during the second transition of the stage however, since you have to be standing on one of the stage slopes to get the best height for a full-hop QD, but you’re practically under the platform at that point.

If Delfino Plaza is a haven for platform lovers, then Norfair is heaven. The platforms are all about the exact same height from each other as Battlefield platforms, which makes them perfect to full-hop QD to. On top of that, you can grab all of their outer ledges, so you can short-hop QD under each platform from the middle of the stage and grab the outer ledge. This can be very confusing and difficult to track for your opponent if you mix up your options well. Just make sure to practice so you don’t make any costly mistakes in a real game.

Jungle Japes is interesting for this technique. From the main stage in the center, you can full-hop QD to the platform above you (although it is relatively high like the Smashville platform) or short-hop QD to either of the outer platforms. Then from the outer platforms you can full-hop QD onto the top platform in the middle. You can also use QD in other ways; for example if you are hanging on the outside ledge of one of the outer platforms, you can drop down, double jump under the platform and immediately QD to land on the main stage. If you QD too late you will just grab the ledge of the main stage, so practice the timing until you can land on the stage consistently.

And finally we come to Brinstar, which is kind of risky for QD shenanigans. You can full-hop QD to the right side platform from the highest point of the main stage and the slopes around it, but watch your spacing carefully because it is a narrow platform. From there you can then perfectly full-hop QD to the highest platform. From the same high point on the main stage, you can also full-hop QD to the leftmost platform, and both side platforms are great overhangs for edge-guarding.

You guys don't actually have to read that wall of text if you don't want to; but if you do and you can think of anything I may have missed just let me know.

:034:


D. Edgeguarding

San


Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I remember typing about this a long time ago. Meh I'll still write somethin.

Interception

Ike has range, and a lot of it. Therefore, Ike does not need to go far from the stage in order to edgeguard. MK is immune to most of these. Against MK, one must rely on well timed bair and uair(facing away)

1. When you and the opponent are in the air, above the stage

Best move: full hop fair
Mixups: bair, uair

If the opponent is in the air above the stage, you can safely full hop + fair most characters in the game. Well spaced, all they can do is avoid it or air dodge. If they air dodge and not fast fall a well spaced fair, you can fast fall at the end, land, and punish the air dodge with jabs or a grab. Bair can be used as long as the second jump is retreating. Uair can be used as long as you're facing away from the opponent. You can full hop and fast fall all these aerials.

2. When you're on land, on the edge of the stage, opponent above.

Best moves: jab, ftilt, dash attack
Mixups: hop+eruption, retreating aerials

Ftilt is one of the best moves you can do near the ledge because of its amazing range, as well as its ability to be tilted in 3 directions, upwards, straight, and downwards. Not many characters have options to it other than to get away, especially when timed/spaced correctly. Jab is useful just for the amount of hurt the opponent will be in if he gets hit. If he gets hit, then you can time many more jabs until they eventually escape, possibly ending with the full jab combo.

I added dash attack for its ability to be used from a variety of distances away from the ledge. It's range covers half of BF, which is amazing. This is used to punish opponents who get too close to the ledge, within dash attack's range. This makes it effective to punish people who like to hop from the ledge. It also hits some of the cast while they hang on the ledge. If you hit with dash attack, it's not hard to follow up with downwards ftilt or a walk off aerial.

Double jump + eruption is a cool mixup if you think they're trying to get onstage as much as possible. It's safer in this situation because they can't punish as well if you miss. Jumping covers more area, so it's hard for opponents to go above you. Retreated aerials also work fairly well in this respect, since you have very small risk and a nice reward, where they usually get knocked offstage. If they shield near the edge, almost all of your moves will knock them away again.

3. Opponent is below stage-level

Best moves:
On land: quickly grab the ledge, walk off dair, spaced aerials. Dash attack(falco)
In the air(with double jump): any aerial to your discretion. Dair and fair usually work best.

Most of the time, if you feel you can grab the edge and get an advantage (the opponent has to go to the stage or he gets gimped), simply grabbing the edge is your best bet. if they land on stage, it's your chance to hit them with any aerial, if you can. If you grab the ledge, and quickly let go, you still have invinciblity for a short time, allowing you to drop and reverse aether if it seems appropriate.

Against falco, dash attack is a viable move to use here, because it messes up his double jump a lot if he jumps from underneath the stage.

If you have attack stick, walk off dair with cstick is not bad. If you time it well, yet miss, you can still aether to either the ledge or the stage. Walk off dair, you can easily get a spike, or the non sweet spot hit because of its long disjoint. If you walk off and fair, you have no choice but to grab the ledge, so if you miss, it's VERY dangerous.

E. Dealing with Ledge hangers

Foodies
[collapse=refined rough draft edited by Ussi]

1. Stand an appropriate distance away – Depending on what character you are facing, your distance will be closer or farther from the ledge, as each character has a different get-up attack range. For example, the space animals’ (Fox/Falco/Wolf) get-up attack range (under 100% at least) cover a lot more distance compared to a character such as Jigglypuff. This means you should also look at what % your opponent is at to position yourself correctly. Most people do not actually use the get-up attack too much, as it is easily punished on block, but be aware that they have the option. You also do not want to be too close to the ledge, since even if you shield an attack, you might be pushed off the stage yourself. [maybe should mention ledgedropped attacks too, though they usually have same range as a get-up attack]

1a. Look at %s – After 100%, all characters’ get-up attacks change, typically becoming slower and stronger. Also, the higher the percent someone is, the longer it takes for them to normal get-up and roll from the ledge. This means they have more invincibility frames, but also more vulnerability frames. [Jump speed is the same?]

2. Attacking – If your opponent stays too long on the ledge, their invincibility frames will run out, and you have the option of hitting them. Yay.


Fair – The best option and anti-planking move ever. Nothing but very long ledge attacks (And sliding aether -_-.. few more exceptions but meh) can ever dream to counter a fair on the ledge. Its best to time to hit with the tip of fair just when the invincibility frames should end, hard to time but it'll get people who don't let go of the ledge right away. It also destroys ledge rolls with its range and those trying to plank can't hit you back with any aerial.

Dtilt – Spiiike! The fastest move that will probably kill if it hits. Not the best option at all as the range it has doesn't protect you. It'll work on those who have a habit to drop the ledge to do an aerial of the ledge.

Ftilt (angled down) – This option is pretty beast, but risky. It puts the pressure of being unsafe on the ledge there with more range than dtilt and if they get on stage and shield the hit, it pushes them back. best option against those trying to ledge drop to an aerial.

Fsmash – Lolfsmash. The startup time alone allows your opponent to react and do something to avoid it; if you miss you are likely to get punished as well. You can charge it for mindgames, but it’s not likely to hit anyway. Those who are ledge attack happy will be at dismay when you stand a pixel out of their range and fsmash their lag. but that requires you to know their character better than them lolol.

Usmash (back end) –a nice option as the back end has less lag then ftilt. Careful on who you use it on though. Its the best option when you expect them to ledge jump to get away. But if they don't do that, at least usmash can still hit in more areas like those staying on the ledge.


3. Waiting – Even if your opponent’s invincibility frames run out, sometimes it is better do not hit them, as they can be timing their get-up just as you attempt to hit them. Character’s options are more limited on the ledge, so you can react to what they do.

Sort of related side note – Characters that have recovery moves that auto-sweetspot the edge (Marth comes to mind) will get landing lag if they land on the stage (without using an aerial) after sweetspotting the edge. You can get a free attack if they forget to cancel their lag. [People who are good would always cancel it though]

-Jump speed does also decrease with increased %.
-Ftilt has longer range than Dtilt, and can outspace some ledge getup attacks.
-Got a list of characters dash attack can hit while opponent is on the ledge. For those too lazy to memorize the list, the general rule is if the character's head is above the ledge, a dash attack can usually hit them. The dash attack must also be spaced properly or else it won't hit.
List Show

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
ZSS
ICs
MK
DDD
Olimar
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
G&W
[/collapse]
F. Following Up Your Moves

Foodies on jab canceling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodies View Post
Intro: Jab is Ike’s best move, and he arguably has one of the best jabs in the game. If you hold down the A button, Ike will do the standard 3-jab combo if the opponent is in range. But that is boring; and no one can call themselves an Ike main if they do not utilize the awesome technique that is called JAB CANCELING.

Side note: If the opponent is not in range of the next hit when you hold down the A button, the combo resets back to the first jab, possibly leading into a combat walk.

What is it?: Jab canceling is what it sounds like, stopping the jab combo to do some other move. It’s best to cancel after jab 1 since people can DI out of jab2 cancels more easily.

How to do it:

Originally Posted by Nysyarc
Basically you just crouch (tap the control stick down) at a certain point after using the first or second Jab and it resets back to the first Jab again. You have to time it right though; if you crouch too early it will just use the next Jab in the sequence, while crouching too late obviously means it will be slower/easier to escape.
Second method:

Originally Posted by Mr. Doom
I recently found out an easy way to jab cancel. I just hold diagonally backwards (meaning, opposite the direction Ike is facing) and jab with the attack button.
What you can cancel into: Depending on your opponent’s reaction and position after getting jabbed, there are various followups. You have to judge if it is better to cancel into something or just simply finish the combo. Technically, you can cancel into anything, but some moves are obviously better and more used than others.

Jab – The most basic and probably the best option. Jab1>jab1 is a true combo if done properly (need to verify), and is basically free damage for you. Use it.

Grab – This is useful if your opponent tends to shield while getting jabbed, or if you jab a shield. Instead of continuing the combo, just cancel into a grab to beat the shield. Jab>grab usually does less damage overall than a full jab combo; however, a throw can set up for edgeguarding or juggling.

Bair - Canceling into Bair is one of Ike’s kill setups. After the jab, buffer a turnaround, short hop, and bair your opponent. The Bair should auto cancel if you do it right. Alternatively, if your opponent DI’s through you, you do not even need to turn around. It is recommended that you retreat the Bair so it would be harder for your opponent to punish if you happen to hit shield.

Uptilt – Canceling into Uptilt is another one of Ike’s kill setups. If the opponent is using a floaty character or tends to DI the jab combo up and towards you, uptilt is a viable option.

Dtilt – One of those extremely situational options that is awesome when it works, but shouldn’t really work. Use it when the opponent is offstage (obviously) to spike them. If they are onstage, the move can still kill, but you are most likely better off doing another move.

Dsmash –There was a discussion a long time ago about the viability of this move (including after a jab cancel), but the conclusion was basically that the move that does not exist. It comes out at the same frame as uptilt, but is weaker and has much more ending lag, which its slight increase in range does not compensate for. The only time I see this is useful is if your opponent decides to roll through you after shielding the first hit of Dsmash, so the second slash hits them...but that would just be idiotic. If your opponent likes rolling through you, a better option would just to turn around and fsmash.


Notes related to jab, but not necessarily jab canceling-
If the opponent likes to DI the jab through you, you can also just turn around and start jabbing again.
To add to this, some characters can't do anything about jab 2 > jab 1 due to how slow their aerials are and how ineffective their UpB gets them out of it.

jab to grab cannot be done out of a spaced jab because of how short Ike's grab range is.

san
[collapse="jab 2 missing is cool"]
Jab 2 missing is good.
They can't do much as long as you're buffering after jab 2 correctly. If you're not, that's when they can get out.

Even with perfect DI, it's not hard to get them into a combat walk
1-1 -hold A
and
1-2-hold A
can both work on various characters if you get the jab when you're close enough.

To combat SDI, you delay after the jab1 so they fall a little, then proceed to get the combat walk.
Delaying jab1/other option after jab2 is only a mixup since there's nothing much guaranteed, but their options are limited to falling (can take advantage of landing lag), jumping away (take advantage of used double jump), and get away aerials/moves (you can shield+punish).

Delaying jab2 after jab1 can take away double jumps and lead to more damaging punishes, also.

I just tested, and you can't shield a jab2->jab1 if the Ike buffers correctly.
[/collapse]

san
[collapse=Spacing jab 2 is boss]
Jab2 is just about as fast as jab1 with a lot more range. It just has less combo ability but that makes up for leading into jab3 anyways (and jab1 if close enough and buffered properly but unlikely when spaced).
Thing about jab 2 is that there are many variations to using it, since it comes after the first jab and there are some hit confirmations to keep track of.

Uses of Jab2:

-Punishes short hops
-trades/clanks with everything
-jab1/3 followups
-very good if well timed after hitting with jab1


Getting jab2 to come out:

Unless you hit someone, you have to time jab2 manually for it to come out faster, otherwise jab2 will come out a little later. If you don't jab cancel, you can get jab2 to come out pretty late in the animation of jab1.

Spacing with jab1 will let you know when jab2 is okay. Don't jab2 shields unless the tip of the kick would hit the shield. If you think the opponent will dash, jump, or if you can pressure shield/shieldpoke, it is okay to throw out.


Followups after jab1:

Jab1 has a lot more combo potential. Since jab1 combos into itself, you know you have much more time to choose when to throw out jab2.

Delayed jab2 after jab1 keeps them in your jab range longer. If you delay it a few frames after it really combos, you can take away an opponent's jump, which then makes them a punching bag.

If someone dodges your jab2 after you hit them with jab1, be cautious because both of you would essentially be in a neutral position at that point.


If jab1 misses:

Be on the lookout for whether you should jab1 again (spaced on shield or enemy far away), shield, dash away, or retreating aerial in addition to jab2. Jab2 is wise against opponents who like to dash, SH aerial, and jump out of shield preemptively.

If jab2 misses:

This is a little harder than the above. Jab2 has a little bit more lag. You can hold A to revert back to jab1 with a small combat walk. You can also perform any of the defensive options described above.
[/collapse]

san with nair


Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I like it because it's our most useful spacing tool. 95% of it you know, but I hope I can provide that extra 5%. Massive tl;dr. I'll just color useful parts

It's range is just about as long as marth's fair, so not many characters can out-range it. This means that not many characters at all can directly challenge Ike's nair. Unlike Marth's fair, Ike's nair goes just about all the way around him, making Ike pretty safe against people trying to juggle you if you're fully retreating away.

If you face away from your opponent and nair, if you time it right by landing while the hitbox is behind you while still retreating, he can't punish it. Just whipping out nair while your opponent is chasing you is effective on most of the cast.

Kimchi told me how you can full hop + nair onto ledges, which is pretty useful. Also, on irregular surfaces, fast-falling an nair the correct way could give you a slide, which is pretty funny. Useful on brinstar, for example.

I made a post a while back about juggling with nair. The hitbox hitbox starts above you, which is a useful place to start, so you can follow opponents through their entire dodge animation. Nair can be used as a frame trap in order to get past opponent's air dodges. It works wonders on characters like snake and wario, mixing up between nair and jab. Since many characters can't directly challenge nair, they try to get around it, but they can't really air dodge, either. Ike can also fast fall the nair in order to jab or grab or shield opponents who are still in the air.

The best thing about nair is that it pays off to get a hit with it. On heavies, jab after nair is effective, but doesn't work quite so well on light characters with quick aerials. Back air after nair is pretty cool when it happens, but be wary of danger if you miss, so know when to retreat your bair or not. When I'm feeling daring, I dash + charge an upsmash and wait for the air dodge. Against characters who don't have quick and fast aerials to get away, might as well do another nair.

The attack I do most after nair is just uptilt, since I'm not usually in danger if I miss. On stages like battlefield, it could lead to you getting loads of damage from them landing on platforms. I may follow up with an aerial pivot grab, or upsmash.

The good thing about getting characters caught in nair, is that if they lose or just don't have their second jump, It's an easy pivot grab-->backthrow+dash attack.

In combintion with Ike's other moves such as jab nair provides us with plenty of mixups as well as a decent close quarters defense.

[collapse=throws]

Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711
At higher percents, if a character doesn't tech your bthrow, it allows for an easy tech chase (with aerials or shield approach jab punish)
if an opponent lands near the edge, you can be a bit more liberal with your aerials (because if they shield, they'll be pushed offstage usually) Throws at non-dash attack % really just allow for further pessure on the opponent, but nothing really guaranteed. It just forces a neutral position, with you having the opportunity to close some distance.

Fthrow offstage to dash attack usually forces an air dodge or they get hit. Throwing offstage in general is pretty nice against people with just one jump so you can pressure wih long-range aerials/tilts from a safe distance from the stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YagamiLight
Back Throw
Option 1: Dash Attack
Option 2: Jump + Forward Aerial
*Dash Attack is generally a true combo on everyone from around 30 to 100 per cent.

ForwardThrow
Option 1: Dash Grab
Option 2: Sliding usmash
*Dash Grab preys on their instinctive shield after a fast move such as Fthrow and Up Smash will punish them if they get into the habit of spot dodging.

DownThrow
Option 1: Jump + Neutral Aerial
Option 2: Dash + Aether
*The justification behind the Aether is that they may try to go as high as possible after the Dthrow (to avoid Nair) and will not go horizontally enough to avoid Aether.

UpThrow
Option 1: Dash Pivot Grab
Option 2: Up Aerial
* This is pretty much inferior to Dthrow so use the one thing it has over it: the ability to put the opponent close to you for a possible quick regrab.

on sloped terrain and he can also Bthrow to Ftilt the larger ones
More bthrow options:
regrab (for those who shield expecting a DA usually)
upsmash (for those who spotdodge...need to time this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Limit129 View Post
Bthrow's Stale(revison):105%
(Training mode is always 100%, you know)
The following numbers mean the damage when Ike grabed.
(Ike can do DA that time.Remember these means stale 105%)

means.

If you're too lazy to watch the video:

Mario 19%~88%
Luigi 0%~88%
Peach 0%~85%
Bowser 0%~99%
DK 11%~97%
Diddy 20%~86%
Yoshi 0%~93%
Wario 20%~93%
Link 10%~91%
Zelda 15%~82%
Sheik 19%~82%
Ganon 11%~94%
TL 3%~86%
Samus 19%~94%
ZSS 19%~80%
Pit 9%~87%
IC's 0%~85%
R.O.B 21%~93%
Kirby 28%~79% (Kirby sould jump+Airdodge)
MK 19%~79%
DDD 0%~95%
Olimar 0%~81%
Fox 18%~80%
Falco 19%~81%
Wolf 15%~91%
Falcon 22%~92%
Pikachu 19%~80%
Squirtle 18%~78%
Ivysaur 0%~89%
Charizard 11%~94%
Lucario 22%~90%
Jigglypuff 28%~74%
Marth 19%~84%
Ike 23%~92%
Ness 0%~87%
Lucas 0%~87%
G&W 0%~78%
Snake 11%~96%
Sonic 21%~87%

Now for my own thing, I love to do fthrow and bthrow to nair at low %s where dash attack is too early to use. It eats spot dodges and can keep the combo and momentum going.

To add to Foodies, reverse usmash would probably be a more viable choice but charge it depending on how much time they get to spot dodge.
[/collapse]
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
17,154
Location
New Jersey (South T_T)
3DS FC
4613-6716-2183
#2
Part III: Defense
A. Retreating aerials​
Meneil
[collapse= Part III: Defense, Part A: Defensive Aerials]
Part III: Defense

This section focuses on the defensive properties and ways of zoning. Zoning is the ability to control space around you, or creating a wall, through careful placement and spacing of attacks. Ike’s best zoning game mainly comes from his aerials and jabs, since they are fast and can be canceled.

What does it mean to play defensively? Ike cannot run away to spam projectiles, and camping is really only useful in select situations. Instead, Ike’s defense is best suited to waiting or pressuring his opponent into making a mistake. After creating an opening, Ike can then follow up offensively. In other situations, Ike's attacks can be used as a from of escaping his opponent, or creating walls that are difficult to breach.

A. Defensive aerials

Of Ike’s aerials, his Nair and Fair are his best zoning options. Bair and Dair also have their uses.

Nair – Nair is quite potentially Ike’s best zoning aerial. It comes out fast, and gives Ike other options for which he can follow up offensively. Nair starts by Ike’s head and ends at his opposite side, creating almost a complete circle around himself, unless canceled. Nair auto-cancels and can easily be followed up with jabs or bair, depending upon spacing and the opponent’s %’s.

Specifically for defensive purposes, Nair should not be canceled quickly. Instead, allowing Nair to surround Ike effectively creates a ‘bubble’ around him that can pressure your opponent or punish habits. A retreating or standing-still Nair can safely punish those who would try to roll behind you. Or, the potential of being hit with Nair can pressure an opponent to remain stationary, upon which Ike can follow up with some other attack. Even if your opponent predicts a Nair, a properly-spaced Nair is extremely difficult to punish (unless your grab range is like Olimar’s or DDD’s), and limits the space that your opponent can stand on.

When knocked high in the sky, simply air-dodging into the ground is not always a good option. Instead consider landing with Nair, since that ‘bubble’ will discourage any would-be attackers. Again, the auto-cancel function makes this a fairly safe option; you have the same lag landing with nair that you would have landing without an attack.

Fair – Fair is also a wonderful spacing option for Ike. Its monstrous range pressures opponents into fleeing or coming in closer. It does more damage than Nair, and can be IASA canceled to reduce lag (meaning it cancels with more lag than Nair but still cancels).

Simply jumping and using Fair creates a solid wall, which will make your opponent think twice about coming into Ike’s range. A retreating Fair can also be used to catch those who would try to roll or air dodge into your space. Fair is especially useful in limiting your opponent’s option near a ledge, and allows you more space to follow up offensively.

Bair – standing still and continuously using Bair, or retreating slightly with Bair, can be a scare tactic when an opponent is at high %’s. Mix up where you land with Bair and wait for your opponent to spot dodge, roll, or hold their shield for too long, and then move in for the kill. Since Bair has the highest horizontal knockback of any of Ike’s aerials, it can kill your opponent easily at lower percents. A short hop bair can be auto-canceled to reduce lag.

When standing on a platform (on a stage such as battlefield), simply falling down and using Bair can create a mini wall. Your opponent may be taken by surprise or may avoid coming into your range because of this option.

Dair – Dair’s defensive properties only comes into play when Ike is hit in an unfavorable position. When coming down from the vertical barrier, characters with multi-jumps such as MK, or with superior aerial juggling games like Marth, may harass Ike. In such a case, simply air dodging is not always a good option, as many players bait a reaction. Instead consider using Dair to knock any would-be attackers away.

However since Dair has immense landing lag, you won’t want to hit the ground while Ike’s in his Dair animation. Additionally if you are put in an unfavorable position, such as the example stated above, your top priority should be regaining ground control. The best way to do this is to simply fast fall and try to land without being knocked into the air again. Dair is only a good option when your opponent expects the latter, and is anticipating to punish a fast fall or air dodge.

Uair – As far as I know Uair, is only used for offensive purposes. Its almost pure vertical range and lag make it impossible to zone effectively with.
[/collapse]

B. Anti-air​
Ussi

Anti-air is exactly what it sounds like, countering aerial moves. Ike has an abundant amount of moves to choose from.

Ike’s infamous usmash will wreck floaties hard with their inability to get to the ground fast. Not only that, his usmash will lower his hitbox by half making him have a ducking nature which will avoid a lot of aerials in general since many people will aim for Ike’s head for the leeway of spacing. Ike’s utilt comes 2nd in his anti-aerial arsenal. It’s best to use this attack when you don’t have nearly as much time for usmash. Due to its lingering hitbox it’ll make it harder for those who were trying to wait out your attack. Lastly you got aether, this attack reaches far up into the air and nothing can stop it.

Uair can work as an anti-aerial in a sense since it is a disjoint still but it will only work on those fast falling an aerial from above and since uair takes time to come out you’ll find yourself shielding more often than not and if you predict them that early on you could do aether instead.. But if they are kill % (100-120% from lightest weight to heaviest weight) and still doing that then by all means predict the Uair but most people at kill % play much more defensively. But also, characters with long disjoints such as MK you can’t use uair as an anti-aerial.

Best time to use usmash is when someone is trying to land onto the stage. Due to the range, floaties who can’t get out of range in time get wrecked by usmash because they have to AD eventually. Some people will attack you while you’re charging and that does get surprising at times but that means you are being predictable with your usmash and should have used utilt instead cause you didn’t have enough time to usmash. Aether is a very risky move. Don’t get me wrong though, it’s still a viable anti-aerial attack. The only vertical disjoint of its kind, you gotta love it for that. It’s great for hitting those who plan to do their 2nd jump expecting a SH aerial or a charged smash to punish your lag. That situation also tends to happen a lot near the ledge as they are trying to stay as above you as they can to avoid the usmash most likely. Remember, if they expect your aether, they will AD to get past it. Not all characters can do this, but characters that can are the fastest air moving characters such as Jigglypuff and Wario. So against characters like them aether is advised to sparingly use cause of how easy it is for them to punish you for it.
Now anti-aerials aren't only limited to grounded moves. Ike also has Full Hop Fair and nair as anti aerials as well. Fair out ranges every aerial in the game. Only 3 moves will ever be in the way when using fair and those are the 3 zairs that have hitboxes. However fair has a huge 220 degree hitbox that you can hit with so many angles it can get past those zairs hitting with the bottom or top part of it. Full hop fair has the beauty of being auto canceling and you can FF it near the end of the move to get back to the ground to punish them if they managed to avoid you or to continue chasing them with another fair or such.

nair starts its hitbox on top making it an ideal anti aerial attack. It also shields Ike around him against those who lack range. The best part of nair is that you can follow up after it and it destroys air dodges. And if they try to FF AD through nair, FF nair past them to jab.



C. Getting back onstage from the ledge​
Foodies
[collapse=Getting back onstage from the ledge]
Getting back onstage from the ledge is a very important part of the game. You can take a lot of damage and even get killed if you are too predictable. The important thing is to know your options and mix them up.

Regular get up - Move your analog stick in the direction you are facing on the ledge. This option is pretty safe if you do it before 100% and buffer a shield, but you can pushed back onto the ledge pretty easily (you can also get grabbed of course). It works pretty well if your opponent expects an attack and shields though, since the situation is pretty much reset back to neutral. If you time your get up so there are invincibility frames when the opponent tries to attack you, it’s even better. After 100%, it becomes slow enough that people can hit you out of it more easily, so don’t use it that much then.

Getup attack - Pressing either A or B (attack/special) on the ledge. Not a very good option for both before and after 100%, since it can be easily shielded and punished. It will sometimes work if your opponent is not expecting it though.

Roll – Pressing shield on the ledge. This isn’t that good of an option, since if it is predicted it will be punished very hard. The good thing about it is that if you are closer to the center of the stage after using it. It can also be used to easily bypass someone charging a move attempting to hit you.

Ledgejump – Pressing jump when on the ledge. This is a good option because you can mix up your landing with your double jump, airdodge, or an attack (usually nair or fair). Just note that this option doesn’t give you any invincibility frames, so if someone predicts it they can hit you. On SV, ledgejump while holding back on the analog to land on the moving platform is a pretty safe ledge return. On BF, ledgejump to QD to a platform is also a possible option.

Ledgehop – Dropping from the ledge by pressing away or down on the analog stick and using your double jump and anlog to get on the stage. You should usually do something along with ledgehopping. Note that if you get hit out of double jumping you will be in a pretty bad position.

Airdodge – This is probably the best and safest option out of a ledgehop (and your ledge options in general). If you expect an attack, use it. Even if your opponent doesn’t attack, there isn’t that much time for your opponent to attack you before you hit the ground and shield/spotdodge/jab depending on how you think they will react (buffering helps here).

Fair – This can surprise your opponent since it has decent range. But if it’s shielded expect to be punished.

Nair – Not used that much because it is harder to execute than Fair, combined with the risk of accidentally Nair’ing to your death. But it has less landing lag compared to Fair, and if you do connect with it it’s easier to follow up. If it’s shielded still expect to be punished. [I actually see no one using this...do we need to even mention it?]

Counter – If your opponent is doing a really obvious attack, and you KNOW they will hit you, go ahead and counter. If you screw up the timing though, it will most likely hurt. A lot. So either don’t screw up, or just use a safer option like ledge drop Aether.​

Stalling – You don’t necessarily have to return to the stage right away. Dropping down from the ledge and double jumping to regrab it (to refresh your invincibility frames) can throw your opponents off. Just note you can be hit if you aren’t careful. [Insert some frame data on ledge invincibility stuff here]

Aether – You can stall on the ledge for a short time with this move. A drop off Aether can make your opponent stay farther away from the ledge, making your return a bit easier. Some stages (PS1) allow you to throw the sword very far into the stage, while still allowing you to come up from under it if you hold your analog away from the stage. Learn to grab the ledge instead of landing on the stage after the move. If they fail to shield it you can hit them with the whole move and return to the stage that way. Just remember you can grab the ledge with Aether a maximum of 5 times without landing on the stage before you will fall to your doom.

Ledgedrop Uair – Like Aether, dropping of the ledge and Uairing can also make your opponent keep their distance. But unlike Aether it can actually kill your opponent if they are at higher percentages. However, it also isn’t as safe as ledgedrop Aether, since if shielded it’s easier for your opponent to edgehog you [I think...shield pushback might say otherwise], which will force you to recover on the stage and get most likely get punished.​

(Not exactly related to your returning to the ledge, but ledgehop fair/ledgedrop Uair can also be used to punish someone if you forced them to land on the stage when they are recovering.)

[/collapse]
D. Mr. Doom’s lesson on how to suck with SDI​

When I SDI, I try to anticipate that I'm going to get hit by an attack and not be able to retaliate. Then, right as I get hit, I go ahead and start tapping my control stick and c-stick in succession. Rapidness and anticipation is key to my sucky SDI. Also, have your c-stick set to smash.

Here's some YouTube videos for you guys to see, but I'll bet you've already seen them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhy29SGkDU *new*



E. OoS Options​
Ussi

OoS Options

One thing to remember with OoS is usmash, UpB, and aerials bypass shield drop. Shield drop is 7 frames for calculating what move you can punish with. Now then I'll go over basic OoS options though should work in a general basics

Spotdodge: 2 frames- find yourself being hit by a barrage of attacks? Spot dodge the last hit to have much more time to punish. Most common spotdodge option is jab though.

Shieldgrab: 7-8 frames - Generic Shield option, not the best option Ike has but if you can follow your grabs well then this is a good option to consider. Great for setting up bthrow > dash attack

OoS Jab: 10 frames - Ike's quickest attack OoS, usually the best thing to do OoS for a good 16%+

OoS reverse Jab: 11 frames - Ike's quickest attack behind him. Yea its still jab, kinda of harder to do at first but easily done with buffering on the shield drop. takes some practice with the buffering system.

OoS Bair: 15 frames - An amazing punisher and should be used often, however be warned you won't hit people who are low on the ground (ducking) since you're jumping.

Next on the list are punishment options for laggy moves. If you find yourself looking up frame data on other characters and see a shield advantage, that's how many frames you have to punish with a move.

OoS Ftilt/Dash attack: 24/25 frames - These are interchangeable and you can only use one or the other due to the distance. Use ftilt close range and dash attack if you got knocked pretty far away in shield push.

OoS Utilt: 20 frames - Usually i find ftilt used more as a punisher however utilt can work close range as well and sets up the juggle at lower %

Question: Why doesn't Ike use Aether OoS? It comes out in 18 frames and deals more damage than ftilt!

Answer: Aether is a horrible attack cause of how easy you can DI out of it (Especially out of the first hit) and it leaves you open afterwards

Question: What about usmash? It comes out as fast as ftilt!

Answer: Only on the front end. Also usmash has shorter range in front and hits frame 31 at the back. You can get all calculating you want but OoS ftilt is better for frontal attacks and OoS Bair is best for behind assaults.


Part IV: Recovery
A. Momentum canceling​
Ussi

DI'ing Right

Now not much has to be said, but it's very important to mention it in it's own subsection as this is a very important mechanic which makes you different from 08 Ike's.

It's a common misconception on how easy it is to gimp Ike, brush off that and I'll tell you the key to surviving. The key is to DI IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

Now then, as Mr. Doom has said about sucking with SDI, DI is all about anticipation about getting hit. As basic as I can say it, you always want to DI to the corner. DIing to the corner grants the most survivability due to how blastzones are shaped like a square. Don't let the hexagon death explosions fool you, the world is SQUARED. Therefore, DIing towards a corner usually means you survive..... however please don't DI to a bottom corner... That being said, when you anticipate being hit horizontally, DI up. This is VITAL to surviving and not falling into Ike's dead zone. Ike's recovery is limited in direction.. you can either go UP or SIDEWAYS. However 99.4% of the time, if you can recovery with quickdraw, you can recovery with aether, so you will usually recovery with aether as quickdraw is a terrible recovery.

DIing right is very important for surviving bring hit out of aether. Basic things like Marth/Ike's counter and Peach's toad are very basic examples of attacks that will hit you out of aether. Of course you learn from experience how to space from those attacks but you'll find yourself getting hit by attacks such as those on.. so best to anticipate and DI towards the stage and upwards as much as you can.

this is also important for when you are being hit by attacks in general offstage. Back in the Scrubby days, no one DI'ed and everyone was like "omg Wall of Pain gimps Ike soo easy, he's trash" and we Ike mains have been stuck ever since with a bad rep of a character as people judged Ike too harshly. The following sections will show you how to recover as Ike as Ike can make it back usually now. Of course you will find yourself getting gimped a lot in the beginning but the best way to learn is by first hand experience how to recover. .



B. Spacing Aether​
San

B. Spacing Aether

1. Aethering without getting hit
Even though Ike can only slightly move aether, it is enough to avoid getting punished by most characters in the game.

If you manage to get close to the stage,the best way to space aether is after pressing upB, hold forward so that when Ike throws his sword, it reaches as far as possible on the stage. When Ike starts to jump to grab his sword, hold backwards until you manage to grab the ledge. This makes it incredibly difficult to try to hit Ike, leaving the only open spot above him. Against everyone without large projectiles, feel free to aether at a nice distance above the ground to prevent getting hit.

2. Reverse Aether

Reverse aethering is initiating aether where Ike is facing away from the stage. Aether moves slower backwards, so one must be very close to the stage when doing this. Since the sword doesn't really get in the way of the opponent very much, it is also much easier to hit. Yet it does have its uses.

2a. Sliding up Inclines
Most stages in the game have inclines underneath the ledge. This makes it possible to go quit a bit underneath most stages, and reverse aether to slide up the slope, making it very hard for opponents who wish to hit you whilst offstage. The spacing is similar as regular aether: Hold forward when Ike throws up the sword (away from the stage in this case) then don't hold back until Ike is actually spinning with the sword. You need to adjust so Ike grabs the ledge. Reverse aethering is a good read against people attempting to run and grab the ledge due to aether dragging.

2b. Aether Dragging
Ike's aether is peculiar given the fact that no matter where you get hit by aether, you'll be hit in the direction where Ike is facing. This means that you can reverse aether someone, and if they shield, their shield actually slides towards the edge and even possibly offstage. This is what is known as aether dragging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8efkoeM_ug (credit to Rykoshet)

Against characters weak against characters on the ledge (most notably the starfox crew), this can be quite useful in getting back to the stage while giving the opponent a very hard time.
I would like to add something to recovery that I forgot. If someone is trying to hit you horizontally and they don't fall very fast, fast fall, and time upB in a way where the opponent cannot reach you before the super armor on upB comes out.

This also works when hanging on the ledge, and fast falling to aether through ledgedrop invincibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n15hVHkboFE
For reference.

C. When to use Quickdraw​
San

C. When to use Quickdraw

Quickdraw is usually a gamble effort for recovery. There are some characters who make recovering with aether pretty difficult, sometimes. When one initiates quickdraw, he should expect a good chance of getting hit before being able to recover back to the stage. Quickdraw is best used on stages where it is easy to quickdraw to a platform, because numerous options open up: QD to the platform, QD towards the opponent, or QD to the ledge. The opponent choosing to attack the platform gives you a free chance to grab the ledge, or a chance to hit him depending on the character.

The best position to counter quick draw use is to stand at the edge of the stage, so he can get an easy hit or edgeguard, and therein lies our biggest challenge. This is a large reason why platforms exist, to give more options to recover, and why QD should not be used where platforms are not present to be QD'd to usually.

QD is best to be used at a medium distance away from the stage, started at a sizable distance above the stage. If you have a second jump, it's best to conserve it if you decide to use QD. Never use QD when the only chance to recover is to the ledge, and the opponent is nearby, because you will get edgeguarded. I recommend a "sizable" distance away so that QD doesn't clash with the opponent if he decides to try to block you.

QD works best against opponents slow in the air, because they have to commit too much to one option while you try to avoid getting hit or gimped. Some characters you have a good chance of getting hit with a slight punish, but if you DI up, you're that much closer to the stage.

D. Preventing the foe’s edgeguard attempt​
San

D. Avoiding the foe’s edgeguard attempt
Be sure to conserve your double jump first of all. If you're trying to momentum cancel, it's up to you to decide whether it's necessary to use that double jump or not.

The best position you would like to get to to avoid getting edgeguarded is close to the stage a good distance below the ledge, to space aether against someone waiting onstage or reverse aether opponents offstage. When you start aether, make sure that you are not close to your opponent, so he can't intercept your aether early. When you aether, be sure you always have the option to land onstage, so the opponent can't just grab the ledge. If the opponent grabs the ledge and is under 100%, feel free to aether him a little after he grabs, because he can't stay on for long. If he is 100% and over, it becomes much harder, because their getups from the ledge take much longer. If you're in this position, you must time the aether around a second after they grab the ledge, and you may have to land onstage.

If you're far above the stage, it may be a good option to throw out an aerial, since Ike has some of the longest-ranged aerials in the game. If you're going to fast fall the aerial, it's best to throw out the aerial around an Ike's full jump+double jump distance above the stage.

Fast falling is best because it helps you get below the stage and it's very hard for the opponent to follow. If you're facing away from the stage, fast fall+ up air is best, because more of the hitbox is behind him. If you're facing towards the stage or you think the opponent will attack from below, dair is fine. Because the opponent is trying to attack you, getting underneath the stage to reverse aether afterwards is optimal. fast fall Fair is good against opponents still onstage.

If you don't need to fast fall, you can start your aerial around stage-level and still make it back. This is best used against opponents who like to hang on the ledge and gimp from attacks off of the ledge.


Part V: The Mental Aspect of Brawl
A. Not losing your cool​
Ussi

Not Losing your Cool

This is an important statement that many beginners and sometimes pros do not follow. Keeping your cool is one of the most important things you have to do when brawling as that controls how easy you are to read. There are two different things that make you lose your cool, intimidation and anger.

Getting intimidated is a player to player thing or character to player thing. Personal bad MUs or fighting someone you never beat before.. Or fighting the best player in the world~ that can be pretty scary to face.

Other ways of getting intimidated is like getting Ike forward smashed cause you got hit by a move that normally doesn't connect meaning you are afraid you might be read again. The best thing to do is to brush it off and keep going strong. Do not lose hope.

Touching on anger, if you are mad, you are more prone to make aggressive behaviors and get provoked much more easily. Blind aggressive is too easy to see coming and usually leads to your downfall as you rush in too quickly and leave yourself open to be destroyed. But that's scrub form of aggression.

There is a more advanced form of aggression that plays a legitimate aggressive playstyle. You will be in control of your decisions somewhat, however aggressive playstyles only work if you are better than the player you are fighting. That's the truth of it. Being in this state however, its possible to get over it and switch back to being calm if you can reason with yourself. If you lose yourself you'll find yourself slipping into blind aggression if you aren't dead yet.

Reasons to lose your cool:

Died first: suck it up and play carefully trying to bring it back

Suicide: **** happens, just try your best to come back. I know on equal footing its unlikely but a few good reads and you're back in business. Its DOABLE to play better than someone on your level for one game.

Guy isn't dying: This is the most common reason to lose your cool, Do not get anger/nervous the other person isn't dying.

Facing someone higher ranked or important: This is the worst form of intimidation there is, nothing to say except believe in yourself. This is a battle between how good you think you are vs how good you really are

Bad MU: its a bad MU, if you have no experience in it, its a fair reason to be scared. However if you can't get over being scared of a bad MU then go play MK. You gotta tough it through as you gotta be ahead of the game to keep up. Being intimidated means you will lose no matter what.

Got read: Whether you're angry and want to rush in or scared and too afraid to get close, you are leaving yourself open to get read more

Lost Hope: Give up! Go play a game for little girls like Call of Duty


B. Baiting and Punishing​
metroid's thread

[
In Brawl, the key to victory is being able to read your opponent (aka mindgames). The purpose of this thread is to help people read their opponents and come up with ways to counter their opponent's actions. Feel free to post tips of your own and I'll add them here.

For the purpose of this thread, to read your opponent will mean: to study his or her actions and reactions in order to eventually predict what your opponent will do before they do it.

Updates log:
9/13/09 - Thread was created, 7 tips posted.
9/14/09 - Reformatted the thread, added Palpi's tip

Note: All elaborations were written by me, metroid1117.

Bread and Butter Tips (stuff that is for Ikes of any level of play, including casuals)

Palpi
If you charge an Up-Smash and your opponent is falling onto you, it is almost unavoidable..

(Elaboration: If you expect the airdodge, charge it a bit and hit them when they land on the ground (they're vulnerable for only 2 frames before their shield comes up, so the timing might be a bit tricky if they're short). If you expect them to attack, hit them right away.)

Beginner Tips (stuff that is for Ikes starting to play competitively)

theeboredone
Ike vs DDD. You know the DDD is gonna camp with the Gordos and when you get close, try to CG you. The trick would be to see how he would go about CG'in you. Does he shield your approach and then grab, or does he go for it straight up? So say if you approached with a poorly spaced F-air and got CG, you could learn to do an empty air jump, spot dodge grab, and jab.

Nysyarc
... reading airdodges. A lot of players use air dodges to get back onto the stage if they are knocked above it or if they jump back from the ledge. It is understandable that they would want to air dodge since Ike's aerials have much greater range than most of the other characters'. Now if, when your opponent is falling from above, you full hop and do an Uair, they will most likely do an air-dodge to get past you. Move in the opposite direction from them afterwards and don't fast-fall (so that your Uair is auto-cancelled).

That's just so you don't get punished for it. Whenever your opponent is above you, repeat that maneuver exactly (full hop -> Uair), forcing them to air dodge each time until it is drilled into their head. It should only take maybe three or four times. And then the fun part: when they've got a lot of damage on them and they're coming down, do an empty short-hop right around the same time when you would have done the full hop -> Uair, and then fast fall back down to punish their inevitable air dodge with an Usmash for the KO. If the character in question has a quick air dodge or you're just not feeling that Usmash, Utilt will work just fine in most cases as well.

theeboredone
... Falco match up. A lot of Falco players like to camp, shoot lasers, and when you get close, get away from you via illusion. It's good to take notice of how much distance you have to cover before the Falco stops shooting those lasers at you. So let's say if you are 4 steps within grab range of Falco, and he illusions away from you, it's good to "fake" the approach once you get within that range again. After you see the Falco prepare his illusion, proceed to run the opposite direction and take advantage of a defenseless Falco.
-RedX-
Well, what I like to do with shielding is if my opponent is constantly spacing his attacks to avoid shield grabs, I usually turn around first before shielding so that my back is toward my opponent and I just bair OoS since it's the one of the fastest things Ike has OoS.[/QUOTE]

Elaboration: Are you fighting a Marth that likes to short-hop FAir your shield and then drift away? This tip works amazingly well. It also works against MKs spamming grounded Shuttle Loops; instead of a short-hop BAir though, a full-hop BAir is required.

Palpi
Reading how your opponent reacts to different things like U-air and spaced fairs is great and very important to your game, but another way, and more in-depth way to read or even, trick your opponent is to see how he/she can react to SH-double jump retreating FFfairs/nairs as well. This isn't nearly as important, but when you are playing a falco player, if you see him flip backwards from a short hop, you are thinking retreating laser, immobile laser, or even a psuedo-wavebounced laser(s). You can do the same by messing with your jumps to get your movement implanted into you opponents mind. You can SH, then jump back wards and fair or nair. The more options you can show your opponent, the more options he will have to worry about. This can also help you adjust your spacing if you feel you will get punished at the time of your original short-hop.

The Brettster
I've found that some opponents fall into the habit of jumping over you after you complete a jab combo close(ish) to the edge. If your opponent is one such person, and you can read it, use Aether. Sometimes this will give you a tech read opportunity (if the final hit on the ground doesn't connect).

Elaboration: This is true probably because your opponents are wary of the jab -> DTilt, so they'll either jump over you, jump over you with an airdodge, or just airdodge. Each of these options can be punished accordingly (USmash or Aether for jumps, USmash for jump and airdodge, and walk-off DAir for airdodge).

Intermediate Tips (stuff that is essential for Ikes that have mastered the basics and want to take their game to a whole new level)

metroid1117
It's Okay to "Mess Up" a Jab Cancel

What do I mean by "mess up"? It means that it's okay to pretend to screw up a jab cancel so that you can see how your opponent reacts. I'm sure we've all had the problem if opponents escaping our jabs from good DI. However, after DI'ing out of your jabs, most opponents will instinctively respond with something like jumping, attacking, or even rolling or spot-dodging if they're on the ground. Every once in a while, just end your jab cancels early or jab just a little late to let your opponent out and see what he or she does. If they like to jump out, smack them with a jab -> BAir; if they like to jump and airdodge, run out with an USmash; if they like to just airdodge, jab -> FTilt or grab them; if they like to throw out an aerial, shieldgrab them; if they like to roll away from you, running USmash works like a charm. People who roll into you or spot-dodge are insanely fun to punish; this is where jab -> FSmash is actually an option (or, if you want to be safe against good spot-dodgers like Falco, FTilt works as well).

HOWEVER: Do not punish them right off the bat when you start reading their reactions. Wait a bit longer, conditioning them so that they'll fall into a bad habit, then punish them to get a kill or set up an edgeguard - this is especially true for if you notice them rolling into you and want an FSmash for a kill but they're already at a really high %. Another reason for waiting until later to punish them is because smart opponents will change their actions after getting punished for them, thus nullifying any hopes you'll have of getting them with the same trick twice. Of course, you'll have to know just how good your opponent is - if you overrate them, you might miss out on getting easy hits on them.

tl;dr version:

1. "Mess up" your jab cancels to let your opponent out.
2. See how they react.
3. Condition them into repeating that reaction.
4. Punish them when the time is right.

san3711
Make sure your opponent knows(and fears) your range. (attack stick recommended for ease of using nair)

For people with lower ranged attacks, spam nair, maybe a couple fairs.
For longer ranged attackers, mix between fair and nair.*
If you zone your aerials well (don't outright approach/get close. If you have to move forward, make sure it's slightly (and an nair/dash)). Most characters cannot boldly challenge Ike to a range contest, and take a risk when they do, so the easiest (and most predictable) thing to do is air dodge.

After a little while, your opponent most likely will not directly challenge you in an aerial battle too much (nair fear), and will start to air dodge 10x more.


30 seconds-->A minute into the game, always expect that the opponent may air dodge, and condition yourself to punishing them.

1.You must keep moving.
Empty hops, fast fall--> dash+shield, FF nair, FF AD, just plain moving around while staying in a position where you can still followup (with an aerial or jab)

2. Look at how they are moving in the air

Usually, you could tell how they're going to act based on how they move in the air(hopefully I can explain this clearly, because this part is mostly character specific). Take note of what they're trying to do by moving around that way.

Trying to evade you? Find an opening? Trying to out-trick you? Many of these things are character specific with the amount of options (and % chance of the opponent choosing certain options differ) and which you think is the best option available to them.


3A.if they air dodge and you're both in the air:

If you're high enough, you can just nair them(non-fastfall) and follow their aerial movement. It should hit them out of it. If you're close enough to the ground, followup with bair or even another nair. Don't fair. If you think you'll miss the nair, just move a little bit away from them and they shouldn't be able to punish you.

Otherwise, you can quickly FFAD-->jab or even grab if you think they're going to shield. Ike falls faster than a large majority of the cast, and chasing them with nair should still work even if they fall a little bit faster.

3B. if they air dodge and you are on land:

If you're near the ledge and their percent is pretty high, go for the upsmash. Either you should get knocked offstage or the opponent if you mistime it and they shield.

Tripping them up with constant movement is how you can get an opening and jab/grab them. There's always the small chance they could attack, so some dash shields may also keep them guessing on what you're going to do.
Some characters are more vulnerable on certain sides, too. You usually want to make sure when they land, you're behind them. Trust me, it's easier that way.[/QUOTE]

C. Playing Gay/Playing to WIN​
Mr. Doom

How to play gay: camp the ledge and up-b stall against characters with no projectiles. Run around without attacking the opponent and have them chase you. As long as you're not getting nickled-and-dimed, you can frustrate your opponent.

I noticed, when I was playing as mk for kicks and giggles, that I would usually not strike first, but rather wait on the opponent to strike first. People didn't like me for that strategy, but it worked.

Part VI: Stages
Niddo
Ike Stage Choices Summery:

Excellent (5 Ikes) > Good (4 Ikes) > Average (3 Ikes) > Below Average (2 Ikes) > Poor (1 Ike)

Starter

Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- A fairly straight forwards, yet not as commonly played neutral stage. Often veto’d in favor of Battlefield. The Support Ghosts can be quite a help for Ike, given how limited his recovery can be at time. Highly unlikely that his recovery will be blocked by one rising. Spiking someone onto a falling Support Ghost can be a death sentence for them, as they will be forced to either tech or get up upon landing on the falling platform. Minor dip in the stage’s center can help avoid the occasional projectile by ducking, but don’t count on this. Middle Platform’s tilt both helps and hinders Ike. Stay underneath the platform to take maximum advantage of it, only jumping up to avoid projectiles. Platform allows a little bit of aethersliding. Warning: blast off glitch can occur on left side of the stage. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Battlefield (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Ike’s best neutral, particularly in a typical 5 neutral stage list. Slants on the stage allow for sliding up the sides during recovery. Stationary platforms are excellent for dodging projectiles, and punishing those above on said platforms. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Smashville (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Not a good choice for Ike. Too small to properly space with aerials. Platform both helps and hinders Ike by allowing him to avoid projectiles, but will eventually carry him back towards his attack, with him in the worse possible spot to approach from: right above. Many other characters can control this stage better. The platform will rarely aid Ike in recovery, though the stage does have sloped sides. Overall opinion of the stage: Poor

Final Destination (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- No platforms is a gamble for Ike. When against those with no projectiles/very short range projectiles, it allows Ike to perfectly space the opponent with his superior range. However, against those with projectiles or a chaingrab, Ike will get camped to death. Lip can be a problem during recovery for those inexperienced. Overall opinion of the stage: Below Average



Starter/Counter

Lylat Cruise (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Essentially a tilting Battlefield, with the middle platform lower down. Plays fairly similarly. Easy to punish people on the platforms. Tilting is rarely an issue when recovering with Aether, can be a serious problem if attempting to use Quickdraw. Warning: Blastoff glitch can occur, depending of the tilt of the stage at the time of landing. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Halberd (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- A low ceiling means Ike should focus on landing Utilt out of jab if he wants an early KO. Sharking on the moving parts of the stage is both good and bad for Ike, depending on the opponent. Low platform is good for punishing from below. Slants allow for minimal aethersliding. The Claw and the Cannon bomb can be countered. Laser hits too rapidly to be countered, but can be easily SDI’d. Ship portion of the stage has slopes to slide up while recovering to an extent. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Pokémon Stadium 1 (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Arguably Ike’s second best neutral choice. Neutral stage has platforms to utilize. Various other stages have objects to avoid projectiles with, or walls to use Ike’s Fthrow infinity with. Windmill can be used to punished missed techs. Camera angle can cause the lips of the stage to be hard to navigate for those inexperienced. Nothing really hinders Ike here, unless facing another character with a wall infinity. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Castle Siege (MLG Legal/Neutral)
- Ike’s shared home stage is a safe bet to use. First part is a bit on the small side with awkward lips on the stage ledges, but has an aetherslide slope and easy to punish platforms. Second stage has a walk-off, but two statues to extend the time your hitboxes are out by hitting them (Mr.Doom can use these particularly well, but you will have to figure it out on your own), and various platforms to punish. Third stage is a tilting Final Destination, which removes some of the projectile problems, and has slopes to slide up when recovering to some extent. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent



Counter

Delfino Plaza (MLG Legal)
- A stage where Ike is surprisingly effective. The neutral stage has various platforms to punish, but also has sharking which can both help and hurt Ike. Several of the landing zones have walk-offs. During the water landing zones, Ike can use aether to force the opponent underwater, pop up first, and then hit them with Dair as they are surfacing. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Brinstar (MLG Legal)
- A small stage that manages not to have the same problem as Smashville for Ike. Several platforms to punish with. Part of the floor and two pillars are there to extend your hitboxes on. Sharking is possible, but not common. Very important to learn how to take advantage of the acid, both for ranking up damage and recovering. Very small blastzones all around. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Frigate Orpheon (MLG Legal)
- The ledgeless side of this stage can completely kill Ike. This should almost always be your banned stage. While the platforms are nice to punish from, too many characters can take advantage of Ike’s poor recovery with the one side. Flipping of the stage is both a blessing and a curse. If you aren’t careful, it can send you into an awkward position, or can even kill you in remote cases. Overall opinion of the stage: Poor

Rainbow Cruise (MLG Legal)
- Often thought by uneducated people to be a terrible stage for Ike, it’s actually not bad at all. The ship allows for some wall infinitying, and the movement can help stop constant projectile bombardment. A low ceiling at the top means very quick vertical KOs for part of the ride. If Ike has the superior air game, he will have a serious advantage. However, the reverse is also in affect here. Takes lots of studying to figure out how to safely navigate this stage with Ike’s poor recovery. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Jungle Japes
- Another stage that people often believe is terrible for Ike. Those people are mistaken. While the water can be a problem, particularly on the left side of the stage, the rest of the stage offers itself quite nicely to Ike’s playstyle. It takes quite a while to get used to though. Projectiles can be a problem here, depending on the character. Vertical KOs are extremely rare here. Quickdraw is quite usable here for some platform tricks with some practice, such as going underneath the side platforms and grabbing the ledge on the other side. Overall opinion of the stage: Average

Pirate Ship
- A rarely used stage, which is arguably Ike’s best CP. Lots of water to abuse and spike with. Cannonballs to counter. Platforms to use. Wind stage to harass less agile foes with. Too bad you’ll never get to use it against a smart opponent. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

PictoChat (MLG Legal)
- A very odd stage that takes a lot of practice to get used to. None of the transformations really hurt Ike, and several of them are useful. Too much effort to go in depth with the transformations: just spend some time studying this stage, and then take advantage of your opponent’s crying because he hasn’t done the same. Prepare yourself for “BAAAAAAAAAW, SUCH A STUPID STAGE!” johns. Overall opinion of the stage: Good

Pokémon Stadium 2 (MLG Legal)
- Another rarely used, yet perfectly usable stage for Ike that will result with “stupid stage” johns. Neutral stage is just like Pokemon Stadium 1’s, treat it as such. Wind stage allows for domination of those who don’t have air games, and the ability to quickly go back to the ground using aether. Rock stage allows for a smaller wall infinity and platform punishment. Ice stage allows for sliding shenanigans used both for and against Ike’s favor. Electric stage is a serious pain in the rear, even with studying the stage. Use it as a pocket CP against those who refuse to play on more then 7 stages they are comfortable on. Overall opinion of the stage: Average


Counter/Banned

Norfair (MLG Legal)
- Ike’s Quickdraw heaven. There are so many different paths Ike can take thanks to his normally limiting, linear recovery system. Ike is able to hide in the lava by using Counter -> Shield -> Counter, and it doesn’t count as stalling as you can still hit him with certain projectiles. (Might wanna double check with the host first to make sure he understands it fully and doesn’t call you out for stalling). Platform punishment heaven. Camp the bottom, fly around the upper area with QD. Combo into the lava with moves such as Bair. Listen to your opponent throw a hissy fit afterwards because he didn’t realize that Ike is amazing and mobile on Norfair. Study this stage to figure out all of the stuff you can do. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Luigi's Mansion
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Distant Planet
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Green Greens (MLG Legal)
- A very small stage where Ike can actually camp somewhat! Abuse the fact you can safely hit the bomb blocks, and use the normal blocks to length the time of your hitboxes. Or to block projectiles with. Use the apples to recover HP with, to DACIT with, or if you’re extremely lucky: blow up your opponent with. KO in any direction you wish. Abuse the two platforms. You should almost never be gimped here. Just be aware of falling bomb blocks. Overall opinion of the stage: Excellent

Yoshi's Island [Melee]
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it.

Port Town Aero Dive
- Basically never used anymore. No opinion on it. Warning: Blastoff glitch can occur here, on the central node that pops up for one of the stop zones.


Fear my and my ability to create a mini-guide out of nowhere! Fear it! :mad088:


Part VII: Miscellaneous
A. Wifi Vs IRL​
Max
[collapse= Online vs Offline Pros & Cons]
Online vs. Offline


Online:

Pros:

- Can play anyone in the world
- Lag makes moves easier to land
- Harder to be punished
- Lag allows for more reaction time
- Easier to perform standard DI
- Buffering is easier
- Lag can make strings into combos

Ike Specific Pros:

- Standards for spacing are a bit more lenient
- Jab cancelling for president! (Jab cancelling is harder to escape)
- Ike is apparently a Wifi god…
- Walk off Dair makes bananas of a predictable recovery ;D
- Can be harder to gimp / edge guard Ike



Cons:

- Lag can a bit of a random variable
- Harder to punish mistakes
- Harder to Power Shield
- Harder to Tech
- Punishing tends to require good reading skills
- Wifi has its own tier list
- Lag can throw one’s sense of timing
- Frame specific tactics are harder to execute
- Stuff that would usually never work offline can work rather well online
- Online requires a “different” kind of skill than offline does
- Harder to SDI

Ike Specific Cons:

- Camping can destroy Ike
- Ike tends be easier to predict and punish
- Spacing is more difficult
- Jab cancelling can be harder to time



Offline:

Pros:

- Players usually play their best offline
- Games can be a lot more fun
- You can win money at tournaments
- You can talk to the other player…
- No lag
- Teching is easier
- Punishing can be easier
- Power Shielding is much easier
- Frame specific tactics are easier to execute
- Easier to SDI


Ike Specific Pros:

- Super Camping is no longer a Death Sentence
- Approaching can be easier
- Punishing with a powerful move is easier

Cons:

- The person you’re playing has to be on the same Wii as you
- If you’re at a tournament, losing means losing money
- Easier for your mistakes to be punished
- Buffering can be harder
- Less time to react
- Standard DI can be harder

Ike Specific Cons:

- Standards for spacing are more strict
- Brainless game play is almost ineffective
- Jab cancelling needs to be well-timed to link together
- Being Gimped / Edge guarded is easier
- Ike is apparently a Wifi god…


Side Note: All the pros and all the cons also apply to your opponent[/collapse]

B. Applying Wifi to Offline​
Max
[collapse=Appling Online Play to your Offline Game]
Online play and Offline play are usually not a very good combination, but of course, online is also a great way to practice and to play a variety of players. I have whipped up a list of some uses of online play and how it can be used to better your Offline game. (If that is what you want…)

Practicing DI:

This is mostly based on personal preference but depending on Lag and such, online games can be a great way to learn / practice DI due to the slight delay.

Improving Reading and Conditioning Skills:

Once again, this will depend on the player. The delay in online games allows for a larger time window to react to an opponent’s movements, this can be a great way to learn or just improve Reading and Conditioning skills. Believe it or not, Basic Brawl is amazing for this. I personally had absolutely no reading skills about 2-3 months ago, but after practicing online and against different people for a while, I have had several people say that I have the best reading / reaction skills they have seen in a long time. Believe me… it works… XD


AT’s:

OK, practicing frame strict AT’s online is usually a bad Idea (Unless you don’t plan to play offline at all, but then again… if that was the case, why would you be reading this at all?) but for just some type of strategy or easy technique, online can be great. Online is also great for practicing something against actual players.

Match-Ups:

Practicing match-ups is probably one of the best uses for Wifi. Here’s an example: Let’s say that you’re a regular attendee at a bi-weekly tournament and you play a set of players every time for several months, placing first every time, but then you go to a regional tournament (feeling pretty confident of course) and place terribly because you face some players who used characters who you wouldn’t know how to play if you life depended on it. This entire disaster could have easily been avoided if you had done a bit of homework / 1v1s on match-ups you didn’t know and Wifi makes this easy.


Player Variation:


If you’re a regular attendant at large tournaments then you can probably skip this section. Let’s use the example from the Match-Up section, playing one group of players over and over with result in your actual style being shaped in such a way to counter that select group of players, this can be bad for if you go to a larger tourney. Through one’s smash career they will have to learn to adapt to any kind of player style that they might have to face. Going to places like the All is Brawl ladder and Smash Boards match making area (I’ve never been there myself…) is a great way to play all kinds of different people, the All is Brawl ladder also can give to a sense of how good you are in terms of Wifi.


Conclusion:

Wifi can be useful for more that just playing people that are some difference from you. It’s a tool, a tool that should be used.
[/collapse]

C. Control Schemes​
Nysyarc/Ussi/Teh Brettster
Control Schemes
Smash Stick vs Tilt Stick

This section of the guide will compare the pros and cons of both the Smash Stick and Tilt Stick as they apply to Ike. No bias is given towards either side, so you can read both arguments along with some helpful tips for each and make your own decision on which C-stick control you think would work best for you!

The Smash Stick

This is the default setting for your controller scheme, the Smash Stick. In the ‘Controls’ menu of your game under GameCube Controller, the C-stick should be set to ‘Smash’. There are a few definite advantages to having the Smash Stick as your all-purpose C-stick scheme, and I will now outline them in detail. I will also include some tips and work-around for various issues with the Smash Stick.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

  • Possible to SDI with the C-stick
  • Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat easier
  • No Tilt Stick jump glitch
Cons

  • Using C-stick to Dair fast-falls
  • Cannot use Nair with the C-stick
  • Harder to perform Utilt with tap-jump on
Smash Directional Influence (SDI)

Using the Smash Stick allows you to perform SDI with your C-stick and your control stick simultaneously. It is always possible to mash the control stick in any direction at the moment you are hit by an attack, and Ike will shift in that direction. With the Smash Stick, it is possible to do this with the C-stick as well, but it is not possible with the Tilt Stick setting.

To get the most benefit from this, try and predict when you are about to be hit by an attack, or prepare yourself for an attack that will inevitably hit you. At the instant the attack connects with you, alternately tap the control stick and C-stick in the direction you want to shift, and you will do so much more easily than with only using the control stick. Just be sure to use the control stick for standard Directional Influence by holding it in the direction you want to bend your trajectory once you are sent flying.

Using the Smash Stick for SDI helps a lot in escaping from combos and attack strings at low percents, since you can very quickly shift away from your opponent and mess up their timing/spacing. You have to be quick with your fingers and have an ability to understand when certain attack will hit and when you are in a vulnerable position in order to make the most of this advantage.


Vertical Momentum Canceling

Momentum canceling when you are sent vertically (towards the top blast zone) is arguably a bit easier with the Smash Stick than the Tilt Stick. Inputting a Dair with the Smash Stick by tapping it down will automatically cause you to fast-fall, quickly negating your vertical momentum. Since you only need to use the C-stick to initiate the fast-fall, you are free to use the control stick for standard DI and to control Ike in the air while momentum canceling.

For example, say you are hit by Fox’s Uair at middling percent, some distance above the stage. Using your Smash Stick and control stick, you can first SDI down at an angle to increase the distance between you and the top blast zone. Then, you will mash the control stick to one side, to bend your trajectory while simultaneously hitting down on the C-stick to input the Dair and fast-fall. All of these things together make survival quite a bit easier for users of the Smash Stick.


Walk-Off Down Aerials

A key thing to remember here is that holding the control stick down while inputting a Dair with the C-stick cancels out the fast-fall. So, if you want to use a Dair with the C-stick and not fast-fall, you need to be holding down on the control stick. This method is risky but workable and not too hard once you have the hang of it.

Stand near the right edge of the stage (it works on either side but this is just for reference) and tilt your control stick to the right and slightly down. As you walk over the edge, rotate your control stick down and use the C-stick to input the Dair. If performed correctly with the proper timing, you should Dair immediately after walking off and not fast-fall, allowing you to recover using your double jump and Aether.

If you do not get it right the first time or even the first several times, keep practicing, because it is possible. Knowing that holding down on the control stick cancels the fast-fall of a C-stick Dair is good for other things as well. You shouldn’t hold down on the control stick while using a C-stick Dair to momentum cancel for example, because you won’t get the fast-fall.


The Tilt Stick

In order to use the Tilt Stick, go to the ‘Controls’ menu under GameCube Controller and set your C-stick control to ‘Attack’. The Tilt stick is very different to the Smash Stick, and offers a completely new set of benefits and downsides. Which control scheme you choose to use is up to you, but this comparison will give you a good idea of what you can get out of each.

Quick Pros & Cons

Pros

  • Possible to Nair using the C-stick
  • Using the C-stick to Dair does not fast-fall
  • Easy to perform Utilt with tap-jump on
Cons

  • Cannot SDI with the C-stick
  • Vertical momentum canceling is somewhat harder
  • The Tilt Stick jump glitch
C-Stick Neutral Aerial

This is definitely the most convincing argument in favor of the Tilt Stick. By tapping the C-stick in a diagonal direction (it can be any diagonal), you will perform a Jab when standing on the ground, or an Nair if you are airborne at the time. What is the significance of this? Total control of aerial movement while using an Nair.

Normally, to input an Nair requires that you reset your control stick to a neutral position and tap A, thus stopping your horizontal movement. If you input the Nair with the C-stick however, you can continue to move and accelerate using the control stick. It takes some practice to consistently perform Nairs without accidentally inputting a different aerial, but once you have it down, spacing becomes much easier. You can also have more control over walk-off Nairs from platforms.

Some useful methods of employing this that you can try out are short-hopping with the control stick and immediately inputting the Nair with the C-stick, similar to how you would perform an auto-canceled Bair. You can jump with your standard jump button, wait until the apex of your short-hop and then input an Nair while retreating and initiating a fast-fall. This will end Nair’s hitbox in front of you and allow for Jabs to immediately follow-up. You can also fast-fall and simultaneously input an Nair while coming down from being knocked high above the stage.


Down Aerial Without Fast-Fall

The Tilt Stick does not cause you to automatically fast-fall when you input a Dair. This means that vertical momentum canceling requires you to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, but it also means you can be more creative with your Dairs off-stage. The only significance for momentum cancel is that because you have to tap down on the control stick to fast-fall, your horizontal control is not as good. It is actually better to input a Bair with the C-stick and tap down on the control stick simultaneously when using the Tilt Stick for vertical momentum canceling.

Walk-off Dairs are obviously made much easier with the Tilt Stick, and there is a much lower risk of messing up. The only possible way to mess up is if you accidentally inputted an Nair by having the C-stick too close to a diagonal, but with a very small amount of practice this can be avoided entirely. Simply walk off the edge and tap down on the c-stick to perform the Dair. You do not even need to input the Dair immediately when you walk off, you can wait for about half a second and still survive; take some time to get used to how close you can cut it.

On top of this, you can also use Dair while falling and not cause yourself to fast-fall. This means you can jump off-stage, control your movement with the control stick, and then Dair using the C-stick when your opponent is under you, regardless of whether you are falling at the time. This makes it possible to use a Dair very far out from the stage and save your double-jump so you can still recover.


The Jump Glitch

Using the Tilt Stick leaves you open to a certain, strange type of mistake if you're not used to it, but it will pose almost no threat once you’re accustomed to it. While using the Tilt Stick regularly, you may notice you sometimes jump when you didn’t input a jump. This jump is a result of bad buffering with your C-stick.

Buffering an attack using the Tilt Stick at a time when the game cannot read the input (right after another attack, after a dash or run animation, when you are stopping running, or in the shield-dropping animation) will cause you to short-hop. The way to eliminate this risk is simple: Be careful about when you use the C-stick, and any time you plan on Jabbing or using a tilt from a run animation, shield first to cancel the dash and use the A button.

The Tilt Stick definitely has it’s uses, but because of this glitch you do have to be aware of when you choose to tap it. Fool around in practice mode to get used to how long it takes Ike to end different animations like dashing, shielding, various attacks, etc. The more comfortable you are knowing how soon you can input a C-stick attack, the better. It is possible to mis-time a Tilt Stick input by a little bit and not jump, so don’t worry about trying to time everything perfectly, buffering carefully is still a good idea.

D. Playing on other controllers​
An(M)ist
Wiimote + Nunchuk

To all the users who do not use a gamecube controller, it is highly recommended that they attach a nunchuk (or a classic controller, which would be explained later) to their wiimote as it greatly increases action and survival rate by facilitating successive inputs and enhancing advanced tactics like SDI.

By default, the configuration of Wiimote & nunchuk has certain moves repeated in its settings (as seen here). This configuration may seem favorable; however, due to a limited number of buttons, it is wise to assign only one button for a specific command.

Of the various commands that the controller can be assigned to, setting the D-pad buttons of the wiimote to their respective smash commands (as seen here) is arguably the most beneficial as it works similar to the c-stick of a gamecube controller. However, if you have good practice with the shake smash feature (explained below), then it compensates for this configuration and having any different configuration setting won’t affect the advanced tactics.

Before going onto Wiimote&Nunchuk advanced tactics, there are a few features that are worth noting:

1) Tap jump: This feature allows you to jump by pushing the analog stick upward, thereby removing the necessity of having a separate button to jump. This totally depends on your preference. Setting this to ON will favor the cancelling of meteor smashes and execution of certain OoS options while setting it to OFF will favor attacks like uptilt.

2) Shake smash: This feature is identical to the c-stick of a gamecube controller, but requires you to be precise in the direction you are shaking and also keep your hand steady in order to avoid unnecessary command inputs. Again, this depends entirely on your preference. Setting this to ON will allow you to quickly carry out desired smash attack by simply shaking the wiimote in that direction (eg. For upsmash you have to shake the wiimote upwards) while setting it to OFF will remove the risk of unnecessary inputs.

Advanced Tactics using Wiimote&Nunchuk

1) Directional Influence (aka DI): For buffering a DI during a successful smash by an opponent, you are required to hold the analog stick in the perpendicular direction which is closest to the upper corner of the screen. The timing is the same as in gamecube controller – anticipating an attack and, prior to being hit, aiming towards the closest screen corner by moving the analog stick in the perpendicular direction (with practice, it becomes fairly obvious which move your opponent is going to use on you for a kill what the angle of you’re knockback will be). DI also helps in getting out of combos, in which case your DI should be aimed at getting away from the opponent and not at the screen corner. (Pictorial reference here)

2) Smash Directional Influence (aka SDI): There are 2 important things to keep in mind about SDI which separates it from normal DI. (a) SDI can only occur during the frames of hitlag (you’re character’s lingering effect most clearly seen when struck by a powerful blow) and (b) you have to repeatedly tap in the opposite direction of knockback rather than holding perpendicular to it. SDI literally shifts the position of you’re character in the direction you are tapping. If you’re controls are not set according to the preferred configuration, then repeatedly tapping the analog stick in the opposite direction during the hitlag will buffer the SDI. Unfortunately, this conflicts with you’re normal DI and will therefore contribute much less to you’re survival. Now, if you’re controls are set according to the preferred configuration, then repeatedly tapping the D-pad in the opposite direction (aka Tap Directional Influence or TDI) of the blow and holding the analog stick towards the closest upper screen corner will buffer both you’re SDI and DI and thereby save you’re stock for a noticeably longer time. As is the case with normal DI, SDI can also be used to evade combos (Refer to Mr. Doom’s DI for example). NOTE: If you also have the shake smash feature set to ON, then TDI can be done by both repeatedly shaking the wiimote and tapping the D-pad in the opposite direction. This will boost you’re SDI to a greater extent and not interfere with you’re normal DI. Though this may be very useful, it must be kept in mind that precision matters the most in shaking the wiimote and shaking in the wrong direction can lessen you’re chance of survival. (Pictorial reference here)

3) Reverse Aerial Rush (aka RAR): To put simply, this means running in one direction, and jumping with you’re back facing the direction you were running. This tactics comes in handy for Ike since he has a strong and fast bair and is much simpler than the previous two. Regardless of you’re control configuration, RAR requires 2 inputs to be done in quick succession. Push you’re analog stick to run in a direction, tap it in the opposite direction followed by a tap jump. This position is considered as RAR and you can follow up with an immediate bair or any other move.
Section 9001: Doubles
Mr. Doom

[
I've been informed that there is a section on using Ike in doubles. I'll try to be brief.

Overview
Ike's role in doubles can be either one of two things depending on the character he is teaming with: support or lead. Ike usually is the lead when he is teaming with lighter characters like Jigglypuff, MK, etc. He can be lead also when his teammate sets up camp very well, like Toon Link, Samus, etc. He becomes support when the opposite holds true. That is, the teammate is the aggressor. I'll cover both ends of the spectrum.

Lead
Ike's main objective when leading is to try to rack up as much damage as possible while attempting to stay alive as long as he can. When leading, the teammate is close behind so that the teammate can punish anyone who: 1) rolls in between him/her and Ike, 2) counterattacks Ike's slow attacks, or 3) is knocked his/her way. If that is not the case, then the teammate is using projectiles to annoy the opposing team. In any event, Ike should use b-throw and f-throw a lot more often so that he can throw his opponents into his supporting teammate for follow ups. Remember that b-throw will send people who are hit by his kick and not the throw itself will be sent in the opposite direction that the person is thrown. This sets up for a guaranteed jab and, in some cases, f-tilt or u-tilt. Also, keep in mind that Ike and his supporting teammate should work on the outside and try to push the opposing team to the middle of the stage. It is true that having control of the center of the playing field gives the team an advantage, but there's a greater advantage when sandwiching the opposing team to the middle. They will tend to do more things on a reactive basis when being sandwiched, so expect to see the opponent sidestep (aka spot-dodge) or dodge-roll. A lingering d-air will punish rolls and spot-dodges.

Support
When playing the supporting role, Ike is to punish his opposing team as hard as possible while holding his stocks as long as possible, for his lighter teammate will need them. If and when an opportunity arises to strike at the foe for counterattacking his teammate, Ike should use his tilts more often. F-air and B-air work wonders when spaced properly. Also, don't be afraid to f-smash your teammate if s/he is at a fresh stock (between 0-25% is safe) and if s/he is being grabbed by an opponent who is at medium to high damage percentage (60% and above). Ike can sometimes get an early kill if his opponent DI's the f-smash improperly. As I have previously stated, try to work from the outside in and sandwich the opposing team. Lingering d-airs will punish rolls and spot-dodges.

Team Objective
I can't say this any simpler, but if your team can get the 2-vs-1 on the opposing team, then the match is definitely in your favor. Just beware of rage-mode characters who do well in the 2v1. Don't always go for grabs, and don't try to force the kill. The opponent will eventually slip up.

Doing the 2-vs-1
If you find yourself against both opponents while your teammate is down and out, don't give up hope yet. Never, ever try to be in between both opponents, for that is the worst spot Ike can be in. Pick out the weaker of the two, i.e. the one with the higher percentage. It will be a long and grueling duel against both opponents, and winning may seem unfathomable, but it is still possible. You're probably going to spend about two to four minutes taking out one of the two opponents.

I hope you are satisfied with this. And with that, I'm out of here. If you happen to not be satisfied with my briefing, shoot me a PM if you wish to discuss more about it (or anything else, as long as it's not your personal story, because I'll just recommend you to a psychiatrist). Nys, where are you? We still need to finish the rest of the characters. I'll be waiting for you.

Bored, you need to move on. Don't worry about me, anymore. Worry about yourself.



There is the outline folks, just need people to volunteer on any section or subsection you want to contribute to so Nysyarc and I know what to expect.

I'll be working on making this pretty later
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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Messages
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Nysyarc
#3
The Ike Video Section

Here you will find videos of Ike mains playing with or against many different characters. Feel free to post your own videos in the thread to have them added to this list (doubles or singles), and specify who is playing in the video and what characters are being used.

[collapse=Teaming with Meta Knight]Team IDDQD (Green) vs Team Rapid Royale (Red) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Diddy Kong]Team I Have Bananas (Red) vs Team Rapid Royale (Blue) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Wario]Nysyarc & Croi (Red) vs Lamb & Billybeegood (Green) Grand Finals
Set 1, Game 1
Set 1, Game 2
Set 1, Game 3
Set 1, Game 4
Set 1, Game 5
Set 2, Game 1
Set 2, Game 2
Set 2, Game 3
Set 2, Game 4
Set 2, Game 5
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Wolf]Team Sherlock Doom (Green and then Red) vs Team Rapid Royale (Blue) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7

Mr. Doom and Holms (Blue) vs Bwett and Shuz (Red)
Game 2
Game 3
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Zero Suit Samus]Mr. Doom & Holms (Blue) vs Zeton & Nicole (Green) SLAST Doubles Grand Finals
Set 1
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Set 2
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7
Game 8
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Diddy Kong]Mr. Doom (Ike) vs 4rce (Diddy) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Mr. Doom (Ike vs Nynja (Diddy)
[LINK]
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Snake]Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ratman (Snake) Winners' Bracket
Game 1
Game 2

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ratman (Snake) Losers' Bracket
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ally (Snake) Full Set
[LINK]

San (Ike) vs UltimateRazer (Snake) Winner's Finals
Games 1 & 2
Games 3 & 4

San (Ike) vs UltimateRazer (Snake) Grand Finals
Games 1 & 2
Game 3[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Meta Knight]Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ally (MK) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Dojo (MK) Full Set
[LINK]

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Domo (MK) Some games here and there
[LINK]
[LINK]
[LINK]

San (Ike) vs Kadin (MK) Full Set
[LINK][/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Marth]Nysyarc (Ike) vs Raziek (Marth) Loser's Finals
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5

Nysyarc (Ike) vs Raziek (Marth) Recent
[LINK]

Nysyarc (Ike) vs Zhao (Marth) Winner's Bracket match 2 of 2
[LINK]
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Pikachu]Nysyarc (Ike) vs Lamb (Pikachu) Loser's Finals
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Peach]San (Ike) vs Illmatic (Peach) Full Set
Games 1 & 2
Game 3
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Toon Link]San (Ike) vs Jerm (Toon Link) Full Set
[LINK]
[/collapse]
 
Joined
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abidmozaffar
#5
Guys, can we have one small section for "Handling Ike with different controllers". I haven't played much on GC controllers but I have really good knowledge on how to control Ike with Wiimote+nunchuk, only wiimote (lol, only if someone wants to use it), and even classic. Rest of you guys can give inputs for GC controllers (advantage of attack stick over c-stick for ike and vice versa, etc).

Thanks
 

G~P

Smash Legend
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Messages
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LyraGP
#6
i can do a 'how to utilise counter' because i'm apparently quite good at that, that is if its needed.
i dont think i can contribute much else
 

Mr. Doom

Smash Hero
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#7
When I SDI, I try to anticipate that I'm going to get hit by an attack and not be able to retaliate. Then, right as I get hit, I go ahead and start tapping my control stick and c-stick in succession. Rapidness and anticipation is key to my sucky SDI. Also, have your c-stick set to smash.

Here's some YouTube videos for you guys to see, but I'll bet you've already seen them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-yi3IPKXM

Are you guys happy that you tortured me into this?
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
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Messages
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New Jersey (South T_T)
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#8
Yes :) Its always good to hear it straight from the master himself how to do it


ALSO it doesn't matter how good you are! We are teaching newcomers Ike! Just contribute to what you can best, the more input into this will only make it better.
 
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abidmozaffar
#9
Right, I take that as a yes then :), reserving this post for methods of DI, SDI, preferred controls schemes, etc. with wiimote&nunchuk.

Edit: Know what let me not make this page too long, I'll put up a new post when mine gets done.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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Nysyarc
#11
Added a Misc section, feel free to add more idea guys
Nice with the adding of the section. I can do the WiFi vs IRL and also do up the section that debates between the smash stick and tilt stick, and the pros and cons of each. I've got plenty of experience in both those areas and I could throw something together relatively quickly.

:034:
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
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#12
You do that then. I have some things to say about Wifi vs IRL as well, I'm sure we all have a different experience with it so its good if we all share if we want to
 

Nysyarc

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#13
Exactly, that's the idea, to put all of our opinions together. We can each do up a rough section for it and compare notes.

To other people: start volunteering! Ussi and I will very likely do this whole thing ourselves eventually if nobody else volunteers to work on it. I know I'll keep slowly working on new things if nobody else is doing them.


:034:
 

Mr. Doom

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#14
Team strategies? Videos? Can we just post a whole lot of videos that contain Ike in it? Like, Ike vs a specific character, and then you post videos that meet that criteria. You get my drift, don't you?

[collapse=Teaming with MK]
Team IDDQD (Green) vs Team Rapid Royale (Red) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Diddy]
Team I Have Bananas (Red) vs Team Rapid Royale (Blue) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
[/collapse]

[collapse=Teaming with Wolf]
Team Sherlock Doom (Green and then Red) vs Team Rapid Royale (Blue) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7

Mr. Doom Holms (Blue) vs Bwett Shuz (Red)
Game 2
Game 3
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Diddy]
Mr. Doom (Ike) vs 4rce (Diddy) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Nynja (Diddy)
[LINK]
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs Snake]
Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ratman (Snake) Winners' Bracket
Game 1
Game 2

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ratman (Snake) Losers' Bracket
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ally (Snake) Full Set
[LINK]
[/collapse]

[collapse=Vs MK]
Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Ally (MK) Full Set
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Dojo (MK) Full Set
[LINK]

Mr. Doom (Ike) vs Domo (MK) Some games here and there
[LINK]
[LINK]
[LINK]
[/collapse]

I think this will suffice for now.
 

Nysyarc

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#15
A video section is definitely a good idea, I don't think anyone visits or even really remembers the video section in the OP of Ashu's. I'll have the video section on my third post here, so Ussi's first two posts can be used solely for the guide itself.

Anyone can submit videos of their Ike vs whatever character or on a team with whatever character, but it should at least be offline videos and/or videos from a competitive event. No WiFi shenanigans or videos of friendlies where everyone is just fooling around.


:034:
 

Foodies

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#16
If it's okay with everyone, I'll volunteer for "Making the most out of jab canceling" even though I usually forget to do it :laugh:
 

Nysyarc

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Nysyarc
#19
Full Jab Combo's Damage Output (if you use it five times in a row): 16-15-15-14-13. Boom, you got them over 70% damage.
Add canceling Jab 1 into Jab 1 just once each time and you've got them at almost 90%. 20% just for the first one.

Edit: What Ussi said. I don't know if I'll even be accepting vids from WiFi, offline friendlies are fine but I'll have to view them first to make sure there isn't excessive nonsense.


:034:
 
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abidmozaffar
#20
How about categorizing videos according to their upload date? That way we'll know which ones are old and recent.

I'm thinking categorizing videos into a quarter yearly basis but there are obviously more than one way to do this.
 

theeboredone

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Houston, TX
#21
I might contribute something to this, but I'm gonna say something right now. I remember New York Shark saying that he was running out of space to type on his first or second post in the bi-weekly thread, so I was wondering if the same case may happen with putting our quotes in the first post like that. Maybe we should split that section into 2 posts.
 

Ussi

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#22
Using quotes won't be in the final version, instead I'm just gonna reference at the end of each subsection who contributed

Right now I'm just organizing everyone's input like this

Light I'm adding a section strictly for you... You better contribute D:<
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Sansoldier
#23
Part IV: Recovery

B. Spacing Aether

C. When to use Quickdraw

D. Avoiding the foe’s edgeguard attempt

B. Spacing Aether

1. Aethering without getting hit
Even though Ike can only slightly move aether, it is enough to avoid getting punished by most characters in the game.

If you manage to get close to the stage,the best way to space aether is after pressing upB, hold forward so that when Ike throws his sword, it reaches as far as possible on the stage. When Ike starts to jump to grab his sword, hold backwards until you manage to grab the ledge. This makes it incredibly difficult to try to hit Ike, leaving the only open spot above him. Against everyone without large projectiles, feel free to aether at a nice distance above the ground to prevent getting hit.

2. Reverse Aether

Reverse aethering is initiating aether where Ike is facing away from the stage. Aether moves slower backwards, so one must be very close to the stage when doing this. Since the sword doesn't really get in the way of the opponent very much, it is also much easier to hit. Yet it does have its uses.

2a. Sliding up Inclines
Most stages in the game have inclines underneath the ledge. This makes it possible to go quit a bit underneath most stages, and reverse aether to slide up the slope, making it very hard for opponents who wish to hit you whilst offstage. The spacing is similar as regular aether: Hold forward when Ike throws up the sword (away from the stage in this case) then don't hold back until Ike is actually spinning with the sword. You need to adjust so Ike grabs the ledge. Reverse aethering is a good read against people attempting to run and grab the ledge due to aether dragging.

2b. Aether Dragging
Ike's aether is peculiar given the fact that no matter where you get hit by aether, you'll be hit in the direction where Ike is facing. This means that you can reverse aether someone, and if they shield, their shield actually slides towards the edge and even possibly offstage. This is what is known as aether dragging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8efkoeM_ug (credit to Rykoshet)

Against characters weak against characters on the ledge (most notably the starfox crew), this can be quite useful in getting back to the stage while giving the opponent a very hard time.

C. When to use Quickdraw

Quickdraw is usually a gamble effort for recovery. There are some characters who make recovering with aether pretty difficult, sometimes. When one initiates quickdraw, he should expect a good chance of getting hit before being able to recover back to the stage. Quickdraw is best used on stages where it is easy to quickdraw to a platform, because numerous options open up: QD to the platform, QD towards the opponent, or QD to the ledge. The opponent choosing to attack the platform gives you a free chance to grab the ledge, or a chance to hit him depending on the character.

The best position to counter quick draw use is to stand at the edge of the stage, so he can get an easy hit or edgeguard, and therein lies our biggest challenge. This is a large reason why platforms exist, to give more options to recover, and why QD should not be used where platforms are not present to be QD'd to usually.

QD is best to be used at a medium distance away from the stage, started at a sizable distance above the stage. If you have a second jump, it's best to conserve it if you decide to use QD. Never use QD when the only chance to recover is to the ledge, and the opponent is nearby, because you will get edgeguarded. I recommend a "sizable" distance away so that QD doesn't clash with the opponent if he decides to try to block you.

QD works best against opponents slow in the air, because they have to commit too much to one option while you try to avoid getting hit or gimped. Some characters you have a good chance of getting hit with a slight punish, but if you DI up, you're that much closer to the stage.


D. Avoiding the foe’s edgeguard attempt
Be sure to conserve your double jump first of all. If you're trying to momentum cancel, it's up to you to decide whether it's necessary to use that double jump or not.

The best position you would like to get to to avoid getting edgeguarded is close to the stage a good distance below the ledge, to space aether against someone waiting onstage or reverse aether opponents offstage. When you start aether, make sure that you are not close to your opponent, so he can't intercept your aether early. When you aether, be sure you always have the option to land onstage, so the opponent can't just grab the ledge. If the opponent grabs the ledge and is under 100%, feel free to aether him a little after he grabs, because he can't stay on for long. If he is 100% and over, it becomes much harder, because their getups from the ledge take much longer. If you're in this position, you must time the aether around a second after they grab the ledge, and you may have to land onstage.

If you're far above the stage, it may be a good option to throw out an aerial, since Ike has some of the longest-ranged aerials in the game. If you're going to fast fall the aerial, it's best to throw out the aerial around an Ike's full jump+double jump distance above the stage.

Fast falling is best because it helps you get below the stage and it's very hard for the opponent to follow. If you're facing away from the stage, fast fall+ up air is best, because more of the hitbox is behind him. If you're facing towards the stage or you think the opponent will attack from below, dair is fine. Because the opponent is trying to attack you, getting underneath the stage to reverse aether afterwards is optimal. fast fall Fair is good against opponents still onstage.

If you don't need to fast fall, you can start your aerial around stage-level and still make it back. This is best used against opponents who like to hang on the ledge and gimp from attacks off of the ledge.

E. Interception- no clue what this means.
 

G~P

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#24
okay, done a bit of reserach into how counter works (by that i mean i've read kirk's frame data guide and done minimal research myself, which has-in the end-proven very little) so imma write a little something

counter:
when an attack is countered, the 'retaliation' attack will deal (the countered attack X 118.2%) of damage
the knockback of the retaliation is dependent on the attack that was countered, but lacks a mathematical equation to show what the knockback truly is. if the result of the damage calculation is below 10%, it is bumped up to 10%
the retaliation hit comes out 4 frames after the animation is triggered.
however, the first 'counter frame' comes out on frame 11
11+4=15 frames as the FASTEST possible attack and the slowest being 37 frames.

using counter in game:
the point of counter is-of course-to counter a move, however actually getting counter to be triggered can be quite hard.
1.reading slow moves
obviously, you can jsut stand a counter the hit from a slow move (like a falcon-punch) that anyone can see from a miles away, just time counter and *boom* they've jsut taken about 40% damage. always look for teh chance to do this against an unsafe player using a slow character, even if its only once, youve practicalyl taken half a stock if you counter a high damage move. but really, this mothod realyl shouldnt work on anyone with half a brain
characters this can work on: bowser, king dedede, donkey kong, captain falcon, ganondorf, ike

2.semi-projectile shield
although its completely unaffective against character's with a projectile that fires at a high rate. it can be a semi-useful method of getting through characters with less spammable projectile, i say semi useful because characters with slower projectile normally have more than one thnig to throw at you, if they catch on they can quite easily punish with a different projectile. be cautious with this method and dont even bother using it on fox/falco
characters this can work on: lucario, R.O.B, toon link, link, samus, mario, snake(just make sure you know you've gotten the timing on the gredades right), ice climbers (make sure its at very long range)

3.intercepting recoveries
this is one of the less versatile method's, but its pretty effective when doen correctly, its sort of pointless unless the opponent's recovery move dosen't automaticalyl sweetspot the edge instantly, very much character specific, dont attempt to edgeguard offstage with this
characters this can work on: ike, wario, kirby (if he even needs to use up-b), king dedede (if he dosent cancel it to grab the ledge)

4.reading patterns
a kind of similar method to no.1, except it requires a lot more thought and 'mindgames' as its often called, it's also the only one which isnt character specific and its probably gonig to be the best usage of counter. simply enough its mentally noting down the patterns youre opponent does, for example, a different uk ike main likes to semi-approach with a short-hopped autocancel b-air and then pivot a jab. so to punish this fairly obvious pattern, i would counter just before he lands and he would activate the counter with his jab, dealing 10% damage, which is a high amount in a tight game.
if possible, i would recommend practising this 'reading' mothod on wifi, as wifi-warriors are often a lot more predictable.
this is by far the best way of using counter, but its not really useful untill later on in the game this way, as you cant really know what patterns someone has untill youve at least played a minute or so
characters this can work on: all, but its harder to do with less punishable habits and only really catches out offensive opponents, excellent for catching out gung-ho meta knight mains

5.pikmin trigger
my own sad, personal name for this, basically you let a pikmin latch onto you when its thrown by olimar, and then use counter and let the pikmin thats is latched pummel you to trigger counter and be used as a viable attack against an approaching olimar, because they will be met by invincibility frames and a very fast, long-range attack. the safest use of counter as it will probably kill the pikmin hanging on to you too.
this could also lead to interesting doubles tactics
characters this will work on: olimar only

other things about counter:

despite the various situations that counter can be used in, this move is in no way spammable, and ike also has other better options for all given situations, this move is to only be used for refreshing other, more useful moves and keeping your opponent guessing.
also, unless its as long range for stopping projectiles, this move should never be used against ice climbers, king dedede, falco, pikachu or anyone else who has a chain grab on ike, because the rewards you get from counter arent nearly as large as the risks of getting chaingrabbed.
but on the other hand, this move is very useful and the retaliation animation is equilavent to quick draw's with much less ending lag
Click here for the hitbox dats on this move (courtesy of kirk ad his amazing guide)

okay i think that is jsut about done, feel free to edit/fix typo's i've missed on this
 

Nysyarc

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#26
Awesome, nice contributions guys, not sure where to put the Counter stuff as of right now but maybe I'll add it into my moveset analysis. I've put San's quotes into your OP Ussi, and split them up into the proper sub-sections.

:034:
 

G~P

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#27
Awesome, nice contributions guys, not sure where to put the Counter stuff as of right now but maybe I'll add it into my moveset analysis. I've put San's quotes into your OP Ussi, and split them up into the proper sub-sections.

:034:
awsm, the counter section is fairly big considering its a crappy move, so mass cutting down of the info is probably advised, but it should be mentioned that the damage multiplier is X1.182 and not X1.2 as people used to think.
that just proved how bored a day off college can get when you cant even drive yet XD
 
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#28
Yeah, get completely rid of the part about projectiles and the part about Pikmin. We've already come to conclusions with you that those ideas are completely inviable.

Instead, add a part about using counter when someone tries read an air dodge to the ground with a smash attack. Instead of an air dodge, counter them.
 

G~P

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#29
Yeah, get completely rid of the part about projectiles and the part about Pikmin. We've already come to conclusions with you that those ideas are completely inviable.

Instead, add a part about using counter when someone tries read an air dodge to the ground with a smash attack. Instead of an air dodge, counter them.
the pikmin stuff is tried and tested son, it works if its done smartly

what i meant by cutting down is maknig each separate section repeat themselves less, im pretty bad at explaining what im trying to say, so one of the paragraphs could easily be sqeezed into a sentence
 

Nysyarc

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#31
Alright let's not start a big argument about it, we've been down that road already, lol.

I agree with Brett though, it isn't viable to be used regularly in competition, because even if an Olimar main has never seen it done before he'll catch on very fast and just stay away from you when you've got Pikmin attached. It's easy enough for him to just camp and spam you from a distance. If you'd like to debate it with myself or Brett further, please use PMs.


:034:
 
Joined
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#32
Or he can just continue to pivot grab and not worry about anything.

Or he can react (because it IS that slow) and shield. And then punish with whatever in his move set he sees fit.

/logicalargument
 

Ussi

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#33
thanks Sharkie for adding the quotes.

Counter has 2 main uses, edgeguarding predictable recoveries and predicting an attack. So that can go in edgeguarding and GTFO respectively.

The Olimar gimmick really doesn't work.. Olimar is all about that pivot grab... :\

I'm gonna remove interception and change avoiding the edgeguard to preventing.

 

G~P

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#34
myeh, its jsut an extra option, it does say that he always has better options, olimar is all about the pivot grabs here too.
my bad for trying to be productive -__-
 

Foodies

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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#35
I started writing and it kind of turned into a guide on jab canceling in general. Warning: Wall of text.
[collapse=Making the most of jab canceling]

Intro: Jab is Ike’s best move, and he arguably has one of the best jabs in the game. If you hold down the A button, Ike will do the standard 3-jab combo if the opponent is in range. But that is boring; and no one can call themselves an Ike main if they do not utilize the awesome technique that is called JAB CANCELING.

Side note: If the opponent is not in range of the next hit when you hold down the A button, the combo resets back to the first jab, possibly leading into a combat walk.

What is it?: Jab canceling is what it sounds like, stopping the jab combo to do some other move. It’s best to cancel after jab 1 since people can DI out of jab2 cancels more easily.

How to do it:
Basically you just crouch (tap the control stick down) at a certain point after using the first or second Jab and it resets back to the first Jab again. You have to time it right though; if you crouch too early it will just use the next Jab in the sequence, while crouching too late obviously means it will be slower/easier to escape.
Second method:
I recently found out an easy way to jab cancel. I just hold diagonally backwards (meaning, opposite the direction Ike is facing) and jab with the attack button.

Third method:
You can also hold down on the control stick and use your C-stick (set to attack, of course) in the neutral position over and over again.
Caution with the third method :
You can still accidentally use a tilt if you don't hit the diagonal on the c-stick too, and I actually found I made more mistakes doing it that way than doing it manually.

What you can cancel into:
Depending on your opponent’s reaction and position after getting jabbed, there are various followups. You have to judge if it is better to cancel into something or just simply finish the combo. Technically, you can cancel into anything, but some moves are obviously better and more used than others.

Jab – The most basic and probably the best option. Jab1>jab1 is a true combo if done properly (need to verify), and is basically free damage for you. Use it.

Grab – This is useful if your opponent tends to shield while getting jabbed, or if you jab a shield. Instead of continuing the combo, just cancel into a grab to beat the shield. Jab>grab usually does less damage overall than a full jab combo; however, a throw can set up for edgeguarding or juggling.

Bair - Canceling into Bair is one of Ike’s kill setups. After the jab, buffer a turnaround, short hop, and bair your opponent. The Bair should auto cancel if you do it right. Alternatively, if your opponent DI’s through you, you do not even need to turn around. It is recommended that you retreat the Bair so it would be harder for your opponent to punish if you happen to hit shield.

Uptilt – Canceling into Uptilt is another one of Ike’s kill setups. If the opponent is using a floaty character or tends to DI the jab combo up and towards you, uptilt is a viable option.

Dtilt – One of those extremely situational options that is awesome when it works, but shouldn’t really work. Use it when the opponent is offstage (obviously) to spike them. If they are onstage, the move can still kill, but you are most likely better off doing another move.

Dsmash –There was a discussion a long time ago about the viability of this move (including after a jab cancel), but the conclusion was basically that the move that does not exist. It comes out at the same frame as uptilt, but is weaker and has much more ending lag, which its slight increase in range does not compensate for. The only time I see this is useful is if your opponent decides to roll through you after shielding the first hit of Dsmash, so the second slash hits them...but that would just be idiotic. If your opponent likes rolling through you, a better option would just to turn around and fsmash.


Notes related to jab, but not necessarily jab canceling-
If the opponent likes to DI the jab through you, you can also just turn around and start jabbing again.
[/collapse]
Took Nyke's/Mr. Doom's/Brett's recent posts on the subject since they are good and they work. xD Also the other information I have pretty basic, so if anyone can add anything or improve it, go ahead.
 

Nysyarc

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#36
my bad for trying to be productive -__-
Nothing wrong with throwing out ideas, you basically just have to be prepared to have some of them shot down and contested pretty quickly. I'll try my best to contrast the bluntness and occasional rudeness of the others here by providing a more insightful argument against things I disagree with.

I definitely encourage everyone to pitch forward any ideas like the Pikmin Countering if you've got a good case for it, and I encourage everyone against those ideas to debate respectfully.

Edit: Very nice Foodies! I'll add it to the OP.


:034:
 

G~P

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#37
Nothing wrong with throwing out ideas, you basically just have to be prepared to have some of them shot down and contested pretty quickly. I'll try my best to contrast the bluntness and occasional rudeness of the others here by providing a more insightful argument against things I disagree with.

I definitely encourage everyone to pitch forward any ideas like the Pikmin Countering if you've got a good case for it, and I encourage everyone against those ideas to debate respectfully.

Edit: Very nice Foodies! I'll add it to the OP.


:034:
i know, but i know it does work against non-lvl 9 opponent yet it still gets shot down. nothing major, but whatever, ill go try and find something else
i did mention this stuff a while ago about advantages of B-sticking, but y'know, its b-stick, its pretty useless other than the auto reverse arial rush
 

Mr. Doom

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#38
Nothing wrong with throwing out ideas, you basically just have to be prepared to have some of them shot down and contested pretty quickly.

:034:
*insert self-conceited comment here*

Anyway, all of my matches will be offline, unless otherwise stated. The YouTube videos, I believe, all have dates on them, but if you want me to, I can easily add the dates onto the videos.

One more thing: I can put up more videos of Ike vs some other characters if you want, but I'll have to dig through my archives to find them since I basically moved them all onto my PC and deleted them from my SD card.
 

Nysyarc

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#39
One more thing: I can put up more videos of Ike vs some other characters if you want, but I'll have to dig through my archives to find them since I basically moved them all onto my PC and deleted them from my SD card.
Whatever you're willing to do to help out would be great, I'm not going to ask you to do something that would take a long time or be tedious or anything like that; this is all going to be volunteer stuff. Videos against other characters would definitely help but it's up to you if it'll be a hassle.

:034:
 
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