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How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

Nysyarc

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dk's offstage cargo d-throw
I don't think we should include this one or any similar tactics, because the outcome of this is almost entirely up to the DK user. It's like ICs infinite, the only advice we can give is 'don't get grabbed', and maybe elaborate on that a bit.

For the DK thing, all we can say is 'don't get grabbed at high %, and hold up on the control stick if you do'. Otherwise, as long as DK executes it correctly, there's nothing Ike can do to recover from it.

We should focus on tactics that Ike has definite ways to get around or combat effectively.


:034:
 

Mr. Doom

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I'm pretty sure one can tech against the wall or ceiling when cargo-thrown. The Ike player should have no problem making it back if s/he techs.
 

Nysyarc

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I'm pretty sure one can tech against the wall or ceiling when cargo-thrown. The Ike player should have no problem making it back if s/he techs.
He means the down cargo throw out away from the stage, to Ike's unrecoverable zone (too far out and too low to make it with QD or Aether). It's especially bad if they grab you and do it without your second jump available.

:034:
 

Akashi

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well if you want to see the way its done, go off to the samus boards, i think they have one there.
but heres a shortlist on the msot horrifying moves for ike in my opinion

mk's nado
mk's dsmash
snakes grenades
snakes f/u-tilt
diddy's nana's
falco's laser
icies blizzard (jumping desync or whatever its called)
olimar's pivot grab
pikachu's neutral-b
dk's offstage cargo d-throw

and others
I disagree on these three things. Coming from a Snake main, Ike has a few options on shielded ftilts, and utilt is actually harder to land on a high% Ike more than you think (read: his ground/aerial game can outspace Snake properly and Snake HAS to approach if he wants to kill Ike [read: unless he kills with a c4]). Pika's neutral-B is a nice spammy projectile but it's way too slow for it be a hindrance for Ike - on the contrary, Pika's QA is much more potent in catching Ike off guard. MK's dsmash is as bad for Ike as everyone else. It should only catch a good Ike off-guard when he's landing or if he's punishing a attack. If he's doing the latter, then he has other options (grounded shuttle loop, nair).

Sorry for nitpicking :o
 

Nysyarc

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Sorry for nitpicking :o
Lol, no worries. I noticed some of those too and I would even include the Ice Climber's Blizzard Wall as something Ike can easily deal with at a competitive level, but I guess I was just more concerned with not including tactics for which the outcome has little to do with the Ike player, if you know what I mean.

The guide is for newer players, so including how to deal with Snake's tilts wouldn't be a bad idea, even if it's not a huge problem for more experienced players. Same with MKs Dsmash. You're definitely right about Pika's T-Jolt though, the only real advice we could give for that is to PS it.


:034:
 

Max113

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Awesome, thank you Max and Foodies for the input, they've been added to the OP. Remember it doesn't matter how rough it is at first, even if you're not 100% sure about something (heck even if you're only like 10% sure of something), throw it in there and we can add to it/edit it/whatever later. We're getting some very nice foundations for all the sections now, which is exactly what we need.

Oh and I added the bit about SDI into the pros/cons for WiFi thing Mr. Doom.


:034:
Glad you like it. :)

The reason I put Easier / Harder to DI (DI or SDI) in the pros section is because I remember Metroid back in the day saying that he thought DI / SDI was easier online. :/

Btw, I've finished the Applying Online to Offline but I can't post it from wiinet. :3
 

Akashi

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The guide is for newer players, so including how to deal with Snake's tilts wouldn't be a bad idea, even if it's not a huge problem for more experienced players. Same with MKs Dsmash. You're definitely right about Pika's T-Jolt though, the only real advice we could give for that is to PS it.


:034:
Dealing with Snake's tilts are a lot easier than what most Ike mainers think. Coming from a guy who has played (and been trained by Kirk/Rykoshet) almost all good Ikes, and have an extensive knowledge of Snake vs. Ike*, I could write a few things down and contribute to this thread. I'll write more later

* I only mention this because I don't post here. I understand how most people don't take what randoms say to heart, but trust me when I say I have a decent Ike and Snake ;].
 

Nysyarc

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Dealing with Snake's tilts are a lot easier than what most Ike mainers think. Coming from a guy who has played (and been trained by Kirk/Rykoshet) almost all good Ikes, and have an extensive knowledge of Snake vs. Ike*, I could write a few things down and contribute to this thread. I'll write more later

* I only mention this because I don't post here. I understand how most people don't take what randoms say to heart, but trust me when I say I have a decent Ike and Snake ;].
Oh I'm not doubting your credibility, in fact I'm saying I agree, lol. I've seen your Ike and played your Snake (albeit on WiFi), so I know you're a good player. Dealing with Snake's tilts isn't too difficult for Ike, but it's still much more difficult than dealing with a lot of lesser moves from lesser characters, so it's something I'd like to include in the guide for the benefit of newer Ike mains who do not know how to deal with Snake's tilts.

If you're willing to do a quick write-up on it, that would be awesome!


:034:
 

Akashi

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If you're willing to do a quick write-up on it, that would be awesome!


:034:

Alright, I suck at explaining things but here goes nothing.

----

Dealing with Snake's ftilt and utilt can be difficult at times, but what it boils down to is the situation you're under. In reality, Ike is limited to his options solely by spacing, and he can exploit the lag during or after ftilt is initiated.

First off, if Snake properly spaces his ftilt - as in the disjointed hitboxes are the part that's hitting Ike - then there's nothing you can do (unless you PS both hits). Knowing that, Ike does have a few options when Snake's knee touches him. When your opponent throws out a ftilt and hits your shield, generally they will either delay the next hit, or repeat the process in hopes of you dropping your shield. Unless you know he's going to delay his next hit, don't drop your shield until the second hit comes out. Long story short: it takes 11 frames for Ike to act out of shield (drop shield -> jab), and Snake's ftilt comes out on frame 4 and IASA into his second tilt on frame 11. What you can do is play a little rock paper scissors with your opponent:

Option A) If he delays the 2nd hit, go for a jab or even a bair (although this'll take around 23 frames including dropping your shield). I don't think you have enough time to dash grab in this scenario, but maybe it's possible.

Option B) If he does both tilts, repeat option A or set up for a grab.

Option C) If he delays the 2nd hit, roll away and reset your spacing.

Obviously if he catches you trying to jab or roll, he can punish accordingly. Players tend to fall into a pattern though, and if you can continue to adapt to their play style, it'll become easier to punish ftilt.

Utilt is pretty self-explanatory. If he's leading in % then there's nothing much you can do outside approach. If you're a stock ahead then you can stay back and anticipate the utilt. It's much harder to punish utilt than it is ftilt however, and I would highly suggest just standing your ground afterwards.

----

On another note, I kind of want someone to explain Ike's small sliding and how it could possibly benefit him in a MU. I know sliding into Snake's ftilt helps with his spacing, but I can't really explain that properly.
 

AN(M)ist

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Since the snake talk is going on, here are some of my concerns:

1) how big is the range of snake's uptilt? I know its ridiculus but not exactly how long (like when comparing to to ike's ftilt or other move)

2) when snake is forced to blow himself in order to recover, can ike to anything to take adv of this?

yup, these two are some of the things that intrigue me when playing against snake.

guys, I'm thinking we might need to upgrade our MU thread and explain again how to deal with characters.
 

theeboredone

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Uh, I don't want this Snake talk to be in the guide since that's obviously a MU discussion more than anything else.

And the problem isn't with Snake's f-tilt when I'm playing a Snake main, it's more of the fact that they use a combination of the first f-tilt, jab canceling, and f-tilt again which puts a train on your shield.
 

Mr. Doom

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Well, if Snake doesn't space the ftilt properly, then you can super SDI the attack to pop behind him. (We're on the right side of the screen when this happened)
 

Nidtendofreak

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It doesn't matter how he spaces it IIRC, you can always SDI behind him and avoid the second hit. That's what I believe SaSu said before leaving Smashboards a while back.
 

Akashi

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Uh, I don't want this Snake talk to be in the guide since that's obviously a MU discussion more than anything else.

.
The first page already discussed a few things about Snake specifics, like how to bypass his nades. I figured talking about only 2 moves Snake possess wouldn't be treading into MU territory.

It doesn't matter how he spaces it IIRC, you can always SDI behind him and avoid the second hit. That's what I believe SaSu said before leaving Smashboards a while back.
If you want to take a hit every time he ftilts, and if you believe your SDI is good enough to pop behind him 100% of the time, then yes that's a viable option.
 

Max113

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I think I might have gotten a bit off topic here but here is what is more or less a list of uses wifi has.
[collapse=Appling Online Play to your Offline Game]
Online play and Offline play are usually not a very good combination, but of course, online is also a great way to practice and to play a variety of players. I have whipped up a list of some uses of online play and how it can be used to better your Offline game. (If that is what you want…)

Practicing DI:

This is mostly based on personal preference but depending on Lag and such, online games can be a great way to learn / practice DI due to the slight delay.

Improving Reading and Conditioning Skills:

Once again, this will depend on the player. The delay in online games allows for a larger time window to react to an opponent’s movements, this can be a great way to learn or just improve Reading and Conditioning skills. Believe it or not, Basic Brawl is amazing for this. I personally had absolutely no reading skills about 2-3 months ago, but after practicing online and against different people for a while, I have had several people say that I have the best reading / reaction skills they have seen in a long time. Believe me… it works… XD


AT’s:

OK, practicing frame strict AT’s online is usually a bad Idea (Unless you don’t plan to play offline at all, but then again… if that was the case, why would you be reading this at all?) but for just some type of strategy or easy technique, online can be great. Online is also great for practicing something against actual players.

Match-Ups:

Practicing match-ups is probably one of the best uses for Wifi. Here’s an example: Let’s say that you’re a regular attendee at a bi-weekly tournament and you play a set of players every time for several months, placing first every time, but then you go to a regional tournament (feeling pretty confident of course) and place terribly because you face some players who used characters who you wouldn’t know how to play if you life depended on it. This entire disaster could have easily been avoided if you had done a bit of homework / 1v1s on match-ups you didn’t know and Wifi makes this easy.


Player Variation:


If you’re a regular attendant at large tournaments then you can probably skip this section. Let’s use the example from the Match-Up section, playing one group of players over and over with result in your actual style being shaped in such a way to counter that select group of players, this can be bad for if you go to a larger tourney. Through one’s smash career they will have to learn to adapt to any kind of player style that they might have to face. Going to places like the All is Brawl ladder and Smash Boards match making area (I’ve never been there myself…) is a great way to play all kinds of different people, the All is Brawl ladder also can give to a sense of how good you are in terms of Wifi.


Conclusion:

Wifi can be useful for more that just playing people that are some difference from you. It’s a tool, a tool that should be used.
[/collapse]
 

Foodies

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I'm finally able to turn on my Wii to find the answers to some of my own questions. Testing was done on Battlefield.

-Jump speed does also decrease with increased %.
-Ftilt has longer range than Dtilt, and can outspace some ledge getup attacks.
-Got a list of characters dash attack can hit while opponent is on the ledge. For those too lazy to memorize the list, the general rule is if the character's head is above the ledge, a dash attack can usually hit them. The dash attack must also be spaced properly or else it won't hit.
[collapse=List]
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
ZSS
ICs
MK
DDD
Olimar
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
G&W
[/collapse]

-It is possible to land on the stage with Aether with both a runoff Bair or Uair; the timing is pretty strict though. (More so for Bair than Uair)
-The front end of Usmash can hit character's whose head is above the ledge. (Only tested on DK, but I imagine the characters it works on is similar to the characters dash attack can hit)
-Eruption can hit them on the ledge, but it won't spike (at least I could never get it to)

If you could update the guide, Nyke, that would be appreciated. :)
 

Foodies

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Yeah, a jump from the ledge. It's not too much slower though; even at 999% the difference was not very noticeable. (half a second? idk go test it yourself :p)
 

Meneil

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Alright, I'm glad I finished this part, since I'm leaving tomorrow on a family trip. I'll be gone for about a week. Sorry if any of my explanations got rushed, my mind's starting to fade this late at night -_-. I'll still work on the other parts on Defense when I get back, if no one's already claimed them.

Also originally on the guide this part was labeled as "Retreating Aerials" which is great, but then I thought of other defensive ways in which Aerials can be used, so I changed it to a broader "Defensive Aerials." Hope that's alright, and that this is useful:

[collapse= Part III: Defense, Part A: Defensive Aerials]
Part III: Defense

This section focuses on the defensive properties and ways of zoning. Zoning is the ability to control space around you, or creating a wall, through careful placement and spacing of attacks. Ike’s best zoning game mainly comes from his aerials and jabs, since they are fast and can be canceled.

What does it mean to play defensively? Ike cannot run away to spam projectiles, and camping is really only useful in select situations. Instead, Ike’s defense is best suited to waiting or pressuring his opponent into making a mistake. After creating an opening, Ike can then follow up offensively. In other situations, Ike's attacks can be used as a from of escaping his opponent, or creating walls that are difficult to breach.

A. Defensive aerials

Of Ike’s aerials, his Nair and Fair are his best zoning options. Bair and Dair also have their uses.

Nair – Nair is quite potentially Ike’s best zoning aerial. It comes out fast, and gives Ike other options for which he can follow up offensively. Nair starts by Ike’s head and ends at his opposite side, creating almost a complete circle around himself, unless canceled. Nair auto-cancels and can easily be followed up with jabs or bair, depending upon spacing and the opponent’s %’s.

Specifically for defensive purposes, Nair should not be canceled quickly. Instead, allowing Nair to surround Ike effectively creates a ‘bubble’ around him that can pressure your opponent or punish habits. A retreating or standing-still Nair can safely punish those who would try to roll behind you. Or, the potential of being hit with Nair can pressure an opponent to remain stationary, upon which Ike can follow up with some other attack. Even if your opponent predicts a Nair, a properly-spaced Nair is extremely difficult to punish (unless your grab range is like Olimar’s or DDD’s), and limits the space that your opponent can stand on.

When knocked high in the sky, simply air-dodging into the ground is not always a good option. Instead consider landing with Nair, since that ‘bubble’ will discourage any would-be attackers. Again, the auto-cancel function makes this a fairly safe option; you have the same lag landing with nair that you would have landing without an attack.

Fair – Fair is also a wonderful spacing option for Ike. Its monstrous range pressures opponents into fleeing or coming in closer. It does more damage than Nair, and can be IASA canceled to reduce lag (meaning it cancels with more lag than Nair but still cancels).

Simply jumping and using Fair creates a solid wall, which will make your opponent think twice about coming into Ike’s range. A retreating Fair can also be used to catch those who would try to roll or air dodge into your space. Fair is especially useful in limiting your opponent’s option near a ledge, and allows you more space to follow up offensively.

Bair – standing still and continuously using Bair, or retreating slightly with Bair, can be a scare tactic when an opponent is at high %’s. Mix up where you land with Bair and wait for your opponent to spot dodge, roll, or hold their shield for too long, and then move in for the kill. Since Bair has the highest horizontal knockback of any of Ike’s aerials, it can kill your opponent easily at lower percents. A short hop bair can be auto-canceled to reduce lag.

When standing on a platform (on a stage such as battlefield), simply falling down and using Bair can create a mini wall. Your opponent may be taken by surprise or may avoid coming into your range because of this option.

Dair – Dair’s defensive properties only comes into play when Ike is hit in an unfavorable position. When coming down from the vertical barrier, characters with multi-jumps such as MK, or with superior aerial juggling games like Marth, may harass Ike. In such a case, simply air dodging is not always a good option, as many players bait a reaction. Instead consider using Dair to knock any would-be attackers away.

However since Dair has immense landing lag, you won’t want to hit the ground while Ike’s in his Dair animation. Additionally if you are put in an unfavorable position, such as the example stated above, your top priority should be regaining ground control. The best way to do this is to simply fast fall and try to land without being knocked into the air again. Dair is only a good option when your opponent expects the latter, and is anticipating to punish a fast fall or air dodge.

Uair – As far as I know Uair, is only used for offensive purposes. Its almost pure vertical range and lag make it impossible to zone effectively with.
[/collapse]
 

AN(M)ist

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Hey nyke, i'm thinking we should include Ike's character info on this page as well (like his rank, run speed, air speed, fall speed, etc.) so that we can get the feel of how ike actually compares to other players. what say?
 

Shiniest

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I need more Jab cancel info, is there a varying difference in timing against light/heavy? And what timers am i looking at here? any info would help, Thanks

Thanks for all the other info, it's been quite helpful
 

Heartstring

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okay, i have **** to ask about, but i think it belongs in ashu's, so...
anyway, how am i supposed to practise tactics that will work on normal people against cpu's? they do everything differently, and i effects me pretty bad, i used to fast fall my nairs to avoid getting powershielded and grabbed, i still got punished in so many ways its not even funny.
i dash shield to avoid getting punshed badly while approaching. but suddenly it stops on humans and u jsut get grabbed instantly.
tl;dr: should we do a section for lvl 9's -> humans, because they all i really have for practising
 

Teh Brettster

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You don't get to practice the same thing on computers. Computers don't read.

If you're getting grabbed every time you approach, people are reading you. Find more ways to approach and mix them up.
 

Foodies

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So when will you give up Marth for Ike Foodies? It seems like you show much more interest in him :p. Also I miss your old avatar :<
Lol, I do like Ike better, but I play much better with Marth. I play Ike in Brawl+ though. And I can send you the pic of my old avatar if you want.

Also, I was thinking about testing some bthrow to dash attack %s if I have time/got bored of studying organic chemistry, but I remember Light saying he was doing that. Did he ever get around to it? Or should I just go ahead and start testing?
 

Heartstring

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You don't get to practice the same thing on computers. Computers don't read.

If you're getting grabbed every time you approach, people are reading you. Find more ways to approach and mix them up.
okay...
ike is too limited TT_TT
has there already been an 'approachnig with ike' section done on here?
*goes to check*
 

Nysyarc

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Also, I was thinking about testing some bthrow to dash attack %s if I have time/got bored of studying organic chemistry, but I remember Light saying he was doing that. Did he ever get around to it? Or should I just go ahead and start testing?
You can definitely start testing that if you like, but IMO it would help a lot if you had someone with you who could attempt to tech or otherwise escape the combo at each % (finding someone willing to sit through that with you possibly for hours will be tough, lol).

Bthrow -> DA testing for exact %s on each character would take a LOOONG time, so maybe it's something we can all help out with, each taking on several characters. I mean you have to perform a Bthrow -> IDA successfully at least 3 times (to make sure results are consistent) at every damage % to get accurate results.

But if you want to get started on it, definitely go right ahead. Let me know what characters you get results for and I'll take on some other ones, cause I also had planned to do some testing on that initially.

Also, updated the OP with all recent input, thank you very much guys!


:034:
 

Foodies

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Yeah, I'll have my brother try to escape it. I was just planning to do like one character a day to make it not as tedious. I'll probably start with Marth (for my own purposes, haha).

A question (since I'm going to test in training mode): Stale moves doesn't affect the distance of the throw right? Or anything that would affect the combo.
 

Nidtendofreak

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It does, but if you use Training Mode, it won't stale. That, and Ike's Bthrow really shouldn't have a problem with staling. <_<
 

metroid1117

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Yeah, a jump from the ledge. It's not too much slower though; even at 999% the difference was not very noticeable. (half a second? idk go test it yourself :p)
All edge actions become different/longer after your character has damage greater than or equal to 100%; it's not as though it increases with %, there's a set % at which it occurs.

Shiniest said:
I need more Jab cancel info, is there a varying difference in timing against light/heavy? And what timers am i looking at here? any info would help, Thanks

Thanks for all the other info, it's been quite helpful
What do you mean at timers? Nevertheless, the timing for jab canceling is the same for all characters; it's just that the weight and size of the characters as well as your opponent's DI changes what options you have. For example, if you're fighting D3, he's so big that jab -> BAir works fairly consistently, whereas that would not be true if you were fighting an Olimar. However, if your opponent DI's away to escape the combo, the best you can probably do is either complete the jab combo (instead of anything like jab -> UTilt) or maybe dash grab.

Golden-psyco[QUOTE said:
tl;dr: should we do a section for lvl 9's -> humans, because they all i really have for practising
When I practice in Brawl, I only play in Training Mode to work on fluidity (for things like jab canceling) and spacing (for attack ranges). Never play with level 9 computers, they will lead you into bad habits and cannot teach you how to read different opponents. You can practice against level 1 computers to get a feel for their weight, speed, and recovery, but I wouldn't advise anything else.
 

Akashi

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I've heard that level 6~7 CPUs are more human than 9 in terms of reaction time, a.k.a no more crazy PS skills. Also, they still have the AI capability of learning from us as well.
 

jamlosingthegame

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I've heard that level 6~7 CPUs are more human than 9 in terms of reaction time, a.k.a no more crazy PS skills. Also, they still have the AI capability of learning from us as well.
I knew that CPUs sorta learned. Doesn't the game read the pattern you play with a character and tries to apply it? I usually play Ike and I was bored so I let 2 CPU Ikes fight and they started playing similar to me (still use Dsmash though). Sorry if this isn't in Ashu's yet.
 

Foodies

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All edge actions become different/longer after your character has damage greater than or equal to 100%; it's not as though it increases with %, there's a set % at which it occurs.
Just tested and you are right.



And my brother got bored after about 15 minutes of bthrow dash attack testing. >_< The only thing I can really say is that the combo starts working around 70% (after the throw) on Marth. Not sure what % it ends. I probably wasn't even inputting it frame perfectly as well. If you mess up the timing, Marth can DS you out of it (but its a risky move that they wouldn't do unless they are sure you will go for the dash attack).

So...yeah. I don't think I can gather any more data about this. :ohwell:
 

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1075-0983-2504
Ike's Moveset Analysis
Written by Nysyarc

Here you will find basic information, general strategy and ratings for every attack in Ike's moveset. All credit goes to Kirk for frame data and the hitbox visuals. His thread, Ike Data Compilation, made much of this possible, and you can refer to it for more in-depth arithmetical data on Ike's moves.

Each move has been given a rating out of 5, represented by Ike heads. If a move was given 5 Ike heads, it is one of Ike's best moves, while if it was given only 1 Ike head, it is one of his worst moves. Here is a general guideline to follow when using the rating system to determine a move's viability in competition:


:ike::ike::ike::ike::ike: = An excellent move, it should be used very frequently.
:ike::ike::ike::ike: = A good move that can be used often but not without caution.
:ike::ike::ike: = An average move that is situational but great at specific things.
:ike::ike: = An inflexible move that should not be used often; very situational.
:ike: = There is always a better option than this move, never use it.

~~~~~ Basic Attacks ~~~~~

Jab 1

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 17
Damage: 4%

This is one of the most central moves to Ike’s entire existence. The Jab 1, or the first hit of Ike’s neutral A combo on the ground, is a fast and effective way to lead into many other attacks and set up different situations. It can be canceled into many different moves (more information on Jab Canceling further down in the guide), or simply strung into the second and third hits of the Jab combo for a good amount of damage.

You should be using Jab very often during a match against any other character in the game. Use it out of shield to punish whiffed attacks, or use it while on the offense to lead into other moves. Use it to punish air-dodges, rolls, spot-dodges, and to interrupt slow attacks. Jab can also clank with many projectiles. All the uses of the Jab combo will be gone over in much greater detail in a later section of the guide.


Jab 2

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 20
Damage: 5%

The second hit of Ike’s grounded neutral A combo is slightly less useful than the first when you consider that it can’t be used first and that it cannot be interrupted as early. Still arguably the best and certainly the easiest follow-up to the first Jab, it can string into the third Jab, be canceled back into the first Jab, or strung into other attacks. Jab 2 has more horizontal range than Jab 1, and so it can be used for spacing while on the ground to some extent, since it can be ended early and is relatively safe.

Canceling Jab 2 into Jab 1 is not as fast as just Jab 1 into Jab 1, so you should be careful about when you choose to do it. The advantage of it is that Ike moves forward slightly when using Jab 2, so you can follow an opponent who is SDIing away from you. If you catch an opponent horizontally out in front of and above you with Jab 1, you can hold down A to Combat Walk, basically you will repeatedly use Jab 2 and miss automatically, looping back to Jab 1 to hit them again.


Jab 3

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 10-14
Ends on Frame 38
Damage: 7%

The third Jab is usually a guaranteed follow-up to the second, which makes Jab 1 to Jab 2 to Jab 3 a very safe and effective three-hit combo at any percent and against any character. Jab 3 has a lingering hitbox after Ike swings the sword, which has some use in punishing spot-dodges, but you should not use Jab 3 if you missed the opponent with Jab 1 and 2, because Jab 3 takes longer to end and so you will be more vulnerable.

Jab 3 is powerful enough that it is possible to KO with it at very high percents, or at least to get your opponents far enough off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. Following up your Jab 1 and Jab 2 with other moves like Up Tilt is a better idea for KOing at high percents, but ending with Jab 3 is good for racking damage early on.


Dash Attack

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-19
End on Frame 51
Damage: 7-8%

Ike’s Dash Attack (or DA) is a move that definitely has it’s uses, but should not be used excessively. DA does not do too much damage on it’s own, but can be used as a follow-up to different attacks (see the section on following up Ike’s throws). The hitbox closer to the tip of Ike’s sword deals 1% more damage than those closer to Ike, but it really doesn’t make too much difference.

DA has a lot of horizontal range, and since the beginning of the animation looks like Ike’s dash, it can sometimes fool opponents. You should not be using DA as an approach however, because it is easily blocked and punished. You can use DA to punish opponents who are rolling away from you, or performing a laggy action far across the stage (using a slow projectile like Pikmin throw for example).

It is also sometimes a good idea to hit opponent’s trying to recover with DA if the opportunity presents itself, because it will send them at a good angle off-stage and allow you to have a better shot at edge-guarding effectively. Take some time to get used to how far Ike moves forward when using DA and accustom yourself to where and how soon the hitbox comes out, so you will be able to better utilize it in different situations.


~~~~~ Tilt Attacks ~~~~~

Forward Tilt

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Angled up:


Angled down:
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Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 17-19
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 12-15%

Forward Tilt (or Ftilt) is a strong KO move at higher percents if you can make a read and space it well, but otherwise it does not have too many practical uses. It’s damage drops considerably if you hit your opponent near Ike’s waist, doing only 12% compared to 15% if you hit with the tip or middle section of the sword. Ftilt is too slow of a move and certainly takes too long to end for it to be a viable damage-racking move.

Some particular scenarios where Ftilt will work is if you can bait your opponent into air-dodging or poorly spacing an aerial while coming back to the stage. If you retreat a bit and then turn and Ftilt, it is fast enough that it can catch an opponent after such an action and even if it doesn’t KO them, put them in a bad position off stage. Mostly though, you should not be using Ftilt until your opponent is at 80-110% based on how heavy they are, since it’s only real purpose is as a KO move.


Up Tilt

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Note: This only roughly shows the entire area that Utilt affects. The first image shows Frame 1 of the hitbox (Frame 13 of the animation), but the hitbox lingers in the position of the third image for about 12 frames.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 13-29
Ends on Frame 50
Damage: 9-12%

Ike’s Up Tilt (or Utilt) is an excellent move all around in a lot of situations. The hitbox stays out for a long time, making the move fairly safe considering it also ends earlier than Ike’s other tilt attacks. It’s hitbox forms a protective square all around Ike, starting at his feet and rising over him to reach above platforms on stages like Battlefield. Utilt does 12% damage if you hit with the sword initially, but only 10% if you hit once the hitbox has reached it’s peak, and 9% if you hit with the hilt.

The lingering hitbox up high makes this move great for punishing things like rolls and spot dodges on a platform above you, and also air-dodges over your head. Utilt is powerful enough to KO relatively early if it’s fresh, usually just over 100% for the majority of the cast. On top of all that, it also comes out quite fast, with the earliest hitbox appearing after just 13 frames.

You can use Utilt as a follow up to moves like Neutral Aerial and Jab 1 at low percents to help rack damage, or keep it fresh to use as a KO move. Either way, Utilt is a great move that can be used fairly often in competitive matches. There are still times when you should not use Utilt, but it is harder to punish than many of your other ground attacks, so you don’t have to be as hesitant if you see an opportunity.


Down Tilt

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Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 16-18
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 14%

The Down Tilt (or Dtilt) is not a terrible move, but it is very situational and otherwise risky to use. It’s primary function is as a spike near the ledge, which of course means you won’t be getting too many spikes with it since your opponents can just grab the ledge to avoid it. Dtilt’s small hitbox and long ending time means it is not a good option on-stage, although if you manage to hit with the hilt of the sword it will send your opponent at a forward angle stronger than an Ftilt.

No matter what part of the hitbox connects, Dtilt will deal 14% damage fresh. It has a slight chance of tripping on-stage, but this is not practical due to it’s lack of speed and your inability to follow up the trip. The best way to spike with Dtilt is against opponents who have recoveries that do not automatically snap to the ledge (Luigi’s sideB recovery for example). It should not be used to punish planking, especially against characters like Meta Knight since it takes so long to start up and end.


~~~~~ Smash Attacks ~~~~~

Forward Smash

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Note: As you can see, the area in the upper-right of these images close to the visible platform is not affected by the hitbox even though it appears to be within the sword's swing radius.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 31-34
Ends on Frame 80
Damage: 17-22%

Forward Smash (or Fsmash) is a move that should not be used often at all, but if used intelligently, can instantly change the momentum of a match. The hitbox ends quickly and covers an area directly above and in front of Ike, but not the diagonal out in front of him (see the hitbox visual). Fsmash will usually do 22% damage fresh and uncharged, but will deal only 17% if you hit with the tip at the end of the attack and 20% if you hit with the hilt.

Fsmash has the longest start-up time of any of Ike’s smashes, but it only takes 7 frames for the hitbox to emerge after holding it to charge, ironically the fastest of Ike’s smashes. Thus making a read and charging an Fsmash to punish something like an air-dodge, a poorly spaced attack or a grounded dodge is effective since you can easily time it’s release. You should not use Fsmash if you are not 100% sure of your intentions though, never just ‘throw it out’ in hopes that it will connect.

It is possible to KO with a charged Fsmash as early as 40% near the edge of many stages and against certain characters. Most often you should try to land a slightly charged Fsmash in the 60-80% range near the ledge to KO your opponent. If it does not work once, do not try it again that stock, and possibly even that match. You have much faster and more reliable KO moves for opponents that are over 80% damage, so do not take unnecessary risks by using an Fsmash.


Up Smash

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Note: The second and fourth images show the frames during which the hitbox can poke under a shield on a platform. If you compare the height of the platforms in the images to the hitbox, you will see that this is the case, and in-game occurrences have proven it.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 25-31
Ends on Frame 67
Damage: 17-19%

Ike’s Up Smash (or Usmash) is by far the best of his smash attacks and arguably one of his best KO moves. Usmash comes out slower than a tilt, but relatively quick considering it’s strength and damage output. The initial hitbox of Usmash will do 17% damage, while the last two frames that linger on the back end of the swing deal 19%. Usmash ends deceptively early and you can slide while using it, so it is your safest all-purpose smash attack.

Usmash can be used at lower percents to inflict damage if an opportunity presents itself, but it is best kept fresh to KO at upwards of 90% on most characters. Retreating an Usmash by dashing backwards and then inputting the Usmash is very safe and effective if you can bait an approach. Usmash is ideal for punishing rolls since it’s hitbox lingers after the backswing. It is also great for punishing baited air-dodges due to it’s large sweeping range and the fact that you can charge it.

You can use an Usmash to follow up things like Jabs or an Nair at low percents if you’ve read your opponent. For example, if they like to spot-dodge or roll out of your flubbed Jab Cancels, try Jabbing just once and then beginning to charge an Usmash. If they spot-dodge or roll, it will be easy to punish and the reward is high. If you whiff an Usmash, and your opponent is advancing to punish you, be ready to put a shield on or Jab them at the earliest possible moment, because either of those will often catch them off guard.

Usmash is also excellent for sharking platforms. It’s hitboxes are mapped to Ike’s sword, which skips over wide areas and ends up hitting directly at the level of a Battlefield platform on two separate frames of the attack (see the hitbox visual). This means that it can perfectly poke underneath an opponent’s semi-worn shield as long as they are not directly above you. If an opponent is holding their shield on above you and to either side a bit, go for the Usmash shield poke.


Down Smash

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Note: The smaller hitbox seen in the third image lingers for 9 frames and only deals 8% damage in contrast to the larger one (seen in the second image) which lasts for 4 frames and deals 16% damage.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike:
Hits on Frames 13-16 and 32-44
Ends on Frame 70
Damage: 13% and 8-16%

Down Smash (or Dsmash) would be an excellent move if the first hit could string into the second (doing a total of 29% damage fresh), but it can’t. So it’s a pretty terrible move. In fact it’s not so much that Dsmash is an awful move, but rather that Ike has a different move that is better suited for every situation. The first hit always does 13% damage fresh and the back hit will initially do 16%, but then degrade all the way to 8% during the smaller, lingering part of the hitbox (see the hitbox visual).

Dsmash comes out on frame 13, pretty fast. But so does Utilt. Dsmash does 16% damage on the back hit. So does a full Jab combo. Dsmash covers in front of and behind Ike. So does Usmash, except Usmash gets behind Ike faster, covers above him too, deals more damage, KOs better, and ends earlier. Believe it or not, Dsmash has less base knockback (KO power) than Ike’s Neutral Aerial. All of this, along with the fact that Dsmash is very punishable if whiffed, means you should never be using it in a competitive match. There’s just no point.


~~~~~ Aerial Attacks ~~~~~

Neutral Aerial

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Note: Like Utilt, these images do not show every frame of the hitbox; some frames are skipped between images. The first image shows the initial position of the hitbox, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 15-32
Ends on Frame 76 (Air) and 13 (Landing)
Damage: 9%

Ike’s Neutral Aerial (or Nair) is likely one of the best aerial attacks in the game. It combines a long hitbox, good damage output, combo-ability, range, and speed in a way that very few other aerial attacks, even attacks in general, can. Nair will deal 9% damage fresh no matter what part of the hitbox connects, and although it is difficult to auto-cancel upon landing, it can be interrupted after just 13 frames. One problem is how long it lasts in the air, so you shouldn’t be using it off-stage.

On-stage however, Nair has a myriad uses, limited only by your imagination. It can be used as a very safe approach on many characters as long as it is spaced well, which means not jumping straight into your opponent when you use it. There is no safer way for Ike to retreat than an Nair thrown out while jumping backwards or even while facing away from your opponent, since Nair’s hitbox ends up behind Ike. Using a full-hop and Nair is a great way to safely board a Battlefield-height platform from below.

If you connect with Nair at low percents, you can string the hit into a Jab 1 and thence to other moves, or you can string it into an Utilt or a Back Aerial in certain situations. Stringing it into a Jab will usually guarantee the most total damage you’ll get out of the pseudo combo, but on a stage like Battlefield you can use an Utilt after Nair to get them above the platforms and then shark them for extra damage.

You should be using Nair very often at low and middling percents, but then easing off and using better KO moves as you rack damage. There’s nothing wrong with using Nair at high percents, it’s still very safe, but it will rarely get you the KO. Using the c-stick to Nair (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) is very helpful because it allows you to continue to move left or right while airborne, you don’t have to stop motion and tap A to perform the Nair.

Nair is an excellent frame trap for punishing air-dodges. If you use it to challenge someone returning to the stage, most characters cannot out-range it, so they will air-dodge. Because of Nair’s long hitbox, it can catch most characters after their air-dodge if you time it and space it right. Using your Down Throw at low percents and following up with an Nair will often work as well for the same reason: many players will air-dodge after the Down Throw (see the section on Following-Up Throws).

On top of all this, Nair is also one of Ike’s best moves for platform sharking. The initial 6 frames of the hitbox appear above a platform if you short-hop and Nair immediately, and you can either then fast-fall and reset yourself if you hit them, or allow yourself to fall normally so that the back end of Nair’s hitbox rises above the platform for several more frames. Short-hopping and fast-falling your Nairs is key to being as quick as possible with them, since Nair takes a long time to end in the air but ends very quickly after landing.


Forward Aerial

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-21
Ends on Frame 60 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 13%

The Forward Aerial (or Fair) is a very versatile move that has plenty of good uses. It is not the safest aerial to use in every situation, but you will find yourself using often. Fair deals 13% fresh at all points of the hitbox and does not last an undue amount of time in the air. The auto-cancel window is decent, and allows you to auto-cancel an Fair if you use it immediately on a full-hop jump (without double-jumping or fast-falling). The landing lag itself isn’t too bad either, especially considering Fair’s enormous range.

The fact is, if you space Fair properly, the only aerial moves in the game that can really challenge it are Samus, Link and Toon Link’s Zair (literally pressing Z in the air). You should never jump straight into your opponent when using Fair, jumping forward slightly is fine, as long as you retreat back afterwards if you did not successfully hit your opponent. Fair is a good approach in this sense because it cannot be directly challenged by a lot of characters. Although Fair will usually stale due to it’s frequent use as a spacing move, it can also KO quite well if it’s kept fresh.

One technique for utilizing Fair’s range in a safe and effective way without the need of any custom controls, is to press whatever button you have jump set to (I use ‘X’ myself) and at the exact same moment, hold the control stick in the direction you are facing and press A. Now, this will execute a full-hop Fair that will auto-cancel if you do not fast-fall and land on even ground, but because you have the control stick still jammed forward, Ike will jump towards the opponent. You can easily control the direction of his jump while still controlling the direction of the Fair though.

If you immediately mash the control stick back in the opposite direction after inputting the jump and A buttons, Ike will jump backwards and Fair forwards at the same time; on top of that, it will still auto-cancel. Like I said, no custom control schemes are necessary to do this, and it allows you full control of Ike throughout the jump since the Fair is inputted before you are actually in the air (which is called buffering). Now obviously this method means Fair’s hitbox will be up fairly high, so it works best on opponents approaching from the air or on platforms. Otherwise, you should always be short-hopping and fast-falling when you Fair.


Back Aerial

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 7-9
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 14%

Back Aerial (or Bair) is another exceptional aerial attack that has many different practical uses. The hitbox emerges very quickly, Ike’s second fastest attack other than Jab 1, and will always deal 14% damage when it’s fresh. It has as much landing lag as Fair, but it can be auto-canceled if you short-hop and use Bair immediately, not fast-falling afterwards. The easiest way to do this is to tap up on the control stick and back on the c-stick immediately afterwards (very close to the exact same time).

One of the most effective and commonly used functions of Bair is as an option Out of Shield (OoS). If you shield an opponent’s attack, or particularly if you power-shield their attack and you have your back to them, whipping out a Bair to punish is almost always a safe and effective option. You have the choice then to either move back towards them through the air and follow-up with Jabs after Bair auto-cancels (this only works at low percents), or to move away from them if you are unsure whether the Bair will connect. Retreating and auto-canceling your Bairs by short-hopping is as safe or safer than retreating with Nair.

On top of being able to auto-cancel Bair by short-hopping it on even ground, you can also do a full-hop and Bair immediately to auto-cancel it landing on a platform above you. This works on Battlefield, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon (only the second transformation of the stage), Halberd, the side platforms of Lylat Cruise, and the Pokemon Stadiums. This is useful if your opponent is at a low percent on a platform; you can full-hop up and Bair them and then follow-up immediately when it auto-cancels.

Due to the speed that Bair comes out and it’s very good horizontal range, it can be used to challenge the aerials of many other characters. If you have your back to your opponent, they will often be wary of Bair, and rightly so. Jumping up with your back to your opponent while they are returning to the stage will often bait an air-dodge, which you can then punish by waiting until it ends and whipping out Bair.

Bair’s hitbox reaches above Battlefield-height platforms if you short-hop auto-cancel it, making it great for punishing opponent’s who are rolling or spot-dodging on the platforms. It will obviously send them horizontally, which can be favorable to the vertical trajectory that many of Ike’s other sharking moves feature. Hitting your opponent off-stage at a nice angle can set up for an edge-guard against many characters. And on that note, Bair is also great for edge-guarding because it will out-prioritize many recoveries such as DK’s Kopter Kong and even another Ike’s Aether.

On top of all these benefits, Bair is a wonderful tool that can be used at low percents to string into other moves and rack damage (it does a solid amount of damage itself), or it can be saved as a KO move at higher percents. If it’s kept fresh, a Bair can KO most opponents within the 90-110% range, and even stale it remains a reliable KO move or at least a nice way to get your opponent off-stage. Like Nair, the uses you can find for Bair are really only limited by your imagination.


Up Aerial

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Note: Again, like Utilt and Nair, there are some frames of the hitbox that are skipped in these images. As always, the first image shows the initial hitbox position, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 15-31
Ends on Frame 58 (Air) and 19 (Landing)
Damage: 14%

Ike’s Up Aerial (or Uair) has a lot of very good uses, but is not as consistently safe to use as some of his other aerials. Nevertheless it is an excellent move, dealing a solid 14% damage fresh and with a lingering hitbox that covers a wide area above Ike for a good amount of time. It can be interrupted in the air slightly earlier than Fair, and it has the second lowest landing lag time of Ike’s aerials, behind only Nair. As if all that wasn’t good enough, it also has significant KO power.

The first and probably best of Uair’s many uses is for sharking platforms both near and far from the ground. It’s swirling hitbox easily covers an entire platform and because it lasts for 16 frames, it can punish rolls or spot-dodges very effectively. In general it is a good move to use as an opponent is falling from up high, platforms or not. It comes out relatively quick and will take priority over a lot of other character’s aerials.

The best way to use Uair on an opponent who is falling towards you is to jump up and meet them a good distance above the ground, but with your back to them. Uair’s hitbox spends most of it’s time behind Ike (see the hitbox visual), and so if you fall with your opponent just a bit underneath and in front of them, your Uair will be spaced well enough to out-range many aerials and will frame trap your opponent if they air-dodge.

Uair can be used while you are falling back to the stage as well. Many people will not expect this, and as long as you space it well horizontally, have your back to your opponent and fast-fall, you should be safe. It can even get you a surprise KO since most people will instinctively DI up, expecting an attack like Fair while you are dropping. Uair may not have much less landing lag than Fair and Bair, but even 3 frames can be enough to throw some people off, so be ready to Jab or defend at the earliest possible moment after landing.


Down Aerial

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Note: The hitbox seen in the first image (which lasts for 2 frames) deals 16% damage and will spike the opponent. The hitbox from the second image lingers for 12 frames, deals 12% damage and hits opponents upward.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 16-30
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 29 (Landing)
Damage: 12-16%

Down Aerial (or Dair) is a move that has only one practical purpose, but it can achieve that purpose in many different ways. That purpose is to spike your opponents, and Dair is Ike’s best move spiking move. It will deal 16% damage for the first two frames of the attack that spike, and then the lingering hitbox that sends opponents upward will do only 12% (see the hitbox visual). Like Bair, it does not take very long to end in the air, but it has horrendous landing lag on-stage.

Now to quickly go over other, mostly inviable uses for Dair. If you full-hop and immediately input a Dair at the same time, the attack will end before Ike hits the ground again, meaning you can double-jump and use another attack. The same goes for Bair of course. If you manage to full-hop Dair someone beneath you at around 30%, double-jumping and using Bair as soon as it’s possible is a true combo. Even DI cannot save them since you can follow them with your jump and Bair has a large hitbox. However, the risk of trying this outweighs the small benefit due to Dair’s on-stage landing lag and the fact that your opponent has to be directly beneath you for it to work.

Moving on, there are several practical ways to spike with Dair. One is to jump high off-stage to meet a returning opponent, wait for them to air-dodge and then use the tilt stick (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) to perform your Dair as punishment. If you don’t think they will attempt to air-dodge, you can simply jump up off-stage and Dair without need of the tilt stick for safety; don’t expect that method to work on too many good players though.

You can also perform a walk-off Dair in two different ways. If you use the smash stick, hold your control stick towards the ledge and down at an angle, so Ike falls off the stage, then quickly rotate your control stick so it is facing straight down and tap down on the c-stick at the same time. If you performed the Dair immediately after walking off the stage, you should easily be able to double-jump and Aether back to the ledge. With the tilt stick it is much easier: just walk off the ledge and hit the c-stick down; you don’t have to worry about fast-falling.

The final way to use Dair that is effective for edge-guarding some recoveries below the stage, is to drop off and double-jump from the ledge and Dair. Literally just grab the ledge when your opponent is off-stage, and when the timing is right, tap the control stick back to drop off and then double-jump Dair in whatever way you see fit (jump button + A and down or control stick up + c-stick down). This works well against the vertical recoveries of many characters, as well as the multiple jumps of characters that can float/fly (except Meta Knight, be very careful about when you choose to do this against him).


~~~~~ Special Attacks ~~~~~

Eruption

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Note: The hitbox seen in the first image appears for the initial 3 frames of any Eruption that is not fully charged. The tiny hitbox near the bottom of the second image lingers for 5 frames after the first hitbox disappears, but only for an uncharged or partially charged Eruption. The last image is the hitbox of a fully charged Eruption, which remains unchanged for all 20 frames of the attack.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 30-37 (Uncharged) and 239-258 (Fully Charged)
Ends on Frame 58 (Uncharged) and 288 (Fully Charged)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 26-37% (Fully Charged)

Eruption is an attack that is similar to Dtilt in it’s uses (and lack of uses). It will deal 9% damage and has a fairly large hitbox uncharged. The hitbox does not change until it is fully charged, but the damage and knockback increases with every ‘whoosh’ sound you hear (there will be eight of them in total). Fully charged, the top of the explosion will deal the least damage at 26%, the middle will do 28%, and the largest hitbox at the bottom of the fire will do a whopping 37% damage; it should be noted that Ike will take 10% damage from a fully charged Eruption, but no damage from all earlier charge levels.

The primary use for Eruption is in edge-guarding. It has Super Armor frames (frames during which you cannot be affected by knockback) for 5 frames prior to the hitbox coming out, so if you time it correctly you can nullify any attack and immediately retaliate with the Eruption itself. Eruption is a terrible move to use if your opponent is waiting at a distance or has a projectile though, for pretty obvious reasons. In fact there is always a better option than using Eruption against a grounded opponent, it’s damage output uncharged is very low and charging it is risky.

It works best against recoveries that cannot snap to the ledge, similar to Dtilt. Unlike Dtilt, it can cover a large area vertically, which also makes it viable if you think your opponent will attack you from above upon returning to the stage, or hit you with their recovery move. Learning to time the Super Armor frames after charging is key to success at this.

If you manage to get a shield break on someone, charge your Eruption near them until you hear the seventh ‘whoosh’ sound (Ike will begin to flash rapidly) and then immediately release. This is referred to as a Flashing Eruption, and will cause more knockback than a fully charged Eruption. Obviously this, along with the fact that fully charging it will damage Ike by 10%, makes it much better to use on a shield break.


Quick Draw

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Rating: :ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 19-29 (Uncharged, No Contact)
Ends on Frame 42 (Uncharged, No Contact) and 77-87 (Uncharged, After Contact)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 16% (Fully Charged)

Quick Draw (or QD) is almost completely useless as an attacking move; however, it is a useful tool for some other purposes if applied properly. It can be charged indefinitely and cannot be canceled once charging begins (you have to release the attack). Uncharged, it will travel a little further than the length of a Battlefield platform and deal 9% damage on contact. Fully charged, it will traverse almost all of Battlefield itself and do 16% if it hits. It is possible to KO with QD at percents that are not totally unreasonable, but it is not a reliable KO move by any means.

Because of the terrible ending lag after hitting someone, hitting a shield, or getting interrupted by a spot-dodge, it is heavily advised to not use QD as an attack. In rare occasions in can be used as a mix-up for a tech-chase, due to it’s ability to charge forever and release quickly, but in most cases there is a safer and more rewarding option.

QD can, however, be used to quickly move across the stage in several different fashions. If you just knocked an opponent off-stage but are not close to the ledge yourself, immediately loosing a QD to close the gap and prepare for an edge-guard can really help. Doing a full-hop and then an uncharged QD to land on a distant platform (Battlefield height) is great for covering distance and gaining height at the same time.

Landing on a platform from a QD can quickly lead into other attacks, because QD does not have very much landing lag as long as you do not fall for a long time before hitting the ground (try to skim the surface of the platform as close as you can while in the QD animation). Landing so that you slide to the opposite edge of the platform helps further eliminate landing lag, allowing you to then immediately use an Utilt, Jab, walk-off aerial attack like Fair or Nair, or instantly pratfall and Bair to attack an opponent below the platform. The key is to never hit your opponent or their shield with the QD itself.


Aether

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Note: There are many frames of the hitbox skipped in between these images; this is only to show the general area covered. The first image shows the initial hitbox that lasts only 1 frame. The second last image shows the hitbox that acts as a weak spike, and will linger until Ike touches the ground or grabs a ledge. The last image shows the hitbox that only appears if Ike lands on the ground, not if he grabs a ledge; this hitbox sends opponents upward at an angle.[/collapse]

Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 18-77
Ends on Frame 110 (Grounded)
Damage: ?

Aether, aside from being Ike’s primary recovery move, is also useful as an offensive move in some sparse situations. The hitbox breaks for a frame or two occasionally but lasts for a total duration of 59 frames from the first hit to the last. It has pretty bad landing lag, which can be avoided by grabbing a ledge while coming down. It can deal anywhere from 1% to over 20% damage depending on how long your opponent is caught in it and what sections of the hitbox affect them (see the hitbox visual). Another thing to note is that Aether provides Super Armor frames from frame 18-38 of the animation.

One interesting thing about Aether is that if you land with it on a slope of the stage, you will slide down the slope, the total slide distance varying greatly from stage to stage. This obviously means that on some stages, you can reduce the risk factor of landing on-stage with Aether by sliding back or retreating after landing. Some stages this works well on are the beach sections of Delfino Plaza, the second transformation of Frigate Orpheon, the first part of Halberd, some sections of Castle Siege, the small slope near the bow of the Rainbow Cruise ship, and the small slopes on Brinstar.

Aether can also be used in platform sharking to some extent. It can be difficult to pressure platforms that are out of short-hop and ground attack range, but Aether, if used sparingly and carefully, can solve this issue. Use Aether from the ground or after a short-hop to attack platforms like the top one on Battlefield, some of the higher ones on Delfino Plaza, and the middle Brinstar platform. It will easily punish spot-dodges or rolls and deal a good amount of damage. If you think your opponent may shield it, do the Aether near the edge of the platform so you can then move back a bit and land down on the stage, making it harder to punish.

Other uses for Aether are occasional edge-guarding and mild planking. Because of it’s enormous vertical reach, you can catch an opponent who is recovering high above the ledge with an Aether and then grab the ledge yourself on the way down so that you are safe even if you missed. While Ike is coming down with Aether, the hitbox will spike (see the hitbox visual), making it a great edge-guard move for characters who lack vertical recovery, like DK, Bowser and Luigi after he has used his second jump. Aether will only spike successfully if you grab the ledge however; the hitbox for landing on the stage will pop your opponent up into the air.

As for planking, it can be dangerous on many stages, but stages that have a slope under the ledge are relatively safe for this. Basically, on a stage like Battlefield or Smashville, drop off the ledge and move in towards the stage a bit, using Aether from under the stage but not past where the slope ends. On his way up, Ike will slide back out to where the ledge is and grab it again on his way down. This means you can have the initial hitboxes for Aether further in on the stage, and then retreat back afterwards. Along with dealing some extra damage to opponent’s who wander too close to the ledge, this can be used to force opponents to retreat, giving you room to get up after recovering. Keep in mind though that after grabbing the ledge 5 times consecutively with Aether, you will just fall past the ledge for an SD.


Counter

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Rating: :ike::ike:
Effect on Frames 11-33
Ends on Frame 60
Damage: ?

Ike’s Counter is a very risky move to employ, and there is a better option for many of it’s conceivable uses. It will counter the opponent’s attack anywhere between frames 11 and 33, although frame 11 does not come fast enough for you to counter anything on reaction unless it is a very slow attack. It has pretty bad ending lag, and will deal 10% damage or more depending on how strong the countered attack was.

Since you cannot use this move on reaction for the vast majority of opponent’s attacks, you have to make hard reads if you want to connect with it, and then hope your opponent doesn’t read you back and punish. It is usually not worth it to use Counter against moves dealing moderate or weak damage (20% or less), since many of Ike’s other moves will do more damage and are safer. Counter can be used against some recoveries such as another Ike's, DK's, etc.

Obviously if a Ganondorf or Captain Falcon uses their punch, Counter away and watch them get knocked flying stronger than they would have done to you. Likewise if an opponent is charging a smash attack unwarily. Otherwise though, most uses of Counter are risky, situational, inconsistent or just not nearly as good as other options that Ike has available to him.


~~~~~ Throws ~~~~~

Pummel

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frame 5
Ends on Frame 25
Damage: 3%

Ike’s pummel is a great way to tack on some extra damage every time you grab your opponent. It will deal 3% damage fresh, and can safely be done a few times each grab after your opponent reaches 30-40%. Using your pummel will also refresh your other moves. Try to learn the timing of tapping A to pummel quickly, as opposed to just mashing the button; try it out in practice mode to see what rhythm allows Ike to pummel the fastest.

Forward Throw

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 5-6
Ends on Frame 24
Damage: 6%

Forward Throw (or Fthrow) has some uses at low and high percents, and is all-around very similar to Back Throw. This is Ike’s fastest throw to start and end, which is useful to know for doubles matches. It will do 6% damage fresh and could not possibly KO your opponent unless they were at ~800% and had a bad recovery. You can Fthrow almost all characters against a wall and re-grab them instantly until just over 100% damage.

Thankfully, Ike has other options to KO, and Fthrow’s primary uses are to string attacks at low percents and to get your opponent off-stage at high percents. Fthrow has no guaranteed follow-ups, but you can try following it up with another grab, an Nair or Usmash if you think they will spot-dodge, and a DA at middling to high percents. Fthrow is a good move in it's own right, but realistically you’ll want to use Back Throw more often. Fthrow once in awhile to deal an extra 6% if Back Throw gets stale.


Back Throw

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frame 20
Ends on Frame 33
Damage: 6%

Back Throw (or Bthrow) is Ike’s best throw and definitely the throw you should be using most often during matches. There are only 13 frames between when you throw your opponent and when you are able to perform an action, and the implications of this are outlined fully in the section Following up Throws later in the guide. Bthrow will deal 6% damage when it is fresh and also cannot be used to KO, even though it is somewhat stronger than Fthrow.

Bthrow can do everything Fthrow can, but better. At low percents you can reach your opponent quicker to re-grab if they shield or punish with Jabs/Nair if they spot-dodge. DA is a great follow-up to Bthrow and is even guaranteed on some characters at certain percents (more on that later in the guide as well). Bthrow followed up with a DA or even just Bthrow by itself near the ledge are excellent ways to get your opponent off-stage and prepare for an edge-guard.


Up Throw

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Rating: :ike:
Hits on Frame 26
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 6%

Ike’s Up Throw (or Uthrow) is a very useless throw when compared with his others. It’s only viable use is to toss your opponents onto a platform above you (to set up for sharking) once Down Throw becomes too strong for that purpose. The problem with Uthrow is that it takes so long to end, following it up is very difficult. Really you shouldn’t be using this throw at all considering your other options.

Down Throw

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Rating: :ike::ike::ike:
Hits on Frames 35-39
Ends on Frame 58
Damage: 6%

Down Throw (or Dthrow) is a good throw that has definite uses at low percents. You should not use Dthrow in a doubles match with another opponent nearby, due to how long it takes the hitbox to come out and just how long it takes in general. Like all of Ike’s other throws, Dthrow also deals 6% damage, but it can be used to KO as early as 160% if it’s fresh on a stage with a low ceiling. This does not make it a reliable KO move at all, more a last-ditch one if you can’t hit with anything else.

Dthrow can be used at low percents to pop opponents up onto platforms above you so that you can then shark them with other attacks. Even without platforms, you can follow up Dthrow with an Nair, Uair or Usmash at low percents, particularly if your opponent air-dodges and you manage to read it. Be aware that Dthrow can be influenced by DI very easily, even at low percents, so do not try anything like Aether after it, because it is not at all guaranteed and will likely get you punished.


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Nidtendofreak

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
7,265
Location
Belleville, Ontario
NNID
TheNiddo
3DS FC
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OBJECTION!

It is flat out impossible for Counter to be that bad. I demand it be 2 Ikes, not 1 Ike. It's not worse than Quick Draw.

But in all seriousness: Counter has it's uses. If an opponent is charging a smash attack on stage for his edgeguarding attempt: SHCounter onto there for a potentially easy kill. (I had so much fun doing that against a D3 who thought I was going to dropdown and use aether again. He was KO'd off the far blastzone). For a few recoveries in the game, you can use Counter against it off stage to send him into the dead zone if you can't get Dair there in time (Another Ike, DK to a lessor extent, ect. Not many, but they are there.) There is also the fact that due to it's relatively quick start up time, there are situations where it's the best way to punish a badly timed attack. And then there are the minor useful techniques with Counter: Counterdiving on Delfino, and hiding in the lava on Norfair.

All of it is rather situational, but it's overall more usable than QD. QD is only really useful on platform heavy stages, and only if your opponent isn't close enough to gimp it.
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Eh...

I'll wait for some more opinions. I just find I see Ike players using Quick Draw a lot more often than Counter. Like, a lot more often. I basically never use Counter and I see no need to in any situation. The situation you mentioned with DDD won't realistically happen too often at a high level of play, no one would just charge a smash near the edge of the stage when we have Aether planking... and it's generally not a good idea anyways. You can use Bair against DK's upB, it comes out even faster than Counter.

As for the shenanigans like the water/lava stuff, they're just that. Shenanigans. Quick Draw can be used effectively to move quickly across a stage, and it is possible in some situations to use it as an attack. Plus it gets a slight bonus for being a mediocre recovery mix-up.

Anyways, we'll wait for some more opinions on that. And remember that the rating system isn't rating the quality or usefulness of the move, it's rating how often you should be using the move in competition. I don't think it's ever necessary or more beneficial than other options to use Counter in competition.


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