How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[-Smash King-93]

the only ike thread i noticed abit off topic here. lol

 

[Foodies]

...and you aren't exactly helping xP

And if I just posted that, I wouldn't be helping either. So, writeups on "useless showboating" for returning to the stage from the ledge!

For Niddo:
[collapse=add this under ledgehop]

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Quickdraw – A mixup that you shouldn’t be using too often, since it can be easily punished. As with any use of QD, you shouldn’t be aiming to hit with the actual attack. This can be used to get back onto the stage quickly (c wut i did der) if your opponent is far away from the ledge. If they are close enough to be hit by the actual attack, they are close enough for you to do something else instead.
[/collapse]

This one really is useless imo...
[collapse= add this under stalling]

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Reverse Quickdraw – You can actually stall using this technique, although it isn’t that safe. Drop off the ledge, double jump and QD at the ledge (away from the stage) to grab it. If you screw up, you die. If your opponent edgehogs you, you die. Yeah, only use this when you don’t care who wins or just want to show off. Double jumping to regrab the ledge is much safer
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Not sure if you even want to add the second one to the guide, but the more you know, right?

 

[Rykoshet]

...that movie looked dumb lol

Your FACE looks dumb

 

[NT 3000]

Your FACE looks dumb

:D nooooo. ryko was it good though? maybe ill go see it

 

[Rykoshet]

I loved it, saw it 4 times. I'm a huge sp nerd though.

 

[AN(M)ist]

This one really is useless imo...
[collapse= add this under stalling]

​

Reverse Quickdraw – You can actually stall using this technique, although it isn’t that safe. Drop off the ledge, double jump and QD at the ledge (away from the stage) to grab it. If you screw up, you die. If your opponent edgehogs you, you die. Yeah, only use this when you don’t care who wins or just want to show off. Double jumping to regrab the ledge is much safer
[/collapse]

Not sure if you even want to add the second one to the guide, but the more you know, right?

How is that reverse? nyways, if the opponent is waiting for you and not near the ledge, we could use alter this to come onstage and close the distance as it has minimal lag and is relatively safer than rolling back on stage. thts one plausible use i could think of. And whch bro\ings you back to you,re first point,,,,,, so yeah it seems pretty useless.

what you guys think of ledgehang>jump cancel counter? it does seem useful when someone is charging an attack near the ledge.

 

[theeboredone]

Jump cancel counter is beautiful to use when it works. However, make sure you know your opponents habits before making that decision. Definitely enjoy doing it on charging F-smashes from Ike or DDD.

 

[Foodies]

The explanation might be unclear, if someone wants to fix that go ahead. It's reverse because you actually go under the stage, so you need to QD the other way to grab the ledge. It's not just dropping off and double jumping with QD to grab the ledge, because that would be even more useless. Wish I knew a video that showed it...

And I think what you are talking about is the ledgehopped QD, which I talked about earlier in that post. And if by ledgehang>jump cancel counter you mean ledgehop counter, that's already in the guide. If you mean ledgejump counter, I think it might be a bit slower than ledgehop counter, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[AN(M)ist]

ledge jump QD: ledgehang>analog back>jump~sideB, so tht you QD onstage with minimal lag (good followup could be utilt maybe). but wutever, ledgejump nair onstage is a nice alternative.

I was talking about ledgehop counter (both are nearly the same in use i believe, except that the first one gives the false impression of ledgehopping). i noticed it in the guide, I just wanted to know ppls opinion on its usefulness (never saw san do it in a tourney; but then, he rarely uses counter).

i had a fun time with it at my college when one guy fell for it then yelled "OOOO IT WAS A TRAP!".

 

[Ussi]

ledge hop counter sucks, but still works cause its unexpected. But it works only once before the opponent just plays around it...

 

[jamlosingthegame]

How about ledge release > second jump > Fair > land onstage? Providing the opponent is a reasonable distance and has taken considerable damage? Or did we already cover that. My memory of what's in this guide sucks.

Would a Fair be a good way to keep opponents away from the edge upon returning, or does it work when it's unexpected?

 

[Yamato Hong]

Would a Fair be a good way to keep opponents away from the edge upon returning, or does it work when it's unexpected?

I have a habit f-airing as an edgeguard, even run-off f-air sometimes. It works for me in some situations, but I only tested this on Wi-fi with anyone mode.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I was talking about returning onstage. I believe both of those as edgeguard options were covered.

 

[Foodies]

We covered that, Jam. It's the ledgehop fair under the returning to the stage section. Though I didn't really write that much on it xD

 

[Yamato Hong]

I was talking about returning onstage. I believe both of those as edgeguard options were covered.

Oops, sorry. Was reading too fast! ^-^

Keeping opponents away as we return onstage, f-air's range is superb and anyone attempting to edgeguard this would probably be forced to shield or dodge. We could mix this up with Aether.

EDIT: I guess it's all dependent on how the f-air is used and timed.

 

[metroid1117]

By the way, about edgehopping NAir... if you get someone offstage at low %s and edgehog so that they're forced to go for the stage, you can edgehop NAir to pop them up and then punish accordingly. If they like to airdodge, then you can bait it by charging an USmash, if they like to attack to momentum cancel then you can BAir, etc.

 

[IkeFiend]

Last time I checked... Ikes usually killed themselves by accidently 'Nair'ing while falling... The delay isn't too long to the point you'll Nair yourself to death?

 

[Foodies]

Edgehopping Nair. You'll land on the stage. Unless you mess up of course xP

 

[metroid1117]

Edgehopping Nair. You'll land on the stage. Unless you mess up of course xP

You can actually survive an edgehopped NAir if you don't land on the stage, but it's pretty difficult to do and leaves you very open for an edgehog.

 

[-RedX-]

Adding some vids:
Red-X (Ike) vs Arrys/Blaze (Pit)
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKusUMflYUw
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZzVQz5WzZs

vs Kirin (Link)
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp5U1yn2Ysg
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Cy4wOrHbU
Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWBQCfxQ7lU
Game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8UJBnXeCyc

vs Jash (Link)
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1j-i4u80Cg
Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xQA7DszTdc
Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcI6vmvCGyE
Game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYgERvTIF4

 

[theeboredone]

I'm surprised that Pit didn't attempt to camp/plank hard.

 

[Rykoshet]

In your first match with kirin, there were a number of times where just jumping back and ledgehogging would have given you the stock that going out for the fair didn't.

Also since I notice you like riding the gale boomerang. Although it doesnt flinch, the windbox produced by it coming back can be countered at any time to produce an approaching invincible hitbox. Not the most practical of things but it does have a use at times to get past another projectile or any hit really, since countering also stops you from being grabbed on activation.

 

[-RedX-]

Also since I notice you like riding the gale boomerang. Although it doesnt flinch, the windbox produced by it coming back can be countered at any time to produce an approaching invincible hitbox. Not the most practical of things but it does have a use at times to get past another projectile or any hit really, since countering also stops you from being grabbed on activation.

When countering the windbox of a returning boomerang, doesn't Ike counter-attack the other way?
That's pretty useful though.

 

[Rykoshet]

When countering the windbox of a returning boomerang, doesn't Ike counter-attack the other way?
That's pretty useful though.

Yeah but the boomerang is going to pull you literally on top of link and the hitbox hits slightly behind him so it should connect.

 

[Teh Brettster]

That's fun. I never thought to counter it because I knew the counter would go the other way. Maybe I'll try that for fun next time I friendly a Link.

 

[Rykoshet]

yeah it's really impractical but generally anything out of riding the gale (aside from maybe fsmash attempt) is.

In this long *** video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4goJzib4UQ#t=6m50s
the link blows himself up before the counter connects but had he not done so it would have.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I was just wondering. Would Eruption be good as an anti-air? In my head I can see Ike going for an aerial, but some characters who might be able to hit him before he hits them. With Eruption, not only does he have SAF, but the hitbox is pretty big vertically, so there's no need to get that close to the opponent. If not really a good anti-air, maybe used as a mixup anti-air move? Just something I was thinking about today. I should try it sometime and get results.

 

[theeboredone]

I was just wondering. Would Eruption be good as an anti-air? In my head I can see Ike going for an aerial, but some characters who might be able to hit him before he hits them.

Hit them first. Ike's moves have a lot of priority and range. Just be faster.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

So then mix-up I suppose. I've sill yet to test it though.

 

[Heartstring]

learn to bait airdodges with u-air, i personally think that its a massively underated move and is his second most reliable kill move (behind b-air)

 

[Rykoshet]

If you're going to use a move as an anti air, ike's up smash is probably your best choice as it puts him closer to the ground, minimizing his hurt box and obviously swings upward.

 

[DTK.L]

For anyone trying to come down on you just go with Utilt to juggle them in the air and as golden psycho said bait for an airdodge and follow with a Uair.

 

[Heartstring]

the only person that up smash wont work as anti air on wud robably be fox because he can shine stall till youre forced to release the attack

 

[AN(M)ist]

...or character's with multiple jumps.

@DTK: juggle with utilt? like follow up with wut moves? i don't see how ike can juggle at all with one aerial per jump.

btw, i'm surprised on how long ike can hold his fsmash. if any character with multiple jumps is above ike and has used 2 of their jumps, ike could charge his fsmash and it won't go off till they used all their jump (assuming they stay above ike and keep on using their jumps in order to stall then punish).

 

[Heartstring]

yeah but if they use the jump you can let go of the smash, let it happen and be safe by the time they come back down, jumping adds height
whereas shining just stalls and fox can fall at the speed of light anyway

 

[san.]

Fox you need to full hop fair or even bair from afar (maybe even nair).

I like using jab2 sometimes against short hop approaches, because after jab 1, you can choose to do jab2 if you think they are going to attack or just stop.

I don't like using the tilts so much for anti-air. Easiest to pressure with nair from below, bait air dodges.

 

[Heartstring]

would think that if anyone airdodge to ground u-tilt would be amazing because its hitbox lingers forever. tends to be a godsend against people spotdodging on a platform (if theyre stupid enough to do so)
better there than for anti-air

i swear eruption needs to be look into though, the saf would surely means its a good move to use if youre about to clash with someone, and it is pretty powerful too

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Then how about edge guarding? SAF could help against get-up attacks from the ledge too. Though I suppose spotdodging then punishing with ftilt might be better.

 

[theeboredone]

The use for eruption as an edge guard has already been discussed. To sum it up in general...

1. There are better options than Eruption.
2. Only time you should use eruption is against Squirtle. He doesn't sweet spot, so if you time your eruption right, instant kill.

 

[Rykoshet]

the only person that up smash wont work as anti air on wud robably be fox because he can shine stall till youre forced to release the attack

If fox shines because you ran near/under him, just aether his ***. Free 22, why not. Rookie stopped doing that immediately after a while because of that.

Just because aether isn't a good dragon punch doesn't change that it is a dragon punch.