How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[jamlosingthegame]

Never again will I try to walk-off Fair on Wifi. Lag makes it not frame perfect and I failed to Aether back.

 

[Nysyarc]

Never again will I try to walk-off Fair on Wifi. Lag makes it not frame perfect and I failed to Aether back.

There is a bit of leniency for a walk-off Fair and quite a lot of leniency for a walk-off Dair, so the attack doesn't have to start right as soon as you leave the ground; it can be better to wait a few frames for a walk-off Dair in a lot of cases. In fact, Ike can drop from the ledge (while hanging) and immediately use a Bair or Dair and then double-jump -> Aether to just barely grab the ledge. I believe this maneuver does have to be frame perfect or at least very close though.

I've managed to survive a drop down Dair once in a competitive match (of course you also need to use Tilt Stick), and I don't go for it at all basically, unless it's my opponent's last stock and I'm up a stock or two.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I survived a drop down Bair once, but I haven't been able to replicate it, hahahaha.

 

[Heartstring]

i won't even try, i'd jsut die all the time XD

quick question, if we walkoff dair, can we get back onstage without having to use the ledge?
yknow, jsut in terms of ptad

oh by the way. when its raining on distant planet, we can do this funky thnig where we land on the slope with the rain going down using aether and we slide all the way over to the other side so we can jsut aether again and grab that ledge, maybe a possible method of escaping constant attacks from mk/marth/etc.

 

[YagamiLight]

oh by the way. when its raining on distant planet, we can do this funky thnig where we land on the slope with the rain going down using aether and we slide all the way over to the other side so we can jsut aether again and grab that ledge, maybe a possible method of escaping constant attacks from mk/marth/etc.

This sounds good in theory but: How are Marth and Meta Knight edge guarding you from the slope when it's raining?

I've been thinking of three questions, tell me if you think you know the answer:

1) We know Breversed Counter reverses horizontal momentum to an extent. How does this apply to vertical momentum (specifically: after being spiked and after fastfalling).

2) How does the retaliation of a Breversed counter differ from a regular one, if at all?

3) What possible grab release combos are available thanks to the increased speed Ike has from continuously using the initial dash instead of the full run? CG on MK? Easier CG on Squirtle? Foxtrot to reversed Up tilt KO?

food4thought

 

[Heartstring]

This sounds good in theory but: How are Marth and Meta Knight edge guarding you from the slope when it's raining?

I've been thinking of three questions, tell me if you think you know the answer:

1) We know Breversed Counter reverses horizontal momentum to an extent. How does this apply to vertical momentum (specifically: after being spiked and after fastfalling).

2) How does the retaliation of a Breversed counter differ from a regular one, if at all?

3) What possible grab release combos are available thanks to the increased speed Ike has from continuously using the initial dash instead of the full run? CG on MK? Easier CG on Squirtle? Foxtrot to reversed Up tilt KO?

food4thought

erm...i dunno, how about edgehogging then? they will want to grab the ledge and force you to fall to your death i suppose

1) i know if slows vertical momentum after fastfalling, i'm not so sure on spiking, if its for recovery purposes, we're probably better off just aethering

2) oh i know this one, the attack strength doesnt change at all, it just puts you in a different position when you get attacked, so technically the hitbox is different too

3) no idea, ask someone with the hacked brawl thingy about this

 

[YagamiLight]

erm...i dunno, how about edgehogging then? they will want to grab the ledge and force you to fall to your death i suppose

1) i know if slows vertical momentum after fastfalling, i'm not so sure on spiking, if its for recovery purposes, we're probably better off just aethering

2) oh i know this one, the attack strength doesnt change at all, it just puts you in a different position when you get attacked, so technically the hitbox is different too

3) no idea, ask someone with the hacked brawl thingy about this

1) If you have time later on, would you mind testing some aspects of the BReversed counter against different movement and launch trajectories (up, down, horizontal)?

2) Explain in more detail, please.

3) I'll probably just do this myself in a month, haha.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I think what GP said about the Breversed counter is that it's the same, just facing a different direction because it's reversed. That's what I think though.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Ehh, we've tested counter with momentum cancelling, remember? We concluded it's best to use normal cancelling.

Also, I sort of like your ideas about foxtrot stuff, but the examples you gave wouldn't work out because we really only use the dash animation for those things anyway. Especially grab releasing on MK. The dash attack executed with the same speed as Bthrow to dash attack. Which means dash only, no run. ANYthing else and it would be simply too slow.

 

[YagamiLight]

Ehh, we've tested counter with momentum cancelling, remember? We concluded it's best to use normal cancelling.

Also, I sort of like your ideas about foxtrot stuff, but the examples you gave wouldn't work out because we really only use the dash animation for those things anyway. Especially grab releasing on MK. The dash attack executed with the same speed as Bthrow to dash attack. Which means dash only, no run. ANYthing else and it would be simply too slow.

Well, we tested counter with momentum cancelling but just to get a better idea of how it works I'd like to see how it applies to rapid vertical movement, namely being spiked or fastfalling.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Dash Attack works because it relies on the first frame of the intial dash, not the progression into a full run. But some aspects of grab releases (Squirtle's lasts 24 frames, for instance) allow for a difference in effectiveness depending on whether you choose to foxtrot it or full sprint it. Other things include that you would effectively be able to run up to Squirtle if you were only foxtrotting the whole time and then do a reverse pivot grab while moving in that direction, effectively being an infinite. Besides that, the ability to reverse crouch during an initial dash could set up possible things such as Fthrow to Dash Reverse Jab or Bthrow to Bair (as the crouching during the initial dash will give more distance tot he Bair than simply turning around). And, finally, at high percentages Bthrow gives up to 26 frames of advantage, meaning that the initial dash has the ability to improve things there.

I know it looks as if I'm grasping but it's more me trying to cover all the bases.

 

[AN(M)ist]

@yagami... where r u in california? I want to meet you, and research the ike metagame together.

 

[Heartstring]

yeah ill have a look, although at the moment i SWEAR i have found some dodgy aether stuff on ice, ill get back to you on that.

can anyone else guess im bored at the moment? XD

 

[Heartstring]

ohkay sorry for the double post, but as for counter stopping vertical momentum...

fastfall: stops you completely on frame 1 and then you continue to fall normally after that

spiked: you slow yourself down to normal fall speed

ALSO,
we have this wierd thing on ice where if you dash-shield, and then about a 1/4 of a second after your shield drops you input a f-smash in the opposite direction your travelling (have to be using A+direction) you change your momentum. its only useful on ps2 but might be an interesting thnig to use for a surprise kill against an attacking opponent

 

[YagamiLight]

@yagami... where r u in california? I want to meet you, and research the ike metagame together.

NorCal, South Bay Area.

If I'm ever in San Diego I'll give you a heads up. Then we'll trash a tourney
as double Ike.

ohkay sorry for the double post, but as for counter stopping vertical momentum...

fastfall: stops you completely on frame 1 and then you continue to fall normally after that

spiked: you slow yourself down to normal fall speed

ALSO,
we have this wierd thing on ice where if you dash-shield, and then about a 1/4 of a second after your shield drops you input a f-smash in the opposite direction your travelling (have to be using A+direction) you change your momentum. its only useful on ps2 but might be an interesting thnig to use for a surprise kill against an attacking opponent

1) Is this BReversed?

2) Is this BReversed AND how fast does it take effect?

3) Saw the topic in tactical. Good find.

 

[Heartstring]

1&2) tried b-reversal on both, doesnt effect vertical momentum, and seeing as i was going straight down, it did absolutely nothing different

3) thanks

also, as for other ice skating shenanigans ike has...

moves that stop momentum on ice:
jab (when it finishes)
down-smash (instantly)
aether (instantly)
f-smash (end of move)

increases speed:
counter (you quickly slow during teh move though)

reverses momentum:
reversed f-smash (using A+direction)

yeah...i've been messing about on ice XD

 

[Mr. Doom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxvxY0MWJuw

 

[Foodies]

NorCal, South Bay Area.

Really? That's around where I live too. We should meet up sometime and play/test things.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Norcal eh... Well itll be great if you come to sd sometime,. There r hardly any ike main here

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I actually try to land a sliding fsmash for lulz on ice.

 

[IkeFiend]

I'm so stupid; I never realized this thing was here... And yet, it's so epic.

@ Niddo, I fought a ZSS yesterday on PS2 and Fsmashed her on the ice-- owned her at that. She was on the far left ledge and I was just like two inches away (screenwise).

I would take my time to read the crap I need to read.... When I find that time.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

@ Niddo, I fought a ZSS yesterday on PS2 and Fsmashed her on the ice-- owned her at that. She was on the far left ledge and I was just like two inches away (screenwise).

:D

Not sure why that was directed as me, but cool. Yays for sliding Fsmashes!

 

[IkeFiend]

OH LOL, I don't know why I said Niddo when I meant Jam!!! XD!!

 

[Teh Brettster]

Dang. ****.

LoL next character better be a squishy offensive character. They've made too many tanky people lately.

 

[Ussi]

Alright guys, now that I'm done with Apex, i'm gonna be going full throttle on this guide and revamping it bit. I learned a lot at Apex and plan to put that in the guide.

 

[Heartstring]

most of all, america biggest lesson was to l2olimar

 

[san.]

Maybe that's true for us, too (learning tricks against our worst matchups)

That's how I managed to do fairly well vs Falcos and Snakes.

Ike has dominant range in most of his moves. It just depends on the creative ways in which we decide to use them.

 

[Heartstring]

well range and power is the only thing really gonig for ike in general i suppose.

but waht are the 'dreative' ways of using range that youre on about?

 

[san.]

Spacing to avoid blocks, nair to cover both aerials and air dodges, shield poking and platform pressure. Retreating just about any aerial even if you miss, timing jabs and looking at possible jump/aerial opportunities and timing for landing lag, offstage aerial pressure and on ledges, and pivot upsmash. Getting to know how much attacks will push shields, uses for even peculiar attacks like dash attack and ftilt.

Ike doesn't even need to use any moves with lag. He'll still have above average range and have a large increase in maneuverability and spacing by simply relying mostly on bair, nair, jabs, and grabs and occasional other moves.

Jabs at least 16% or more with smart jab canceling
Low % combos, especially from nair and partly dthrow, mid % (~65-83 weight dependent) bthrow-->dash attack (18-20% damage), mid% smash kills, jab to kill setups and bair/tilts to edge fair kills and uair platform kills.

 

[Ussi]

Ike's dash attack is now known as throat stab.

On floaties i think we shouldn't jab cancel at all and just full jab combo or jab > utilt

If they DI up and they are a floaties, you can't even do jab 1 > jab 1 > rest of jab combo cause they are too high to be hit by jab 2

 

[AN(M)ist]

throat stab O.o

San, did u get to play any pro peach main? i wanna know if peach really has any sort of advantage on ike (something which he cannot over come by his other moves/traits).
Also, did you or Ussi happen to see _X_ , a real pro sonic main?

 

[Ussi]

I don't think X went. I played Nicole, Dark Peach, Praxis and peachKid, San played Praxis in friendlies i think.

I personally think i let myself get frame trapped too much. I just have too many holes in my gameplay atm. But i'm gonna go with its 55:45 Peach just cause I keep getting stich face and bom-omb *****.

I have one replay against praxis where i got to 234% cause i got hit by the stich face 3 times. (I survived all 3 times cause i got pro survival skills)

 

[AN(M)ist]

lol, reminds me of the time when this one guy (forget his name, he's a really good snake player) played a friendly with peach and owned me with stitch face,, tht thing is such a pain.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

(I survived all 3 times cause i got pro survival skills)

Did you acquire Mr. Doom Sucky SDI?

 

[Ussi]

not his SDI, i just got good momentum canceling

 

[san.]

The matches against Praxis were from a MM.

I was surviving fresh fairs at 180. It was lulz.

 

[Ussi]

how did that go?

 

[san.]

I won 2-1. Praxis pulled a nice comeback from a sizable lead on battlefield 2nd match. No matter how hard he tried, I never really got gimped, only KO'd.

Making sure not to whiff attacks and space your aerials/jabs are a must. I still think the MU is around even. I'm not sure whether to play aggressively against peach in the air or patiently. I was trying out a few different things on Praxis. Surprised he never did the falling fair-->double slap. When I remembered to ask him about it, couldn't find him.

I definitely recommend taking the initiative with Peach when she's offstage, because from what I can tell, there's not much she can do other than try to get back, and our massive range helps us try to get hits in. Full hop fairs, reverse aethers, etc.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Did Nicole mention about me, Ussi?

 

[Ussi]

She said she knew an Ike who used attack stick when she saw me make my controls, but that can't be you lololol

 

[YagamiLight]

Really? That's around where I live too. We should meet up sometime and play/test things.

Oh, cool.

Since I assume you're in IL for most of the year, we might have to meet up (go to a big tourney?) around winter break time.