How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[theeboredone]

You mean back when you actually attended events?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yes, all the way back then.

I can't even apply for a job right now: need to renew my permit. ;_;

 

[AN(M)ist]

So wuts gonna happen to this guide? been like 2-3 months since anyone did anything here. The OP needs a little 'dusting' if you ask me.

EDIT: why does Mr. Doom have a snake face under his pic? he changing mains now?

 

[Ussi]

Taking suggustions on what to change/how to organize now!


Also gonna work out the mental aspect a bit. ..


Maybe after some domination though

 

[AN(M)ist]

I want to analyze a few follow-up options of Ike's DA, lets see now:

1) DA to IDA is a decent follow-up that catches enemy offguard. What other followups do you guys suggest if the opponent does DI, sheild, dodge, wuteva. My suggestions are:
(Note: opponent has to be at low percents (13-20))

a) Opponent DIs up: Ike can SHfair forward.

b) Opponent sheild: Ike can dash grab. seeing that DA's initial frames look like dash the opponents most prolly will be deceived by it.

c) Opponent air-dodges: I'm kinda skeptical about this. If we buffer the second DA, the opponent shouldn't be able to get to the ground and have time to air-dodge. the only thing they can pull out is a perfect shield.

d) Opponent techs: If they tech on-spot, grabbing seems an option but I think IDA should be able to hit them. If they tech towards you, well, we can dash forward and pivot grab. If they tech away, keep running and hit DA them when the tech finishes.

The way I see it, they'll mostly shield this attack rather than tech it. So the thing we must be looking out the most would be the shield and when to grab or IDA. This will be hard. the IDA has to be done immediately after the first DA so we don't have time to react to opponents. So i think we should hit them once or twice with it and then do mindgames (btw, seeing that this move only works at low percents, we would only be able to pull it once or twice per stock).

 

[theeboredone]

I don't like those suggestions, because it's all based on opponent tendencies and your reading ability. On top of that, the opponent still has a chance to avoid these follow ups. It's like me saying, if an opponent is hanging on the edge, we can reverse f-smash if they roll, shield grab their get up attack, or do d-air if they try to jump off the edge.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Sure they have a chance to avoid followups, but they are hard pressed to do it in a small time frame, which limits their actions to basic and quick stuffs like shield, tech, jump and dodge. Since we are executing our moves and we know that they'll be doing either one of the four things, we can predict and punish their reactions accordingly.

 

[Ussi]

I will not include follow ups that require the opponent to not know the MU. Cause if they do know it, then well you just left yourself open to get punished hard as dash attack has bad post lag.

 

[AN(M)ist]

wait, you're talking about the initial DA or the IDA?

DA in general is punishable on shield but then, it isn't a bad option overall. Assuming we do hit them with a DA at low percents, then it is always good to know the followup options.

I mean, sure we can do the jab shenanigans on them at low percents, but Ike isn't restricted to jabs only. He does have other moves that are effective though they need more precision and timing; and exploring those options is what I'm trying to do.

 

[Heartstring]

but anyone who knows the ike matchup will know that all followups are avoidable, i think thats the point that theyre trying to make

 

[Ussi]

follow ups on the guide at least don't put you in an easily punishable position. bthrow > dash attack is guarenteed at % which is why its up. Notice I didn't put up fthrow > dash attack

DA to IDA isn't actually a great follow up if the person knows the MU. I only ever get that to ever work in wifi anyways.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Followups in general are avoidable. That's why they aren't called combos. Its more like an even situation where choosing between two options (prediction) is important for both the players. If the first player succeeds, the other will be punished and vice-versa.

I'm discussing what moves will be effective as followups when DA connects at low percents, kinda like how uptilt is an effective followup after jab 1 if the opponent DIs up.

EDIT: That was the reason of me searching for followups for Ike's DA at low percents; which followups are effective so that they minimize punishment and maximize effectiveness. The above ones were my suggestions but you guys are welcome to come up with the ones which are more effective.

 

[Ussi]

jab 1 > utilt is a true combo with no frame leeway if the person doesn't jump in the first place

 

[Heartstring]

guides are meant to be simple things really, they dont need al of the really srs stuff, just ratings of moves, when they should be used, etc.
i suggest looknig at the ganon boards guide, thats probably the best one ive come across

 

[AN(M)ist]

jab 1 to utilt isn't a true combo. If it was the opponents wouldn't be able to jump out of it.

nyways, I'm asking for effective followups to further the usefulness of Ike's moves. This does not have to be in the OP, just available so that ppl. would know what followups are effective after particular moves.

In other words, what can Ike after he hits with his DA to keep his momentum going.

 

[Ussi]

Not everyone jumps due to reaction lag and if someone tries to jump AD right away, you can bait that even harder. They might just start DIing a different direction to save their jump instead.

Know what, I can put however, using dash attack to punish people landing onto the ground

 

[Heartstring]

D's main use is following up b-throw, and then its a rush option to reach a retreating opponent whos gonna get raked when they land

 

[theeboredone]

Followups in general are avoidable. That's why they aren't called combos. Its more like an even situation where choosing between two options (prediction) is important for both the players. If the first player succeeds, the other will be punished and vice-versa.

This. Why would you wanna put something based on prediction on this guide? You can put anything then based on prediction. The only thing that would make sense is doing things like jab to up-tilt because you can see the motion develop due to continuously jabbing them. Once you see it develop, up-tilt is nearly guaranteed. It's a much safer option than what you're recommending. 4 opportunities...if your reading skills are even, then you are rolling the dice by playing a guessing game with each other. You're not narrowing your opponent into a corner between one or two decisions.

Edit: DA follow ups should be meant for more advanced players anyways.

 

[AN(M)ist]

My discussion is meant for advanced players. I've mentioned about the OP thing in my previous post. And you have already narrowed your opponents option by successfully hitting them with DA at low percents. I tested this thing out again: Only thing that can save the opponent from IDA followup is shield and forward/backward tech. Everything else (including jump) will get them hit again. So now your followup option boils down to either IDA or grab. This is a good situation for Ike if you ask me.

Prediction...yeah, you can pull out anything by predicting right, but effective followups shouldn't just be ignored just because opponent has a chance of getting out of it. Only reason I wrote this thing in this thread was that I saw it relevant to Ike's metagame. btw, why are we are keeping this guide for beginners only? how about we make one advanced tactics section for mediocre and veteran Ike players. Afterall, this guide is supposed to wholly cover Ike.

 

[Heartstring]

if youre advanced with ike, you wont be reading a guide, the only thing i use guides for now are frame data and i dont think i warrant the title of advanced, more the case of experienced than anything

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I should look through this again. I'm still a noob.

 

[AN(M)ist]

........right, if you're already an experienced player, then you don't need a guide. But that does not mean discussions shouldn't be carried out or noted. Ike's jab to dtilt near the ledge is never guaranteed, nor is it necessary for beginners to know. So does that mean new players or even experienced one should not know that such an option exists?

I agree the followup for DA is not safe as the ones for jab. The opponents can react back if they predict better, but really their prediction won't yield anything we cannot handle. Think about this again: you are hitting them with DA and putting them in a situation where they could either shield or tech roll (assuming they know that Ike's IDA will hit them if they try anything else; if they don't then its a free 7 percent). They can't punish you after they tech roll, so the only thing you have to worry about is their shield, for which my suggestion is grab. If you guys know anything better than grabbing a shield, go ahead. I'm all for making the most use out of Ike's moves.

 

[Heartstring]

discussions happen in the social thread more often than not, its less of a social (because ike just isnt a social guy) and more 'metagame enhancement' thread

 

[Chocalate Covered Bacon]

This was actually one of the better guides I have seen, it covers everything and has helped out quite a lot! Thanks and please keep it up! I can finally beat my bro.

 

[Heartstring]

and there is a thank-you directed towards this guide, cheers bacon ^.^

 

[Ussi]

3 of us here don't eat bacon.

jab > dtilt is pretty legit though cause of the options the other person has to avoid it. Jab > dair has resulted from it

 

[Teh Brettster]

Unfortunately for bacon, I EAT BACON FOR BREAKFAST.


That might sound less threatening since I actually do eat bacon for breakfast....

 

[Heartstring]

i eat bacon whenever possibly, this place near my college does giant breakfast sandwiches with large meaty peices of bacon in it for one measly pound, god it delicious

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I eat bacon only for breakfast whenever it's a school day. Other than that, I have no concept of breakfast.

 

[AN(M)ist]

enough of the bacons, you guys should eat cereals for breakfast; way more nutritious and healthy.

Ussi, you want me to do a section on classic and classic pro controllers? I'm using a classic pro now since I finally got one from gamestop. It's really the same as gamecube except a few alterations that I would point out.


And, about the DA discussion... I'll get back to that on Ashunera's. I still think you guys should look a bit deeper into that move though, its not bad at all there is still some use that has still to come out of it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bacon!

And cereal isn't more healthy. You have to throw away all of the high sugar ones, and that leaves you with what, 2 types of cereal after that?

 

[Ussi]

Write it up An(M)ist!

I used to cook eggs every single day for myself, then I got lazy and now only cook it on days I know i need a lot of energy.

 

[AN(M)ist]

You kidding? Any dietitian will tell you that milk with cereals like cornflakes and cheerios is much better than bacon. And a great way to start you day too (*becomes mommy*).

EDIT: right, expect one tomorrow.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I used to take two waffles, and stuff scrambled eggs and bacon in between them, cover them in syrup, and eat it like a sandwich.

I don't have an appetite that big anymore. ;_;

EDIT:

You kidding? Any dietitian will tell you that milk with cereals like cornflakes and cheerios is much better than bacon. And a great way to start you day too (*becomes mommy*).

Incorrect. The amount of sugar in cereal screws you over so badly it's not even funny. It doesn't even sustain you for a long time, as the body goes through carbs much faster than protein. Bacon + Glass of milk >>> Cereal.

 

[AN(M)ist]

so......american! Things I eat for breakfast mainly revolves around sunny-side-up eggs with pita bread and orange juice and altering that whole thing with cereals every other day.

 

[Ussi]

Niddo is a full blown Texan after hearing that or used to be one at least.

 

[AN(M)ist]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pr...meats-unprocessed-heart-disease-diabetes.html

http://nutritional-habits.com/best-healthy-cereals

Bottomline: Bacon's health issues outweigh cereals health benefits.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Niddo is a full blown Texan after hearing that or used to be one at least.

I ate that back in Canada though. I lost my ability to do so by the time I moved to Texas. ;_; Same with my ability to eat Double Big Macs with a Rolo Milkshake on the side...

Now I eat maybe half that much? I've still never weighed more than 135 pounds...and that was only after the 3 week long trip to Texas, eating fastfood the whole way. Stupid pitstops and visiting so many places...I went back to 120 in like a week. lol. Yays for metabolism?

@Mist: no they don't. Just don't be stupid with the amount of bacon and eat a sandwich with bacon weave for bread. Protein is always better than carbs. Carbs do nothing for your body except for pure energy. Protein is required for everything in your body to function, repair itself, strengthen itself, ect. That's why the Akins(sp?) diet works so well. By taking low cards, you force your body to go through fats next. Keeping the protein high prevents the minor risk of taking muscle damage.

Just took a semester of Bio with this in there dang it, don't question me!

 

[AN(M)ist]

Is breakfast the only thing you eat for the day?

I take proteins for my lunch and dinner and that is really enough for me. Did you read the links? I'm highlighting the health issues of eating bacon and all other processed meat. Bacon may have more proteins than cereals but cereals do not give you health risks; that's what makes cereals better. Plus, you are eating proteins the other half of your day. So your really missing out nothing except the high cholesterol.

Wuts up with comparing your bio class and those studies??? they surely have done more research than you did.

 

[Ussi]

Out of my guide NOW!

Quote > copy > go to Ashunera's > paste in quick reply > type in reply > post