How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

[Ussi]

Added Part I.V "Advanced Technical inputs and buffering" and refined "dealing with ledge hangers"


anyone wanna add to Part I.V do tell.


EDIT: **** first post is ruined.. gonna try to fix that... sharkie.. hope you have your moveset analysis and platform game saved... otherwise you'll have to reformat the text and colors again >_>//


edit2: .. one missing collapse tag equals disaster .. x.x I tried to get the guide what it used to be but meh...

 

[Nysyarc]

Lol, what happened? I'm pretty sure it's posted elsewhere in the thread with all the tags so no worries.

Edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10733772&postcount=246

There. I'll edit it back into the OP later.

 

[Ussi]

my god, thank god for posting it in a post too x.x, I accidentally removed a [/collapse] and your moveset analysis is just uber long and exceeds the character limit o___o I had no idea characters in collapse don't count for it

 

[WeretigerX]

Ike "apparently" is a WiFi god? Not even close. Lag screws up all of Ike's timing (His auto-canceled Bair is actually a dangerous move because you don't know if you can do it or not). A lot of times, you will try a SH nair and it won't come out at all, you'll get hit off the ledge and then Ike does nair out of nowhere and then you're screwed.

 

[Nysyarc]

Things like auto-canceling Bair on a SH just takes practice to get the buffering down in input lag. Stupid choppy lag doesn't count, that's just bad for any character. But you're right, without a projectile, fast moves with broken hitboxes or a good recovery, Ike is one of the more badly hurt characters on WiFi.

Why do you bring that up though?

 

[Ussi]

this guide is intended for offline play.. Wifi doesn't matter to me

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Then why do we have a section comparing offline to WiFi? Or is it for people who would be going: "I'm so godly WiFi I can pwn everyone offline trololol"?

 

[Ussi]

For the less unfortunate, I offer help for those trying to who try to balance wifi and offline play so they don't lose their offline ability or have a fear of getting worse when they think of trying wifi.

 

[WeretigerX]

Things like auto-canceling Bair on a SH just takes practice to get the buffering down in input lag. Stupid choppy lag doesn't count, that's just bad for any character. But you're right, without a projectile, fast moves with broken hitboxes or a good recovery, Ike is one of the more badly hurt characters on WiFi.

Why do you bring that up though?

I bring it up because it needs to be addressed. Ike players who don't play online could read that and try to play online thinking they'll be stomping and lose horribly because they can't do anything near what they do offline. It's good to clear up the fact that a good Ike is far better offline.

 

[Ussi]

sigh.. I was really hoping that "applying wifi offline" section implied that offline is the way to go..

But i'll just edit that in. What the guide says still is helpful for wifi play in the sense that if you can play wifi and still do autocancel bairs and turnaround jabs.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Disregard this post. Delete please.

 

[Nysyarc]

I bring it up because it needs to be addressed. Ike players who don't play online could read that and try to play online thinking they'll be stomping and lose horribly because they can't do anything near what they do offline. It's good to clear up the fact that a good Ike is far better offline.

Everybody already knows that though, besides players who are brand new to the Smash community... well, and some misguided individuals over at AiB who complain about Ike being amazing on WiFi just so they have something to john about when they lose.

And don't worry about it Jam, you can just edit it later if you come up with something to add, lol. I can't really be bothered deleting posts unless they violate like a dozen rules at once.

 

[san.]

I can't think of much really important that we need to add without going to specific things like in-depth MU/Stage discussions that we periodically harp upon in the general discussion topic.

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah, I really just want to clean it up a bit. I've started editing a few parts in separate Word documents so I can save progress. I do want to get the stage section finished and a simple character MU section couldn't hurt considering our current MU ratio topic doesn't actually have advice on the MUs, just numbers.

 

[san.]

I'm fine with MU discussion, as long as there is a focus on the actual advice without going over semantics such as advantage/disadvantage, which is left to interpretation of the actual advice/knowledge, which is more absolute.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh yah, we'll probably avoid MU ratios and numbers entirely for the guide, and just stick to tips and advice for each MU as well as a general statement of how difficult Ike players can expect it to be. I'd like to include, if possible, Bthrow -> DA percents for each character in the guide as well.

 

[Ussi]

I agree with no mentioning of who has the advantage overall in the MU. a guide tells you what you need to know, knowing who has the advantage overall doesn't really help..

I think we might need another post sharkie ._. the first two already are overloaded but surviving due too collapse tags...

 

[Nysyarc]

I can arrange that, we'd just have to take control of victra's post. If we're going to have three posts for the guide itself though, we should decide now how we want it organized; what sections come first, what ones come later and how many/what sections per post.

I think another scheduled Xat meeting is in order to spur some activity and discuss ideas. Call it the Ike boards New Year's resolution to get this guide done, so we can finally do an Ike boards combo video this summer.

 

[san.]

I see. I didn't even realize there was info on stages until just now.. =( I'll try to contribute over the course of the week. We have plenty of time to get this done right

 

[victra♥]

I can arrange that, we'd just have to take control of victra's post. If we're going to have three posts for the guide itself though, we should decide now how we want it organized; what sections come first, what ones come later and how many/what sections per post.

I think another scheduled Xat meeting is in order to spur some activity and discuss ideas. Call it the Ike boards New Year's resolution to get this guide done, so we can finally do an Ike boards combo video this summer.

which post is that? o.o

 

[Ussi]

the 4th one saying "thread title is amazing"

2 new sections are going in.. Doubles and MUs (completely forgot to add in doubles =_=)

I'll probably make my own input on stages too. It'll be combined with Niddo's post but i'll add my own comments under each stage amd what i think of it. Anyone else who wishes to give their input on stagea feel free too.

I'm also gonna make an edit and point out the "BBR committee (sp -_- to lazy to check) stagelist" as they will start being the standard stages



so when it comes to re-organizing the guide.. i'm thinking of 5 big sections now..

Moveset Analysis (first post)
(offense + defense + recovery all in one section but split in their respective parts) (2nd post)
Mental Aspect (includes Misc as it is a mental aspect) (3rd post)
Doubles (3rd post)
Stages and MU (3rd Post)

 

[WeretigerX]

Oh, another thing. When using Uair to punish an air dodge, it's best not to fast fall with them because it won't hit them. Because Ike will most likely fall faster, your hitbox will totally miss if they're fast falling and you chase them with the fast fall. I've seen this countless times playing that if you keep yourself at a regular falling pace, the Uair will connect to a fast faller whereas fast falling you won't connect.

Could just be me though...

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, it depends what character you're up against. I like doing it to Snakes that recover stupidly high with their upB every time they get sent off-stage, then as they're coming back down I fall with them and Uair. For Snake you have to fast-fall if he is, cause his fast-fall speed is about the same as Ike's (and maybe faster). Same goes for a lot of characters, but for some or if they aren't fast-falling, yah you can just fall normally.

Jumping up to bait an air-dodge and then following up with a Bair is great for that too, and I tend to do that more often against characters that don't fall as fast as Ike.

 

[WeretigerX]

Oh, yeah. That always works too. I think you can normal full hop Uair Snake too if he fast falls. He's still pretty tall so he'd get caught in the ending lag most likely. Though fast falling can work with Snake too. For the floaty characters and lighter ones, it won't work.

 

[san.]

Nair works as a great alternative for uair, too. As stated before, if doing uair from the ground, you're limited to a fullhop without being able to fastfall if you don't want to have landing lag. You just get not as much reward from using nair at higher %s, but it's still useful and safe.

Uair seems to work better for me against those who can't fall very fast. It's funny to do it against MKs who decide to air dodge.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I was actually going to say that but then San posted it. Nair is probably better for people who fall faster.

 

[WeretigerX]

Indeed, Nair is definitely a good mix up at high %. On BF, that would set up more sharking against Snake in that scenario. Uair is definitely better for the lighter chars though as I said before and San also confirmed haha.

 

[\/aarsivius]

OI! Mind if I do a Wiimote section?

 

[Ussi]

go ahead lol

 

[\/aarsivius]

OK. I've never made a guide before, but i'll try...

Playing Wiimote Ike (WiIke )
This guide to WiIke was written by Vaarsivius.

Contents​

1. Introduction​
2. Offense​
3. Defense​
4. ATs​

Introduction
WARNING: This guide is for people who need to use Wiimote. If you can use the Wiimote + Nunchuck, then USE IT! IT IS BETTER THAN WIIMOTE.
So you want to play WiIke? Ike is one of the easiest characters to pick up on the Wiimote, but if you want to suceed in tourneys then you'll need to know your controller, and your character. The moves are documented farther up, and the rankings all still apply here. Smashers that were honed on other games consoles will find learning this a peach, while others will struggle.

Offense
As WiIke, most of your play will be offense, so you will need to get this into your head. As said above in the overall guide intro, he has amazing range in his moves. His dair WILL be one of your most used moves, due to it's spike so you need to learn WHEN to dair, as if done wrong it will launch the opponent UPWARDS which is the exact opposite of what you will be wanting. Another offensive move is the fsmash, which is Ike's main launching move. His first jab has a reach equivalent of one Training Stage square and should NOT be ignored. A fast jab canceller can use it to deal out the pain.

DO NOT POST IN MAIN POST YET, WORK IN PROGRESS!​

 

[theeboredone]

....

 

[WeretigerX]

....

Lol. I'll quote what I said on the social board.

Offense
As WiIke, most of your play will be offense, so you will need to get this into your head. As said above in the overall guide intro, he has amazing range in his moves. His dair WILL be one of your most used moves, due to it's spike so you need to learn WHEN to dair, as if done wrong it will launch the opponent UPWARDS which is the exact opposite of what you will be wanting. Another offensive move is the fsmash, which is Ike's main launching move. His first jab has a reach equivalent of one Training Stage square and should NOT be ignored. A fast jab canceller can use it to deal out the pain.

Wow. WiIke sounds pretty bad already.

 

[Nysyarc]

....

This.

Vaarsivius, no offense as this is your first guide, but I think your offensive overview of Ike while using a Wiimote needs a little more specific advice for using the Wiimote and less advice on... how to play Ike in '08.

 

[WeretigerX]

To start off, Fsmash won't get you anywhere unless you're online where it might. That is the most obvious flaw of your overview. It's just as easy to do an Usmash, which is far more viable at this point in time. I've played as Ike with the Wiimote and Wiimote+Nunchuck so I know. And the tap jump makes an aerial just as easy, which is even more usable these days.

Now I'm a dair junkie, but if that's your most used aerial, we have a problem. That shouldn't be your most used aerial even back when the game first came out. Fair and Bair have always been the most commonly used aerials even with the Wiimote.

Well I'm done because I could go on and I'm sure many of us could. I'd like to see you in action to see where you're coming from, because words alone mean nothing. If you're interested in some friendlies, message me and I'll be glad to play you.

 

[Teh Brettster]

inb4 correcting WireTiger to say Nair

 

[Nysyarc]

inb4 correcting WireTiger to say Nair and inb4 no Dair into ground.

Fix'd.

Weretiger you forgot about Nair, and being a Dair junkie is all well and good as long as it doesn't include Dairs into ground.

 

[WeretigerX]

inb4 correcting WireTiger to say Nair

inb4 it's not WireTiger

Fix'd.

Weretiger you forgot about Nair, and being a Dair junkie is all well and good as long as it doesn't include Dairs into ground.

As for both of you, I believe I said "Well I'm done because I could go on and I'm sure many of us could. " Nair is not as commonly used as Bair and Fair. And actually, I hit a lot of Dairs into the ground. I know it's not as smart as the average Bair (ZING) but it's a bad habit of mine.

 

[Nysyarc]

inb4 it's not WireTiger

Yah Brett, jeez. I got it right.

Nair is not as commonly used as Bair and Fair.

This statement may be true for some Ikes but it definitely isn't for me. I may use Fair about the same amount as Nair but I tend to use both a lot more than Bair. I use Nair a lot more often offline, and Fair more often online. Bair I use in certain situations and just to throw out as a safe zoning move once in awhile.

And actually, I hit a lot of Dairs into the ground.

Yes I noticed when we were playing, which is why I brought it up, lol. I'd honestly never seen anyone use that many Dairs into the ground before, I was too horrified to call you out on it at the time.

 

[WeretigerX]

It's funny, because I actually hit the opponent more than half the time with those Dairs. A lot of times I'll bait an attack and use a second jump to avoid it and then Dair. It works a lot. Eventually, it will stop working.

 

[Nysyarc]

It's funny, because I actually hit the opponent more than half the time with those Dairs. A lot of times I'll bait an attack and use a second jump to avoid it and then Dair. It works a lot. Eventually, it will stop working.

Yah but if you're hitting that often with Dair it'd be much better to hit with a Nair at low percents to follow up with something else, a Bair or Fair to hit them off-stage at higher percents (rather than pop them up above you while you have too much landing lag to follow-up), and an Uair on tall characters to KO them earlier than Dair.