Niko45
Smash Master
It's been awful for me, too. Game just running on average at a much lower framerate, with particularly giant frame drops while shopping in base and (of course) in team fights.
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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
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I've had consistently 10-15 lower fps this patch than normal.
Had to drop my settings to get myself back up to my normal fps.
Had to drop my settings to get myself back up to my normal fps.
Ha, same here. The shop has been insanely laggy ever since they updated it. I do like how they just made it so you can see a lot more items at once in grid view in this last patch.
Leacero
Smash Lord
Let's not argue about Fiora or the fisticuffs are about to come out.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
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- 27,486
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- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- NNID
- RedRyu_Smash
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I feel like anything they give to melee carries will just be used by bruisers to some extent and then not help the range issue.
Personally I don't see how they solve their problems without making them AD casters.
Having to auto attack AND be in melee range puts you at such a huge disadvantage, and the only way you can really do that is if you are tanky enough to not just get instagibbed. You can't really get to that point unless you are building items to actually become tanky enough to survive, and if you're doing that you won't be doing carry damage; at that point aren't you just a bad bruiser? At least a true bruisers are packing CC, and just enough base damage that they can force a carry to deal with them.
I just don't see how they balance that.
AD casters work, and even bad AD casters work better than melee carries, because their damage comes out so quickly from their abilities. Whether or not an AD caster gets out alive, at least they took somebody out with them because they can actually get off their damage before dying. Sure, a melee has a higher damage potential in a drawn out fight, but they won't ever live long enough to see that point so who cares?
If you actually make a melee carry strong enough to do well, it's probably because they are so far above the curve, or have some huge cheese factor that allows them to work. It's sad that that's what it takes. You need something stupid like an Olaf ult to even almost work.
Having to auto attack AND be in melee range puts you at such a huge disadvantage, and the only way you can really do that is if you are tanky enough to not just get instagibbed. You can't really get to that point unless you are building items to actually become tanky enough to survive, and if you're doing that you won't be doing carry damage; at that point aren't you just a bad bruiser? At least a true bruisers are packing CC, and just enough base damage that they can force a carry to deal with them.
I just don't see how they balance that.
AD casters work, and even bad AD casters work better than melee carries, because their damage comes out so quickly from their abilities. Whether or not an AD caster gets out alive, at least they took somebody out with them because they can actually get off their damage before dying. Sure, a melee has a higher damage potential in a drawn out fight, but they won't ever live long enough to see that point so who cares?
If you actually make a melee carry strong enough to do well, it's probably because they are so far above the curve, or have some huge cheese factor that allows them to work. It's sad that that's what it takes. You need something stupid like an Olaf ult to even almost work.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Turning them into AD casters or at least characters whose abilities are used just as much as their AAs if not more, then I see them doing better.
The issue for some of them though is that either their abilities as is aren't good enough, or their abilities buffed would be really toxic.
The issue for some of them though is that either their abilities as is aren't good enough, or their abilities buffed would be really toxic.
I'm actually fine with them being turned more into AD casters.
AD casters, at least in my opinion, have more room for interesting designs, and are far easier to balance. A melee carry is either toxic or bad it seems, with more or less no gray area. An AD caster has a lot more variables to work with to put them into a nice place.
I'm not the kind of person who just accepts that X characters are bad and moves on. I understand that it's an impossible goal, but having that goal regardless makes for a better game if you ask me. So I'm all for changing melee carries to fit with an evolving game.
But first, because I've been on a Talon kick lately, let's give him some love
He just feels like worse Zed.
AD casters, at least in my opinion, have more room for interesting designs, and are far easier to balance. A melee carry is either toxic or bad it seems, with more or less no gray area. An AD caster has a lot more variables to work with to put them into a nice place.
I'm not the kind of person who just accepts that X characters are bad and moves on. I understand that it's an impossible goal, but having that goal regardless makes for a better game if you ask me. So I'm all for changing melee carries to fit with an evolving game.
But first, because I've been on a Talon kick lately, let's give him some love
He just feels like worse Zed.
Niko45
Smash Master
Ionno that guy Hao makes Tryndamere look pretty good
Okuser
Smash Ace
Rammus
Riot are out of their ****ing minds buffing rammus.
but atleast Dianna, zed and elise finally got their VERY overdue nerfs.
why did they not take care of hecarim AND tresh this patch too??? makes no sense
pretty solid patch though, the cait nerfs are fantastic
- Puncturing Taunt
Riot are out of their ****ing minds buffing rammus.
but atleast Dianna, zed and elise finally got their VERY overdue nerfs.
why did they not take care of hecarim AND tresh this patch too??? makes no sense
pretty solid patch though, the cait nerfs are fantastic
iunno, I guess that's true. Though I think I'll start taking Fiora mid lane and build tonnes of Armor pen.
What are peoples thoughts on Ghostblade? That poor item is never used.
Also thank god for Rumble/Caitlyn nerfs. Now nerf Renekton.
I think they went in the right direction so as not to overnerf Remble by giving him the extra damage in the danger zone~
That said, I dislike manaless champs.
That said, I dislike manaless champs.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Rumble's damage in the danger zone is pretty much the same early game and as the game goes on, it's going to do less and less as it did before.
The Rammus taunt change is sorta confusing. I guess it doesn't change much, but the armor reduction that it gave had to at least help his clear slightly.
More Nami buffs makes me really happy.
Edit: they also scrapped the lux shield stacking idea. thank god, that would be such a unneeded buff.
Will be interesting to see how the changes benefit diana.
More Nami buffs makes me really happy.
Edit: they also scrapped the lux shield stacking idea. thank god, that would be such a unneeded buff.
Will be interesting to see how the changes benefit diana.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Nami buffs <3!
Time to beat scrubs harder cause they the only ones who get hit by Q anyways.
All she needs now is her ult to actually do something impactful. Or be wider
Time to beat scrubs harder cause they the only ones who get hit by Q anyways.
All she needs now is her ult to actually do something impactful. Or be wider
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
I think it still works on monsters, just not minions.
Leacero
Smash Lord
don't build boots on fiora until you finish your hydra/bruta/bt.
core build = no boots.
Everyone's core outside of junglers is no boots.
Ussi
Smash Legend
With all these no boots i've been actually able to gank people as Shyvana and stick on their slow butt
Making melee carries work means they need to be able to "get away with" a similar item build to ranged carries. That is, 1 defensive item max for the rest being offence.
If that were to stretch to melee carries needing 2 defensive items to survive then... maybe... but it already feels like a lot of bruisers are staying near 2 defensive items and going damage elsewhere anyway (Trinity, Cleaver, Hydra, Botrk) and getting away with it. Jax tends to not really build defensive items much at all and gets away with it...
Tryndamere works because he gets... at least 5 seconds of damage, or has to be focussed with CC for a noticeable period of 5 seconds. Plus he needs to get to low health first. This has been the "toxicity" issue with tryndamere being workable as a carry for... ever. Focussing him hurts you, not focussing him hurts you. Always a threat. Has minuscule commitment issues compared to everyone else.
Other characters are forced to use their "carry" ults almost immediately in any team fight situation and are VERY easy to bait / disengage from (Olaf [once upon a time bro], Yi, Sion, Poppy, etc)
Gangplank is probably the only other melee carry who can go melee carry and still have some degree of something going for him (his ult can be used for hard engages, W gets him out of things once he's in there, Q harass is pretty significant with damage items). He still can't ever auto attack though.
The melee carry "efficiency" item of Ghostblade was also nerfed for no reason at the same time as Cleaver. Hurting melee carries (-5 or 10 armor pen, -5% CDR, -2 seconds on the active, slightly less AD IIRC?) and keeping the cost the same. I'm surprised riot are making these mistakes at this point, but whatever. It's like "Zed is dominating the game", "better nerf Irelia" all over. Except "Cleaver op" -> "better nerf one of the most underused items in the game that no one was building in any way shape or form in the first place". Commitment issues also exist on what was once considered to be the Melee carry efficiency item of choice.
Other good/efficient items for melee carries are better on bruisers or aren't giving enough immediate effects to their build paths for melee carries to work with. Lizard Elder is great cost efficiency but isn't scaling with AS and also works with single target abilities [could make the true damage effect be a stacking one so its "better" for melee carries / less gay on ezreal / etc]. Hexdrinker is giving mediocre AD and MR (for an AD carry) but scales well with bruisers already defensive aspects better than it does on melee carries; derpo. Maw is a pretty big expensive gap and is basically the perfect Melee carry item, but it really sucks to build it/rush it, and Melee carries want the bonus AD from Maw ASAP for it to be worth building... hence it isn't worth building.
Defensive items good for carries have been nerfed because they were too good on ranged carries multiple times throughout history. No adjustments. Melee carries become usable when there are single available items that give great spikes in survivability (old warmogs). Arguably they go from warmogs rush (like the other bruisers at the time) into offensive items just as well if not better than bruisers. *ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding*. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
tl;dr commitment. Riot needs to make melee carries not so full of commitment, or at least give them something more for committing. Right now what they get isn't enough. Imagine for a second if ghostblades active was something like "grants % movementspeed for X seconds while approaching enemy champions, upon auto attacking for the next Y seconds gains the DPS stuff" (and has some CD reductions maybe for not AAing in time while still approaching champions). Suddenly I don't feel like I have a wasted item just because they saw/heard the active. Sword of the Divine kinda has the right idea (X seconds or Y AAs) but I think the item is 'weak' over all though (and if it was much better it would be the ADCs ****** it).
So, a single defensive item that doesn't make ranged or bruisers or ad casters OP.
Maw not being a ****ty build path.
SotD/Ghostblade not being ****. Imagine if SoTD kept it's regular attack speed after using the active but only for melees? Holy **** would the item suddenly be a really ****ing good melee carry item. That would probably need gold efficiency adjustments so it isn't good on every melee character.
If that were to stretch to melee carries needing 2 defensive items to survive then... maybe... but it already feels like a lot of bruisers are staying near 2 defensive items and going damage elsewhere anyway (Trinity, Cleaver, Hydra, Botrk) and getting away with it. Jax tends to not really build defensive items much at all and gets away with it...
Tryndamere works because he gets... at least 5 seconds of damage, or has to be focussed with CC for a noticeable period of 5 seconds. Plus he needs to get to low health first. This has been the "toxicity" issue with tryndamere being workable as a carry for... ever. Focussing him hurts you, not focussing him hurts you. Always a threat. Has minuscule commitment issues compared to everyone else.
Other characters are forced to use their "carry" ults almost immediately in any team fight situation and are VERY easy to bait / disengage from (Olaf [once upon a time bro], Yi, Sion, Poppy, etc)
Gangplank is probably the only other melee carry who can go melee carry and still have some degree of something going for him (his ult can be used for hard engages, W gets him out of things once he's in there, Q harass is pretty significant with damage items). He still can't ever auto attack though.
The melee carry "efficiency" item of Ghostblade was also nerfed for no reason at the same time as Cleaver. Hurting melee carries (-5 or 10 armor pen, -5% CDR, -2 seconds on the active, slightly less AD IIRC?) and keeping the cost the same. I'm surprised riot are making these mistakes at this point, but whatever. It's like "Zed is dominating the game", "better nerf Irelia" all over. Except "Cleaver op" -> "better nerf one of the most underused items in the game that no one was building in any way shape or form in the first place". Commitment issues also exist on what was once considered to be the Melee carry efficiency item of choice.
Other good/efficient items for melee carries are better on bruisers or aren't giving enough immediate effects to their build paths for melee carries to work with. Lizard Elder is great cost efficiency but isn't scaling with AS and also works with single target abilities [could make the true damage effect be a stacking one so its "better" for melee carries / less gay on ezreal / etc]. Hexdrinker is giving mediocre AD and MR (for an AD carry) but scales well with bruisers already defensive aspects better than it does on melee carries; derpo. Maw is a pretty big expensive gap and is basically the perfect Melee carry item, but it really sucks to build it/rush it, and Melee carries want the bonus AD from Maw ASAP for it to be worth building... hence it isn't worth building.
Defensive items good for carries have been nerfed because they were too good on ranged carries multiple times throughout history. No adjustments. Melee carries become usable when there are single available items that give great spikes in survivability (old warmogs). Arguably they go from warmogs rush (like the other bruisers at the time) into offensive items just as well if not better than bruisers. *ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding*. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
tl;dr commitment. Riot needs to make melee carries not so full of commitment, or at least give them something more for committing. Right now what they get isn't enough. Imagine for a second if ghostblades active was something like "grants % movementspeed for X seconds while approaching enemy champions, upon auto attacking for the next Y seconds gains the DPS stuff" (and has some CD reductions maybe for not AAing in time while still approaching champions). Suddenly I don't feel like I have a wasted item just because they saw/heard the active. Sword of the Divine kinda has the right idea (X seconds or Y AAs) but I think the item is 'weak' over all though (and if it was much better it would be the ADCs ****** it).
So, a single defensive item that doesn't make ranged or bruisers or ad casters OP.
Maw not being a ****ty build path.
SotD/Ghostblade not being ****. Imagine if SoTD kept it's regular attack speed after using the active but only for melees? Holy **** would the item suddenly be a really ****ing good melee carry item. That would probably need gold efficiency adjustments so it isn't good on every melee character.
Niko45
Smash Master
Ya I'm pretty salty about more rumble nerfs with renekton khazix jayce just chillin as is but whatever, riot hates rumble.
U wanna scrap m8
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
You mean like hydra?
Clearly they should make an item only for melee ADC's. I mean, there's only 4 of them (if you count Gangplank).
They've done ranged only/melee only, why not restrict an item to those other characters?
They've done ranged only/melee only, why not restrict an item to those other characters?
Nike.
Smash Hero
Smite Anivia OP
D
Deleted member
Guest
That is a terrible idea because it is arbitrary who it to is going to be restricted to (eg. Gangplank), you force a build path on the characters do get to build it and it disallows other characters who it might fit less to use it as niche build. If it is clear that a very small group of characters doesn't work because of the way they play (melee adc), then either you need to fix those characters themselves (my idea would be a lot of steroids and/or passives on their skills), or people just need to accept that such a playstyle doesn't fit league.
Defensive item that scale with attack speed/critical strike, with extra for melee.
Ussi
Smash Legend
You mean atmas's impaler?
Niko45
Smash Master
Idk, its dangerous to tamper with melee carries because, even in their current state, if they get really fed there is very little counter play to them.
Boofy!
Smash Champion
so how massacred did Nunu top get?
He got hit pretty damn hard. Still a situationally strong pick, his lategame scaling probably got slightly buffed with the consume changes, but itemizing early is a lot harder since it feels like you have to get spellvamp earlier rather than leaning on AP and he doesn't derp win every lane anymore. idk, I think we did a good job with those changes, but time will tell. Ice Blast is still absurdly powerful and even with the huge nerf, consume is exceptionally efficient as a heal.
Team Spirit Anivia and Whistler Village Twitch please.
Zano
Smash Master
Pax Twisted Fate thoooo
No, Atma's scales with health. I mean an item that's giving some form of defensive measure that works alongside items they're buying.
It's a complicated problem to try to think through though.
e.g. "Scaling with attack speed".
+ Taking damage
Bring those two together and not make it OP for ranged carries (so make the effects melee only)
(Random ideas) while taking damage approaching enemy champions, for every second you get AttackSpeed stacks of "something". Could be movement speed, a shield of some sort(!!!).
Things are hard here (and this is probably why its so hard to balance this realm of champs now) because of auto attack resets being the norm on every new character. So something that applies per auto attack can generally be applied three times in a short period of time. Most melee carries don't have AA resets. This is a huge gap of why bruisers are outclassing because the items they do buy they get more damage out of them in burst than the carries do. It's pretty **** that you're a melee carry auto attacking someone and you're the one needing to build attack speed to deal damage, but you've only auto attacked them once in the same time they've hit you three times. DUMB. Then you get champs like Kha who reset aas several times so they outdeeps and outburst melee carries at every stage in the game for like 3 second or so periods. Super ****ing dumb
But if the items directly scale with attack speed as a stat rather than power creeping mechanics than it could work.
The alternative is something that stacks "better" the more of it, so it's actually doing things for higher AS and isn't going to just be bruisers getting 3x the love that melee carries do with every item.
Mog, I need Ragdoll and Lollipoppy.
PLZ
and people wonder why I don't have "Riot" in my tag...