Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Mogwai]

Wait a sec, the 0/6/28 Nautilus is a huge troll who needs to be banned? What? He picked a weird support, but he played competently enough from what I saw. I'm so very sorry that he failed at whatever thing you think made him a troll, but I saw nothing even close to trolling from him in my interactions with him in game, so I'm not sure where you expect me to get the impetus to report him from. If he said something in team chat, then get your team to report him, but I have no means by which to see this guy trolling, yet I see you calling him a ******, which as I have already said, I don't tolerate in the slightest.

 

[Dekar173]

Mogwai how are you going to cite score in order to prove someone isn't trolling/a douchebag?

By that logic, people wouldn't even have the option of reporting me!

I'm not saying you don't have the right to report whoever the hell you want, but I think okuser is angry at the fact that you reported him, and not the guy who elicited such rage from him.

 

[Okuser]

Wait a sec, the 0/6/28 Nautilus is a huge troll who needs to be banned? What? He picked a weird support, but he played competently enough from what I saw. I'm so very sorry that he failed at whatever thing you think made him a troll, but I saw nothing even close to trolling from him in my interactions with him in game, so I'm not sure where you expect me to get the impetus to report him from. If he said something in team chat, then get your team to report him, but I have no means by which to see this guy trolling, yet I see you calling him a ******, which as I have already said, I don't tolerate in the slightest.

He was last pick and insisted on AD and I told him I was going AD, he didn't like that one bit and warned me not to.

you see, the trolls in highish elo have evolved. they know how to make somebody lose a game without blatantly incriminating themselves. nautilus was essentially afk during the entire laning phase, he would sit in the bush while I cs'd and literally wouldn't use any of his abilities, ward, or do anything at all while I was 1v2'ing the lane and then he would let me die intentionally multiple times all the while commenting on how poor I was playing.

when I would call attention to what he was doing or when we had teammates around, he would resume normal play INSTANTANEOUSLY.

He wanted me to lose the game. Because of what happened in pregame. and that's the only punishable offence that occurred this game.

 

[Mogwai]

What did the nautilus do to elicit that rage? I seriously don't see it. I'm citing score because I'm saying he didn't play poorly that I saw, but maybe if I only saw him past 10 minutes and the dude still managed to end the game at 0/15/10... but no, he had 6 deaths total in a 40+ minute game, and had assist on 28 out of 37 kills. Score doesn't say everything, but it's one more place for me to look and see if I missed something about this Naut trolling, but I literally don't see where exactly Okuser is getting so consumed by anger from this guy. Especially when he's talking about trolling without a conversation trail for the tribunal to punish you off of. Like, I'm sorry, if he didn't say something to piss you off and played fairly competently by most measures, what in god's name did he do make you so mad that it made your homophobia burst out in a derogatory slur?

He was last pick and insisted on AD and I told him I was going AD, he didn't like that one bit and warned me not to.

you see, the trolls in highish elo have evolved. they know how to make somebody lose a game without blatantly incriminating themselves. nautilus was essentially afk during the entire laning phase, he would sit in the bush while I cs'd and literally wouldn't use any of his abilities, ward, or do anything at all while I was 1v2'ing the lane and then he would let me die intentionally multiple times all the while commenting on how poor I was playing.

when I would call attention to what he was doing or when we had teammates around, he would resume normal play INSTANTANEOUSLY.

He wanted me to lose the game. Because of what happened in pregame. and that's the only punishable offence that occurred this game.

No, I swear, there's a gremlin on the wing on the plane, it's just every time I point it out, he hides!
I'm sorry, but with no discernible evidence, I'm not reporting someone. I saw no signs of foul play from him and hence, I didn't report him. That's how the system works, you report what you see.
And on the subject of what I saw, I actually saw a punishable offence in the game, which was the one I reported, which was you calling him a '******.'

 

[Scamp]

I do tribunal cases occasionally. I've never seen a case with less that three reported incidents to look at.

Okuser do you have some kind of proof that it only takes one report to get to the Tribunal? Because if you don't it doesn't make you look good saying stuff that isn't true.

 

[Dekar173]

Well Wes you probably weren't paying attention during champ select, as in every game I've ever watched of yours, you pick then basically AFK reading chat/playing Melee and stuff.

^^^^ All wrong as Wes was on the enemy team to Okuser and THE DREADED NAUTILUS

It's like the people who say "I am X" then don't type anything, and pick that role, regardless of whether someone else has already chosen it or not. They're "protesting" the poor tribunal setup where there's no report option/votekick option for pre-game, and so they give themselves free reign in the asshole department.

 

[Vyke]

I think you're missing the point.

 

[Dekar173]

Wes is standing by his report of Okuser, which is completely fine. If you don't like someone venting their frustrating in such a way, then that's your right, that's the entire purpose of the tribunal/report system. I tend to report people if I've ever played with them and they were an asshole. I always report saintvicious, it doesn't matter how he acts in the game I'm playing- he will be reported at the end of the game for the way he's acted in the past. Also, I tend to report people for *starting* all of the bull****/commotion, so I'm obviously going to lean towards reporting the Nautilus in this case.

Note: this is all speculation, as the footage from that game doesn't seem to have been saved tonight, which I find slightly strange considering there's a little bit of bickering about it, I wonder why it was erased!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ok, so take away point is that okuser definately deserved a report and this guy MAY have deserved a report as well. Not much that mog can do after the game, but if he was doing it intentionally and essentially stated as much during champ select, not much he can do can do cause mog doesn't really pay attention during champ select. I completely understand mog not reporting even if it was deserved cause he simply didn't have all the information.

If so, as much as I can understand the rage, 0 tolerance for racial slurs.




That said, it takes a lot more then one case to get to tribunal, it's just that when there's only one case tribunal only takes recent cases for the voters to be judged on. Since there's a signifigant backlog, by the time the case hits tribunal there may only be one recent case.

 

[Dekar173]

Reread what was said, no racism was mentioned, just 6 letters and your mind filling in the blanks.



Oftentimes when someone says top, and instead I get it, it doesn't matter how well I do, they're going to ***** the very instant I make a mistake. They're going to actively go against the sake of the team out of spite, because they want to somehow prove to themselves they deserved top lane over myself. Okuser already mentioned the Nautilus wanted to play ADC, and didn't get his way. That's a bit of context for this situation.



So let's look at a bit more context, shall we?

Nautilus' screenname- "1v1 me brah" judge this how you will, I take it as a giant red flag screaming "this guy is a ****ing douchelord"

Support choice- Nautilus. Not my first choice for a support, but I understand if you're good with the character. I'm neutral in this regard, the meta shifts because people try things. If his team was adamantly against it... **** move.

Another little bit of info that might help here- Mog was on the opposing team. Mog wasn't there for champ select at all, and therefore didn't really see what Okuser was so enraged over because it probably wasn't visible to him.

He didn't see anything that deserved a report because either the guy wasn't alltalking, nothing was said altogether, or the Naut didn't deserve a report.



Okuser, being on the same team as the guy and having seen everything probably knows a bit more about this situation than everyone else, Mog included. I'm leaning toward Okuser being in the right here, and his frustration to be justified.

Did he vent that frustration properly, and should he have used the word ******? I suppose not, and DEFINITELY not according to Mogwai. I wouldn't have reported Okuser, though, especially since all that's been mentioned is one word being Wes' justification for reporting someone else. Maybe that's because I'm an adult, though, and actions bother me a bit more than words do.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'll cosign to Dekar on this one.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Wait, you're expecting Mog to report when he didn't see anything report worthy?

Each game is it's own entity, I'm not going to report somebody for based on wholistic analysis of their personality along with actions that weren't inherently toxic, and then using that to decide that they probably were toxic, I'm going to report them doing things that I see them doing that are toxic. If they weren't toxic that particular game it just devalues your reports. Yes, this applies just as strongly for your continuous reporting of Saint.


And you're right, I made an assumption of what it was based on mog's classifacation of it as hate speech, but you know what? Any 6 letter word I can think of that would be classified as hate speech used in this context is just as bad. Don't care if it's a slur against gays, poles, or africans, using it as a personal attack isn't acceptable and deserves a report.

Saying it is a word, when you say seriously it to the person or type it to them it's an action, especially in the context of calling people out for "trolling". There's a reason why I just chided you when you used a slur on stream to your friends but consider this banworthy, context is important.


So yea, mog reported okuser for being toxic because he saw okuser being toxic. He had no way to know Naut was being toxic because the case against him was based on information he didn't have. His team should've reported him then, the enemy team simply had no basis for a report.



I'm not saying his frustration isn't justified, just his actions. Furthermore, I see nothing that suggests that mog had any basis to report the naut as well.

 

[Deleted member]

And people wonder why I don't play ranked lol.

 

[Life]

re: Tribunal, if Mogwai was on his Riot account (I'm pretty sure he was right?) is it possible his reports carry more weight?

In any case, I'm with adumb on this one.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Cut the popcorn gif.s

I approve what Mogwai did.

 

[Player-3]

8============D

 

[Leacero]

To be fair, I woulda reported Okuser too. If you claim to be an adult I don't see any reason to use such language even in a post-game chat. It reflects very poorly on the type of person you are. I understand the guy may have trolled you, but damn, rein it in. It's a video game and angrily calling people names won't change anything.

You can all watch the game anyway from Mogwai's point of view, it's at the latter part of the recording: http://www.twitch.tv/smashgizmo/b/379537282

P.S. which of you guys is Iron Man, and who is Captain America?

 

[adumbrodeus]

on an unrelated note, dekar, your rengar play was namedropped by zekent.

 

[Mogwai]

Note: this is all speculation, as the footage from that game doesn't seem to have been saved tonight, which I find slightly strange considering there's a little bit of bickering about it, I wonder why it was erased!

http://www.twitch.tv/smashgizmo/b/379537282

EDIT: oh, Leacero got it too.

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh my god this is going to be a delicious watch.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Was actually a really boring watch for all the hype it got in this thread.

But since we're all posting our opinions, I'm with Mog and co.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, it's kinda sorta boring.
I blame Mog's music choice. It kept putting me to sleep.

 

[bassem6]

I like mog's music

 

[Espy Rose]

I didn't say I didn't like it. It just made me sleepy.

 

[Dekar173]

I don't think saying ****** is hate-speech at all.

"Die you ****ing ****** I hope you get aids you sinning piece of ****" on the other hand, 100% hate-speech.

"Asshole I'll kill you and your family" is hate-speech too, though. It doesn't matter if your slur pertains to their skin color, sexuality, or just their personality- context is what makes something hate-speech, not the word itself.



"Troll me harder ******" again, I don't think I would consider this hate-speech. Could he have used a less derogatory term? Yes. Was he mad, and does he want to convey just how mad he is?

Some context here as well- I don't even really know Okuser. I don't play with him, Dphat had him sub maybe once or twice? when we had a serious team going. I really just think Mogwai's liberal report here is due to his hatred of the word ****** itself. (which most of you probably assumed was the word ******, as you feel the same way about that one )

Being a veteran of online gaming for over a decade though, I really think people in League need thicker skins, and to stop assuming "omg report" every single ****ing game when they're losing. OH BOY, LOOK AT THIS- LOSING TEAM REPORTED SOMEONE!

Something I think would 100% solve the "report X because we lost" issue League without a doubt has? In-game voice comm.

Edit: Btw, if you're so offended by certain words, feel free to use the WORD FILTER. Its default position is ON so I don't know why so many of you idiots turn it off when you're so ****ing offended by certain words.

 

[Espy Rose]

I dislike the word ****, and Mogwai used it several times in the stream. I am now offended and will avoid his stream for the entirety of his stream life.

Report obv.

 

[john!]

i'm with dekar in that i realize words have multiple meanings and that the word ****** isn't necessarily a homophobic slur. sometimes non-offensive words aren't able to adequately express anger.

if you want to judge someone as a bigot then you should look at their actions, not just their words.

p.s. is anyone else getting pissed off with this "ultra safe sustain laning" meta? i see multiple people per game starting with like 7 health pots, 2 mana pots, and a ward (or something similar). reeeeeal boring.

 

[What's The Point]

i'm with dekar in that i realize words have multiple meanings and that the word ****** isn't necessarily a homophobic slur. sometimes non-offensive words aren't able to adequately express anger.

I was wondering which six letter censored word that was.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't think saying ****** is hate-speech at all.

"Die you ****ing ****** I hope you get aids you sinning piece of ****" on the other hand, 100% hate-speech.

"******* I'll kill you and your family" is hate-speech too, though. It doesn't matter if your slur pertains to their skin color, sexuality, or just their personality- context is what makes something hate-speech, not the word itself.



"Troll me harder ******" again, I don't think I would consider this hate-speech. Could he have used a less derogatory term? Yes. Was he mad, and does he want to convey just how mad he is?

Some context here as well- I don't even really know Okuser. I don't play with him, Dphat had him sub maybe once or twice? when we had a serious team going. I really just think Mogwai's liberal report here is due to his hatred of the word ****** itself. (which most of you probably assumed was the word ******, as you feel the same way about that one )

Being a veteran of online gaming for over a decade though, I really think people in League need thicker skins, and to stop assuming "omg report" every single ****ing game when they're losing. OH BOY, LOOK AT THIS- LOSING TEAM REPORTED SOMEONE!

Something I think would 100% solve the "report X because we lost" issue League without a doubt has? In-game voice comm.

Edit: Btw, if you're so offended by certain words, feel free to use the WORD FILTER. Its default position is ON so I don't know why so many of you idiots turn it off when you're so ****ing offended by certain words.

Now that I saw the log (and when you said it wasn't I immediately figured out which one it was lol, that's why I pointed out I chided you about it before).

Dekar, it's not the goddamn word itself, it's how he used it. He used a slur to attack his teammate and that isn't acceptable period. Using it to mess with your friends is one thing, using it to attack a teammate who played poorly or even outright trolled is just no, and while the former can come off as derogatory depending on how you use it, the latter is always.


But you know what, it's not that I'm offended by this, people online calling me an f***** or n***** doesn't bruise my ego or anything. What is does is completely destroy any sense of team cohesiveness and make the game a ton less enjoyable. Not seeing a particular world wouldn't change that, it's the intent the person's communicating that's the problem and makes them completely horrific to work with.


As for having a thicker skin, if anything, it's the opposite. People in league need to get thinner skins and be more willing to report people for this sort of thing. I'm not a pro player, I'm not even that good. I'm here to have fun and enjoy the game as are many others. Why should we tolerate people acting like screeching 12 year olds? It makes the game much less enjoyable for 9 other people.

Wanna ignore them? Well now we can't see their pings, great. And there's still an entirely non-cooperative person messing up your team game.

Now, I'm not saying okuser acts like a screaming 12 year old, and if this is his only report he's not gonna get into the tribunal and won't get banned, that's fair. Occassional rage happens to everyone, I've been guilty of it too. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action against the people who do this sort of thing on a regular basis, and the only way to do that is report people whenever we see this. If it's a regular thing, they go to the tribunal, if it's a one time rage they don't.

So, if it's a one time thing he'll be fine, but it's not acceptable in general and should not be tolerated in general.


Let me add that after seeing the game from mog's point of view I saw absolutely nothing reportable from naut. You know what, it's possible he was doing what okuser said and was just sitting there doing nothing, but mog didn't know, and reporting people just because other people said they did something isn't justifiable. If I actually saw the match from bot lane's prospective maybe, which is why I'm not saying that okuser is unjustified in his anger. He is however, unjustifiable in his actions.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Although I am niggardly posting in regards to this topic, I will not niggle anyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2nTbqbtGug

 

[Coney]

People in league need to...be more willing to report people.

dear GOD

 

[Dekar173]

I guess it comes down to whether you care more about someone's 1 line reaction, than someone ruining the game for said person and the rest of the team. Being someone who solo queues a hell of a lot more than anyone here, I can tell you right now the actions of others piss me off much more than the empty 1 liners others have for them. And yet, the people typing get reported, not the people obviously trolling.

And that's exactly why Okuser's posts are full of anger in this thread- the tribunal does not promote communication, it promotes saving your own ass by not typing at all, which has been demonstrated by people like master of shaco, and countless others who are emulating him who do something a little like this:

type "I'm am top, mid, adc, or whatever" going AFK, autolocking said role, and going afk again, then never typing and only pinging while in game. Knowing pre-game chat is unavailable both in the tribunal, and to enemies after game, they know they're safe from being reported by the enemy team, or in this Nautilus' case, tell Okuser he'll regret picking ADC, then "support" at bot.

Really, in Okuser's shoes I wouldn't be angry at all over mog reporting me, if he reported the Nautilus saying: "Enemy claimed he was trolling, read team-chat" or something of the like.
Him writing exactly why he reported okuser though, is what I like to see in the tribunal. Why the **** did you report the person? Oh, he said ******. Thanks for the context, I can now adequately judge the case, instead of having 4 empty report boxes from his allies.

Edit: Ya Coney I didn't quite understand that line either. I'll document every single game I play in which people request I report their teammate, maybe that'll show Wes how wrong that sentiment is lol.

 

[Mogwai]

Gaming communities never improve if we turn a blind eye to people slinging around ****** and ****** like that's somehow acceptable.

 

[Niko45]

I think the real moral of this story is never play bot lane :D

 

[adumbrodeus]

dear GOD

You're right, I worded that badly. Need to be more willing to report people who legit acted poorly. Seems like most of them are from the audience that most desperately needs to get reported, but doesn't get reported rather then the people who actually need to report.

I guess it comes down to whether you care more about someone's 1 line reaction, than someone ruining the game for said person and the rest of the team. Being someone who solo queues a hell of a lot more than anyone here, I can tell you right now the actions of others piss me off much more than the empty 1 liners others have for them. And yet, the people typing get reported, not the people obviously trolling.

And that's exactly why Okuser's posts are full of anger in this thread- the tribunal does not promote communication, it promotes saving your own *** by not typing at all, which has been demonstrated by people like master of shaco, and countless others who are emulating him who do something a little like this:

type "I'm am top, mid, adc, or whatever" going AFK, autolocking said role, and going afk again, then never typing and only pinging while in game. Knowing pre-game chat is unavailable both in the tribunal, and to enemies after game, they know they're safe from being reported by the enemy team, or in this Nautilus' case, tell Okuser he'll regret picking ADC, then "support" at bot.

Really, in Okuser's shoes I wouldn't be angry at all over mog reporting me, if he reported the Nautilus saying: "Enemy claimed he was trolling, read team-chat" or something of the like.
Him writing exactly why he reported okuser though, is what I like to see in the tribunal. Why the **** did you report the person? Oh, he said ******. Thanks for the context, I can now adequately judge the case, instead of having 4 empty report boxes from his allies.

Edit: Ya Coney I didn't quite understand that line either. I'll document every single game I play in which people request I report their teammate, maybe that'll show Wes how wrong that sentiment is lol.

Again, then okuser was justified in reporting him, he just has to give context. The thing is, the other people on his team were apparently more put off by okuser's raging then naut's behavior, what naut did was difficult to identify. And yes it would've been worse and yes, it points to an issue in riot's system, but what okuser did just ended up hurting his ability to make the rest of the team recognize the issue.

It's not the responsability of people who have no idea what's going on to report just because the enemy team said to, that happens all the time and for dubious reasons. The responsability is for the people who actually witnessed the issue to provide enough context to identify. I mean, the AP tryn guy who apparently was trolling people in a similar way got banned even with a very limited paper trail, people tried to get him unbanned and when riot checked they were like "oh, this sort of behavior, it just doesn't show in tribunal logs".

Yes, it requires time and yes it requires patience, but if you don't do it this way it looks like you're the guy who needs to be banned and generally these people get off scot free.

 

[Deleted member]

lol this isn't even a debate anymore.

anyone know a good full guide on akali mid?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How okuser used it was pretty much the kind of crap that is pretty damn offensive, it's one thing to tell people to lighten up but it's pretty damn insensitive to throw it out like an insult there.

 

[Dekar173]

Normal people don't just fling slurs around for the sake of it, unless bull****ting with friends. Typically, it's caused by ****ty actions from others.

Proper solution? Report both.

 

[Leacero]

I feel that if people get this angry over playing an online game, they should take a break and go play basketball outside with some friends. It's getting warmer.

Dream Team 1992.

 

[Vyke]

"Normal" people are much different on the internet, though.

I don't really see where this argument was headed. Control yourself if you don't want to get reported. You can do all the pillow-punching in real life if it helps you not type in [All] Chat to try and vindicate yourself (because it's never healthy--For your teammates or yourself.)