Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Player-3]

okay, next question:

how do you get your jungler to gank when the enemy constantly pushes you to tower on a side lane?
how do you get your team to take advantage of the fact that the enemy jungler is camping you?

i'm not going to try and convince you guys that this **** happens to me 70% of the time since you will try to give my (very improbable) life a rational explanation which i have already thought of. so let's pretend that this happens 10% of the time, like it does to most players.

how do you deal with it?

do what i do die alot and farm anyways

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

guys

what exactly is the difference in your playstyles in the following two situations:

- both teams are even
- the enemy team is ahead

or, more generally, how do you deal with other lanes feeding? what if you are the tank?

Either bring your advantage of being ahead to other lanes or push hard on your lane.

Also make sure if you split push your team is away and knows not to engage in 4v5s. Team when I was playing Shen did not grasp this over just turtling while I pushed.

okay, next question:

how do you get your jungler to gank when the enemy constantly pushes you to tower on a side lane?
how do you get your team to take advantage of the fact that the enemy jungler is camping you?

i'm not going to try and convince you guys that this **** happens to me 70% of the time since you will try to give my (very improbable) life a rational explanation which i have already thought of. so let's pretend that this happens 10% of the time, like it does to most players.

how do you deal with it?

1.) Try and remind him to gank, if he doesn't come try ad hold out as long a possible. See what you can do to fix your lane or at least just farm to keep yourself relevant later when other goals need to be done.

2.) Enemy jungler camping you? Buy wards then proceed to watch him lose on XP and CS, just turtle and play safe, your team is more likely to win in the long game when jungler makes a lane 2v1 or 3v2.

 

[Vyke]

I have never seen so much denial, lol

you are just an average person

in an average world, playing an average game, with a bunch of other average players

there are thousands of people just like you with the same gripes, the same 'problems', and the same need to express that you feel you are unique in these problems (which are not unique at all, not even in their frequency.)

You will never be satisfied with any answer we can give you.

 

[Asdioh]

even after nerfs shaco is still the most obnoxious son of a ***** ugh

 

[teluoborg]

"It's not your jungler's job to win your lane"
-Dekar173

Also how does one build gp nowadays ? I haven't gotten anywhere with him since the beginning of S3, and since there was some discussion on gp mid I was wondering if someone could lend me a hand.

 

[Player-3]

Frozen fist stattik shiv

 

[JTB]

Getting a tear is good for lane phase, even if you don't upgrade it

 

[john!]

I have never seen so much denial, lol

you are just an average person

in an average world, playing an average game, with a bunch of other average players

there are thousands of people just like you with the same gripes, the same 'problems', and the same need to express that you feel you are unique in these problems (which are not unique at all, not even in their frequency.)

You will never be satisfied with any answer we can give you.

average players don't constantly call out mistakes on diamond level streams 5 seconds before they are punished for them

average players don't know the metagame a month in advance

average players don't get the highest CS on their team 3/4 of the time

i don't care what you think of me. this is my "**** you" to the world of fairness that i wish i could live in.

 

[Asdioh]

You have to play against Rumble top. You choose __________?

 

[Ussi]

Urgot cause he's the only top i play

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You have to play against Rumble top. You choose __________?

I pick Garen and yell Demacia!!!!

 

[JTB]

http://learning-league.blogspot.com/2013/03/risk-vs-reward-in-champion-balance.html

I've gotten nothing but ******** negative feedback from this after posting it on reddit, so I'm asking you guys to give some insight on why my thought process is wrong. I do feel like I was wrong wrt using Lux ult to clear a wave when sieging is not risky, but there surely is more that I can't see.

 

[john!]

if you call things bad game design, people read that as "overpowered" because they don't understand game design. if the hero in question is not "good" according to popular opinion, then people think you are whining about a hero being OP who actually isn't OP.

don't ask me to explain this thought process, all you have to know is that people are stupid.

 

[Sinister Slush]

>reddit
There's your problem mate.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://learning-league.blogspot.com/2013/03/risk-vs-reward-in-champion-balance.html

I've gotten nothing but ******** negative feedback from this after posting it on reddit, so I'm asking you guys to give some insight on why my thought process is wrong. I do feel like I was wrong wrt using Lux ult to clear a wave when sieging is not risky, but there surely is more that I can't see.

I agree on Nid's spears, not on Lux's skill shots.

Teemo shrooms? Eh, oracles can ruin it and in a team fight...it's not really a threat.

 

[Turazrok]

I agree with everything JTB says let's all go play dota

 

[Shaya]

Riot (and everyone, really) has always had issue with balancing resources, skill, risk and reward. So much so that they've virtually cut out resources as a balancing point. So much so that "higher skill" needs to be homogenised with 'less skill' with similar or virtually non-existent reward difference. Less skill, less resources, less risk champions will always be preferred if they have a skewed reward. Those with more strenuous restrictions in non-reward areas while having excellent rewards that are circumventable are eventually "found" then homogenised. Many get their resource supply buffed and then get everything else about them nerfed in subsequent patches.

Some champions have been lucky and have averted issues forever as their "restrictions" were hard to overcome. Season 3 items are a really interesting curve ball in balance. Lux/Nidalee/Teemo have always wanted capped CDR and would struggle to maintain the power curve required to compete while achieving it, not anymore. Lux, like many champions have always been in the "not allowed to actually be good, otherwise they're too good" pile (Mordekeiser, Shaco, Ezreal, Nidalee, Talon, Eve, Xin, Tryndamere, Warwick, Zilean, Shen, Rammus, etc etc), basically any champion who once they actually feel "good" to use are already in overpowered status. Once those champions are all in nerfed-ville, it returns back to the characters who just have better move sets than everyone else (Jarvan, Irelia, Orianna, Lee Sin, Anivia) or just bonkers laning with reasonable transition (Renekton, Riven, Garen) dominating and the cyclical nerf roundabout continues.

So, I think what you want to be looking at is that Lux has an abusable characteristic which has seen considerable balance changes over her history (remember when she used to do moar damage then they were like "oh, uhh, we like her being supporty instead, tehehe) which resulted damage nerfs just as she was starting to see competitive play, if she had easy CDR back prior to that, she would've already been an A+ carry. A lot of characters have power spikes from specific items/stat preferences and right now CDR for APs who "hard-scale" with CDR is a problem as it's too good/easy/cheap a build path. Other characters who spike at rylais or zhonyas are at a build path disadvantage, and it's really starting to show. On top of that, those which use rylais/zhonyas primarily are ones which are 'closer' to the action than other build paths, but poke/stall is too common right now as nothing else is viable enough to survive.

So in other words,
Lux/Teemo have abuse mechanics which are easier to achieve now than ever before. On top of that, everyone is too ****ing squishie to afford to be anywhere within 500, no 600 no 1000 range you need to be away from every character these days lest you get ****ing one shot.

tl;dr The characters with 1000+ range are the best right now. Especially if they're AP and especially if they like 40% CDR.

 

[Sinister Slush]

On the discussion of risk and reward... let's talk about how the tier system is aesthetics and our LP gains sometimes being ridiculous.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3223153&page=2#35588153
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=27113153#27113153<br />

 

[john!]

shaya, i disagree that there are certain kits which are either terrible or overpowered, with little room in between. every kit CAN be balanced with numbers. karthus Q with a .1 ratio is the worst hero in the game, karthus Q with a 1.0 ratio is the best hero in the game, karthus Q somewhere in between is a balanced hero. some kits are drastically better than others in certain situations (shaco in solo queue, nidalee with poke comps, amumu with AOE comps, etc.) but that holds true for every champion to some extent (and i believe adds to the depth of the game). there is no "better move set than everyone else", there are just move sets that are situationally good at certain things.

also, regarding the 1000+ range thing, do you consider xerath good? i think he's subpar now.

 

[Raziek]

Teemo shrooms? Eh, oracles can ruin it and in a team fight...it's not really a threat.

It's like you completely missed the point of the article.

It's not about what's OP/UP. It's about bad game design and how this emerges in risk/reward.

 

[Shaya]

shaya, i disagree that there are certain kits which are either terrible or overpowered, with little room in between. every kit CAN be balanced with numbers. karthus Q with a .1 ratio is the worst hero in the game, karthus Q with a 1.0 ratio is the best hero in the game, karthus Q somewhere in between is a balanced hero. some kits are drastically better than others in certain situations (shaco in solo queue, nidalee with poke comps, amumu with AOE comps, etc.) but that holds true for every champion to some extent (and i believe adds to the depth of the game). there is no "better move set than everyone else", there are just move sets that are situationally good at certain things.

There are some move sets which are just flat out better in more situations than other characters. However, number values on other characters have generally a lot more impact as these values tend to give them bonkers early/laning phases. When the characters with good numbers get nerfed because they outshine, the characters which are more universal but were seen as "weak" come into use again and due to their adaptable natures are then nerfed again.

also, regarding the 1000+ range thing, do you consider xerath good? i think he's subpar now.

Xerath seems to be alright but he does have quite the mobility hitch to him.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's like you completely missed the point of the article.

It's not about what's OP/UP. It's about bad game design and how this emerges in risk/reward.

Which is why you cut out the part about Nid spears and Lux skill shots that I said?

Regardless.

Teemos shrooms don't have risk reward to them, but the OP/UP to Teemo himself is not going to make it a problem. Teemo is AP? Then he's even worse in team fights than Tanky DPS Teemo, he has nifty global shrooms.......if squishies step on them. Anyone if some from of MR will just step on it and ignore it.and even if Squishies step on it, 1 shroom isn't going to murder a carry.

It's very relevant to the issue, something being bad game design but UP is not an issue for competitive play. Should design team look into it for reworks, making it not stupid if buffed, etc.

If OP then it is gonna be looked into a lot more because it does far more damage than the 1 UP person will.

Nid and Lux are more of an issue to the Risk/Reward than Teemo. That status is relevant.

~

And Shaya is correct here.

 

[Frolossus]

currently 0-1 in my second attempt at platinum promotion
last few games leading up to the promotion went like this
90lp->93lp->95lp->79lp->magically get to 100 in a game

 

[IShouldBeStudying]

So guys! Looks like I'll be spending my entire summer in Orange County, CA!
Any of you live nearby?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You have to play against Rumble top. You choose __________?

I like Riven against Rumble. You don't have to do this (lots of different ways to start with items as Riven, some people do Long Sword+2 pot every game for example) but I like to start with a bunch of pots and get 2 points in E before level 6. That should deal with a large majority of his harass. Otherwise he can't really trade with you early. You've gotta win your lane though, Rumble is a lot more useful than you mid and late even with Riven's awesome midgame.

Riven has solid damage and good team fight but Rumble's ult can dictate the flow of an entire engage if placed very well. I know people say Rumble falls off a bit late, but his ult can devastate a team fight without dealing a point of damage.

 

[Pikaville]

I honestly think Lux is is slighty on the OP side right now.

You can't push lanes vs her and she pushes so damn quickly.

She is also the queen of sieging turrets.

She shuts down a lot of bruisers too in TF's.

 

[Boofy!]

I like Riven vs Rumble, then again I like Riven vs alot of top lanes. Xin also dunks Rumble imo.

Also, does anyone tell me runes/masteries for jungle taric? I was thinking mpen/armor/mr/ms and 9/21/0 unless there's better alternatives (maybe sub mpen for AS?). I played with one today who could literally just walk up and E>R>W and kill their fed Vayne. I was inspired.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I honestly think Lux is is slighty on the OP side right now.

You can't push lanes vs her and she pushes so damn quickly.

She is also the queen of sieging turrets.

She shuts down a lot of bruisers too in TF's.

Lux is an interesting case. S2 really changed her power curve, she used to be weak early, high damage caster mid game, and fall more into a support role late game with some damage but typically "fell off" (hate this phrase) because of all the "ambient" MR floating around. You used to be up against players who all had random amounts of MR from items they build just because they were good, like Wit's End, Aegis Abyssal Scepter, Hexdrinker, GA, and QSS, but these days MR is expensive, inefficient, and many of the Wit's End-ish items aren't popular buys. And MR was just a stronger stat in general (because mpen was weaker). Her full combo in lane is high risk-high reward but her damage late game is much less risky, the difference is that it no longer trails off like it used to.

End result is that late game Lux can cut through whatever small amount of MR you might have with sorc shoes and mpen runes, giving her much much larger returns on her ability power investments and giving her both awesome (and reasonably safe) burst and support-level utility all game.

Top it off with more itemization options (Lux sucked to gear in s2) in Morellonomicon, Tear, and so forth and she's in a very very strong position atm.

 

[jpak]

http://learning-league.blogspot.com/2013/03/risk-vs-reward-in-champion-balance.html

I've gotten nothing but ******** negative feedback from this after posting it on reddit, so I'm asking you guys to give some insight on why my thought process is wrong. I do feel like I was wrong wrt using Lux ult to clear a wave when sieging is not risky, but there surely is more that I can't see.

- Nasus early is not as weak people constantly say it is
- You should define what you mean by risk or choose a different word. To me, no risk would mean I have the ability to first pick the champ and have no worry about any significant counter-play. If you talk about no risk about spells, there are many things to consider...
- I think your comment about Teemo, Lux, Nid having no risk is wrong. Though I do agree Lux is very strong.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I dunno, I think Nidalee is pretty relatively safe at all times. lol

Lux can get caught out with her Q down and die, though.

 

[Vyke]

average players don't constantly call out mistakes on diamond level streams 5 seconds before they are punished for them

average players don't know the metagame a month in advance

average players don't get the highest CS on their team 3/4 of the time

i don't care what you think of me. this is my "**** you" to the world of fairness that i wish i could live in.

Nevermind.

 

[Boofy!]

average players don't constantly call out mistakes on diamond level streams 5 seconds before they are punished for them

It's alot easier to point out others mistakes than to see your own flaws. And as for the metagame comment it's pretty easy to see shifts in trends and in whats powerful and what isn't, it's not like these things change completely overnight.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Actually, they do john.

 

[Vyke]

I'm bridging myself from the conversation for now and using the ignore function before anything else is posted.

 

[Espy Rose]

I doubt anyone really cares enough about the conversation that it ruined their thread roaming experience, Vyke. In fact, it probably improved it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I certainly don't.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Me neither!

*goes back to lurking.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[Vyke]

Then I take back my apology.

 

[john!]

i'm guessing vyke said something ******** that was a personal attack?

speaking of which, anyone plat or above want to duo queue this weekend? i've sunk down to gold 5 (which is below my true elo, seeing as i've been gold since season 1) so you should get some easy games. plus you get to see me play and judge for yourself whether i'm full of **** or not! i might embarrass myself, wouldn't that be fun to watch?

you will be first pick and get your choice of position. i will be last pick and am experienced at every position. i'm willing to put my elo where my mouth is, so to speak. i wonder if any of you are...

 

[Coney]

i disagree with the argument about teemo, but i agree about nidalee; it's bull**** that a champion can sit where you can't see her, throw out a spell every 6 seconds from a random location, and taking even just one probably means you can't defend the objective they're sieging

lux is just as stupid but slightly less so, because she at least has four times the cooldown on her poke spell that nidalee does