General Discussion & Character Rankings

[Shaya]

ZSS is a fine match up for Fox.

A 20 frame move (27 out of shield) is not something fox is generally scared of.

 

[SummonerAU]

Shaya, you didn't even think Peach was good and he-who-must-not-be-named couldn't talk sense into you.

I mean, she can recover from ALL ANGLES against METAKNIGHT.

 

[luke_atyeo]

fox is actually pretty bad against shields shaya, he has a few tricks around them that are easily countered if you know what they are, hence the bad matchup against ic's

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, but ZSS doesnt have out of shield options.

 

[SummonerAU]

umm she can tsmash

 

[luke_atyeo]

you dont really need them against fox, who plays fox again shaya?
oh thats right, not you.

 

[Shaya]

10 frame oos non-dangerous move to fox isnt dangerous.

Look at the difference between the other characters with DANGEROUS moves that are reasonably fast oos:
ICs (Grab), Pikachu (Grab), Sheik (ftilt, 12 frame oos move with hardly any lag... lol)

 

[Zero]

ZSS has 8 frame OOS that Fox can't do **** about, AFAIK. Granted, it's not very dangerous.

 

[Shaya]

Except maybe sdi/shield it?

 

[MTGod]

I remember when I tried to play Fox...

It didn't work out how I planned :D Apparently Shine in Brawl is a bad offensive move???

...

I like hexagons :D

 

[luke_atyeo]

good idea, shield the move they used to punish your move that they shielded

I wish I was as good at this as you are.

 

[Dekar289]

hey luke you and ted win lots of tourneys but.... shaya..?

 

[Shaya]

Shield the 2nd/3rd hits luke...
Dont know much about zss do you?

 

[luke_atyeo]

dont know much about matchups yeah?

lol deks just owns me.

 

[Shaya]

dont know much about zss jab having hits that dont actually combo.

 

[Dekar289]

was serious luke LOL <3

 

[luke_atyeo]

dont know much about theory crafting being overrated do you?

either way this is stupid lets stop, I know that zss's jab is ****, and I figured she's at least have some good out of shield option.

regardless its considered a 70:30 matchup, zss takes a stock off from 1 downsmash, and honestly, how hard is it to land 1 downysmash?


when are you ever not serious dekar? <3

 

[Shaya]

Wtf Luke, have you been smoking crack?
Are you living in 2008?

FOX BOARDS LIST THE MATCH UP 60:40 IN FOXS ADVANTAGE!

ZSS boards (and ZSS mains like... I dont know... Andrew ) say its EVEN at best for ZSS.
NickRiddle says its 60:40 Foxs advantage too... The best ZSS... lol

ZSS has 0-deaths on Squirtle too. From what I recall both sides consider the MU in squirtles advantage (but not the PT match up over all)

 

[Toby.]

Jean Paul is correct.

 

[Dekar289]

0 to death legitimate combos and the matchup isn't in that characters favour
what

 

[Toby.]

Having a 0-death combo doesn't immediately mean that the execution is practical. Practicality is the quality that ultimately decides whether such things outweigh the natural disadvantages ZSS has against squirtle/fox.

 

[EverAlert]

lol dekar

That's like saying every matchup is in ICs favour because we have a 0-death on everyone.

ICs for best character in the game, yo!

 

[Shaya]

Prediction right here:
ICs gonna drop like 8 spots on the next tier list yo.
No ones allowed to be the 2nd best melee vet in brawl other than Marth.

 

[xXArrowXx]

>.> but they are the best... if u like playing with yourself...

 

[Dekar289]

wobbling banned, ICs don't have 0 to death on everyone

oh in brawl? they have 0 to death on everyone with 1 grab? of course they are the best then, rofl
if someone learns all the 0 to deaths

all they have to do is get 3 grabs per match and they win

i get 90 grabs per match

 

[Shaya]

People avoid getting grabbed by the ice climbers when they are both there, so that the number of times they are in that situation is less than 3.

Its called spacing .

There are enough people who -know- the chain grabs with the climbers for the entire cast.
But on the other part of things, to do 0-deaths ICs need both nana and popo. And by chance one of those two get 0-deathed by pretty much any good character .

 

[Sirias]

Lolololo...
I hate ICs, and Olimar.
Sighhh...
Hate them so much... </3

 

[tedeth]

If most characters space well against ICs they'll be fine. Any character with reasonable range and shield push can avoid getting grabbed against them.

 

[Nova]

Olimar is by far the gayest and most easy to use character ever.
Oh yay I have a grab button.
Meh.

 

[tedeth]

Oh well. Wolf beats Olimar so I don't mind.

 

[Shaya]

Characters like Marth can ff fair olimars shield and grab him before olimar can grab back :\ (IIRC)

 

[Nova]

D-throw..... bleh....
I think you're one of the reasons I stopped using the little prick.

 

[luke_atyeo]

ok I concede defeat shaya, congrats on your first ever victory over me, better go celebrate

characters like luigi can fair olimars shield, and jab him before he can grab you, and luigi can jab into upB true combo on olimar (you dont even need to jab cancel it lol)

 

[Scabe]

Guys I hear that Link is really easy to pick up and looking at this character rankings list, it looks like that he does really well in tournies. I recommend anyone picking up Link!

 

[Melancholy]

Whenever I watch Scabe play I'm like, wow, maybe link isn't all that bad.
Then I play as link and I remember why I thought he was awful in the first place.

 

[Nixernator]

If Fox wasn't totally gayed by Sheik/ZSS/Pikachu I'd use him.

Ahahah yeah fox is fun, but wow having sheik picked against is the worst feeling everrr.

 

[C~Dog]

Is it worse than Pika?

 

[Shaya]

Both Pika and Sheik are pretty bad.

 

[Nixernator]

Does it really matter if you're going to lose anyway?

 

[Shaya]

Hmm... well against Sheik... id feel Id have a bit of a chance.

6 frame oos move is worse than a 12 frame one.
And both characters having extremely different hurtbox sizes.

id probably be willing to play Fox against Sheik in friendlies... I have refused to play nearly every fox vs pika friendly though. Not even worth it.