General Discussion & Character Rankings

[luke_atyeo]

yeah you guys are dumb, these things werent intentional but they got in there and either they noticed and didnt give a ****, or they didnt notice and then pretended that they did and didnt give a ****.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I feel this is the best way to explain it ^

 

[luke_atyeo]

I know right?

 

[Ghostbone]

1. This doesn't necessarily mean it was purposely programmed to be that. Just like the Infinite Dimension Cape glitch wasn't purposely programmed to be that.

Can you perhaps source something that truly indicates that Sakurai did this?

I don't know of any articles with it, but at the very least DACG was purposely programmed in (it was in Melee as well), and at least from what I've heard from the P:M developers, DACUS was very deliberately programmed in, like, it couldn't have been a mistake.
Similar to how l-cancelling (or "smooth landing") was very deliberately programmed into 64 and Melee.

It really depends on your outlook on the word "glitch" imo. Sakurai didn't intend wavedashing to be in Melee, but they found it, and didn't bother fixing it because they were on a tight schedule. I think it's up to the individual to decide whether it's a glitch, but knowing that Wavedashing wasn't meant to be in Melee in the first place is a good start.

Well I mean, while he may not have planned for it to be in the game, after it was found, they purposely left it in, in other words, they intended for it to be in the game -_-, at that point it's a feature.
And even if they didn't find wavedashing/wavelanding during development, saying that it's a glitch is as silly as saying any tactic, such as shine>bair a glitch. The codes are working exactly as they were intended.

Maybe it's one of those things he wanted people to find out, like how if you hit Starfy enough, he rages and hits you with ridiculous (it's like 3 seconds lol) hitlag, damage and knockback.

I've never heard of that, lol that's cool.

 

[xXArrowXx]

if its so deliberate why it not there in how to play and instructions?

 

[ciaza]

How to z-cancel was in the original Japanese instruction manual for Smash 64.

The more you know

- Point is, just because something is or is not in the instruction manual doesn't make it a glitch or not.

 

[Splice]

And even if they didn't find wavedashing/wavelanding during development, saying that it's a glitch is as silly as saying any tactic, such as shine>bair a glitch. The codes are working exactly as they were intended.

Are you saying that anything that can be used as a beneficial tactic through the use of multiple codes interracting with one another (even if the developers didnt find this during development) it is not a glitch?

That's the only meaning i can read into what you wrote and that would imply that you were totally supposed to walk at x2 speed underwater in Noki Bay when you ground pound on surfaces of a certain angle and cancel the infinite falling with the booster FLUDD in Super Mario Sunshine...

 

[Ghostbone]

Are you saying that anything that can be used as a beneficial tactic through the use of multiple codes interracting with one another (even if the developers didnt find this during development) it is not a glitch?

That's the only meaning i can read into what you wrote and that would imply that you were totally supposed to walk at x2 speed underwater in Noki Bay when you ground pound on surfaces of a certain angle and cancel the infinite falling with the booster FLUDD in Super Mario Sunshine...

No that's not what I'm saying.

Is it a result of codes working as intended? I highly doubt it, (I've never played Super Mario Sunshine, so I may be incorrect) it's likely caused by an oversight in the coding.

 

[Shaya]

Some things they would have been aware of happening.
Brawl was coded using a standardised engine (forget the name, but its used in A LOT of things to manage physics). They should have known the effects of certain actions that they tried to copy from the melee engine onto a standardised engine.

 

[Splice]

Brawl engine is HAVOK im pretty sure, supposed to be used for FPS games.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

yeah you guys are dumb, these things werent intentional but they got in there and either they noticed and didnt give a ****, or they didnt notice and then pretended that they did and didnt give a ****.

Just quoting this.

 

[Splice]

But why?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Because it generally answers most arguments imo.

 

[luke_atyeo]

the next question that follows is of course, why is this being argued in the first place?

 

[xXArrowXx]

if u play random can u play mk..
it seems fair to me.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No, you would have to restart the match.

 

[Rad]

Complex rules are bad. The only option is to ban Random, honestly.

 

[Invisi]

I don't see why MK would be banned if you play random. You're just as likely to get a low tier than a high tier, and perhaps more importantly, you may get a character you have no idea how to use. Random is way too unreliable to be tournament viable, but if someone wants to take a risk, why punish them when it pays off?

 

[Attila_]

Unfortunately, not picking him doesn't change any of the things that he was banned for in the first place.

 

[Shaya]

Random is a character selection option. But if MK is randomly picked then the player may be forced to re-random.

It's possible with codes to remove Meta Knight from 'random'... I'm not sure if that forces you to remove him from the character select screen completely though.

 

[Rad]

See? Too complex. Ban random.

 

[Shaya]

May as well ban diddy kong too.
THEN WE'LL HAVE A FUN GAME.

 

[Invisi]

Ban every character except Ganon for EPIC FUN GAMEZ

 

[Shaya]

No bro.
That's a slippery slope.

 

[Splice]

i thought using codes to alter the game was unallowed
If we're going to add a code to prevent MK from being used on random
Why do we still have tripping?

meh, I think we should keep tripping anyway.
It matches the community imo

The same way my black and white Dukes match my black and white cargo pants.

 

[MTGod]

You should be allowed to get MK on random - it's your gamble for a 1/35 chance, you should be rewarded for being a man.

Anyway, everyone should just embrace Brawl-. Combos are hype :D

 

[Splice]

Yeah i agree with MTG.

Well idk how i feel about Brawl-. Lucas is pretty fun in it i guess.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Anyway, everyone should just embrace Brawl-. Combos are hype :D

Brawl Minus is sorta fun, but the combos and spacing tools are too easy :/

Unfortunately, not picking him doesn't change any of the things that he was banned for in the first place.

^This^

 

[luke_atyeo]

try playing fox then, he's ****ing all over the place in brawl -
side b hax

 

[Ghostbone]

^This^

It kinda does.

You know, the whole really strong counter-picks and always having the advantage, doesn't apply with random, and the metagame doesn't centralise over picking random.

It's not really an issue, if someone is ballsy enough to pick random, then they can get MK imo.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He can still plank.

Unless you think we should have a LGL just for people who use random :/

 

[Ghostbone]

He can still plank.

Unless you think we should have a LGL just for people who use random :/

Eh, true

So if someone gets MK from random just quit the match and start again.

 

[Rad]

Stop trying to dance around the problem with your ridiculous suggestions and just ban random already.

 

[luke_atyeo]

ban characters, if you play a better character then me how is it fair?

 

[MTGod]

-really-? You're going to ban random because there's a 1/35 chance that they'll get Metaknight...? Not only would they have to get MK, they'd have to be good with him. And not only good, but because every man and his dog knows the MK matchup with their character due to the last 5 years or so of competitive brawl, they'd have to be -really- good with MK.

Moreover, there's a 34/35 chance that they -won't- get MK.

Moreover, there's a ~10-20/35 chance they'll get royally screwed over and get a character who is ****/really technical.

If anyone chooses Random against me and gets MK, I'm going to force them to play it out.

 

[Rad]

you from perth or something?

 

[Shaya]

If someone played random and got meta knight, and I knew that person could play MK I'd humbly say "oh dear sir, meta knight is banned, now change character before you get dq'd for cheating".

because twisted common sense

 

[MTGod]

I'd expect nothing less from a Martha main

 

[Grim Tuesday]

-really-? You're going to ban random because there's a 1/35 chance that they'll get Metaknight...? Not only would they have to get MK, they'd have to be good with him. And not only good, but because every man and his dog knows the MK matchup with their character due to the last 5 years or so of competitive brawl, they'd have to be -really- good with MK.

Moreover, there's a 34/35 chance that they -won't- get MK.

Moreover, there's a ~10-20/35 chance they'll get royally screwed over and get a character who is ****/really technical.

If anyone chooses Random against me and gets MK, I'm going to force them to play it out.

Fine by me. It doesn't take a good Meta Knight to beat a Lucas main, especially with no ledge-grab limit.

 

[MTGod]

It takes two :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly_4f4p01hk