General Discussion & Character Rankings

[Rad]

If MK was banned Marth wouldn't be the best, diddy would.

What kind of Marth main are you?

 

[dean.]

Dedede v Falco is very stage dependant though.

On BF it can be close to even.
Yoshi's Island and Lylat are similar.

But Smashville (well if dedede can get a lead here, he has a lot of options to camp falco with) and FD are like "LOL LOSE".

It's not like the matchup will ever get played on FD...
But it's like if you win game 1 you're in the box seat to win the set, right? VIC and Thriller/Robocop used Lylat/PS/SV/BF/YI which gives him a fighting chance I guess...
Do you still use Dedede?

His other somewhat poor matchups are Olimar 40:60, Ice Climbers 40:60, Pikachu 45:55/40:60, Diddy 45:55/40:60 and Zero Suit Samus 45:55 so it's not like he'd be broken if MK was gone, which is how this conversation I think started...

Until all Diddy's have that infinite down consistently. I doubt he'd be the best character in a non-MK environment.... Too many iffy evenish matchups scattered around.

The characters around him aren't that much better IMO. Diddy has small disadvantages to... Falco? Wario? Snake? (don't know a huge amount about the character tbh). Falco loses to Pikachu and Ice Climbers, and has a small disadvantage against Marth. Marth loses to Diddy, King Dedede, arguably Ice Climbers and Donkey Kong, etc...

 

[xXArrowXx]

diddy is good against mk.. i dont see how mk being banned benefits diddy...
u know who would be the best character if mk got banned?
snake... =P

 

[luke_atyeo]

no way, one of the reasons snake was number 2 was because he's always been the only character that can really honestly say he can go toe to toe with metaknight.

 

[Shaya]

a pikachu who knows what hes doing makes the match up against dedede impossible.

Back when Toby and I practised srsly we'd be down to the last minute on the timer with sometimes all 3 stocks up (rarely, more often or not 2 stocks for at least both of us).

Generally the low down is,
pikachu runs away the entire time,
dedede lives to 200%
dedede may get really really lucky and kill pikachu before the timer runs out / he kills you.

In the above case, then you spend your entire time being mad clutch with spot dodges, rolls and ledge camping to live at about 250% until the timer goes out.

 

[Vlade]

The characters around him aren't that much better IMO. Diddy has small disadvantages to... Falco? Wario? Snake? (don't know a huge amount about the character tbh). Falco loses to Pikachu and Ice Climbers, and has a small disadvantage against Marth. Marth loses to Diddy, King Dedede, arguably Ice Climbers and Donkey Kong, etc...

This is just imo so don't take this as fact but I think Falco vs Marth and Falco vs Diddy are both pretty dead even. I also think Diddy's only disadvantaged matchups are Wario and Snake but he can still definitely win both, there's no way it'd be worse than 60:40 for both (in fact it'd be closer to 55:45)

I thought Marth's only bad matchup was Metaknight

 

[Dekar289]

I think Falco vs Marth and Falco vs Marth are both pretty dead even

i think those matchups have the exact same ratio

 

[ViVa]

Really dekar?

 

[dean.]

This is just imo so don't take this as fact but I think Falco vs Marth and Falco vs Marth are both pretty dead even.

I agree. I was just going off the general opinion of both character boards (I think they both agreed to 55:45 Marth's advantage), because most of those posters are far better players than I'll ever be.

Really dekar?

You'd be suprised.

 

[Vlade]

Thanks for spotting that out Dekar

I agree. I was just going off the general opinion of both character boards (I think they both agreed to 55:45 Marth's advantage), because most of those posters are far better players than I'll ever be.

You could be the best DDD in Australia if you really wanted to, it's just gonna take some effort

 

[Shaya]

I call it 55:45 because Marth has 0-deaths and other things which may not occur regularly, but if you think over 100 matches? yeah something like that would occur that would give the match to the Marth player.

 

[Vlade]

I thought Brawl matchup ratios didn't really follow the whole "how many times would both characters win over the course of 100 matches"

Bleh

 

[M]

The characters around him aren't that much better IMO. Diddy has small disadvantages to... Falco? Wario? Snake? (don't know a huge amount about the character tbh). Falco loses to Pikachu and Ice Climbers, and has a small disadvantage against Marth. Marth loses to Diddy, King Dedede, arguably Ice Climbers and Donkey Kong, etc...

Actually, Diddy's more even matchups don't particularly lie in the high tier alone. Characters such as R.O.B., Luigi, and even Jigglypuff can play particularly well against Diddy Kongs. The main reason you rarely see the aforementioned characters? Meta Knight.

I'd say there's no true best character in the game with Meta Knight removed. But Marth would possibly perform the best, imo.

And lol. Marth does not lose to DK. That's a very prehistoric-era even matchup.

 

[dean.]

You could be the best DDD in Australia if you really wanted to, it's just gonna take some effort

That doesn't say a whole lot, since I'm among like two people in the whole country that actually main the character.

Actually, Diddy's more even matchups don't particularly lie in the high tier alone. Characters such as R.O.B., Luigi, and even Jigglypuff can play particularly well against Diddy Kongs. The main reason you rarely see the aforementioned characters? Meta Knight.

I'd say there's no true best character in the game with Meta Knight removed. But Marth would possibly perform the best, imo.

And lol. Marth does not lose to DK. That's a very prehistoric-era even matchup.

I actually thought that Diddy losing to Luigi/Peach/Jiggs was "prehistoric-era" stuff. Like, since Diddy's learned to fair. I agree R.O.B. could see a bit of a rise with MK gone (he has somewhat decent top-tier matchups minus a few) which may cause Diddy some problem but that's not too bad (no worse than Marth:R.O.B. probably).

I've heard arguments for both DK and Marth's advantage in that matchup but most people settle for even? Hence the "arguably" in my post. I'm not really sure about what you mean about Marth "performing the best;" is that matchup wise? I guess that's somewhat fathomable...

 

[Shaya]

i dont think the dk's have felt it was their advantage for a while.

marth ***** mk
he loses to dedede, arguably (but most likely) diddy and ICs are in the air... tbh.

Robs a harder match up than most give credit for.

 

[M]

Marth ROB is notttt even. JP bad.

And MK isnt the reason ROB is low.

The reason Luigi, Jiggs and others aren't beating Diddy's today is because MK drove them extinct. Diddy's fair was never that much of an issue for Jigglypuff.

 

[Zxv]

Peach/Diddy is a bad matchup for Peach.

edit:

Hey Zxv, maybe you should.. I dunno, main Dedede for a tournament? =P

Okay.

 

[Zero]

Whoaaaaa, is Ricky's passion back!?

 

[Attila_]

The reason Luigi, Jiggs and others aren't beating Diddy's today is because MK drove them extinct. Diddy's fair was never that much of an issue for Jigglypuff.

Diddy beats them all, Diddy mains just whine cause they need to play a little differently. Bad characters, even if they have quirks to help them out, are still bad. Poor priority, lack of combos and kos, and fundamentals matter more than gimicks in this game.

Diddy had 55:45 against mk, snake, falco and wario, depending on the stage. On other stages he reverses these numbers, however.

IMO anyway.

 

[luke_atyeo]

lol, luigi ****s diddy

luigi has priority, combos galore, ko's early then pretty much anyone in the whole game (and has more then 1 of these ****ing super ko moves), fundimentals... well, he's pretty **** there.

 

[xXArrowXx]

wow luigi is good except hes recovery..
luigi sounds like snake but lighter and cant be chain grabbed =P
i still think that people cant handle snakes item control XD but that so prehistroic era match ups =P

 

[Shaya]

Luigi's like snake but lighter, rofl.

"Luigi's like snake, but:
lighter
less range
less mobility (tornado doesn't count)
less utilt ****
less good projectile
less... manliness
oh and less stupid dthrow"

 

[Dekar289]

projectiles dont matter in brawl, not like you'll get hit, and even if you do they cant like combo off it or anything
except with diddy i guess, but that's easy too, just don't get hit

lessons $60/h
(2-0'd the best diddy and 2-0'd the best snake at dgb)

 

[Attila_]

Projectiles are impotent against for every character who isn't mk. It's the only way to keep up with mk at all; anyone without a good one gets ***** (see marth/wario/ics/d3).

 

[Dekar289]

marth ***** mk what u talking about
*aus skill level lol

 

[Jei Jei]

He's saying MK ***** Marth. L2 read nub.

 

[M]

lol <3 irony.

 

[Dekar289]

i'm saying marth ***** mk
l2 read nub

 

[Jei Jei]

...

I'm sorry

Your lack of grammar makes me think your first line was two questions.

 

[Shaya]

whut.

Marth ***** MK.

 

[Rad]

Yeah... but that's because Neutral Air is actually a projectile.

 

[tibs7]

Attila you are really stupid. you just complain/whine about diddy non-stop so your opinion doesn't count.

Diddy's fair does destroy jiggs a bit not so much luigi...he has like hi priority aerials and shiz. Nair trades with everything

 

[Attila_]

i dont care how good it is, i know that luigi's nair doesn't beat snake ftilt, and diddy's fair does, so therefore diddy fair > luigi nair. also, banana has the highest priority of any attack

 

[tibs7]

Oh god see now you look kinda silly....diddy fair has no way as much disjoint as snakes ftilt. So it's just your horrible timing and spacing to blame.

 

[tedeth]

Bananas have equal priority to anything with transcendant priority.

e.g. lasers/MK.

 

[M]

Because Snake's ftilt was really part of the topic at hand..........

Also I don't expect a Diddy to be throwing ftilt at a nairing luigi. At all. lol

 

[Attila_]

It doesn't appear to have as much disjoint as marth's fair but goes through it.

No hurtbox on his legs? Something is off with that move.

 

[Mister Eric]

rob is top tier!

 

[ViVa]

Nope.

<- This one is.

 

[Mister Eric]

=O
maybe in your country!

xP