Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

[Z1GMA]

Srsly, guys.
You'd be surprised how similar English and Swedish actually is.
We have so, so many Loan-words.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

That's what I thought for the longest time as well. But I've realized that since the start of brawl, there has been a misconception that Ganon's bad recovery and approach options cripple his game much more than can be repaired by his killing potential. However, I realize more and more now that this misconception is simply wrong.

I've been trying to think of a comparison, and I think I've come up with one. Most microscopes have two knobs to adjust the magnification... coarse (drastic adjustment) and fine (small adjustment). Most characters still have small adjustments that can still be made to their metagame; simple things like grab release combos and such, which are situational and have a very fine effect on their metagame.

However, the adjustments that can be made to Ganon's metagame are equivalent to cranking the coarse adjustment; his tools are so powerful that it any improvements to his metagame drastically alter his viability.

It's not a perfect comparison, but I think it gets the general point across.

I think I've gotten what you wanted to get across. I'd have to disagree though.

Ganon's weaknesses aren't just weaknesses. They are weaknesses that can be drastically exploited a numerous amount of time. Just having one problem like this will hinder any character, and Ganon has multiple. Most of the time you can't avoid facing these weaknesses, they're something that MUST, or WILL happen.

I think what you're defining as "coarse adjustment" is luck. Having brutal kill power, for example, gives Ganon potential. Having setups for that brutal kill power just gives him more potential, it doesn't "adjust" anything. Improvements are helpful, but only if you have the ability to properly "use" that improvement, and not depend on the person behind your opponent.

@PhantomX: Being more limited doesn't make a character easier to learn. You'll have to figure which option to use when and where, a lot more than a character with a diverse amount of options would.

For example; You're trying to punish OoS, a Wario at this point would always be able to react quickly because the player playing him knows he's capable of attacking said move OoS, he'll simply aerial FAir. A Ganon at that point would have to think more and faster of which move to use, and whether it'll work or not.

 

[A2ZOMG]

DLA, obviously you aren't aware that virtually every character in this game has gimmicks (or legit strategies/moves) that can kill you really early.

Ganon has nothing legitimately safe or applicable. Because of this he relies on the FUNDAMENTAL option of reading people which ANY good player can do with ANYONE. If he screws up, he gets *****. If other characters screw up their gimmicks, they usually don't leave themselves nearly as open.

On the other hand, mind sharing who you think Ganon might be better than?

 

[DLA]

DLA, obviously you aren't aware that virtually every character in this game has gimmicks (or legit strategies/moves) that can kill you really early.

Ganon has nothing legitimately safe or applicable. Because of this he relies on the FUNDAMENTAL option of reading people which ANY good player can do with ANYONE. If he screws up, he gets *****. If other characters screw up their gimmicks, they usually don't leave themselves nearly as open.

On the other hand, mind sharing who you think Ganon might be better than?

I am aware of everything you said. I just feel that Ganon is much better at it than most characters.

You don't NEED to be legitimately safe when you kill your opponent with 5-9 moves. Each time you hit your opponent, you get quite a bit of time to try a few other things and fail, and eat up some damage.

Sure, other characters can read their opponents. And they can be safer than Ganon while doing it. But, at risk of sounding cliche, Ganon takes big risks and gets big rewards.

Ganon's gimmicks are MUCH more deadly than most other characters' gimmicks. And many of them are much safer than you give them credit for.

I'm not trying to argue that Ganon is the best character in the game, or that he's even in the top 3/4. I'm just trying to argue that, despite his shortcomings, he's not this abysmal character who has no chance of being considered anything but the ****ty screw up character of Brawl.

edit: I think Ganon is better than Jigglypuff, Link, Zelda, and maybe a few others.

 

[TP]

It's reasonably possible that Ganon is not the worst character, although I would currently still say that he is. However, to say he is potentially better than Jigglypuff is to ignore how amazing Jigglypuff can be when used right. Jiggs is one of the hardest characters to use, I'd say. Very few people do it right.

 

[Sovereign]

To imagine each character at the peak of their metagame, would the placement of any character change?

 

[PhantomX]

I am aware of everything you said. I just feel that Ganon is much better at it than most characters.

You don't NEED to be legitimately safe when you kill your opponent with 5-9 moves. Each time you hit your opponent, you get quite a bit of time to try a few other things and fail, and eat up some damage.

Sure, other characters can read their opponents. And they can be safer than Ganon while doing it. But, at risk of sounding cliche, Ganon takes big risks and gets big rewards.

Ganon's gimmicks are MUCH more deadly than most other characters' gimmicks. And many of them are much safer than you give them credit for.

I'm not trying to argue that Ganon is the best character in the game, or that he's even in the top 3/4. I'm just trying to argue that, despite his shortcomings, he's not this abysmal character who has no chance of being considered anything but the ****ty screw up character of Brawl.

edit: I think Ganon is better than Jigglypuff, Link, Zelda, and maybe a few others.

Actually, in this game you do need to be safe, especially when everyone else can kill your character in less than 5-9 moves via gimps or chain grabs or locks or whatever. He doesn't have the ability or tools to survive his big mistakes. Link is similar in this regard, but he is fortunate enough to have item/disjointed spacing tools, at the very least.

 

[Superspright]

To imagine each character at the peak of their metagame, would the placement of any character change?

I don't understand. We are at the peak of their metagame, even if it is increasing. If you mean that people will develop their techs further, or will learn how to do things on reaction better? Sure, it will always get more intense. I just wish someone could become godly enough to chain choke MK all day.

 

[Clai]

I am aware of everything you said. I just feel that Ganon is much better at it than most characters.

You don't NEED to be legitimately safe when you kill your opponent with 5-9 moves. Each time you hit your opponent, you get quite a bit of time to try a few other things and fail, and eat up some damage.

Sure, other characters can read their opponents. And they can be safer than Ganon while doing it. But, at risk of sounding cliche, Ganon takes big risks and gets big rewards.

Ganon's gimmicks are MUCH more deadly than most other characters' gimmicks. And many of them are much safer than you give them credit for.

I'm not trying to argue that Ganon is the best character in the game, or that he's even in the top 3/4. I'm just trying to argue that, despite his shortcomings, he's not this abysmal character who has no chance of being considered anything but the ****ty screw up character of Brawl.

edit: I think Ganon is better than Jigglypuff, Link, Zelda, and maybe a few others.

Really, the bold part is why Ganondorf will always be the worst character in Brawl. Brawl will always be about minimizing risk and maximizing reward, and Ganondorf has no way that he can reduce his risks. A good player can cover Ganon's weaknesses as long as he can, but even then, there's always the chance an equally-skilled player can read his move and then exploit Ganon's weaknesses hardcore. If Ganondorf had a quick short-range option or simply a jab safe on shield, he would be a much better character. Now, he's condemned to the worst in the game, although for a worst character in the game, Ganon's a pretty legit character (lololololPichu)

I do admit that what you're saying now was the reason why I thought Ganondorf might be better than Captain Falcon, but that was until I realized that Falcon can be a lot safer than Ganon if he wants to be.

 

[Hobs]

Aww, I missed the Olympic discussion. Well, for all you who think Canada gets all the snow, remember that it's mostly just the big North area. I live close to Toronto and we've had about 5cm of snow this Winter. You see a lot of snow in the Olympics because it's held in the West with all the mountains and such.

Guys...

I'm beginning to think that Ganon isn't nearly the worst character in the game.

This may sound like a generic argument in Ganon's favor, but just listen. The more I fight top players in my region/nation, the more I realize how much Ganon's obscene killing power helps him. It really is absolutely ridiculous how early Ganon can kill and how easily he can rack up damage if he predicts his opponent well. Of course his recovery is balls and he can't really approach or camp. But his offensive capabilities make up for it, MUCH more than most of you give him credit for.

Of course, you can go into theorycrafting mode and assume that everyone plays perfectly every match, but that's simply not true. If I'm fighting someone in brackets for the first time (especially if they lack Ganon experience), I've found it REALLY easy to predict my opponents, get inside, and just ****. No matter how good they are. I don't really think the Ganon boards fully realize: stomp can kill at 80%. Dash attack can kill at 90%. Fsmash can kill at like, 60%.

And here's the best part: after flame choke, Ganon can TECH CHASE into any of these. And it will HIT them and KILL them.

WTF.

It's all about the prediction, folks. THAT is the key to winning with Ganon. I'm convinced that Ganon is only at the bottom spot because the metagame is so underdeveloped for low tier characters.

Could you imagine someone like M2K playing Ganon? Every time he makes an accurate prediction/tech chase, his opponent would get like 50 damage. Either that or die. It's obscene if you think about it.

If the same amount of players that used MK also used Ganon, his killing potential would carry him over at least 2 or 3 tiers. His recovery would obviously hold him back, as would his lack of options to deal with camping. But his killing power gives him so much potential, when considering how much it helps to accurately predict your opponent.

This is why I've never personally felt that my character is bottom tier, no matter how good my opponent is (except maybe Lain lol - his icies make me feel like ****).

Nonsense. lolignorantdismissal.

I think Ganon's potential really relies on skill level as PX and Kalm said. The closer you get to perfect play, the less you use punishing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pichu comparatively speaking is leagues better than Brawl Ganondorf, although yeah, he does have an unwinnable against Sheik. But he isn't really the worst character in Melee anyway. That would be more like...Kirby or Ness, who are just slow and a bunch of fail that don't really have very good combos, approaches, and are easily gimped as well.

Brawl Ganondorf is complete utter competitive fail that has no real way of landing hits reliably. Although I will say that he was close to being a decent character. Small changes on various things could have made him a pretty good character.

As for Ganon being better than Link, Jiggs, and Zelda.

Ganon's only advantage on Link is KO power and gimps really, but aside from that he's worse at everything else...besides I guess recovery, which is debatable when you factor tether saves and Bombs. Link has camping, which includes a lagless Z-air that combos into DA/DACUS legitimately, and a way to generate an item. Link also has a solid Jab cancel, a virtually safe D-smash, a F-smash with massive range, and a D-air that can put a lot of shield pressure on opponents. Link also has useable B reversals, which are important for escaping juggles.

Jigglypuff is CLEARLY underrated on the current tier list and Ganondorf really does not compete with this character at all. She has very good spacing, Pound is a gay move that has good reward overall, she is ungimpable and good at edgeguarding, she has a gdlk grab, and D-air can combo into Rest if you confirm a trip. She also can time people out if she gets a lead.

Zelda...I guess she's pretty much trash. HOWEVER, she can be frustrating for DDD and the Ice Climbers.

 

[DLA]

Eh, I've given up arguing about this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

However, most people that I've tried to explain myself to today (not only on the Ganon boards but on AIB as well - I made a blog) has dismissed my arguments by making blanket statements about Brawl. In my opinion, this is oversimplifying a very complex game. A lot of these general statements are, in my opinion, misconceptions that have been held since they first came about after Brawl's release. They were probably oversimplifications then, too.

I'm not asking you guys to agree with me; I'm just encouraging you to let go of these preconceived notions of "how Brawl is meant to be played," and try to understand where I'm coming from. You may see some more merit in what I'm saying.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Ganon is an easy character to play because of how limited his options are and how few technical things he has.

This is why I disagree with TP's saying Jigglypuff is hard to use.

 

[Clai]

Eh, I've given up arguing about this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

However, most people that I've tried to explain myself to today (not only on the Ganon boards but on AIB as well - I made a blog) has dismissed my arguments by making blanket statements about Brawl. In my opinion, this is oversimplifying a very complex game. A lot of these general statements are, in my opinion, misconceptions that have been held since they first came about after Brawl's release. They were probably oversimplifications then, too.

I'm not asking you guys to agree with me; I'm just encouraging you to let go of these preconceived notions of "how Brawl is meant to be played," and try to understand where I'm coming from. You may see some more merit in what I'm saying.

Listen, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, I really am, but what we're saying are not "preconceived notions of how Brawl is meant to be played-" they're fundamental game mechanics. Brawl is a complex game, but, like any other fighting game, it's all a matter of option select- your character's options against your opponent's character's options and it's up to the player to predict which option your opponent is going to use and make your selection based on it. Character viability and tier placement are not about banking that your opponent doesn't know what to do, it's about your opponent knowing all of your options and planning the best responses for those options.

No matter which way you look at it, proper shieldcamping and/or proper aggressive play will demolish Ganondorf every single time- they beat out all of Ganondorf's options (the first because most of Ganondorf's moves are horribly unsafe on shield and the second because Ganondorf literally has no option that's faster than 7 frames, excluding dodges and rolls which your opponent can react to and punish) and Ganondorf has no options that can beat it. When Ganondorf has the ability to exercise his options, he can be a force, but a smart opponent will not let that happen because his options will always be superior to Ganondorf's.

 

[DLA]

Lol my last post sounded a bit more "cosmic" than I would have liked.

What I was trying to say is, yeah, you can throw around frame data and rip on his OoS punishing and whatnot, but these figures are all castles in the sky (I doubt I used that phrase correctly). You can theorycraft all you want, but once you get down to actually playing brawl against someone in a tournament match, you're not going to have frame data running through your head. It's mostly intuition. I don't mean to downplay all of the data everyone gathers; it's useful when coming up with very specific strategies and techs. But when I brawl, it's more about getting momentum, using mindgames, and just relentlessly challenging my opponent. I'm not sure I can put it any better than that.

So in conclusion... Ganon may be bottom on the tier list - the chart that the SBR made based on raw data collected from characters - but I feel that a Ganon player is more of a threat in a tournament match than a Link or Jigglypuff player of equal skill, due to the game momentum, mindgames, and other aspects of Brawl that don't involve numbers.

 

[Clai]

Lol my last post sounded a bit more "cosmic" than I would have liked.

What I was trying to say is, yeah, you can throw around frame data and rip on his OoS punishing and whatnot, but these figures are all castles in the sky (I doubt I used that phrase correctly). You can theorycraft all you want, but once you get down to actually playing brawl against someone in a tournament match, you're not going to have frame data running through your head. It's mostly intuition. I don't mean to downplay all of the data everyone gathers; it's useful when coming up with very specific strategies and techs. But when I brawl, it's more about getting momentum, using mindgames, and just relentlessly challenging my opponent. I'm not sure I can put it any better than that.

So in conclusion... Ganon may be bottom on the tier list - the chart that the SBR made based on raw data collected from characters - but I feel that a Ganon player is more of a threat in a tournament match than a Link or Jigglypuff player of equal skill, due to the game momentum, mindgames, and other aspects of Brawl that don't involve numbers.

I know where you're going with this, and I agree that if your opponent doesn't know how to stop Ganondorf and is relying on intuition, Ganondorf can be a pretty scary guy. But play anybody who has enough experience fighting Ganondorf or is capable of applying frame data into specific strategies, and you're not going to have a chance.

If you want to know what I'm talking about, next time M2K comes into town (don't both you guys enter No Koast tournies?), challenge him. He is insanely aggressive when it comes to fighting Ganondorf, and once he gets inside, it becomes a slaughter. Ganondorf cannot stop MK from going up all over him and just taking him to town. Most MK's tend to hesitate when it comes to being full-on aggressive, and you can capitalize on those moments and take them out, but M2K? I got creamed and it was hilarious, yet frustrating that I couldn't find a way to get off the **** train.This is an extreme example, of course, but I'm trying to say that one the other player knows how to neutralize Ganondorf's threats, there's not much you can do.

 

[Sovereign]

I know where you're going with this, and I agree that if your opponent doesn't know how to stop Ganondorf and is relying on intuition, Ganondorf can be a pretty scary guy. But play anybody who has enough experience fighting Ganondorf or is capable of applying frame data into specific strategies, and you're not going to have a chance.

If you want to know what I'm talking about, next time M2K comes into town (don't both you guys enter No Koast tournies?), challenge him. He is insanely aggressive when it comes to fighting Ganondorf, and once he gets inside, it becomes a slaughter. Ganondorf cannot stop MK from going up all over him and just taking him to town. Most MK's tend to hesitate when it comes to being full-on aggressive, and you can capitalize on those moments and take them out, but M2K? I got creamed and it was hilarious, yet frustrating that I couldn't find a way to get off the **** train.This is an extreme example, of course, but I'm trying to say that one the other player knows how to neutralize Ganondorf's threats, there's not much you can do.

If GIMR would upload the vid of my Ganondorf vs. M2K, you'd see that being aggressive against Ganondorf isn't always the best option, even for an MK such as M2K's. Ganondorf, in my honest opinion, is an anti-aggressor in the heat of battle. He can't stop combos, but he can stop an aggressive play style and force a more cautious approach from the opponent.

On FD, everytime he got me offstage it was a struggle to KO me, because of Ganon's Uair, and my knowing what MK was capable of off stage, and what attacks he was more likely to use, than not. M2K made mistake off stage, and I hadn't touched him, and he got spiked to his death from 0%.

On PS1, I managed to Flame Choke M2K twice, and after both I would palm him away, only for him to try returning at me with a Mach Tornado. After the first time, I saw that he did it again, and prepared a nice Fsmash, that blasted through his Mach Tornado. After that, M2K didn't return at me with a Mach Tornado, again, as there were more Flame Chokes followed by the palm. Before these matches, I fought Capem's MK, and he did the same thing, after being palmed from a Flame Choke, which is how I adapted to M2K, during our matches.

You simply can't be aggressive against Ganondorf. I just don't believe it's possible to do, without taking massive damage.

 

[PhantomX]

I will gladly go aggro against a Ganon with Wario to get a grab and then CG him to 100 and then be a **** until I can kill him.

 

[Dre89]

You may not be able to be aggressive against Gdorf but you certainly camp him to death.

I know I'm not a good enough player for my opinion to hold any weight, but the one thing that stops me getting excited about maining Gdorf (I don't have a main at the moment, I'm looking for one) is that Gdorf gets camped by most of the cast.

To me, DLAs ideas sound reasonable if you're against a DK or something like that, but a Toon or Oli is just going to camp you so much that even if you read them there won't be too much you can do about it.

Again, I'm no M2K, so if what I've said is wrong let me know.

 

[Xyro77]

Guys/Girls, are you sick of where your character ranks on the tier list? Do you want to do something about it but dont really know how? Check out this thread and help out!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9706679#post9706679

 

[*JuriHan*]

lol <3 when xyro randomly spams stuff

 

[fromundaman]

Xyro, while that may/IMO is true of some low tiers, Ganon is def. the worst in the game without a doubt. Go post that in the Mario boards

 

[adumbrodeus]

I wish Ganon wasn't so bad... but what can you do?

 

[Vermanubis]

Ooh, we're talking about Ganon's tier placement. I actually wrote this thing I'm about to copypasta on AiB in response to DLA's blog. Couldn't hurt to post it here, too, I suppose.

A lot of people tend to confuse Ganondorf with being bad, and his tier placement. Let's face it: bad characters do not exist in Brawl. Each one has explosive potential if the right person is using them. Ganondorf is no exception. Ganondorf belongs at the very bottom; but he is not a bad character. Not by a long shot. Sorely disadvantaged? You know it. But bad? Not a chance.

Let's examine some of the facets of Ganon and take things from there. I'm going to list the fundamental traits of a given character and examine Ganon's aptitude in a given area.

KO potential: Monumental. It's absurd how low Ganon can kill at. But this obvious strength has some equally obvious weaknesses.

In theory, if fresh, Ganon can take out most non-heavyweights around 90%-110% with average DI. But we have several problems we're faced with. Ganon's kill moves are also his primary combat moves. Dair, dash attack, uair, etc. Logic denotes that this entails move decay; something Ganon suffers from worse than anyone in the game. Ganon lands so few hits that he can't effectively refresh his moves. Yet, by the time the opponent is within killing range, your moves are stale enough to prevent a KO, save for Fsmash, which is seldom Ganon's finisher unless the opponent is reckless. We take this into account, and see that in general, Ganon is not an auto-KO tankard. Now let's be honest, you'll never kill a Snake below 130% unless you're very lucky and VERY conservative. Otherwise, expect 140%+ until a kill. With superb DI? I don't even want to guess how high.

Offense/Defense/Approach: Ganon's offensive game is very iffy. He lacks an approach in all senses of the word, but he can have brief periods of aggression when the opponent is under pressure. But his major problem with this is the fact that due to his painfully slow speed in all areas, he relies on the opponent being a little too ballsy, or a little too audacious and getting punished for it. But if the opponent plays very defensively, what's Ganon to do? Having no safe approaches, no way to circumvent shields in any way, Ganon is left devoid of options.

Ganon's primary advantage is that people underestimate him. They assume he is bad enough that he can be strong-armed and subjugated. This is the kind of fallacy Ganon THRIVES off of. The opponent feels like a wuss/sissy if they play defensively/"gay" against Ganondorf, so they let their aggressive side supersede their rational and end up losing the set because of it.

It is the common misconception that Ganondorf is better than he really is thanks to inexperienced players in this match-up. I can't tell you how many people I've won against because they had no idea how to play against Ganon. They saw me buffering and doing all sorts of crazy wizkick tricks, and were confused and at a loss. If you take a person who knows Ganon's Achilles heel, you'll find yourself rarely landing a hit, and every time you attempt to, you get punished. A fun fact: even Captain Falcon can camp Ganondorf.

Then we examine his close-quarters game. Ganon excels close-range depending on who's laying on the pressure. Ganon has no reliable shieldgrab, and 8 frames of jumping lag. This puts him in a stalemate and forces him to either keep his shield up, or roll backwards. So, overall, we see that, like most of Ganon's other strengths, is very circumstantial.

Tech-chase game: My personal favorite as some of you may know. Ganondorf has, in some respects, THE best tech-chase game in Brawl. But it is also the riskiest and most difficult to execute. There are also some characters who you simply could never warlock choke to begin with. Not to mention some character's rolls are far too long to tech-chase. Zelda, Snake, Ike, etc.

Tech-chasing is flashy, and HIGHLY effective on a linear scale. But unlike against Snake or G&W, there are things you can do to avoid total annihilation against Ganon's tech-chase. If you never roll-towards Ganon after be warlock choked (fsmash, dair, etc.), limit your get-up attacks and try to mix up between GUA, standing DI and rolling away, Ganon's tech-chase game loses efficacy very rapidly.

We're starting to see a trend. The fact that Ganon's strengths are not constant.

Recovery: I don't think I need to explain this one. Ganon's recovery, I will argue, is the worst in the game. Worse than Link's, even. Link's lacks the vertical distance Ganon's does, but its hitbox remains constant and is far more difficult in comparison to edgeguard. Ganondorf's recovery has two hitboxes that can hit the opponent, and both are telegraphed like a son of a *****. If you play a smart MK as Ganon, you will be thrown offstage, dair'd, and edgeguarded at 20%. Let's also not forget what makes Ganon's recovery even worse: the fact that its knockback is so pathetic, that after 50%, if Ganon latches onto you with his darkdive, you can buffer your quickest aerial out of the darkdive and effectively gimp Ganon.

So, with everything here taken into account, we notice a very egregious trend: Ganon's strengths do not remain constant. Unlike Link, Zelda, Falcon or the other G/F tiers, Ganons strengths are not consistent and are highly variable. What makes Ganon appear better than some other characters at first glance is the fact that he can punish stupidity harder than almost anyone. But remove a large portion of the stupidity/ineptitude from the equation, and Ganon is left nigh barren. We look at Link and Zelda and see that they may not have strengths as overwhelmingly devastating as Ganondorf's, but their strengths are not subject to change and remain fairly consistent.

Do not get me wrong. Ganondorf, even against a highly skilled and equally competent opponent can perform admirably. In my 5 months of maining Ganondorf, I've conquered some pretty tough and reputable opponents, both in friendlies and in competitive play; many of the Ganon "titans" have. But the fact of the matter remains that Ganondorf is entirely unique in the regard that his strengths are totally variable. Your opponent's playstyle can alter the outcome so dramatically that it boggles the mind. But, unfortunately, the playstyle that usually lands us Ganons wins is one that is not highly respected in high levels of play.

In closing, Ganondorf is not a bad character. Not in your wildest dreams could he even be considered as such. But he deserves his tier placement simply because he is not a reliable character, and his weaknesses are of such multitude and so readily exposed. He is a Yin-Yang character.

If you choose to play like you should against Ganon, if you want to win, that is, then you'll never witness defeat by his hand. If you feel bad for playing gay against Ganon and underestimate him, you will lose every time. Simple as that. We critically evaluate Ganondorf's general aptitude, and we see, plainly, that everything he has is made a strength by the player behind him. As a character, Ganondorf has almost zero inherent strengths aside from his raw brutality.

A character cannot be deemed good, or better than another, if they do not show constant strengths in any given area(s). Ganon demonstrates one universal strength regularly, but with heavy stipulations. Bottom line: he is too variable; too unreliable; to rise in the tier list.

 

[Divilenta]

That had to be the most epic wall of text I have ever read. :O

Dumb question: Who's Inui?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Unfortunately, bad is relative as is good,so while Akuma in Brawl would be ok at best, Akuma in Super Turbo is amazing. Ganondorf is bad. Nothing wrong with a positive attitude though.

That had to be the most epic wall of text I have ever read. :O

Dumb question: Who's Inui?

A particularly arrogant MK main, he's a pretty good player for AN (which is saying something, but not truly top), and he's a pretty cool guy overall imo, but he comes off as a **** a lot of the time.

 

[TP]

He's also a VERY conservative republican. Take from that whatever you want.

How the **** did aDUMBbrodeus get in the SBR? That guy couldn't debate his way out of a paper bag.

JK <3 good job getting in.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Thanks TP, and yes, the Ganon boards now have somebody on the inside, mwahahaha!

 

[Ganonsburg]

Haha, I was thinking, "Who's the guys with the purple name and avatar...I don't remember seeing him before."

Nice job, adumbrodeus. *thumbsup*

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

I think every member of the ganon board deserves to be in the sbr since they're so smart.

 

[PhantomX]

It always surprises me when random people get into the SBR, haha.

 

[TP]

Hey guys, I'm gonna be in the SBR some day.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm... random?

*is hurt*


After all we've been through together, haven't I proved my knowledge of the metagame and intelligence, I thought we were friends... *cries*

j/k

 

[Riolufin]

If you want to be placed on this list, post here and I will probably play you personally. If not, I'm sure someone else will.

I wanna get tested if I have changes to get in the list.

 

[*JuriHan*]

psh, I could even get in the SBR

Spoiler

if I slept with the right person

>.>

 

[thexsunrosered]

I'm... random?

*is hurt*


After all we've been through together, haven't I proved my knowledge of the metagame and intelligence, I thought we were friends... *cries*

j/k

woah how'd you get in the back rooooommmmm

 

[fromundaman]

Verm, the thing is, he is bad compared to other characters. Your basic point is true though, this is a game where any character can look beastly with the right player playing it.

Oh, and congrats Ambrodeus.

 

[adumbrodeus]

woah how'd you get in the back rooooommmmm

Cause I'm smart... I think.

Verm, the thing is, he is bad compared to other characters. Your basic point is true though, this is a game where any character can look beastly with the right player playing it.

Oh, and congrats Ambrodeus.

Thanks bro, and you're right, that's why judging MUs by individuals is wrong.

 

[*JuriHan*]

 

[Clai]

^^^^

What people don't see is what happens the moment after that picture, where Ganondorf Warlock Punches all the Jigglypuffs into a void of black soullessness.