Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

[Clai]

I didn't forget about this:

When you land on the ground, just near Olimar's grab reach, Olimar wouldn't want to be doing anything but grab. Retreating to throw Pikmins will get him punished, anything else can be shield grabbed. You're purposely putting yourself in a position you can be grabbed to force Olimar to stay in your range. A quick DJ allows you to avoid that grab attempt and draws Olimar near you. Since, obviously, Ganon can't punish Olimars grabs, you'll have to force out another little bait. You're in mid range now, baiting & trapping at this point should be fairly easy.

There's a big difference in the amount of hits you need on Rob and the amount of hits on Olimar before you can go for the kill. You can get a good 28% off of gerudo on Olimar, that's about 1/3rd of the percent a fresh dash attack will kill him. Olimar's also vulnerable to gimping.. Rob, not so much.

An Olimar player is not going to be forced to do anything because Ganondorf has nothing that can pose as a threat that can't be reacted to. Using Adumbrodeus' 8-frame reaction time threshold that the top of the metagame (supposedly) has, the only move on the ground that is faster than reaction time is his grab, which has LOL range. Ganondorf's other options that are faster than reaction time, Uair and Nair, go clean over Olimar if Ganondorf tries jumping and hitting him with a rising aerial.

That means that unless Ganondorf is literally right next to Olimar, he can't do anything that the Olimar player can't react to.

Also, good luck shieldgrabbing a completely disjointed F-smash, which has more range than Ganon's grab.

Not true. If Olimar just waits and react then he's ASKING to be mindgamed. You can also react to something not done.

The Olimar player isn't going to be mindgamed once he knows that he can beat everything Ganon can do on reaction. If Ganondorf is trying to mindgame Olimar, Olimar can just retreat, keeping all of his options open while outrunning Ganon's walk because Ganondorf is slow (I'm not counting dashing because starting a dash makes Ganondorf incapable of shielding for a little bit, which Olimar can abuse).

Mistake on my part. Advantage in position was what I meant.



Doesn't matter how spaced the BAir was. Rob will always be at a positional advantage if the BAir was used at the proper moment, which really isn't hard to figure.

I'm abstaning from this one until I can physically test this out. I'll check whether ROB can follow up a power-shielded B-air with a move that can hit Ganon due to the auto-spacing. My reasoning was that ROB would be too far away from being able to hit Ganon, making the positional advantage neutral.

Best Ganon can do is shield it. The Rob will have the 'advantage' whether it's NAir hits on shield or not.

ROB's Nair hits on frame 18 and ends on frame 47. Ganondorf will have plenty of time to punish that, especially from powershield.

Shielding/dodging always puts Ganon at a disadvantage, more so then other characters. If he's forced to shield dodge frequently, then it just makes an already hard to hit task harder. Also, Rob can quite definitely follow up on his projectiles.

ROB can only follow up on a glidetossed gyro. Laser and gyro release has too much cooldown for ROB to follow up on them.

Shielding and/or dodging does not make hitting the other character harder if it allows you to circumvent the opponent's far-range combat with minimal effort and if the opponent cannot punish you for using the shield/dodge.

The main problem with BAir is, if the Rob player has even the slightest common sense, getting hit by it whether on shield or not will be the worst that can happen to you in the match thanks to how abusive it can be.

As I said, I'm going to test ROB's B-air and see if using it allows ROB to threaten Ganon with something else. If it doesn't, as long as I can shield it without difficulty, I don't care how much ROB abuses it, as it isn't a threat (if my testing supports what I say).

Ganon can avoid projectiles all day if he likes, but, whenever he gets close enough to approach, he will keep hitting a move he can't do anything about. That's why projectiles become even more frustrating out of BAir. Rob's retreating NAir also plays a huge roll in keeping Ganon away.

Lasers coming out of ROB's Bair. Awesome.

Seriously, though, I'm only going to be focusing on ROB's moves that actually cause a threat to Ganondorf. How Ganondorf deals with those moves is what's going to determine the matchup, not any of the other stuff.

Lasers will eat shield up and struggle Ganon into moving. Ganon can't stay idle because of this. And, if you were to 'avoid' lasers, you wouldn't be idled, would you?

Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but I assume you take idling as not moving? This needs to be clarified better before I can respond.

Did Rob suddenly lose his ability to laser?

I was talking about what Ganondorf can do with a projectile compared to what he does without a projectile. Nothing that I said in that quote was related to ROB.

I agree, but this doesn't excuse you from being extra positive about certain match-ups.

The general match-up discussion usually consists of people throwing around blanket statements, treating them as absolutes, then creating match-up ratios based on those. With the exception of rare cases (Olimar), statements such as "Ganondorf is completely overwhelmed, he can't do anything to stop XXX) are probably untrue; the physical data simply doesn't support it. Ganondorf has answers to other characters' options- it's just a matter of digging into the physical data and finding them.

With the physical evidence, we can discover that either a match-up is much more manageable than we thought or that I'm completely wrong and the match-up IS that bad. If anything, shouting positive views that goes against the consensus will hopefully force you to research the matter and prove me wrong with facts instead of mere speculation.

Your signature says otherwise.

Allow me to explain.

Human beings (especially those in anime) have an amazing capability of summoning unparalleled amounts of strength when they reach an emotional or physical limit. This limit can only be reached if they attempt to do the impossible, and they don't know about this limit or their newfound strength, but once they reach it, they are capable of performing feats that everyone else wouldn't have dreamed of. That's why nothing is truly impossible when it comes to human beings- even if it appears that an enemy is capable of defeating every single option a hero can use, the hero can summon enough inner strength to obliterate what was once zero percent odds and prevail in the end.

Characters in Brawl are incapable of doing such things. Me being incredibly passionate about Ganondorf is not going to make his moves faster, or have more priority, or start having frame advantages on shield. If frame data says that an opponent's options will beat Ganondorf 100% of the time, they WILL beat Ganondorf 100% of the time. No exceptions (For everyone's sake, I am not looking to start another 1-99 argument. This is just my view on it). I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I can win a matchup where the physical data doesn't say "Ganondorf is likely going to lose,' but instead says "Ganondorf WILL LOSE!"

Simply put, the principles of Gurren-Lagann cannot fully apply to Brawl. Speaking of which, I spent the last hours of my 21st birthday last Wednesday watching the second movie, but Megavideo's stupid viewing limit prevented me from seeing the end. Experiencing the end must be my first priority.

 

[Bahamut777]

I dunno, when i'm waiting for someone i beat up Sandbag, and I swear i get a little better when i do

Of course you do! Even an armless would **** the sandbag using Ganon! 8D

 

[adumbrodeus]

I strongly disagree with this statement. Samus has one of the best recoveries in the game.

She's extremely floaty and good at stalling, and she has projectiles and a pretty gay F-air, and her tether is super long and her Up-B is incredibly gdlk for recovery in general. Doing anything to this character offstage is really hard...unless your Metaknight I guess.

And I really don't consider Samus abysmal, since I've played against a good Samus quite a lot. I think the character is better than low tier, only hindered by low KO power, but solid in everything else important (which is staying safe and doing consistent damage. Good survivability and edgeguarding also help her). The character in high level play also seems extremely competent against Snake at the very least.

Samus is complete and utter s*** all around, you're honestly asking to get laughed at. Her spacing game is balls, her projectile game is balls, she can't KO, she has horrible traps, she's just a bad character.



Now, yes, she's got a good recovery, the main issue is that her moves to fend people off while recovering are horrible and she can't get high enough to avoid contact with Ganon all the time.


Not saying he has the advantage, but the idea that it's not possible requires proof.

If frame data/hit bubbles is that seriously desired, then you would need to do the same treatment for both sides. You're over centralizing Ganon's gimping abilities here.

Also, Samus' recovery already provides some evidence in itself. A2zomg gave a fairly good example.

"Can't" has burden of proof, if there is an optimal recovery pattern that Ganon can never beat, please show it, cause I haven't encountered one, and if Xyro isn't doing it, theorycraft is the only real illustration.

Ganon really doesn't have an answer to a Samus who intelligently stalls offstage and reacts to when you jump offstage and throws out homing missiles to limit where you can go to edgeguard her. She is both floaty and agile in the air, and her Z-air not only grabs the ledge from 9000 miles away, she can abuse the properties of canceling airdodges with it to really screw up attempts to punish her.

For the matter not many characters can really reliably cover her vast options she has for recovering.

"Reliably", nobody thinks that he'll gimp her every time, but the idea that it will never happen... just a little far-fetched.

 

[Swoops]

An Olimar player is not going to be forced to do anything because Ganondorf has nothing that can pose as a threat that can't be reacted to. Using Adumbrodeus' 8-frame reaction time threshold that the top of the metagame (supposedly) has.

Lol, I love how people decide to establish the "top of the metagame's" reaction time. Arguing solely with numbers that are inherently flawed. (I wasn't directing this particularly at you Clai, or any one person, just so nobody get's the wrong idea.) There are many factors that go into human reaction time, that to say that a top player will have the ability to react to a 8 frame move is ridiculous. People throw around data and show the results of "reaction tests" like it's undeniable science. Truth is, reaction tests themselves don't actually mimic the behavior in a situation like this. A light turns green, and you click. But you never factor in that you're anticipating something to happen already. Nothing else can happen but the light turning green. There's only one response you have to worry about. A more accurate (though not completely accurate) test would be something that was going to turn either green or red. If it turns green, you click. If it turns red, you hit the spacebar. I know that no one gave out a reaction time test link, but I'm trying to explain that people are incredibly simplifying numbers that are very vague in real life, and then trying to pass them off as numbers that prove that you're right. No one realizes how much anticipation actually factors into what you can "react" to.

It's isolated numbers V.S. experience. I can theoretically react to 8 frame moves, but I know that there's no chance in hell I will unless my anticipation of a certain move pays off.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Samus is complete and utter s*** all around, you're honestly asking to get laughed at. Her spacing game is balls, her projectile game is balls, she can't KO, she has horrible traps, she's just a bad character.

Now, yes, she's got a good recovery, the main issue is that her moves to fend people off while recovering are horrible and she can't get high enough to avoid contact with Ganon all the time.

Her spacing game is balls? Nah, it's constantly underestimated. She has a F-tilt that has MORE RANGE than Marth's that hits on frame 7. Her Jab isn't a bad move, just it's growth based and works at mid to high percents. Her projectiles should rarely hit you, but they're low lag, meaning it's not like it's simple to punish her even if you powershield missiles and charge shot consistently. Her Z-air however is SUPER gay to avoid because it's a frame 9 move that outranges everything can be used out of airdodge. Pressuring her is obnoxiously difficult not just because of Z-air, but also since Bombs are basically mini-grenades that let her stall in the air. Horrible traps? Her F-air and Dash attack are GOOD trap setups, and she has solid edgeguard options due to her excellent recovery and projectile options. Her D-air is also super safe on block and is a pretty **** setup or combo starter that has what seems to be infinite priority.

Yeah she can't kill you early in any real way besides random gimps. She can however KO you fairly easily when you reach an appropriate KO percent. U-tilt anti-airs the **** out of stuff and is a virtually safe move that has like the range of Snake's U-tilt. D-tilt is 6 frames and can be comboed into. Charge shot is pretty easy to land for edgeguards. F-smash isn't neccessarily horrible once you realize it's a frame 10 move that can be angled and has good leanback.

And lol at her moves to stop edgeguarders being horrible. You might as well say that everyone not named Metaknight is horrible at safely spacing while recovering, but Samus is better than that by being able to stall. Aside from that, F-air is a very disjointed move that comes out fast. She has projectiles and airdodge -> Z-air. Ganon can't do **** to Samus anyway when she recovers low. She'll survive U-air spikes most of the time which really aren't safe against her anyway.

I really don't see how this character is terrible when she survives forever, can do a lot of super safe damage and combo efficiently, is VERY difficult to pressure, and has good edgeguarding. She's certainly not amazing, but she has too many options to be horrible.

My friend plays a very good Samus, and after playing him so much in this matchup, I really think Samus is more a very technical character rather than horrible. Her lack of a solid shieldgrab and low KO power are more "annoying" than actually crippling for this character. This character is really really good at doing things that are stupidly safe that will eventually pick your defenses apart, and while her camping isn't amazing, camping her back isn't exactly a very good option most of the time, so most characters are forced to approach her.

 

[B!squick]

GUYS, guys... comment on how much more awesome my beard is than Ganondorf's.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/JayDeth1/P2160019.jpg

 

[Xyro77]

Samus is complete and utter s*** all around, you're honestly asking to get laughed at. Her spacing game is balls, her projectile game is balls, she can't KO, she has horrible traps, she's just a bad character.



Now, yes, she's got a good recovery, the main issue is that her moves to fend people off while recovering are horrible and she can't get high enough to avoid contact with Ganon all the time.

The lack of you MU exp is astounding.

 

[Moblin]

A good samus ***** my ganon with Zair spacing, like they should be.

 

[Noobicidal]

GUYS, guys... comment on how much more awesome my beard is than Ganondorf's.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/JayDeth1/P2160019.jpg

Finally, something SOCIAL related. Assuming that this is you (due to me never seeing a picture of you in the past to use as a standard of measurement), your beard is pretty impressive.

It will never beat the King of Evil's beard, however.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The lack of you MU exp is astounding.

That was in regards to Samus as a whole, not that particular MU. Samus can do horrible horrible things to Ganondorf because... well he's ganondorf.

Her spacing game is balls? Nah, it's constantly underestimated. She has a F-tilt that has MORE RANGE than Marth's that hits on frame 7.

When exactly do you see marth's using ftilt? It's a coverage move, it's pretty useless from the neutral state for pretty much the same reason samus' ftilt isn't a good spacer, it's unsafe as hell.

Her Jab isn't a bad move, just it's growth based and works at mid to high percents.

And?

Her projectiles should rarely hit you, but they're low lag, meaning it's not like it's simple to punish her even if you powershield missiles and charge shot consistently.

Charge shot is rather laggy. Missles can be beating with priority.

Her Z-air however is SUPER gay to avoid because it's a frame 9 move that outranges everything can be used out of airdodge.

Uh, frame 9 is at the earliest possible hitbox, which is basically right at her gun, it takes a while to fully extend to the point where it legitimately beats other moves. It's effectively quite slow, which means it's spacer.

Pressuring her is obnoxiously difficult not just because of Z-air, but also since Bombs are basically mini-grenades that let her stall in the air.

They do have interesting properties, but it's not sufficient I'm afraid.

Horrible traps? Her F-air and Dash attack are GOOD trap setups, and she has solid edgeguard options due to her excellent recovery and projectile options.

I think you misunderstand, against proper play she doesn't really have good follow-ups from anything.

Also, try SDI'ing fair, I don't see any good traps off that any time soon.

Her D-air is also super safe on block and is a pretty **** setup or combo starter that has what seems to be infinite priority.

And it takes long enough to come out that you should be powershielding it reliably. I dunno the exact frame data (since samus frame data thread is frustratingly incomplete...) but I know I powershield it on reaction.

Yeah she can't kill you early in any real way besides random gimps. She can however KO you fairly easily when you reach an appropriate KO percent. U-tilt anti-airs the **** out of stuff and is a virtually safe move that has like the range of Snake's U-tilt.

And is frame 16...

D-tilt is 6 frames and can be comboed into.

Dtilt is cool, but it's also your only spacing move.

Charge shot is pretty easy to land for edgeguards. F-smash isn't neccessarily horrible once you realize it's a frame 10 move that can be angled and has good leanback.

And it's range is crap.

And lol at her moves to stop edgeguarders being horrible. You might as well say that everyone not named Metaknight is horrible at safely spacing while recovering, but Samus is better than that by being able to stall. Aside from that, F-air is a very disjointed move that comes out fast. She has projectiles and airdodge -> Z-air. Ganon can't do **** to Samus anyway when she recovers low. She'll survive U-air spikes most of the time which really aren't safe against her anyway.

Combination lack of coverage, lack of speed, long commitment.

I really don't see how this character is terrible when she survives forever, can do a lot of super safe damage and combo efficiently, is VERY difficult to pressure, and has good edgeguarding. She's certainly not amazing, but she has too many options to be horrible.

Except she can't do any of the above except survive forever.

My friend plays a very good Samus, and after playing him so much in this matchup, I really think Samus is more a very technical character rather than horrible. Her lack of a solid shieldgrab and low KO power are more "annoying" than actually crippling for this character.

Your personal experience =/= indicative of high level play.

This character is really really good at doing things that are stupidly safe that will eventually pick your defenses apart, and while her camping isn't amazing, camping her back isn't exactly a very good option most of the time, so most characters are forced to approach her.

What does she have that's stupidly safe on block?

You never have to approach a samus.

 

[Clai]

Lol, I love how people decide to establish the "top of the metagame's" reaction time. Arguing solely with numbers that are inherently flawed. (I wasn't directing this particularly at you Clai, or any one person, just so nobody get's the wrong idea.) There are many factors that go into human reaction time, that to say that a top player will have the ability to react to a 8 frame move is ridiculous. People throw around data and show the results of "reaction tests" like it's undeniable science. Truth is, reaction tests themselves don't actually mimic the behavior in a situation like this. A light turns green, and you click. But you never factor in that you're anticipating something to happen already. Nothing else can happen but the light turning green. There's only one response you have to worry about. A more accurate (though not completely accurate) test would be something that was going to turn either green or red. If it turns green, you click. If it turns red, you hit the spacebar. I know that no one gave out a reaction time test link, but I'm trying to explain that people are incredibly simplifying numbers that are very vague in real life, and then trying to pass them off as numbers that prove that you're right. No one realizes how much anticipation actually factors into what you can "react" to.

It's isolated numbers V.S. experience. I can theoretically react to 8 frame moves, but I know that there's no chance in hell I will unless my anticipation of a certain move pays off.

It isn't hard to prepare for powershielding frame 8 moves the same way you prepare for changing light tests. Have another player use a character and have that character stand next to your character. Let the opposing character use said 8-frame move at random intervals and try to powershield it by nothing but reaction time. The player has to watch for some kind of tick that alerts him that the move is being used, but once he finds that tick, he'll be able to react to it and shield the move reliably. Granted, the tick for a move like Ganon's Dtilt will be easier to find than Ganon's Ftilt because it's easier to see Ganon moving down than to see Ganon's leg moving, but if it's possible, we have to assume it can be done reliably.

The system that determines how to measure reaction time may not be perfect, but we have to follow whatever hard data we can find. When it comes to match-ups, the difference between being able to powershield a move on reaction and having to anticipate the move is huge. We have to establish a benchmark at some frame number so that we can make accurate match-up discussions.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It isn't hard to prepare for powershielding frame 8 moves the same way you prepare for changing light tests. Have another player use a character and have that character stand next to your character. Let the opposing character use said 8-frame move at random intervals and try to powershield it by nothing but reaction time. The player has to watch for some kind of tick that alerts him that the move is being used, but once he finds that tick, he'll be able to react to it and shield the move reliably. Granted, the tick for a move like Ganon's Dtilt will be easier to find than Ganon's Ftilt because it's easier to see Ganon moving down than to see Ganon's leg moving, but if it's possible, we have to assume it can be done reliably.

The system that determines how to measure reaction time may not be perfect, but we have to follow whatever hard data we can find. When it comes to match-ups, the difference between being able to powershield a move on reaction and having to anticipate the move is huge. We have to establish a benchmark at some frame number so that we can make accurate match-up discussions.

Frame 9 moves, you see smash requires a frame 0 where the input occurs (even doing exactly at the change-over still results in next frame being frame 0, and the frame after that being frame 1).

Buffering is the only case where this is ignored.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When exactly do you see marth's using ftilt? It's a coverage move, it's pretty useless from the neutral state for pretty much the same reason samus' ftilt isn't a good spacer, it's unsafe as hell.

Marth's F-tilt was used as a comparison due to the massive range it has (it's virtually safe when tippered). Samus's F-tilt like DK's F-tilt is a virtually safe move due to the massive range.

And?

Samus's Jab is a fast move with good range that is VERY good at getting you off her face if you know that it just needs to be avoided at low percents.

Charge shot is rather laggy. Missles can be beating with priority.

Charge shot is not laggy lmao. Beating missiles with priority is very unsafe and can leave you in a position to be Z-aired or grabbed.

Uh, frame 9 is at the earliest possible hitbox, which is basically right at her gun, it takes a while to fully extend to the point where it legitimately beats other moves. It's effectively quite slow, which means it's spacer.

Either way, Z-air is extremely difficult to observe and you can't powershield it on reaction. The animation on the move is not telegraphed enough for a player to react to it at long range.

They do have interesting properties, but it's not sufficient I'm afraid.

I think you're really underestimating Bombs. When she lays a bomb, it becomes UNFAVORABLE to approach and pressure her. If it explodes in your face, she probably gets a combo, and it essentially forces you to move away or shield if you're in close range but are not able to punish her.

I think you misunderstand, against proper play she doesn't really have good follow-ups from anything.

Also, try SDI'ing fair, I don't see any good traps off that any time soon.

SDIing it is good, but really hard on stage if she deliberately hits you with it late. And it's safe on block.

Dash attack is a VERY good combo starter that is hard to punish on reaction and sets up into almost anything.

And it takes long enough to come out that you should be powershielding it reliably. I dunno the exact frame data (since samus frame data thread is frustratingly incomplete...) but I know I powershield it on reaction.

The move alone is in fact powershieldable on reaction, but a good Samus forces you to be inherently defensive with Bombs/Z-air, and if she calls a dodge or commitment to most ground moves, ****.

And is frame 16...

But you anti-air with it, and besides that, it's a virtually safe move.

Combination lack of coverage, lack of speed, long commitment.

Samus is quite agile in the air, and her aerials don't have much ending lag, and a few of them have pretty gdlk priority. She has projectiles as well.

Except she can't do any of the above except survive forever.

Except Samus has several virtually safe moves that hit before reaction time, quite a few ways to force defensive reactions and ways to follow up on them.

Your personal experience =/= indicative of high level play.

True enough, but regardless I powershield Samus's projectiles very consistently, and I consider myself an EXTREMELY patient player when I'm playing my best. Oh she would be crap, except there is literally no safe way to react to her Z-air, which is so godly that it forces you to approach.

What does she have that's stupidly safe on block?

spaced F-tilt, U-tilt, D-air, Z-air, Missile cancel, F-air, U-air, Bombs, Samus has a LOT of stuff that is very good against defending opponents. Since you have to be on the defensive to get past Samus's camping in the first place, this allows her to get grabs rather reliably.

You never have to approach a samus.

Statment would be true if she didn't have Z-air, but she does, so you have to approach her in most matchups since it WILL hit you due to the limits of reaction time. The only way you can powershield this move is by predicting precisely when she will use it, which is no simple task, and pretty much you're ****ed when you are in the air and the Samus is any good. Yeah if in theory you could powershield all her camping moves, she wouldn't be a threat, but you can't.

 

[Swoops]

It isn't hard to prepare for powershielding frame 8 moves the same way you prepare for changing light tests. Have another player use a character and have that character stand next to your character. Let the opposing character use said 8-frame move at random intervals and try to powershield it by nothing but reaction time. The player has to watch for some kind of tick that alerts him that the move is being used, but once he finds that tick, he'll be able to react to it and shield the move reliably. Granted, the tick for a move like Ganon's Dtilt will be easier to find than Ganon's Ftilt because it's easier to see Ganon moving down than to see Ganon's leg moving, but if it's possible, we have to assume it can be done reliably.

The system that determines how to measure reaction time may not be perfect, but we have to follow whatever hard data we can find. When it comes to match-ups, the difference between being able to powershield a move on reaction and having to anticipate the move is huge. We have to establish a benchmark at some frame number so that we can make accurate match-up discussions.

That's the thing, in that experiment you're still anticipating that single move. It's an isolated experiment where the other player won't be doing anything else. You don't have to worry about a single thing except for the point where you simply have to hit the shield button.

I understand that you want whatever hard data you can get to discuss the match ups. But you shouldn't be using data that is very imperfect and subject to so many variables. Don't use data for the sake of it being data. You're setting a benchmark that is frankly, completely unrealistic.

Instead of using numbers based on highly suggestive tests, use actual match videos of competent play that actually proves that certain moves are as easy to react to or powershield as you say they are.

For the sake of actually keeping this a social thread. That beard was glooooorious!

 

[Noobicidal]

That beard was glooooorious!

It really was a glorious beard.

 

[PhantomX]

A2ZOMG with the slam dunk!!

Seriously guys, Ganon can't gimp her. I tried. If they are good and play well enough the opportunity shouldn't arise, and if it does be wary--I've gotten gimped this way a lot.

I will repeat again... it wasn't any random-*** Samus I gimped, it was Xyro, arguably the best Samus there is.

She can't afford to just randomly Zair after airdodges if you're near the ledge and edgeguarding with upairs b/c if you hit her out of her Zair/pulling in animation she's guaranteed death. Nair's sex kick properties can also hit her out of zair.

Honestly what I just did was wait for him to get to about stage level from fairly far away, and then wizkick out to where he was (so I still had my jump), and then go to work, while making sure not to let him get above me.

Like, I'm skeptical of Breezy's success because the ICs have a move that Ganondorf can literally do nothing about, but it's not like Samus has some sort of godly recovery to make gimping her implausible.

Again though, I know you guys are just going to ignore anything I have to say and continue bickering on your high horses, so carry on.

 

[DLA]

I find Samus easy to gimp. I fought Sago (best Samus in the midwest) last night and I gimped him 2-3 times (and won the set, might I add). I gimp most other Samuses (Sami?) multiple times per set too.

Anyways, I didn't read most of the argument, it was a major TL;DR, but I can say that I don't have too much of an issue with Samus offline because I'm so good at powershielding.

BTW, I got 17th out of 66 in ASC, using only Ganon in brackets (a bit of MK and Falco in pools). I JUST about beat Ally's CF in pools... I took the first game off, and I was up about 80% on the last stock second game, but he went all Ally on me and came back and edgehogged me or some ****. Then I barely lost 3rd game too.

I had to fight Coney first round in winners; DDD vs Ganon is so stupid lol. I'm probably just going to go Falco against the rest of the DDDs I fight.

Then I beat Loki in losers and I had to fight Logic. I got him to his last stock both games, and I gimped him a few times in the process. The Olimar vs Ganon matchup is also very very stupid lol.

Later I $MMed Boss's Mario... I took him to the third game and barely lost. I need more Mario exp.

I also played a bunch of friendlies against Chu Dat... I beat him like 4-5 games in a row at the beginning, but then he realized how gay the kirby vs Ganon matchup is and he beat me most of the games after that lol.

Anyways, I kinda got bracket-****ed, and though I got wrecked pretty hard by EC, I feel I left a good impression.

 

[Swoops]

Again though, I know you guys are just going to ignore anything I have to say and continue bickering on your high horses, so carry on.

Oh, that happens to you too? Huh...

Anyways, I say that all the G-dorfs must grow their beards out en masse! Then we must get together for a group picture of some sort. This will send fear striking through the hearts of the entire boards!

 

[Noobicidal]

I can't grow a beard for the life of me.

 

[DoonKoon]

thats cause your gay

 

[Noobicidal]

thats cause your gay

While true, your premise is flawed.

He's gay, and he has a rather lush beard.

 

[Breezy]

Like, I'm skeptical of Breezy's success because the ICs have a move that Ganondorf can literally do nothing about, but it's not like Samus has some sort of godly recovery to make gimping her implausible.

When they start walling blizzard you just taunt and bait 'em to rush in.

Punish with a FoG -> WP

 

[DoonKoon]

wow, ur really gay? o_0 how does it feel to be gay?

 

[B!squick]

wow, ur really gay? o_0 how does it feel to be gay?

.... You can't be that stupid.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I will repeat again... it wasn't any random-*** Samus I gimped, it was Xyro, arguably the best Samus there is.

She can't afford to just randomly Zair after airdodges if you're near the ledge and edgeguarding with upairs b/c if you hit her out of her Zair/pulling in animation she's guaranteed death. Nair's sex kick properties can also hit her out of zair.

Honestly what I just did was wait for him to get to about stage level from fairly far away, and then wizkick out to where he was (so I still had my jump), and then go to work, while making sure not to let him get above me.

Like, I'm skeptical of Breezy's success because the ICs have a move that Ganondorf can literally do nothing about, but it's not like Samus has some sort of godly recovery to make gimping her implausible.

Again though, I know you guys are just going to ignore anything I have to say and continue bickering on your high horses, so carry on.

Usually when I edgeguard Samus with U-airs...they survive the gimp anyway, and then you get Up-Bed and put in a pretty lousy position.

 

[*JuriHan*]

 

[Bahamut777]

I'll try moving to USA next year with an interchange program... maybe I can get to met you guys.

 

[Xyro77]

lol why is this samus gimp thing an issue? i made a mistake and got gimped.....so what? I still beat px. i still beat ganon. samus beats ganon. lol what more is there to say?

 

[Divilenta]

GUYS, guys... comment on how much more awesome my beard is than Ganondorf's.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc256/JayDeth1/P2160019.jpg

That is an amazing beard.

Shame that I can't grow a beard as of yet...only a few stray hairs here and there that pop out and annoy me to no end.

 

[adumbrodeus]

lol why is this samus gimp thing an issue? i made a mistake and got gimped.....so what? I still beat px. i still beat ganon. samus beats ganon. lol what more is there to say?

Cause some people are intent on proving it's a 100-0 MU obviously.


Ganon boards occassionally go through phases of "Ganon sucks even worse then smashboards in general thinks".



*will respond to other post when I get a chance.

 

[PhantomX]

I think by Ganon you mean Ray Kalm and occasional random supporters.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Cause some people are intent on proving it's a 100-0 MU obviously.


Ganon boards occassionally go through phases of "Ganon sucks even worse then smashboards in general thinks".



*will respond to other post when I get a chance.

Duh, all of Ganon's MUs are 100-0. Gosh. You'd think you own to place coming in here all un-panted optimistic.

Spoiler

/sarcasm

 

[Noobicidal]

Duh, all of Ganon's MUs are 100-0. Gosh. You'd think you own to place coming in here all un-panted optimistic.

Spoiler

/sarcasm

Sarcasm aside, what the **** did I just read?

 

[Ganonsburg]

The un-panted part was a reference to Strong Bad and Homestar Runner. The 100-0 was referring to the Ganon board's negativity that The Big A (too lazy to type your name, sorry) was mentioning. I'm not sure if there's much more to explain, haha.

Adumbrodeus (and I type your name here, lol), I have a ton of respect for you, so I hope you don't take that the wrong way.

 

[DLA]

Maybe I should just stop posting about the big tournaments I do well at with Ganon if everyone's just going to ignore it. Keep bickering about whether or not it's mathematically possible to gimp Samus, or whatever pointless thing it was.

If no one actually cares then I'll stop boring you.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If you do that I will find you... and when I do... I'll... FORCE YOU TO POST THOSE TOURNAMENT RESULTS!!!! Mwahahaha!


No seriously, how'd you do DLA?

The un-panted part was a reference to Strong Bad and Homestar Runner. The 100-0 was referring to the Ganon board's negativity that The Big A (too lazy to type your name, sorry) was mentioning. I'm not sure if there's much more to explain, haha.

Adumbrodeus (and I type your name here, lol), I have a ton of respect for you, so I hope you don't take that the wrong way.

Well, honestly we're a reasonably productive board usually, we have our bouts but for the most part I'd peg the Zelda boards as most negative.

I think by Ganon you mean Ray Kalm and occasional random supporters.

No comment





Yes, I remember that post, no long posts till I get home and my internet is stable.

 

[Noobicidal]

Well, honestly we're a reasonably productive board usually, we have our bouts but for the most part I'd peg the Zelda boards as most negative.

I see that someone hasn't visited the Puff board in the last year or so.

 

[DLA]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9627287&postcount=2457... posted it a few pages back.

I don't really care if you guys want to know how I did... I guess it would just be nice to know that I'm giving fellow Ganon mainers a glimmer of hope lol.

 

[PhantomX]

I read how you did, and it's neat, I just didn't comment on it

Mario is a troublesome character for me as well. IMO the hardest low tier matchup for us.

 

[fromundaman]

DLA, I just didn't have much to say, since I don't really know how Western MW plays. Good **** vs all the big named players though.

Also, Mario is kind of tough for Ganon, but doable. (By which I mean Fonz wrecks me XD)
You just have to keep him out, because once he gets in, he's doing a lot of damage. Also, be careful recovering, because he's got some nasty gimping tools.