Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[T.testLP]

You should learn buffering first, its fundamental in Brawl and its quite easy to master.

Probably nobody has completely perfected it, but as far as I know, Verm is very good at it. Most of the time you're better off doing a normal followup.

 

[-LzR-]

Tsticking is useless for ftilting. It's good for nonfastfall dair.

Buffering ftilt is simple. During the buffer window, press forward, let the stick back to neutral and press A. You do a ftilt.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks.

Does the same method work for iDA?

 

[Exalted]

Pretty much, only you smash the C-stick either down or up.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks.

I'm having trouble dealing with a Tink I play regularly (it's wifi but our connection is pretty good, good enough that powershielding isn't really affected to the best of my knowledge).

His horizontal camping completely destroys me. Between his SH double arrows and bomb throws (he does down angled boomerangs too, but they're not really the problem) I can't seem to appraoch at all. I tried powershielding, but even if I PS'd every projectile, they come at such a rate that I can't really move forward before I have to PS the next one. I tried iDAing, but the next projectile intercepts it in its start up before it gets its priority. I tried SH ADing, but even if I avoid a few projectiles, he frame traps my landing by punishing it with a nair, then he resets his camping, Even sometimes when I PS, he'll punish me by nairing me right after I PSd.

If I manage to get inside, I nomally do pretty ok, except that I can't SDI his bair chains. I could really appreciate some advice on how to approach Tink and deal with his projectiles.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Exalted]

Ganon should never approach. Try to find a way to bait him into approaching you. Standing still and PSing everything might get him mad enough to charge at you

 

[Dre89]

He's smarter than that though. He'll just keep camping because eventually I'll screw up my powershielding, and he has no need to approach if he's in the lead.

So how do you guys approach in this case?

 

[T.testLP]

Ganondorf has really poor approach options. Try to get the lead before he does and keep practising powershielding. Ganondorf just does very bad against projectile campers.

Also, I seem to have trouble with MK's jab. It can be SDI'd out of, but it can rack some damage before you're able to do it, and Ganondorf doesn't have anything to punish it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thanks.

I'm having trouble dealing with a Tink I play regularly (it's wifi but our connection is pretty good, good enough that powershielding isn't really affected to the best of my knowledge).

His horizontal camping completely destroys me. Between his SH double arrows and bomb throws (he does down angled boomerangs too, but they're not really the problem) I can't seem to appraoch at all. I tried powershielding, but even if I PS'd every projectile, they come at such a rate that I can't really move forward before I have to PS the next one. I tried iDAing, but the next projectile intercepts it in its start up before it gets its priority. I tried SH ADing, but even if I avoid a few projectiles, he frame traps my landing by punishing it with a nair, then he resets his camping, Even sometimes when I PS, he'll punish me by nairing me right after I PSd.

If I manage to get inside, I nomally do pretty ok, except that I can't SDI his bair chains. I could really appreciate some advice on how to approach Tink and deal with his projectiles.

Thanks in advance.

If you're letting your approaches get interrupted by projectiles/Z-air or whatever he does to frametrap your powershield, you simply need to be more patient and look for different windows.

Bombs are EASY to deal with. Catch them. He also has to change what he's doing if you throw them back.

Also if you shield his N-air, depending on how it's spaced, try U-air out of shield.

Ganondorf has really poor approach options. Try to get the lead before he does and keep practising powershielding. Ganondorf just does very bad against projectile campers.

Also, I seem to have trouble with MK's jab. It can be SDI'd out of, but it can rack some damage before you're able to do it, and Ganondorf doesn't have anything to punish it.

D-tilt him.

 

[Z1GMA]

Rob's greatest weakness?

 

[smashkng]

Rob's greatest weakness?

It helps a lot him being so large, and his rolls aren't the best (and we have a lot of true combos out of it: jab, Ftilt, IDA and Dtilt). And remember that Lasers must wait like 3 seconds before he can use them again. His recovery is very abusable at times as well and he is pretty easy to juggle. Still a very hard MU though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB's greatest weakness is his ledge game is TERRIBLE.

ROB has the worst overall ledge options in the game. Just everything he does to get up loses to shield, and he doesn't ledgestall very well. Hurting him even more is that all of his ledge options are easy to recognize on reaction, and his ledgeroll gets CRAP distance.

Only Bowser and DK at 100% and above do worse than ROB on the ledge.

 

[dedepouilleur]

After search on the topic about techs of ganon, I don't find something! (if it exists, I'm sorry beacause I did not understand all).
"Something" is here an AT (or not, it is my question) :
to use flame chock on the ground near to a side to edgehop. It works easily : Side-B and during the animation slow down pushing the stick in the opposite direction.

This tech is known for many time (Ijosh used it in 2008) but I would want to know if this is an AT or not.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Exalted]

I'm not sure I understand your ridiculous grammar.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I'm not sure I understand your ridiculous grammar.

Hey, he is from France. Of course, that grammar is absolutely horrendous.

 

[dedepouilleur]

I'm sorry, I know I suck in English é_è (though I don't use google translate!)
So, I give you a video which illustrate my sentences :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0DBQDUABs
at 2:33

Tkanks you to reply.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Ah. I get what he's asking. He's basically asking if edge-hogging with flame choke is an AT. ie, you're on the ground, and you flame choke off the edge. When you fly off the edge, you push the control stick toward the stage to have Ganon grab the edge.

I'm not sure if you'd call it an AT, or whether it's simply something to know. I don't like to use it because if I screw up or the opponent gets there first, I'm falling to my death and can't do anything about it. A better technique is to use wizkick (down + b) so that it cancels off the edge (called wizkick cancel, or WKC), and then tilt the stick toward the stage. I'll try to find a video in which this is done.

Edit: Here at 1:13 is an example of WKC. You have to start a certain distance away from the ledge, and when you go over the ledge the ending lag of WK is canceled and you can do whatever you want out of it. In this case, Fonz chose to U-Air, but you can just as easily press back to grab the edge.

Edit edit: In that same video, the next clip does WKC again, if you need another example. At 1:20.

 

[dedepouilleur]

Ok, thank you very much for your answer!
Except that, I kwow the WFC, it is my favourite AT and I used in my CV ^^ (to grab the ledge notably).

Thank you again.

 

[Ganonsburg]

No problem! My apologies if I insulted your intelligence.

 

[-LzR-]

None of Rob's weaknesses are abusable by Ganon lol.

 

[Z1GMA]

None of Rob's weaknesses are abusable by Ganon lol.

Don't make me us laugh.

One Gerudo on ROB often leads to sick damage.

 

[smashkng]

Lol there are tons of weaknesses for Ganon to abuse on ROB, large size (allowing us to hit him with a SH Uair on the ground and also Bairs), all the true Gerudo set-ups combined with short rolls for easy tech-chases and ability to juggle him easily because of his size. Yes his size makes him abusable in many things. Non of these prevents him from beating us hard though, because the problem is setting up them.

 

[A2ZOMG]

None of Rob's weaknesses are abusable by Ganon lol.

Actually all of ROB's weaknesses are totally abusable by Ganon.

ROB is certainly easy to juggle, extremely susceptible to Flame Choke combos, can be edgeguarded and edgetrapped for massive reward. His bad shield and tall frame is something Ganon VERY much appreciates as well when Ganon is approaching from the air (N-air/F-air -> shieldpoke? Perfectly spaced autocanceled B-airs which can be safe on block?)

What is true about the ROB matchup though is his neutral options CRUSH Ganon's.

 

[Judo777]

Hey Ganons is there anyway you guys could sticky a thread with all of Ganons followup from flame choke. Like an entire thread devoted to it because the only thing i ever come to these boards is to look those up and i always have to thumb through the guide. Just thought it would be convenient.

 

[Exalted]

Depends on if anyone has the energy to do so.
I'm busy with something else that's related to followups atm.

 

[Eskay]

Hi, I'm new around here *IGNORE THE JOIN DATE LISTED, I HADN'T BEEN ACTIVATED UNTIL JUST A LITTLE BIT AGO* and I was wondering... What is tipman?

 

[Noobicidal]

"Tipman" refers to hitting the opponent with the weaker part of Uair. It can be used as an edgeguarding tool, or a setup for a "Bouncing" combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwj8O3i8EdA

 

[IYM!]

hey Ganon boards, remember me?, maybe not, XP


any way, i was starting to play melee, and use my second favorite character in that game, Ganondorf, but i lend my gamecube to one of my friend for one week, so i started to play brawl again to kill the time, and i was playing with Ganondorf.

Is sadly how sakurai nerfed him, but he still being a strong character, and i want imrpove with him. that is why i need your help.


my questions are:

1)How i can do the "storming"? if i spelled it wrong, i am refering to the act to cancel the ending lag of the Dair when it touch the ground

2)What is the best form to use the flame shock? His follow ups, and anothers tthings than i can do with that move?

3)Wich are his Better,safest and most efective moves?


that is all murders board, thanks in advance

 

[Vermanubis]

hey Ganon boards, remember me?, maybe not, XP


any way, i was starting to play melee, and use my second favorite character in that game, Ganondorf, but i lend my gamecube to one of my friend for one week, so i started to play brawl again to kill the time, and i was playing with Ganondorf.

Is sadly how sakurai nerfed him, but he still being a strong character, and i want imrpove with him. that is why i need your help.

It's a shame. As fun a character as Ganon is (there is NOTHING like taking a full stock off of someone from just a few reads; SO satisfying), he is badly under-represented.

1)How i can do the "storming"? if i spelled it wrong, i am refering to the act to cancel the ending lag of the Dair when it touch the ground

You got it. Thunderstorming. You can perform Thunderstorming by performing a short-hop and immediately as you press the jump button, use DAir. It's typically done in a sliding motion, sliding from the jump button to the DAir command in one smooth action.

2)What is the best form to use the flame shock? His follow ups, and anothers tthings than i can do with that move?

There's no best way to use the Gerudo Choke (Flame Choke). It's all preference. As for his follow-ups, go here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5216073&postcount=2

That post shows how many frames it takes for Ganon's moves to come out. It also shows the characters under the "Frame Advantage" section's get-up frames. This is a reliable way to see what his follow-ups are for each character. Say for instance, you want to know if FTilt will work on Mr. Game & Watch after a Gerudo Choke. Just look at what it says for Mr. Game & Watch's frames; he gets up on frame 11. FTilt happens on frame 10, making it possible to use FTilt on Mr. Game & Watch after a Gerudo Choke. Though it is rare, sometimes that won't be a foolproof method, as some characters, such as Lucario, get up after Ganondorf's Jab (Lucario gets up on frame 9; Jab is frame 8) but their hitbox is too low to be hit by the move.

3)Wich are his Better,safest and most efective moves?

It all depends on who you're fighting. Typically, moves like DAir, UAir and DTilt are considered safe and highly effective, but if used right, moves like NAir, BAir and Wizkick can be extremely effective. I personally pride myself on my NAirs and Wizkicks.

 

[IYM!]

thanks for the help Vermanubis


last question (i forgot make this question in my previous post)

The Air Wizard Kick have two diferent angles, one of those is a meteor, and the another send our oponent to the sky

With which part of the foot i have to kick my opponent to send it down?

some times i want kill him with the upward angle, but my opponent go to the ground , and viceversa :/

 

[Vermanubis]

thanks for the help Vermanubis


last question (i forgot make this question in my previous post)

The Air Wizard Kick have two diferent angles, one of those is a meteor, and the another send our oponent to the sky

With which part of the foot i have to kick my opponent to send it down?

some times i want kill him with the upward angle, but my opponent go to the ground , and viceversa :/

No problem!

Also, Wizkick has two hitboxes, yes. The meteor hitbox comes out right as the move starts. The skyward hitbox comes out a short while after you use aerial Wizkick.

 

[IYM!]

, i didnt know that, so the meteor hit come out inmidiatly when you press down B, and the upward angle comes a little after. got it


thanks, now i am gonna kill people like Ganon does XD

 

[Moblin]

I couldn't find any tips against Falco in the matchup thread and I always have a really hard time against him.


Specifically, what do good ganons (you guys) do when the falco is rather mindlessly spamming lasers and Side B-ing through you?



My guess would be dealing with the lasers until he feels the need to Side B through you, and then punish it somehow. What move would be good for this? And would I need to predict the side B or do we have something fast enough to throw it out on reaction?


During my matches I tried a few different moves with varying timings, but it was very difficult. There was one time where I stomped him out of Side B and looked like a total badass, but I couldn't do it again.

 

[Exalted]

Falco's just an ***.
Top Falcos will wreck us and all we can do is wait for better times.

 

[the king of murder]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11175266&postcount=100

There are some really good advise of how to deal with Falco.

 

[Moblin]

Thanks a ton. It looks like the matchup against a mediocre falco vs. Ganondorf will revolve around trying to stuff the falco's Side B and camping game. Thank you.


@Exalted: lol, and better times would be the next smash game prolly. Regardless, I know that top falcos will definitely kick my ***. But I'm having trouble with medicore ones, so these tips will come in handy.

 

[Exalted]

I played this guy a few days ago and all he ever did was playing with characters who CG alot, including that ****ing space furry Falco. God did I get annoyed after a few games.

 

[Moblin]

It's even more annoying when they don't even otherwise play Falco, but they pick it against me and beat me because my Ganon sucks >.>


Maining ganon is a good lesson in dealing with Stress.

 

[Forever Forgotten]

Occasionally, a D-Tilt doesn't work after a Flame Choke. Is there a reason for this?

 

[Vermanubis]

You buffered it too late. DTilt also doesn't work against some characters, as they have a minor frame advantage on his DTilt. You only have a 4-frame window to buffer the dtilt, so the timing is extremely tricky, and missing a buffer is pretty common.