Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[Z1GMA]

The Kill% of our Jab is very situation-dependant.

A fresh jab can kill from 120% ~ 200% depending on the opponent's DI.
Sure, the same can be said about pretty much all attacks in the game,
but I brought it up with our Jab here 'cause our Jab can take advantage of (or create) bad DI better than the jab of any other character.
(This is btw the ONLY thing with Ganon's Jab that is better than others' jabs.)

It's impossible to die from Ike's/Snake's Jabs, 'cause it takes hours for the 3rd one to come out.
Ganon's however, can catch you off guard (when you're not DIing).

But then again, Ganon HAS no jab... Frame 8 isn't very jabish -_-

And by "create bad DI", I mean after you land a Gerudo on them by the ledge.
If they try to roll backwards, they'll DI your garantueed jab and die at like 120%.

Same thing when ppl are using an input which contains a downward-command:
Dsmashes, Dtilts, Down+b's.

Again, the same can be said for pretty much all attacks in the game.
I just wanted to mention something good about Ganon's Jab, for once.

 

[Sovereign]

WHERE IS PHANTOM X?!

I actually paid attention to Verm being the Ganon Boards mod, and it dawned on me that PX was no longer around.

What happened to'em?

 

[Tonsana]

Ignore.......

 

[Tonsana]

The Kill% of our Jab is very situation-dependant.

A fresh jab can kill from 120% ~ 200% depending on the opponent's DI.
Sure, the same can be said about pretty much all attacks in the game,
but I brought it up with our Jab here 'cause our Jab can take advantage of (or create) bad DI better than the jab of any other character.
(This is btw the ONLY thing with Ganon's Jab that is better than others' jabs.)

It's impossible to die from Ike's/Snake's Jabs, 'cause it takes hours for the 3rd one to come out.
Ganon's however, can catch you of guard (when you're not DIing).

But then again, Ganon HAS no jab... Frame 8 isn't very jabish -_-

And by "create bad DI", I mean after you land a Gerudo on them by the ledge.
If they try to roll backwards, they'll DI your garantueed jab and die at like 120%.

Same thing when ppl are using an input which contains a downward-command:
Dsmashes, Dtilts, Down+b's.

Again, the same can be said for pretty much all attacks in the game.
I just wanted to mention something good about Ganon's Jab, for once.

Z1gma speaks the truth. I like doing this with throws with charachters that have good forward and backtrows. Like Olimars blue pikmin or Lucario. If you are near the ledge and are holding them, throw inwards instead of backwards and they will DI themself to death ^^

 

[global-wolf]

What exactly is wrong with Ganondorf's fair? I keep hearing people say that the developers messed it up but I don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Bahamut777]

What exactly is wrong with Ganondorf's fair? I keep hearing people say that the developers messed it up but I don't know what they're talking about.

All Ganondorf's aerials have the Auto Cancel feature, except for the FAir.
It has the frames indicators that it should Auto Cancel at, but it don't by a very ridiculous coding error.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganon's F-air was INTENDED to autocancel on frame 35. Which is a pretty generous fullhop autocancel window. Keep in mind Ganon's airtime in a fullhop is 46 frames.

In order to understand how the coding error works, you need to understand the difference between an Asynchronous timer and a Synchronous timer.

An Asynchronous timer starts running from the beginning of a move animation until the specified number of frames. A Synchronous timer starts running after the last frame of the previous event in the programming of a move.

Ganon's F-air first hits on frame 14 and the hitbox is active until frame 20. Then there is a synchronous timer for 35 frames that designates the autocancel window (although the entire animation of Ganon's F-air I believe is only 54 frames). By coding Ganon's F-air this way, the programming says it actually autocancels on frame 55.

The other thing about Ganon's F-air is that it was supposed to be interruptible with other actions on frame 44. HOWEVER the late autocancel window caused by a synchronous timer takes priority over this interrupt window. Meaning that Ganon's F-air in Brawl pretty much is stuck with horrible ending lag to the end of the entire animation.

If you want to see how Ganon's F-air was meant to work, play Balanced Brawl. By simply changing the timer from synchronous to asynchronous, Ganon's F-air becomes both a better edgeguard tool (one that baits airdodges quite well) and a better anti-air option.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Ganon's F-air was INTENDED to autocancel on frame 35. Which is a pretty generous fullhop autocancel window. Keep in mind Ganon's airtime in a fullhop is 46 frames.

It makes it even worse that Ganon can begin to FF a full hop at 34 frames, and if I remember correctly lands on 44. Meaning that you could jump, initiate the Fair on Frame 9 (one frame after Ganon becomes airborne), begin the fast fall on frame 34 of your jump (only frame 26 of your Fair), and then actually Fall 9 frames with Fair still active (not the hitbox though) and then autocancelling with ZERO aerial landing lag on frame 44 when we hit the ground >.>

seriously guys, WE GOT *****

 

[AyatoK26]

This is another silly question

but when we do the ganon matchups, can we include experience based on wifi battles, seeing as there are lag issues present?

 

[Exalted]

This is another silly question

but when we do the ganon matchups, can we include experience based on wifi battles, seeing as there are lag issues present?

You mean so that we WiFi Warriors know what we'll do during online play?
I guess. You don't need anyone's permission to post that. Any and all input in the MU discussions are well appreciated.

 

[Bad!]

can ganon momentum cancel? if so what move? what throw is more useful?

 

[Dumbfire]

Uair is best MC.
Down Throw is most effective for onstage ehh follow ups.
Backthrow and Fthrow work for getting someone offstage to set up for a gimp..

 

[thexsunrosered]

can ganon momentum cancel? if so what move? what throw is more useful?

Bair also works too if you're more comfortable, though uair is better, not by much though

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

can ganon momentum cancel? if so what move? what throw is more useful?

Dair is the best move to momentum cancel with vertically.

Uair is the best horizontally.

 

[Z1GMA]

Dair is the best move to momentum cancel with vertically.

Interesting.
Can you explain as of why?

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Interesting.
Can you explain as of why?

Well, for some characters, certain moves momentum cancel better than their other moves. Like Snake, his uair helps him survive better vertically than his dair.

Ganon's Dair and Uair have equal strength is canceling knockback, so since Dair fastfalls instantaneously, it's better than uair for reliability.

 

[Z1GMA]

since Dair fastfalls instantaneously, it's better than uair for reliability.

If you hold down while Uair'ing(using C-stick up),
you FF instantaneously, just like if you would Dair(press C-stick down only)

What I found interesting was that you, too, feel Dair is better for vertical Momentum Cancel than Uair/Bair, even though it shouldn't be.

Feels like Dair has some property which teleports his body down slightly, doesn't it?

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

If you hold down while Uair'ing(using C-stick up),
you FF instantaneously, just like if you would Dair(press C-stick down only)

What I found interesting was that you, too, feel Dair is better for vertical Momentum Cancel than Uair/Bair, even though it shouldn't be.

Feels like Dair has some property which teleports his body down slightly, doesn't it?

I guess so, but using dair also feels more natural too.

Oh wow, I knew that fair moved characters slightly forward and same with bair for backwards, but does that also apply for dair?

 

[Z1GMA]

I guess so, but using dair also feels more natural too.
Yeah, I don't think it matters that much what move we use when we're struggling to survive a vertical KO.
I agree Dair feels the most natural, though.
Mebbe it really DOES move his frame down slightly, thus making us feel it's the natural choice of input, without us even thinking about it.

Uair/Bair should be the best ones if we wanna Down+b afterwards, though.

Oh wow, I knew that fair moved characters slightly forward and same with bair for backwards, but does that also apply for dair?
Not sure, but it does feel like it.

_________________

 

[T.testLP]

Is the chain jacket glitch that bad? Can't you just punish Sheik when she's aboutto perform it? Also the glitch can cause the game to freeze which isn't allowed in tournies right?

 

[Exalted]

Sheik's F-tilt will probably screw you up more.
Just watch out in case she's got a Chain Jacket.

 

[-LzR-]

I have never fully understood chain jacketing, is it banned or not?

 

[T.testLP]

This should answer your question. The glitch can cause game freezes so the player must be careful using it.

 

[Z1GMA]

What stage do you guys feel is the best one Vs ROB?
Motivate.

 

[Dre89]

Can someone clarify what exactly quaking is.

I'm not sure if it's when you actually jump in the air and see the wizkick animation, or when you WK during the earliest possible frame after you input the jump, where he doesn't leave the ground and just kinda knees the ground.

 

[-LzR-]

What stage do you guys feel is the best one Vs ROB?
Motivate.

Brinstar or Delfino. Rob is bad on those stages and Ganon is pretty good on them.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Can someone clarify what exactly quaking is.

I'm not sure if it's when you actually jump in the air and see the wizkick animation, or when you WK during the earliest possible frame after you input the jump, where he doesn't leave the ground and just kinda knees the ground.

The latter.

 

[Dre89]

K next question.

I was wondering how T sticking matches up against C sticking.

With T sticking you don't FF fair automatically, and it's supposedly easier to buffer tilts out of chokes. But of course, you lose salmon smashes. So I'm curious to know what has priority.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You don't lose Salmon smashes, they're just much, much harder to do.

I personally see no benefit to tilt stick, non-FF DAir is possible by soft-tilting the control stick for the input, and tilts are already really easy to buffer, it just takes a bit of practice.

 

[Judo777]

hey guys i was just playing some smash with lvl 9 ganon and he showed me something cool that im not sure is known.

First of all in an unrelated note i was screwing around on yoshis island and i remember hearing about this but i want to confirm it. Ganon can double jump off the ledge and flame choke onto the stage at least on yoshis. I did manage to do it once but its real hard.

Now the thing the lvl 9 showed me and almost killed me with. Ganon's fair actually can be autocanceled in the first few frames. Idk if this was known or not but its new to me. He dropped low began a fair so i went to hit him cause i knew he wouldnt get the move out and BAM i ate an fsmash. Its pretty easy to do too. If its not new sry thats why i came here but yea ganons fair can be auto canceled on the first few frames.

 

[Exalted]

It would seem possible to FC onto the stage on stages with tilted ledges. However, since YI and Lylat can mess up our Thunderstomp, it's not worth it.

I personally have known 'bout AC Fairs for long, but I dunno about the rest of us. It's pretty useless though, maybe it's only really practical use is to negate the slight lag Ganon suffers from upon landing.

 

[Dre89]

How do you stutter step fsmash with T sticking? And how do you avoid going random nairs with it?

T sticking seems appealing to me because it's easier to ftilt out of chokes, and easier to buffer tilts and pivot jabs out of airdodges and AC
aerials.

Does quaking have any application out of chokes? Thought it may clank with GUA after an aerial choke or something like that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Exalted]

How do you stutter step fsmash with T sticking? And how do you avoid going random nairs with it?
I'm pretty sure you have to input the Fsmash the regular way (left/right + A) to stutterstep it with a T-stick. The timing isn't that hard. Input left/right then immediately input the opposite direction + A.

T sticking seems appealing to me because it's easier to ftilt out of chokes, and easier to buffer tilts and pivot jabs out of airdodges and AC
aerials.
It's very easy to buffer Ftilt follow-ups by tilting the control-stick very slightly in the desired direction and pressing A. Once you get the timing down, you're set to go.

Does quaking have any application out of chokes? Thought it may clank with GUA after an aerial choke or something like that.
Quaking is next to useless, even as a Gerudo follow-up. Just don't use it. It has such a small hitbox it probably won't clank with anything. It has pitiful priority too.

Thanks in advance.

Hope that helped.

 

[Z1GMA]

Quake isn't too shabby when used as a granted Gerudo Follow-up on Falco.

 

[Exalted]

I guess not
It might lead to an Usmash at 0%.

 

[Z1GMA]

The Falco player can litterally take a nap and still have enough time to punish it at low %'s.

 

[Exalted]

Yeah. We just gotta hope that he's not very aware of the danger he's in.

 

[thexsunrosered]

wow, is it really zig?

 

[Z1GMA]

wow, is it really zig?

No, I was wrong.
Falco is a 9-framer.

I thought the Quake came out in frame 8, but it comes out in frame 10 ;{

 

[Dre89]

Sorry guys I've got a few more questions-

What are tipmans and flipmans? I know they're types of uairs, but I can't remember which is which.

What are the first tricks/ATs I should learn? I have a general idea about the spacing of each move, I can AC aerials and I already use uair and dair for MCing horizontal and vertical knockback respectively. I'm talking about things like buffering, WC cancelling, ledge options etc.. I'd like to know what is most important to learn, then what should come later.

Has anyone perfected chain choking? Or is at least still attempting to? It looks quite hard and I never see people talking about it.

Thanks in advance.