Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[cutter]

Even if you could grab release Wario you wouldn't get a free Usmash o him.

Usmash hits on frame 24 and you get a +20 frame advantage on an aerial grab release.

Plus it's not like G&W has an overwhelming grab range to begin with lol.

 

[Max Ketchum]

A2Z, you can't say that G&W is always gonna be perfectly spacing bairs on Snake's shield and that Snake is gonna misspace his ftilts on G&W's shield. That's just stupid, and it's a double standard. Snake is done with.

 

[Sky`]

Wow.
Marth Snake And diddy are really that bad...?

 

[Max Ketchum]

Snake and Marth are. I don't really think Diddy is that bad.

 

[slikvik]

I'd like to take this time to alert you people the that G&W has a pretty decent grab release on Wario.

It allows you to do any of your aerials u desire on him.

Furthermore this also gives you a free, yes free, upsmash on wario which could solve the "he's too hard to kill" problem with some of you.

Test it out for yourselves. I'll finish my post by saying that i have lots of wario experience and i think this matchup is 55:45 GaW

lol ignore list

 

[Sky`]

I'd like to take this time to alert you people the that G&W has a pretty decent grab release on Wario.

It allows you to do any of your aerials u desire on him.

Furthermore this also gives you a free, yes free, upsmash on wario which could solve the "he's too hard to kill" problem with some of you.

Test it out for yourselves. I'll finish my post by saying that i have lots of wario experience and i think this matchup is 55:45 GaW

You serious?

 

[OkinawaOldSchool]

I'd like to take this time to alert you people the that G&W has a pretty decent grab release on Wario.

It allows you to do any of your aerials u desire on him.

Furthermore this also gives you a free, yes free, upsmash on wario which could solve the "he's too hard to kill" problem with some of you.

Test it out for yourselves. I'll finish my post by saying that i have lots of wario experience and i think this matchup is 55:45 GaW

Lolwut?
GaW cannot grab release Wario unless it's on the edge~

 

[PhantomX]

Hylian and I will be playing this weekend. I'll try to convince him to record some matches so they can be tied in with the character discussion. I've always thought that would be a neat idea, but I don't really see it implemented anywhere.

Rolf at GW grab release.

 

[K@0S]

Fsmash works on air release.

 

[_Phloat_]

Phantom, who is Rolf?

 

[Gates]

Phantom, who is Rolf?

This guy.

 

[PhantomX]

Gates understands ^_^ The face Rolf makes is the one I make when people that can't grab release Wario talk about being able to.

 

[omegablackmage]

they have to push a jump button to get air released right and we have to be not hitting the wario i think (grab hit)

 

[LouBega]

GOOD warios always try to air release, right???

fixed it for you phantom.

 

[PhantomX]

If the Wario hits anything other than down on either the C-stick or Control Stick and you have jabbed at all, he will air break, even on small characters. The only problem with slow jabs such as the ones on GW is that if he mashes out during it at all, he will ground break. Better Warios know not to mash incorrectly, so you should never get an air break unless for whatever reason you've managed to get them in a dangling position (it will be more likely this is so b/c of slanting areas such as Lylat or YI platform).

LouBega... HELL NO! That's the worst thing a Wario could do EVER, lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Wario, it's a close matchup, G&W has the edge just cause he has more range, better recovery (which means better counterpicks too), and slightly safer KO moves. I'd agree with 55/45.

 

[VaJaJ]

Hi im new here.

um I think G&W has the advantage because his aerials go through wario's aerials, that is all.

55:45 GaW

 

[PhantomX]

Oh, just in case you guys DIDN'T know, Wario can actually airdodge ENTIRELY through your bair and nair. It's kind of amazing if you think about it.

 

[Max Ketchum]

GOOD warios always try to air release, right???

fixed it for you phantom.

No. Air releasing is what ****s Wario over. He definitely doesn't want to be doing that. His ground release is fine.

Hi im new here.

um I think G&W has the advantage because his aerials go through wario's aerials, that is all.

55:45 GaW

Hi VaJaJ.

This guy practices a LOT with a good Wario player. I'm sure he has more to add, and his opinion is probably worth listening to.

 

[K@0S]

I think what LouBega said was ironical, or well that's how it sounds to me.

55/45 for G&W sounds fine, Wario is too hard to juggle with his insane air mobility and airdodge, and he can SDI turtle to fart or nair quite easily.. But at least he has less priority and range.

 

[Tero.]

50/50 or probably 55:45 Wario.
He's just to hard to handle and he can cridiculously camp you on bigger stages.

 

[Max Ketchum]

I really think G&W wins 55:45, but I don't have any experience in the match. This is pure theory. Being outspaced in the air, Wario's stronger place, really sucks.

 

[LouBega]

No. Air releasing is what ****s Wario over. He definitely doesn't want to be doing that. His ground release is fine.

uhhhh...yeah, i wasn't being serious at all. i play with a good wario pretty much every day.

 

[VaJaJ]

Hi VaJaJ.

This guy practices a LOT with a good Wario player. I'm sure he has more to add, and his opinion is probably worth listening to.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey doomzy, u going to viridian city this weekend?<<lol its like it actually exists

hmm lets see wut i can contribute...

warios dair could well be his most used aerial , luckily nair/bair beats that. I tend to always use full hopped jumps as compared to short hops which works cuz he'll prolly be floating above u and it makes di'ing out of the turtle harder because your are rising with him.

Good wario's capitalize on your landing lag such as from bair and dair which works because he grab range is decent and his f tilt also has decent range and packs more kick than is seems like.

Also because of G&W's crappy grab range you shouldn't do that too much because of wario's floatiness and little ending lag gives him pretty good dodging skills.

His most reliable kill move is his fsmash (second best move is ftilt) because of the power and speed it has. It also has super armor frames, so always watch out for that and be sure to di or your going to die well before you should, especially when your near the ledge.

As for the fart.... aw man that fart. It's probably gonna get you eventually, best u can do pray that he misses u lol. If he bites you don't be a fool and try to wait it out because it does somewhat suprising amonut of damage if left alone, so start button mashing

eh, i'll try to give you guys some video's this weekend so you can see what me and mr.clutch's matches look like. Right after we win doubles at a tourney this sat, tee hee!

o yeah, we both think it's 55:45 G&W

 

[Max Ketchum]

Wouldn't Wario's uair be his second best kill move in this match? It's stronger and faster than ftilt and can hit at ground level anyway. Regardless, I really think G&W needs to keep this **** in the air.

Yeah, I'm going to Viridian. Watch out for me and Shadow. I teamed with Clutch last weekend, but he wasn't playing at his best so we did pretty badly. :/

 

[PhantomX]

In all honesty the only thing GW really has in the matchup is nair comboing. The damage output of each character is pretty silly. Hylian usually has to hit me with 5-6 moves to do a decent amount of percentage, and then I'll just upair him twice and we'll be evened out again.

I don't like upair in this matchup for a killer unless it's off a recent death, b/c your upsmash wrecks it. Preferred order of killers goes Waft > Fsmash > Ftilt > Upair. Waft is deceptively easy to land in this matchup b/c of how long you are committed to a lot of your moves. A fresh fsmash will kill you from anywhere at around 120%, and you won't get to bucket brake. Ftilt outranges almost all your moves (including dtilt), and clashes with all your smashes as well, lol.

I'll try to record some matches vs Hylian this weekend. Seriously, Wario wouldn't die before 170 if he's being careful, whereas you won't live past 120 if the Wario knows what he 's doing.

Who cares about your aerials "outprioritizing" ours when we can just get in there and grab ****. About 2/3 of the damage I do to GWs comes from aggressive grabbing. It's a pretty even matchup assuming both players know what to do.

Oh, and you start fullhopping, the Wario can just jog under you and uptilt, which beats out your key and pretty much anything you can do from above him. If GW has any advantages it's on counterpick stages, whereas Wario is a small margin superior on neutral stages, imo.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Who cares about your aerials "outprioritizing" ours when we can just get in there and grab ****. About 2/3 of the damage I do to GWs comes from aggressive grabbing. It's a pretty even matchup assuming both players know what to do.

I don't see how you're grabbing G&W a lot if he knows where to Jab. His Jab combo is pretty safe, and can't be shieldgrabbed.

And Wario should die at around 110% from a fresh F-air out of shield or from a fresh D-air edgeguard offstage. Offstage, Wario really can't do much to G&W. Whereas on the other hand G&W has a lot of lingering hitboxes that are very good for punishing pretty much any of Wario's recovery moves if read correctly.

 

[PhantomX]

I don't see how you're grabbing G&W a lot if he knows where to Jab. His Jab combo is pretty safe, and can't be shieldgrabbed.

And Wario should die at around 110% from a fresh F-air out of shield or from a fresh D-air edgeguard offstage. Offstage, Wario really can't do much to G&W. Whereas on the other hand G&W has a lot of lingering hitboxes that are very good for punishing pretty much any of Wario's recovery moves if read correctly.

I think I'll just let your fellow GW players point out everything that's wrong with what you just said.

 

[AzNfinesse]

from my experience, wario can be a nuisance to gnw.

wario's range in attacks is VERY deceiving. and he does have a strong aerial game (not the distance and lingering hitboxes like gnw does, but he does have strong, high priority aerials).

a well played wario can avoid almost all edgegames gnw has. when wario is doing his bike recovery, a nair, bair, or sweetspotted fair would usually do the trick. and when wario does his upb, a dair edgeguard should put wario in a bad position.

the main things wario has going for him is his strange physics. his jumps can lead to an extremely deceiving aerial game. it is easy to learn to read the patterns over time though, and warios only have about 3 or 4 attacks that can be used effectively against gnw (dair, utilt, ftilt, and fsamash). most of his aerial game can be neutralized with a well-spaced bair or well timed usmash (use extreme caution when using smash attacks against wario, as he can punish with an fsmash or a waf).

his bite attack is also one to watch out for. not because it racks up damage, but because most wario players use it as a follow up for some of his more painful combos, as a mindgame, or as a potential wario-cide.

the best way to beat wario is to space your attacks as best as you can. he can't punish a well spaced bair. and if you do get in trouble, an upb or a retreating bair should correct the issue. the biggest priority in this matchup is spacing and timing, as wario can severely punish ALL the common gnw mistakes.

my personal opinion on this matchup is 45/55 in favor of gnw.

 

[Max Ketchum]

I don't see how you're grabbing G&W a lot if he knows where to Jab. His Jab combo is pretty safe, and can't be shieldgrabbed.

And Wario should die at around 110% from a fresh F-air out of shield or from a fresh D-air edgeguard offstage. Offstage, Wario really can't do much to G&W. Whereas on the other hand G&W has a lot of lingering hitboxes that are very good for punishing pretty much any of Wario's recovery moves if read correctly.

lol

...Have you ever played an opponent that can DI? I remember you said fair kills Snake at 125%....watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up8HtbgXUeY (Ignore my Snake being pretty subpar at this point)

Honestly, I'm gonna stop taking your arguments seriously.

 

[Gishnak]

Wario is moving up in the world, he really is. I think this is 50/50 (possibly 55/45 Wario's favor). I played a decent amount of friendlies with Fiction, and we discussed the matchup a little.

Game and Watch's aerials are so committed, and his aerial movement is subpar compared to Wario's, that Wario doesn't have too much trouble weaving in and out and landing a down air. (or many other options)
Wario owns gdubs on the ground. Grab, shnair oos, shdair oos, ftilt, jab, jab->grab, bite... Gdubs can space dtilts and occasionally get in a grab or a jab-> grab, but gdubs doesn't want to fight wario on the ground most the time.

Gdub's nair is his best tool in this match, get below wario and nair wisely. But again, you need to be careful, a good wario can just space and wiggle around, and punish afterwards with a dair (or whatever). It's very frustrating trying to land aerials against a good wario.
As mentioned earlier, gdub's bair is a double edged sword. It's good because it outranges everything wario has to offer and out prioritizes, but the wario can sdi out usually and waft/uair/whatever :/.

Wario can punish gdubs landing lag as well with grabs or aerials because he's so mobile. And Wario probably will be shield grabbing a fair amount in this match.

As far as kill moves... Wario's waft is great. His fsmash can be good to punish landing lag, or punishing gdubs smashes/dtilt/dair if he power shields. (Don't think you need a ps for dair though) or even super armor through the turtle. Uair is a great damaging tool in this matchup, but it can still kill light-*** gdubs.

It's a pain landing kill moves on wario. Releasing usmashes is good because the hit box covers most of wario's approaches, and isn't very punishable. Unfortunately, good wario's will just avoid these. If you PS wario's fsmash, you get a free fsmash... If you ps his usmash you get a free dsmash. Tech chasing sometimes yields a smash, but other than, it is difficult to land a smash on a careful wario. Fair doesn't kill until much too high of percents, especially because it's likely stale by the time you need it, and when Wario becomes wary of your fair, it's also very hard to land.

Edgeguarding... Gdubs can fair/dair wario off his bike, or just fair wario to go for a kill. However, wario's are slippery, and it's much easier said then done. Wario can toss out an occasional fair to nudge gdubs, but his strength is the waft. If he predicts an airdodge, that's a dead gdubs at like 60% . (Maybe lower?)


So, in conclusion, if the two players arn't amazing, or don't know the matchup, gdubs will probably **** wario. However, amazing warios don't take **** from gdubs. Yeah, I think 55/45 wario.



A2: Wario's don't die at 110 to a fresh fair. Unless, it's near a blastzone... Also a fresh key won't kill wario offstage at 110 either. Your jab can't save you from being shieldgrabbed (which will be frequent in this matchup). And it isn't easy to read good warios.

 

[slikvik]

Gishnak, G&Ws aerial movement isn't subpar...its just not as good as warios lol

 

[DMG]

He said G&W's aerial movement is subpar when compared to Wario's lol. You both are on the same page

And yeah, G&W can die under 40% barely offstage if the Waft is charged enough.

And I also agree that at lower levels of play Wario does get wrecked by G&W, but at the top he becomes a little zesty for characters like even G&W to have a consistent advantage over. I think it's on average 55:45 Wario's favor (I used to think it was even months ago but I've talked to some other players and they think it's 55:45 Wario on average)

 

[slikvik]

*reads post again*

ohhhhh

I need a bit more experience in this match-up. Hylian was giving me a really hard time since he has tons of experience playing DMG and phantom, whereas OBM and myself who barely have experience in the match-up were pretty close.

 

[omegablackmage]

lol yeah slik, triple fairs.... but to be honest with you guys there is like what, 1 good wario players on the EC? its really depressing. He's probably my second best character, but that doesn't help since i can't play myself... I really hope spammerer starts maining wario cuz he said he liked him or something.

 

[PhantomX]

Atomsk said he might start maining him too. Wario's too fun... and too good ^_^

Or you guys could come down to Texas for WHOBO and play us

 

[Max Ketchum]

Atomsk
Spam
Slik's Wario is pretty solid
Afro Thundah (but he recently quit)
Mr. Clutch

There are a few good Warios, lol.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Phantom you wrecked my GW FS5 but i cant remember what i was doing or how i lost so easy. We must re-match!

 

[VaJaJ]

How about we just call this matchup even?

 

[slikvik]

Atomsk
Spam
Slik's Wario is pretty solid
Afro Thundah (but he recently quit)
Mr. Clutch

There are a few good Warios, lol.

Plank has a really good wario but he never uses it in tourney. he 2 stocked m2k with it...I'm convincing him to use it more. Vist is also converting to wario. CO18 is using wario in tourney now. There's definitely a wario movement happening on the EC

edit: I think this match-up is probably as even as it gets. Both parties think they have a 55-45 advantage so its probably even