Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Hylian]

Gishnak, everything you said was 100% correct .

I'm pretty confident in this match-up, but only because I have a lot of experience in it. I really think it's one of the most even matches in the game honestly.

When OBM and I played NinjaLink and MalcomM in teams I just tried to go after Malcoms wario the whole time lol. It worked pretty well . Especially with OBM saving me with Uair all the time lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

A few things.

Wario owns gdubs on the ground. Grab, shnair oos, shdair oos, ftilt, jab, jab->grab, bite... Gdubs can space dtilts and occasionally get in a grab or a jab-> grab, but gdubs doesn't want to fight wario on the ground most the time.

I believe playing a smart ground game is critical in this matchup on the other hand. I've played Skinny's Wario and most of my hits in this matchup usually were spacing D-tilt aside from juggles when he was above me. D-tilt and Jab stop him from aggressively grabbing. He will approach from the air and trick you into like a Bite or something. However your Up-B and N-air cover all the angles that D-tilt and Jab don't.

F-tilt if you pay attention is slow enough to be a free powershield -> F-smash. His Jab is a terrible attack and should never be used over grabbing or F-smash (it's slower than his grab... F-smash comes out same speed, grabbing does better for working around stale moves).

As far as kill moves... Wario's waft is great. His fsmash can be good to punish landing lag, or punishing gdubs smashes/dtilt/dair if he power shields. (Don't think you need a ps for dair though) or even super armor through the turtle. Uair is a great damaging tool in this matchup, but it can still kill light-*** gdubs.

Firstoff, Wario DOES need a PS to F-smash G&W's D-air. D-air's OOS advantage is -5. Wario's F-smash is frame 9. Pretty much the only thing he's able to get reliably is a grab from that.

 

[PhantomX]

K, well, we got a handful of matches recorded, they'll probably get uploaded within the next couple days.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah, though we killed ourselves a lot, you guys should still be able to get the general gist of the match-up haha.

 

[Cyan_]

Look forward to watching them, cause I'm pretty bad at the match up. :[

So both of you agree that it's 5:5?

 

[PhantomX]

Ok well, four of our videos are up, there will be two more coming... we played a full set but we each killed ourselves on at least one occasion so we did two more rounds after.

Hylian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVOdvv85-TA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZQByXlri9E&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDcMSp_Fkc&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ib39_vj-S8&feature=channel_page

The next two are friendlies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCP02cT4r8&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA_WJkhkcSY&feature=channel_page

I'll update with the other two links. But yeah, the matchup is intense.

As an added note... I hate his stupid turtle cancel thing... it's so tricksy.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

What do you mean turtle canceling?

 

[PhantomX]

If you look closely he does this thing where he ffs to the ground during the initial frames of the turtle (you can see the shell start to come out), which cancels the move, and then he does something else instead (he often cancels it into a smash though in this set of videos he did it a couple times into nairs).

 

[furiousduffmanx]

I might do it myself too but i just know the knowledge myself lol. thanks

 

[omegablackmage]

ok i'll leave wario up for a few more days maybe if people are still discussing the new vids put up, then we'll move on

 

[Hylian]

I like the very last game the best. Shows both of us punishing well and such.

Usually when I play with phantom it's very close, and he wins with a fart or I win lol. We go dead even in friendlies but I'm like 3-0 against him in tournament >_>.

Notice how I edgeguard wario. It's hard, but possible. You HAVE to watch out for his fart or you will lose lol, and adapt to the moves he punishes you with. He started punishing my nairs with ftilts and you see in the last video I space them outside his range if he's on the ground to avoid this. Don't key much in this match-up at all. Dtilt and Nair are your savoir. UP-b as well of course .

 

[Noa.]

Exactly what is that turtle cancel, how did you do it and why did you do it? Just interested.

 

[PhantomX]

I'll get you next time though, Hylian >: )

 

[cutter]

Exactly what is that turtle cancel, how did you do it and why did you do it? Just interested.

It's just using a Bair before the hitbox comes out and landing on the ground. You'll get a lag-free landing this way.

 

[PhantomX]

What cutter said. If you look at the very last round, you cane see him doing it as sort of a taunt after I lose my first stock b/c he baited me with it for the upsmash kill.

 

[Noa.]

Ok, I tried the turtle cancel. So what is it used for? Just for unpredictability and mindgames?

 

[MorphedChaos]

Well I'm a good Wario on the EC, but I can't compete much until this semester is over. If someone is near Hartford or Stratford then I could brawl them sometime in a tourny.

 

[omegablackmage]

what you live in CT? i haven't seen you at a tournament ever, you should go to tournaments i'll train your wario

 

[MorphedChaos]

XD. I used to go to tournys, but I can't anymore due to schooling. Once the Semester is over I can.

And I'll still own as Wario, I can take thing from paper and master them in a few hours. Fiction's tire throw chain though, I only do 2 or 3 throws before the Fsmash, as I still think people can SDI away at anything more then 3 throws.

 

[VaJaJ]

75% of hylian's moves don't even hit lol

 

[Neb]

75% of hylian's moves don't even hit lol

He's using brickwalls to keep Wario out, and also to bait.

 

[PhantomX]

Overestimation/cockiness is generally unbecoming, Chaos. And, lol, OBM, you don't even play Wario, how are you gonna train him!?

And Wario is a hard bugger to hit in the first place... not to mention if he stays stationary/unthreatening for too long I'd be all over him. He literally makes it incredibly difficult for me to bite or string hits together with the way he plays. Wario hits hard, and GW can't afford to be hit hard.

When we first started playing each other, I could oftentimes hit him with a low percent combo up to 50%, but that doesn't happen anymore T_T

 

[Max Ketchum]

G&W hits hard too, removing Wario's excellent asset of survivability. The killing really goes back and forth in this match, it seems. I'd try to keep myself on the ground if I were Wario against G&W, I think.

 

[PolMex23]

Luigi vs GaW is 50/50

Omega i challenge you to a 50$ MM at genesis, 3/5, no johns MM

Thank you and good day

 

[Max Ketchum]

PolMex, I'll do $5 G&W vs. Luigi at Genesis.

No way in hell that match is even.

 

[PolMex23]

make that 20 sir im trying to prove a point.

....I might agree for ...ahhh

Ok, its not even, but for high caliber luigis and GaWs the match up is even and in MY, my, and I believe boss' opinion it sways towards Luigis favor ...Only other top luigi that says no is BigLou, but he doesnt know what to do.

Boss gets lazy against GaWs or somthin...i dont.

But, 20$, no less...if not, im a nice guy =)...idc, ill friendly you any day all day at genesis ima be playing so much smash. but yeah 20

But ill go with 5 lol

 

[DMG]

Lol...

What does Luigi do if G&W wants to play like a douche and edgecamp HARD? I'm not even bringing up the fact that Luigi has trouble reaching G&W ON stage, and he's already at a disadvantage lol.

But that is a good way to get MM's. So i can't argue with that lol.

And no, Wario in the air is a lot harder to kill than Wario on the ground. Only because Wario is so flexible in the air.

 

[Max Ketchum]

I agree about the killing situation, but in the air is where I'd think Wario takes the most damage.

Forget about G&W edgecamping...I think what's worse is just fully spacing bairs and dtilts. Dtilt beats Cyclone and fireballs, and is safe on block. Bair is just pure ****...as long as G&W doesn't land with lag right in front of Luigi's shield, he's fine.

 

[Gates]

Someone should update the thread title since the Wario discussion clearly reached a satisfying conclusion and we have move on to discuss the Luigi matchup.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Luigi needs no rediscussion. 7:3 is a perfect ratio for that match (MAYBE 75:25).

 

[PolMex23]

75 25? k cant wait to sway that at genesis 50 for omega since hes the best 20 for anyone else an if u dont wanna MM than pride friendlies in which u have a chance to shut me up...

Umm....What does luigi do...blah blah blah?

He does somthing, thats what. Why explain a simple match up? Its not that hard, u guys just dont have a creative mind to combat a seemingly impassable wall...

Cant wait till genesis.

 

[omegablackmage]

we'll see if i even go to genesis, but if i go, i'll def get some matches in with you. i dunno if i'll have enough for that large of a mm. i don't really think luigi is 5/5 though,

i think wario is an amazingly fun character to play phantom, he's probably my second most played character after gw of course, soooo much fun.

 

[PhantomX]

we'll see if i even go to genesis, but if i go, i'll def get some matches in with you. i dunno if i'll have enough for that large of a mm. i don't really think luigi is 5/5 though,

i think wario is an amazingly fun character to play phantom, he's probably my second most played character after gw of course, soooo much fun.

Sexy <3 Just ditch GW and we can be best friends.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Man i never knew there were so many GW/wario players. This will probably be the match up that is discussed the most lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Luigi vs GaW is 50/50

Omega i challenge you to a 50$ MM at genesis, 3/5, no johns MM

Thank you and good day

I will MM you if you're up for it. I'm the most firm believer that G&W is a hard counter to Luigi.

Luigi can't land a KO move on a G&W that just spaces B-airs and D-tilts. That simple. There are only two attacks he can land on a G&W that wants to play defensively. Tornado and Fireball.

And for the record, neither of those attacks KO.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Luigi vs GaW is 50/50

Omega i challenge you to a 50$ MM at genesis, 3/5, no johns MM

Thank you and good day

I see so much flaming pontential in this post.

 

[Hylian]

75% of hylian's moves don't even hit lol

That's because I'm not trying to hit him with all my moves LOL. Try doing that to a good wario and have fun being 3 stocked. You HAVE to bait wario and keep walls up to avoid punishment. You want to make them push past your wall of attacks and spacing and earn that damage on you, because Wario kills GW FAST and GW can't take that punishment. Make your opponent work for the win, don't give it to them.

G&W hits hard too, removing Wario's excellent asset of survivability. The killing really goes back and forth in this match, it seems. I'd try to keep myself on the ground if I were Wario against G&W, I think.

This post makes me think you don't have much experience in this match. Wario does great in the air against GW and get's most of his damage from baiting him there. Wario wants you to attack and move upwards and miss, so he can get free damage in. On the ground he isn't nearly as threatening as far as racking up % goes. Wario's not going to get much OOS very often because of GW's range.

They also don't kill each other fast. GW is great at racking up % in this match but it's REALLY hard for him to land KO moves against wario. Wario on the other hand has several reliable ways to kill GW from 100-120% while GW often finds himself stuggling to kill wario at over 150%. It becomes exceptionally hard to kill them when you know they have a strong waft ready, because if you miss once you take MAJOR punishment and GW cannot afford that being one of the lightest characters in the game.

 

[UTDZac]

I'm pretty sure 75% of my moves don't hit either. But while I'm doing random Fishbowl attacks in the air without landing, I dare you to approach. Empty attacks aren't useless.

 

[PhantomX]

And then Zac counterpicks you to Skyworld and you just lose *rollseyes*

 

[MorphedChaos]

I hate Skyworld, the entire stage is basically Fight Club, ugh. I can live to over 400% there with teching if the opponent sucks at launching. Glad that stage is banned just about everywhere. I have a hard time maneuvering through the platforms though, won't lie about that.

And yeah PX, I get a little erigant when I'm having a blast. One reason why I don't like flesh.