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Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

A2ZOMG

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I dunno, I don't think Princess Aura Up-Bed enough, or deal with the Gyro that well. Also there were some pretty unwisely timed D-airs. Good matches overall though.
 

omegablackmage

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i've also found that robs only really do well vs me when the grab ALOT, could be a style thing but i have a feeling that its one of the few things that help rob do decently.
 

A2ZOMG

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IMO:

It's good against G&W because all of ROB's grabs are good, especially since they are HUGE, and because G&W doesn't have many good GET OFF ME attacks especially if he's put in a position where he wants to shield. Most of G&W's attacks are better for keeping people away in the first place.

Also, ROB from what I've seen has a good dash pivot...
 

K 2

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G&W can obviously bucket the lasers for a powerful bucket. G&W also has a very nice glidetoss (with the gyro, in this case). This severely reduces's ROB's campyness.

I don't have too much experience in this matchup, but I remember reading somewhere that ROB has a terrible time dealing with people below him, more specifically, being juggled. His dair stops his downward momentum, which doesn't help to avoid being juggled. Uair and Nair should work well to juggle ROB...

You can DI out of ROB's dsmash by simply holding up on the control stick (I don't think SDI is needed, but you might as well play it safe and SDI anyways).

Watch out for lasers after you get sent flying, since ROB's often follow up with lasers after they hit you offstage (Bucket Cancelling works nice). Also, watch out for lasers are they recover. They like to shoot crap at you when they are recovering.
 

omegablackmage

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i was thinking that there would be a lot of discussion on this considering that they are both top tier characters. but then when i thought about it more i realized that everyone has come to terms that gw just destroys rob. probably a 65/35 since he does much better than ness, he at least has a ground counter, projectile that works, decent recovery and edgeguarding and is pretty heavy to boot. I'll probably do the write up later tonight.
 

K 2

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Ugh...The G&W boards have died. No ones posted in my stage discussion either...everything is...dead...
 

Mr. Escalator

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I just can't comment on this matchup. It's one of my least played high tiered matchups xD
Also I cant comment on siege either, since I hardly play it. If you want my opinion on it, I think it's not a good G&W stage. Other guys can now refresh their good kill moves whereas G&W doesnt have an issue with that anyways. The only thing I like for this is the transition change where you can dthrow them, but thats hard on aware opponents.

I know this is the matchup thread, but I felt like responding to K 2 here >:O
What is the matchup, OBM? I requested ZSS, but I think we should someone higher in the tier lists that would generate more discussion; nobody really fights ZSS :<
 

Cubone

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I think the R.O.B boards actually have it as 3:7 G&W. As mentioned R.O.B has a terrible time trying to get back to the ground due to his combination of floatness and no attacks that cover the area well unless they predict it a mile away. R.O.B. also loses his huge advantage of living to unbelievable %'s due to G&Ws powerful smashes.

Bucketing smartly will shut down half his camping game, especially since its really popular to be shot at when you're offstage when he usually won't be able to punish the lag. In addition, you can take his gyro and not only hurt his only other option to camp and abuse G&W's amazing glide toss.

All R.O.B. really has to fight back with is his d-tilt and more so, his f-tilt.
 

omegablackmage

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Rob: (65/35)

General Matchup:
  • Rob specializes in a very good projectile game, excellent recovery, and decent reach and combos.
  • Rob doesn't have a particularly amazing amount of priority on his attacks, however he does have pretty good reach in the places that he needs it. Ftilt is probably among one of the best speed/range ratio moves in the game. This, coupled with smart use of his laser and gyro can make it difficult to approach rob. The fair, nair, dtilt, uptilt, and bair also have pretty decent range, so watch out for that.
  • Rob has been somewhat notorious for lacking in the kill move department. If saved, the nair makes for a good kill move, however, due to its great versatility, rob players tend to use this move to approach and to punish in the air. The fsmash, upsmash, and bair also are decent kill moves as well, along with the upthrow (usually kills around 160 and up on gw most stages).
  • Rob's recovery is interesting in this matchup. Against most characters, rob has very little trouble recovering due to how far his up b can get him. However, against mk and gw, rob finds himself in a difficult bind returning to the stage. Through a combination of up b, neutral b, fairs, dtilts, up airs, and dairs, gw can make it near impossible for rob to recover.
  • Rob will probably have some of the best edgeguarding against gw that any character has. Because rob can venture so far off the stage, he has no problem dropping very low into gw's recovery path to interrupt him. Fairs and bairs can easily push gw back out into a bad spot. Keep an eye on the rob trying to interrupt you and try to get a fair/nair out before they can start pressuring you on your way back.
  • Rob has some combos to take note of. Fair chaining on and off the stage is very possible and you should attempt to di away and up b as soon as possible to interrupt this. Dtilt locks against walls are also tricky to avoid in some situations given how fast the move is, and this move can be a very nice setup for grabs as well. Dthrow to upair at 0 percent can rack up a quick thirty damage, so also watch for this.
  • Gw's combos are pretty run of the mill in this matchup. Rob's large frame helps gw to catch him in nairs and bairs, and also uptilt chains at low percent. Robs tech roll is a bit below average, so tech chasing him is certainly within reason given that he has a large frame to boot. Up air pressure works alright, however b sticked gyros and bairs certainly can shift his momentum enough to possibly throw you off.

General Strategies:
  • When on the stage a campy rob can be difficult to deal with. Rob can very easily beat a lot of your aerial approaches by simply walking out of range and forward tilting. This will beat even the turtle approach if done right. Make sure you know how to mix up your approaches and even become over aggressive with cross up nairs or simple grabbing to throw the rob off. Also watch out for the uptilt, which will often times hit you when your above him trying to get behind him, and its even fast enough to beat your key if you start at the same time. When they move even further away, make sure to watch for the laser and bucket, the cooldown of the laser is usually high enough to ensure you won't get punished for bucketing. When facing the gyro try to avoid it and pick it up, giving you a nice glide toss approach which can get you in his face quickly.
  • Edgeguarding rob is really where gw gains a large advantage in this matchup. Sit on the ledge and toss bacon if they are coming from the side or below diagonally. If they come from above dj up b will usually knock them back out. If they come from below, rar'd key near the edge will hit them. When they get closer, switch from bacon to dtilt usually, rob's will approach with aerials or try to grab the ledge. If they come from below try to get a key out like before. Dtilt beats upairs from below and fairs spaced. Jumping off and fairing can also work well in your favor if you know when to use it. If they grab the ledge, wait and shield when you see movement. If they get up attack, you can sh a fair to knock them back out. If they roll turn around and grab them/throw them out. If they get up, this can throw you off, try to predict it and grab them. If they jump from ledge, either jump nair to up b or just up b to knock them back out. If you rinse and repeat this method, they will run out of gas shortly and die. Of course smart players will have their tricks too, this doesn't mean gw will always kill rob if he's off the stage. Lasers, going under the stage, smart up b'ing can all help save the rob.
  • This matchup is very simple after getting around the camping and edgeguarding issues. Make use of your range in this matchup as it is usually better than the robs in the air when they approach you. If you work your kill moves in at the right time (they have a hard time killing gw's, so you will likely not get punished as hard for whiffing) then you will likely be able to take the matchup without much trouble.

Stages:
  • Rob is actually quite proficient on all the stages that gw is good on. If corneria is on certainly go for that, but other than that go for neutrals in my opinion.
  • There's nothing in particular you should ban, as the stages rob is good on gw doesn't have a particular disadvantage on. Although do take note of the stages rob might be able to dtilt lock you on (you can do it back too!)
 

A2ZOMG

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Kirby huh.

IMO, this matchup is so bad for Kirby, I feel bad for him.

He lacks any reliable approach. D-tilt ruins anything he does in the air. B-air snuffs out anything on the ground. That simple.

Just camp him out and the KO will eventually come. Whether it's a D-air/F-air offstage or punishing one of his "approaches" with a Smash. Oh yeah, and if he recovers from below, just D-air him. It will always hit him, and he can't do a thing about it.

He does have a gay F-smash but that's really as gay as it gets for him in this matchup.

Don't forget, you can absorb Final Cutter and Chef from him.

At least 70/30 G&W.
 

Hylian

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I've absolutly destroyed every kirby I have played. I also play a really good kirby though..*shrugs*. Kirby can kill GW super fast if he lands a fsmash.

I don't actually know much about the match-up as I've never had competition to analize my game against him. I can usually just spam D-tilt and Bair and win against kirby. I really think kirby is underated though and I would love to play something like Chu before solidifying my opinion on this one.
 

omegablackmage

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i played chu in a money match right after ch3 and won, but that was only a bit after he started using kirby, im sure now it would much closer.

and ya kirby, after this pit and ice climbers, i think that will finish high tier, then i'll start jumping around.
 

A2ZOMG

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I think Kirby is good in Brawl (mainly because he has a VERY good defensive game), but has some pretty glaring weaknesses against camping. Especially against a character like G&W who is good at covering the angles at which Kirby can approach from.
 

~ Gheb ~

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In A2ZOMGs world G&W beats everyone "at least 7/3".
He's propably right this time though.
 

A2ZOMG

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What kind of a stupid exaggeration is that? The only thing you accomplish by saying that is pissing me off. Because it is BLATANTLY not true.
 

K 2

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G&W's disjointed hitbox and insane priority beats out almost all of kirby's moves. G&W can bucket the final cutter (up b) and the bacon (if kirby swallows G&W up). Kirby is uber light so he will die really early.\\
 

DavidZou

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im in agreement with 6/4 in favor of gw. Looks like everyone thinks is fsmash is very lame. The fmash covers his entire body for the entire duration of the move and punishes rolls like no tomorrow. That along with the hammer can kill gw very early. A defensive kirby can be very annoying if played right. But gw wins out cuz all of his smashes kill kirby at like 70% or somethin.
 

K 2

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G&W outprioritzes kirby with his disjointed hitbox, so unless G&W screws up his spacing, he should be safe from kirby's fsmash.
 

omegablackmage

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they have it listed as a 6/4 on the kirby boards. they brought up some good points overall, but im inclined to think its a 65/35, no more than that certainly. Gw's big range obviously plays a pretty large part in this matchup, both on the ground with dtilts and in the air with fairs, nairs, bairs, and even keys. Kirby def has the kill potential, probably coming close to matching gw's but other than a good recovery, im not sure why it wouldn't be a 65/35
 

K 2

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I think its more like 65/35.

You also have to watch out for the stone. It got majorly buffed since melee and it will probably kill you more than once.
 

xgina

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i play a pretty good kirby once in a while and yeah it's probably 6-4.

fsmash beats out dtilt =(
 

TechnoMonster

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Kirby huh.

IMO, this matchup is so bad for Kirby, I feel bad for him.

He lacks any reliable approach. D-tilt ruins anything he does in the air. B-air snuffs out anything on the ground. That simple.

Just camp him out and the KO will eventually come. Whether it's a D-air/F-air offstage or punishing one of his "approaches" with a Smash. Oh yeah, and if he recovers from below, just D-air him. It will always hit him, and he can't do a thing about it.

He does have a gay F-smash but that's really as gay as it gets for him in this matchup.

Don't forget, you can absorb Final Cutter and Chef from him.

At least 70/30 G&W.
I feel this is mostly a large understatement of Kirby's game, Game and Watch is a tough nut for Kirby to crack, but much like Kirby vs. Snake, its all about knowing the matchup and putting Game and Watch on his toes. Game and Watch has no valid approach vs. Kirby, and Kirby has a lot of options all around, and is a ******* to kill in the right hands.

First of all, Kirby can KO G+W at around 80-90% with a well-placed/timed f-smash, which isn't a matter of being hard to land if you know the matchup and can call the player. You can land it after any smash, in between d-tilts (just don't run into the D-tilt hitbox during the startup and have correct spacing), after turtle->spotdodge, or after avoiding a D-air with a roll, or after a D-tilt trip.

Second of all, Kirby can play range games with his D-tilt. It ties your D-tilt, comes out just as fast and has good range, does 6% and trips for about a 20% combo when combined with a grab, and has nifty followups, and is very good out of shield if Kirbah can mix up your spacing, and if you want to get super serious and start f-smashing, we have plenty of time to shield it. Its not so much that we win a standing/walking range game (we don't, you can sometimes hit our foot, and mostly do more damage), its that we can create a range game and win it with good reactions and predictions. For instance, Kirbah D-tilts twice into air, G+W walks up, d-smashes out of our range, we don't d-tilt and get a free f-smash. Or, Kirbah d-tilts, G+W calls it and goes for B-air, we shield on reaction and punish with a D-tilt, which is 100% safe, and we're still d-tilting.

From there the game just kind of changes. D-airs become more available to Kirby, and we can use spacing mixups and crossups if we're going to miss. G+W spotdodges more (again, D-airs and F-smashes become more available, along with things like grab, dash attack, F-air pressures). G+W goes for stuff that he might not've done before, like D-air, and we get more free hits (I really, really don't recommend this move against Kirby). So now its really a matter of G+W retaining composure and using the right move at the right time to keep Kirby and his dirty f-smash out after about 60%.

Kirby also has a few neat tricks; if you space your aerials so Kirby can't punish them, he can just up-B backwards and you'll whiff and get hit by the cutter for free %. He can also Kirbycide almost for free if he edgehogs you correctly.

The biggest problem that I personally have against G+W is the spacing/shield stun head games, and his grab game. You can land big percent against a good Kirby and go for kills off of his downthrow, and we'll eventually miss the tech, or get predictable on our rolls. Anyway, I really enjoy fighting against good Game and Watches, its a good test of my natural reactions and spacing, and my ability to harass a good character and control the fight.

And when I play, I find that I so rarely get outprioritized that I don't think its truly relevant to the matchup. I promise not to try to u-tilt you out of your D-air. As far as priorities go, our D-air beats f-smash and d-smash and we have enough jumps and good fastfall speed so we can fux with U-smash and U-tilt. The biggest thing is G+W's up-B vs. our D-air which is a major pain vs. our main setup, otherwise good Kirbies won't be running into your smashes or anything. Our D-tilt is much too fast to be beaten out with an f-smash or d-smash or an aerial, and ties/beats all your other ground stuff like dash attack and jab. If you f-smash preemptively its a free f-smash for us, and please try to spotdodge it because I'm chargin' mah laser.



I agree with 65-35 as a high level winrate for Game and Watch, just wanted to tell you guys what's up.
 

A2ZOMG

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Whoa sorry man I was just kidding

Why u so seriously?
sry, I was tired and irritable. I played video games til 5:00 AM. O_o

If Kirby F-smashes (or does any attack) into G&W's B-air, he stubs his toe.

G&W is also *very* good at edgeguarding Kirby, you must realize. Up-Bs, F-airs, D-airs, and even D-tilt are all very hard for Kirby to get past, meaning that Kirby is at a serious disadvantage offstage and is liable to take a lot of damage or get KOed from that position.
 

_Phloat_

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I played ChuDat.. I got ***** =o

But, I learned that kirby plays a mean game of keep away, it was a veerrrrryyy slow match, and kirby can keep it up...

Rushdown got me punished though.

But, I didn't learn to much about kirby, just about players. I got beaten by ChuDat, not by kirby =]
 

K 2

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Kirby kills G&W at 90%? G&W can land an usmash out a techchase and kill kirbster at 70 ish percent. If G&W spaces bair and dtilt properly, it will be almost impossible for kirby to punish him. G&W can just sit back and camp...
 

DavidZou

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agreed on techno's chargin his laser. Oh yea and agreed on the gw camping part. Sometimes if u get too overly agressive happy and beating them to a pulp, theyll go and kirbacide on u. Its so annoying. Does anyone know the properties on that move btw? Sometimes i think i lose my jump after i mash out of it. What i like doing now if hes hanging around the edge is just repeat dtilt at max range so that if he chills too long hell get a manhole on the fingers or face. And extra note: I HATE KIRBY'S FSMASH
 

Asdioh

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IMO, this matchup is so bad for Kirby, I feel bad for him.
I used to think that too, until I got more used to G&W, and now I realize it's really not all that hard.

Beating G&W in lag, however, is ridiculous. Two reasons for that:
1. His disjointed aerials require Kirby to space very well, but doing that on wifi is hell.
2. Teching is almost impossible on wifi, so dthrow is too good.
2.5 I run into obvious smashes a lot in lag >_>
The biggest problem that I personally have against G+W is the spacing/shield stun head games, and his grab game.
The biggest problem I see against G&W are the ridiculous invincibility frames on his Up B, which make him essentially ungimpable. Other than that, he's not that hard. Actually, his Up B in general makes me sad, since G&W can use it to escape low % throw combos.

In the air, Kirby can space against you. He can use back air after you use yours, or he can use upair from below and to a slight angle to beat out your downair. His Final Cutter is also disjointed, and though it has a small startup time, if G&W is spamming aerials predictably, Final Cutter easily outranges them, and it does nice damage. If you land all 3 hits of Final Cutter, it does 15-16%.

G&W has amazing smashes, but they're generally pretty predictable, and a good Kirby will know to watch out for them. He can bait upsmash with his multiple jumps combined with fastfall. If the bait doesn't work, he can fly out of range and try again.

Fsmash punishes rolldodges and spotdodges hardcore, but Kirby can punish it pretty easily with aerial approaches or Final Cutter.

Downsmash...same as Fsmash.

um...what else? You say G&W can edgeguard Kirby easily, but I don't see it. Final Cutter (I think) beats out Dtilt, unless you're doing it way over the edge, where he can punish you with upair if he has enough jumps left. Kirby can definitely not edgeguard G&W unless he gets lucky, so that's a pretty big disadvantage.

If both players are smart, this can be a pretty even matchup. I'd say 60-40 at MOST in G&W's favor. I don't really see how it's 65-35 or higher.

If you were to ask Ron, he'd probably say it's 50-50..I remember him saying somewhere that G&W is easy.

And although I think it's been established: Kirby's fsmash owns :] and both characters can kill each other at very low percents.

Anyway, if anyone wants to 1v1 me to test this stuff out, send me a PM or message me on AIM (blackvoidx is my screenname). I promise I'm pretty good, but like I said earlier, I think G&W is much harder to beat online than offline. :[
 

A2ZOMG

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I added you on AIM.

Honestly, Kirby can't really compete with the B-air. If G&W knows how to space, he will be aware that Kirby's B-air DOES have similar range to it, but it's not disjointed. Kirby can't blindly challenge any of G&W's attacks, and if G&W reads an aerial approach, 95% of the time it will be beaten by D-tilt.

Kirby might go reasonably close with G&W ON stage, but it's offstage where he has a pretty severe disadvantage offstage, G&W can abuse to fullest extent his raw power. If Kirby goes below stage for one instant, he eats a D-air (and risks getting stagespiked), meaning he HAS to recover from above, which is STILL a major disadvantage for him, because of G&W's insane juggling game. F-air also outprioritizes Kirby's aerials due to the disjointed range, and KOs at almost as low of percents as G&W's Smashes.

Mentioning juggling, Kirby really can't put G&W in that many disadvantaged positions. However, when he's above G&W, it's pretty clear he's at a significant disadvantage. G&W has U-air stalling, N-air, and Up-B to juggle, and Kirby really doesn't have a whole ton of options to get back to the ground except Down B offstage, which can be risky.

Also, Kirby really shouldn't use Final Cutter much if at all in this matchup. G&W can bucket it pretty easily.

Either way, I don't think this is a close matchup, and it's definitely in G&W's favor.

Watch this match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xT8hM60cUg
 

MK26

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^^

Final Cutter spam
Rock spam
Dash attack spam
F-smash spam
Not enough B-air
Not a single grab
Not a single U-tilt
Not enough tilts in general
Stupid Neutral-B usage
Dumb time to taunt

uhh...what else is there to say? I don't want to sound insulting, but that Kirby was pretty bad.

I'm standing by 60-40, but a G&W nowhere near A2Z's skill could destroy a low-level Kirby easily.

EDIT: to add something to this discussion, id like to say that Kirby needs to play defensive in this match. Bait-and-punish, campy style, with lots of shield grabs and counterattacking works best for Kirby. Going aggressive will just get you killed quickly.
 

K 2

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haha bucket kill!

Don't forget though G&W can also sit back and play campy. He will be able to shut out almost all of kirby's approaches.
 

Asdioh

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^^

Final Cutter spam
Rock spam
Dash attack spam
F-smash spam
Not enough B-air
Not a single grab
Not a single U-tilt
Not enough tilts in general
Stupid Neutral-B usage
Dumb time to taunt

uhh...what else is there to say? I don't want to sound insulting, but that Kirby was pretty bad.

I'm standing by 60-40, but a G&W nowhere near A2Z's skill could destroy a low-level Kirby easily.

EDIT: to add something to this discussion, id like to say that Kirby needs to play defensive in this match. Bait-and-punish, campy style, with lots of shield grabs and counterattacking works best for Kirby. Going aggressive will just get you killed quickly.
Agreed with everything you just said :/

That was wifi, right? Like I said earlier, a match where one player can be as aggressive as he wants, and the other has to play defensively and space perfectly, is hard for the defensive player on wifi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoBU7u8nFpg
watch THAT match :p I make a lot of obvious mistakes (I use Stone way too much for some reason) and I might have won if I had jablocked against the wall at the end, but it's a decent match. Shows what happens when I get too aggressive, and then what happens when I'm more defensive.
(or you could watch me being "cheap" and winning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYNo1-a6Pek
 

K 2

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Man, that G&W was ******** (on the second match). You should NEVER be killed by the same tactic twice, expecially within 30 seconds of dieing from it the first time.
 

Asdioh

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Man, that G&W was ******** (on the second match). You should NEVER be killed by the same tactic twice, expecially within 30 seconds of dieing from it the first time.
XD

Unless you're fighting me, with my 1337 mindgaemz and all... lol

Great... everyone's playing the "that _____ wasn't good/you haven't played good _____!"

:/
I blame wifi. D:

I played PrincessAura offline last weekend...though it was in doubles >_>
 
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