Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[omegablackmage]

i bet fair would beat it, but its so manipulative that its probably easy to avoid a fair.

 

[K 2]

Getting extreme vertical height with Squall is very difficult though. They have to mash b like crazy to get that height.

 

[Neb]

Does it have i-frames, or just mean priority?

 

[A2ZOMG]

It comes out fast and has really good priority.

 

[slikvik]

Getting extreme vertical height with Squall is very difficult though. They have to mash b like crazy to get that height.

in melee, chudat could recover from the bottom of FD

This can be a difficult match if your spacing isn't perfect, otherwise they(a really good IC's) will powershield everything you throw out perfectly(especially bairs. space the bairs perfectly) to grab...and GG

 

[Hylian]

This match-up is close to even. I would say 55-45 for GW. Most IC's players just suck >_> lol.

I'll post reasons later probably. I just got off work.

 

[Cubone]

If you were to bucket blizzard wouldn't they have enough time to grab you (which is more than likely a kill)?

I don't think anyones mentioned that they can desync and attack seperately (to an extent) either, wouldn't that let them approach pretty well?

 

[K 2]

in melee, chudat could recover from the bottom of FD

This can be a difficult match if your spacing isn't perfect, otherwise they(a really good IC's) will powershield everything you throw out perfectly(especially bairs. space the bairs perfectly) to grab...and GG

The Icies can go under FD in brawl (O.o)

 

[ignore the fire]

If the G&W spaces perfectly, the ICs don't have many options.
A lot of ICs rely on blizzards as an approach, but the bucket pretty much negates the effectiveness of this.
I'm pretty sure G&W's dtilt can stop ice blocks, which is another option ICs rely on for zoning and getting grabs.
G&W's bair will **** the ICs. If Popo power shields it, Nana will eat the bair. If Nana powershields it, Popo's shield will take a beating.
I wouldn't be too worried about getting shield grabbed here, because you'll end up pushing one of the climbers away or separating them with your ranged arials.

Definitely in G&W's favor. I'd say at least 60:40. I think the IC boards have it as 70:30 though.

 

[Hylian]

If the G&W spaces perfectly, the ICs don't have many options.
A lot of ICs rely on blizzards as an approach, but the bucket pretty much negates the effectiveness of this.
I'm pretty sure G&W's dtilt can stop ice blocks, which is another option ICs rely on for zoning and getting grabs.
G&W's bair will **** the ICs. If Popo power shields it, Nana will eat the bair. If Nana powershields it, Popo's shield will take a beating.
I wouldn't be too worried about getting shield grabbed here, because you'll end up pushing one of the climbers away or separating them with your ranged arials.

Definitely in G&W's favor. I'd say at least 60:40. I think the IC boards have it as 70:30 though.

This post is just full of ignoarance and an example of why a lot of people think GW ***** IC's.

>_<.

1. You will get grabbed if you bucket a desynched Blizzard. The bucket is also very weak with blizzard.

2. No good IC players rely on Iceblocks at all. They are useful in specific match-ups and sitting there dtilting them also doesn't do anything for GW unless he is winning. In which case IC's can approach with alt Ice blocks into desynched blizzard which is perfectly safe against GW.

3. You have to be very careful with bair because they can run forward at you and PS to grab. It's only safe when you retreat or actually hit them. IC's can Squall out of shield after your bair finishes and it will hit GW.

Not too many people have a lot of experience in this match-up. The ones that do have experience against well known IC players tend to agree that it's close to even with GW having a slight advantage.

 

[lain]

LOL. this matchup is eazy peazy.

G&W can't get through the blizzard range. And if he tries to go over and dair it's easily predictable and counterable.

Plus, if you just shield the whole bair you can sometimes run and catch them. Also, rolling behind them while they are bairing = ****.

it's simply that G&W has to be fairly close to hit people, and simple spacing can **** that up.

60:40, maybe a little more even simply because if he starts hitting you he can start ****** from there.

 

[ignore the fire]

This post is just full of ignoarance and an example of why a lot of people think GW ***** IC's.

>_<.

1. You will get grabbed if you bucket a desynched Blizzard. The bucket is also very weak with blizzard.

2. No good IC players rely on Iceblocks at all. They are useful in specific match-ups and sitting there dtilting them also doesn't do anything for GW unless he is winning. In which case IC's can approach with alt Ice blocks into desynched blizzard which is perfectly safe against GW.

3. You have to be very careful with bair because they can run forward at you and PS to grab. It's only safe when you retreat or actually hit them. IC's can Squall out of shield after your bair finishes and it will hit GW.

Not too many people have a lot of experience in this match-up. The ones that do have experience against well known IC players tend to agree that it's close to even with GW having a slight advantage.

I was talking about synced blizzards. Desynced blizzards aren't always an option. Can you still get the grab after a synced bucketed blizzard?

When I mentioned IBs, I was just giving another example of an approach option that G&W can stop. I know it's not always the best choice.

I know both climbers can't perfect shield. Since both can't perfect shield, won't one either get pushed back or hit? I didn't think you could get a grab from this. I've never tried squall though.

You definitely know more than I do and I believe you that the matchup is what you say it is. I still have to question the above points, though.

 

[Hylian]

I was talking about synced blizzards. Desynced blizzards aren't always an option. Can you still get the grab after a synced bucketed blizzard?

When I mentioned IBs, I was just giving another example of an approach option that G&W can stop. I know it's not always the best choice.

I know both climbers can't perfect shield. Since both can't perfect shield, won't one either get pushed back or hit? I didn't think you could get a grab from this. I've never tried squall though.

You definitely know more than I do and I believe you that the matchup is what you say it is. I still have to question the above points, though.

1. Why would you use a synched blizzard against GW? GW can also just stand there and forward smash if you keep running into it but it's a mute point because it won't happen with good players.

2. Both IC's can PS if you are running since nana is behind popo.

 

[ignore the fire]

1. Why would you use a synched blizzard against GW? GW can also just stand there and forward smash if you keep running into it but it's a mute point because it won't happen with good players.

2. Both IC's can PS if you are running since nana is behind popo.

That's what I'm saying. Synced blizzards lose their effectiveness against G&W. And off course good players don't run into obvious attacks, but blizzards can also be used a retreating defensive option for cover.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wow, people here are making this matchup sound gayer than the Olimar matchup. And that one is already stupidly gay.

When I think about my few experiences playing against other ICs, yeah. I guess it's really really really ****ing gay.

 

[ignore the fire]

Wow, people here are making this matchup sound gayer than the Olimar matchup. And that one is already stupidly gay.

When I think about my few experiences playing against other ICs, yeah. I guess it's really really really ****ing gay.

Hmmmm. I've never considered this.
Thank you for your lovely insight.

 

[omegablackmage]

Ice Climbers: (60/40)

General Matchup:

• Ice climbers are the best in the game at punishment. One grab given the right conditions takes a stock from gw, i don't think any other character in the game can claim that. Overall though, they have decent strength, good keep away game/range, and aren't particularly slow either.
• Ice climbers actually have a lot of awkward priority in some places. Their up air will go through your key, uptilt does as well. Of course their blizzard will go through just about everything, and bucketing this doesn't usually produce good results (very weak).
• IC's main methods to kill are almost always through grabs. All of their smashes from grabs will produce good results for them at high percent, more notably the upsmash, these are of course, inescapable, if the player knows what they are doing. Other than that, bair and up air can be surprisingly strong if the moves are kept fresh.
• Ice climbers will try to avoid recovering with the belay (up b) if at all possible. Mainly because an edgehog can kill nana easily, and if not, then it leaves them vulnerable on the stage for a fair at the least. They will likely make use of the squall, which has very nice priority, and can cover amazing distances. Im sure that a fair/key will be able to go through this, so try to predict where they are headed with these moves and make the most out of it.
• Ice climbers' edgeguarding will probably be very different from icy to icy player. They are capable of stalling nana under the stage, although i imagine that this isn't a great idea against gw given the priority of his up b. Ice blocks or bairs will probably be used often against gw, which shouldn't be too hard to work around. Given that they perform poorly off the stage (its risky), they won't be too much of a hassle.
• Combo'ing the ice climbers is... interesting. Grabs are usually always a bad idea, gw's throws aren't nearly fast enough to surprise them, so avoid doing that. Combo's here are probably not going to be that common, nair combo'ing can work, however watch out for the dair.

General Strategies:

• When applying pressure on their shield, watch out for them powershielding and then grabbing you, if they do running shield, this is possible. Also, out of a shielded bair, and squall could certainly punish you.
• I wouldn't really attempt to bucket their blizzards, particularly if they are desynched. This will likely get you grabbed, and even if you do get a full bucket unscathed, its very weak and hardly worth your trouble. Blizzards can make approaching difficult, particularly if you are used to bairs to approach as that will certainly go through it. Work on keeping ranged pressure on them to avoid desynched situations like that.
• Other than squalls, blizzards, and possibly desynched smashes, their approach game is pretty linear. Mainly they will play defensively looking for grabs, but if you play your range right you can prevent this for sure.
• This matchup isn't very interesting by any means, you will mostly have to put a lot of pressure on the icies while on the ground with bairs, and in the air with up airs. Look for opportunities to gimp them with offstage pressure, and dsmashes are sure to separate/kill them easily given the different hitboxes, range and speed.

Stages:

• Your going to want to go with stages that have a lot of platforms and ones that could ruin their recovery. RC comes to mind first, maybe even lylat.
• Probably want to avoid fd, open stages like that.

 

[K 2]

Pit's arrow game is reduced to 0 with the bucket. Don't fall for his fancy arrow looping and such.

Pit has a really hard time killing people, but G&W is extremely light, so Pit won't have too much problem killing G&W, unless G&W bucket brakes (hehe...). His main kill moves are sweetspotted bair, fsmash, and maybe dsmash.

I find pit really easy to edgeguard. Pit usually shoots arrows to keep potential edgeguarders away, but he can't do that against G&W. If pit tries to glide, his options are very limited and you can easy predict his movements. Hit him out of WoI and watch him fall to his doom...

It's all I have to say right now.

 

[cj.Shark]

GnW wins this matchup 60:40
but dont make it sound like it will be easy to bucket our arrows
for pit arrows are actually good for building up damage because they travel fast and get this. its easier for pits to curve them up or into the ground if they see the bucket coming out.
Pit is Midweight but gnw still beatss him out with 2 moves in general. d-air always beats pits u-air. and b-air outranges everything.
For CP pick YI any other map and it will be really hard to gimp due to Glide+UPB to other side of map.
and watch out for pits ledgecamp. if they do this run to the middle of the stage and hold out bucket. personally its be smarter not to go fight pit off the map but rather kill him using sweet spot d-smash or f-smash. or tech chase Upsmash either way killing him off the top is best. and finally. dont underestimate pits recoveryits actually very good your better off just waiting for him to come back.(note the easy smeezy way to knock pit out of glide attack is to go under and UPB it using ur invinibility frames. )
gnw wins the matchup but it isnt any as onesides as the pit vs Mk matchup.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Ah, Spies know about the arrow loop mindgames!

Sigh, very well.
I can already tell that this is in G&W's favor, since the bucket can stop Pit's arrows in his tracks, and considering how arrows play a big role for Pit, you understand.
However, I've yet to think that a Pit would Overuse his arrows to purposely fill G&W's bucket so he can continue shooting arrows at G&W without the bucket blocking anymore arrows, til you unleash it. That's a big risk. Should one do this, I'd want to see this.
Pit lacks range and can be easily outprioritized, and I cant think of anything that can stop the dreaded broken B-air of G&W's. Then again, Pit hates basically every char's B-air in general.

As far as the ground goes, G&W's broken Smashes are even good enough with their range, power, and speed. Pit is better in the air anyways.
Even in the air, G&W beats Pit with those disjointed long-ranged moves of his (I still hate B-air, and even those that spam that pressure me). Pit's U-air will only outprioritize your D-air only if Pit isnt completely below G&W.

I suppose Pit's Ledgecamping game is the only thing he has, yet the bucket shuts down the arrows he can shoot at long range.

Pit does better in the air and may use D-tilt, which launches you in the air, and his longest ranged moves are F-air and F-tilt but even those moves dont have the range G&W has.

Pit has many options when edgeguarding or recovering, but the range and bucket of G&W limits Pit too much.

The only thing that is good is that G&W is light, and vulnerable to early KOs by Pit's B-air sweetspot and Fsmash... But how will the poor angel even reach him?

I'm sorry, as much as I am full with Angelic Pride and love Pit so much, poor Pit just cant perform well against G&W and his broken Disjointed 2-D attacks (Stares at B-air) and decent speed.
I may put this at 60-40 G&W (Tried getting 55-45 G&W but it's no use) but at least Pit has SOME recovery options.

Perhaps you could also help me find ways to stop a G&W, so I can prepare for future matches against G&W?
Hey wait, what is this Bucket Breaking!? Now I'm fully discouraged.

"I'm done for..." *cries*

 

[omegablackmage]

im thinking 65-35 for this one:

☼ pit loves arrows, gw probably does the best at ruining this
☼ dtilt, fair, up b, bacon all really hurt pits recovery imo
☼ bair, key, dtilt can beat most of pits approaches
☼ bucket braking makes it even harder for pit to ko gw, taking the seemingly only good side to pits argument

does pit fail more than ness? or is this a 65/35?

what stages other than yoshi's would be good against pit? rc? frigate orpheon?

you guys should watch the hylian v ky matches if you need any starters for the matchup.

 

[Hylian]

IC's are 60-40 at least if not closer to even. Pit get wrecks worse then IC's and I think that's 65-35 >_>.

 

[sagemoon]

pretty sure this matchup is 70-30 in GWs favor. Pit becomes in kill range at 80% to gw, arrow game is nurfed (but not detroyed, a pit can lure the bucket for a free hit w/ arrows), all pits ground/air attacks have less priority than GWs. Pit cant stepdodge GWs f-smash. Pit cant edgeguard gw very effective, while GW can edgeguard pit very effective.

 

[Neb]

Arrows are still a pain if you don't know how to powershield.

 

[Admiral Pit]

You gotta be serious Sage... Betrayal to the angels, fine... 70-30 for G&W but at least Pit doesnt have TOO MANY matchup disadvantages...

Now about this "Bucket Breaking"... Inform me on this.

What stage is good for Pit in the matchup, and if Pit's general CP is Norfair, is there anything that G&W hates?

 

[sagemoon]

anyone who plays competitively knows how to powershield. We're discussing the matchup on advanced level play, assume its the best pit vs the best GW.

Admiral you're wrong, the matchup is at least 70-30, if not then worse for pit.

 

[Ruuku]

UpB B canceling at the edge makes it pretty difficult to edge guard a good Pit. In this matchup, bucket, dtilt, and chef are deciding factors. Pit's moves have really odd/large hit boxes which usually hit front and back. Pit's an annoying ***** but you can win by staying safe and being more annoying. I honestly think that the matchup sits around 6:4 in G&W's favor if played correctly. I play against the best Pit player in Florida on a regular basis and I have to say that the match is difficult. Although those aren't so recent, look up c.Doc/Danny's videos online he has a sick/annoying Pit.

 

[Hylian]

Arrows are still a pain if you don't know how to powershield.

PSing is actually pretty important in this match-up. Notice how often I PS'ed Ky's attacks and arrows in our set >_>.

Everyone watch me vs KY from Oh snap if you haven't seen it . It's a really good display of GW vs Pit at high levels.

 

[Neb]

PSing is actually pretty important in this match-up. Notice how often I PS'ed Ky's attacks and arrows in our set >_>.

Everyone watch me vs KY from Oh snap if you haven't seen it . It's a really good display of GW vs Pit at high levels.

Yeah, I saw, .
But anyway, answer me this. I thought I caught you jogging, rather than breaking into quick sprints, as you approached.
Was this so you could PS quicker and more effectively?

 

[KY_Des]

PSing is actually pretty important in this match-up. Notice how often I PS'ed Ky's attacks and arrows in our set >_>.

Everyone watch me vs KY from Oh snap if you haven't seen it . It's a really good display of GW vs Pit at high levels.

Don't watch that! I didn't know **** about this matchup!! lol no you played really good. You PSed over half the attacks I threw at you haha.

Btw, Pit's ftilt clashes and has about the same range as all of G&W's ground moves, so getting outranged on the ground isn't that bad. Only problem with that is that all of G&W's ground moves are faster than Pit's ftilt. It's the bair that sucks. Pit can't even SG this move. You can roll, or eat turtle. That's it. Only thing you can do.

You can't bair stage spike G&W's recovery, which I tried like a million times in that set. He's overall just hard to edgeguard in general. Pit can't CG G&W, which I also tried in that set. Platforms are not fun for Pit in this matchup. Don't shoot arrows everytime you knock him away, or you'll end up fillin the bucket, which I ALSO did in that set. Aaaaand use dair. I didn't use it at all, but it's a somewhat safe option and is harder for G&W to punish in comparison to Pit's other aerials.

Also don't fall into upsmash like a noob lol.

 

[Ruuku]

PSing is actually pretty important in this match-up. Notice how often I PS'ed Ky's attacks and arrows in our set >_>.

Everyone watch me vs KY from Oh snap if you haven't seen it . It's a really good display of GW vs Pit at high levels.

KY looked like he had no idea how to deal with G&W.

 

[Ruuku]

Don't watch that! I didn't know **** about this matchup!! lol no you played really good. You PSed over half the attacks I threw at you haha.

Btw, Pit's ftilt clashes and has about the same range as all of G&W's ground moves, so getting outranged on the ground isn't that bad. Only problem with that is that all of G&W's ground moves are faster than Pit's ftilt. It's the bair that sucks. Pit can't even SG this move. You can roll, or eat turtle. That's it. Only thing you can do.

You can't bair stage spike G&W's recovery, which I tried like a million times in that set. He's overall just hard to edgeguard in general. Pit can't CG G&W, which I also tried in that set. Platforms are not fun for Pit in this matchup. Don't shoot arrows everytime you knock him away, or you'll end up fillin the bucket, which I ALSO did in that set. Aaaaand use dair. I didn't use it at all, but it's a somewhat safe option and is harder for G&W to punish in comparison to Pit's other aerials.

Also don't fall into upsmash like a noob lol.

You can sometimes punish B.air with dash attack if it's not timed properly.

 

[sagemoon]

PSing is actually pretty important in this match-up. Notice how often I PS'ed Ky's attacks and arrows in our set >_>.

Everyone watch me vs KY from Oh snap if you haven't seen it . It's a really good display of GW vs Pit at high levels.

Also look up DSF vs Valdens,

 

[Rogue Pit]

Sad match up pit gets *****, all he about has on GW is a faster f/dsmash, and grab release stuff. Gonna have to agree with sage, 65-35 or 7-3 GW's favor. I gotta pick up thee sneak

 

[SilentPinoy]

Ah man this match-up. I haven't really had a good fight against a G&W that didn't have a horribly predictable play style so I was skeptical about the advantages G&W has. But as you guys pointed out and from vids, I'd think this match up is frighteningly difficult 65:35 if not 70:30. It's not so much the arrows and bucket I saw but more that Pit's attacks and movement in general are limited since G&W's are quicker and have a (un)fair hit size. Maybe it just depends, most G&W use Key way more than Turtle, or use the d-throw d-smash over and over so maybe I'm not to informed oh how frightening he is. I have to say though, there are moments where G&W make themselves targets of punishment when arrow mindgames are afoot. Fire and Helmet are so evil. I can't count how many times I've try to spot dodge or even try to dodge roll then find myself off screen the next.

I have on occasion mirror'd the bucket, so much shock and laughter ensues.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Now about this "Bucket Breaking"... Inform me on this.

What stage is good for Pit in the matchup, and if Pit's general CP is Norfair, is there anything that G&W hates?

Bucket Braking is a technique I discovered that allows G&W to survive kill knockback by N-airing and Bucketing. This stops his aerial momentum completely. As long as he knows how to DI, and if he can make himself very difficult to hit in the direction of the nearest blastzone on large stages, he can survive a RIDICULOUSLY long time especially against characters that lack amazing KO power. He can't use Bucket Braking if his Bucket is full btw.

G&W doesn't exactly "hate" any stages. Usually, the stages I'd think Pit does well on, G&W usually has more advantages on. He's just a lot more powerful in the air than Pit and better at taking advantage of platforms. Norfair is probably risky because D-throw is **** due to the narrow platforms giving less room to techroll.

Final Destination is usually a frustrating stage for G&W because G&W likes, and in some cases depends on platforms.

 

[Hylian]

Don't watch that! I didn't know **** about this matchup!! lol no you played really good. You PSed over half the attacks I threw at you haha.

Btw, Pit's ftilt clashes and has about the same range as all of G&W's ground moves, so getting outranged on the ground isn't that bad. Only problem with that is that all of G&W's ground moves are faster than Pit's ftilt. It's the bair that sucks. Pit can't even SG this move. You can roll, or eat turtle. That's it. Only thing you can do.

You can't bair stage spike G&W's recovery, which I tried like a million times in that set. He's overall just hard to edgeguard in general. Pit can't CG G&W, which I also tried in that set. Platforms are not fun for Pit in this matchup. Don't shoot arrows everytime you knock him away, or you'll end up fillin the bucket, which I ALSO did in that set. Aaaaand use dair. I didn't use it at all, but it's a somewhat safe option and is harder for G&W to punish in comparison to Pit's other aerials.

Also don't fall into upsmash like a noob lol.

I hit everyone with Upsmash lol. It's like a magnet I swear.

 

[Snowstalker]

We've just started discussing GaW at the Yoshi boards.

 

[cj.Shark]

i would put it at 35:65 simply because its not as bad as meta 30-70 but better than marth 45-65/40-60

 

[KY_Des]

i would put it at 35:65 simply because its not as bad as meta 30-70 but better than marth 45-65/40-60

I agree, it's not as bad as MK but is an obvious disadvantage. 65:35 sounds good.

KY looked like he had no idea how to deal with G&W.

QFT. No idea whatsoever.