Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[IrArby]

Play Marth

 

[RaynEX]

Vs. Samus: Uthrow uair doesn't work. Nairs don't work. Only things that work:

Usmash, lasers, dair.

When shes over 60ish percent, feel free to spam nair and bair.

Before that laser, don't get dsmashed - and waveshine to usmash. Don't grab much in this match-up. It gets you nowhere.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Or or or

Marth.

Space Fair so she can't do anything in retaliation (completely possible).

Bair edgeguard between the bombs in recovery.

WD back and forth (often OoS) into D-tilt when she comes after you if she fights mostly on the ground.

Grab and then throw her forward and do Fair combos or some other crap and knock her off the stage.

Or or or

Sheik.

Space Fair

Shield

WD OoS into D-smash or Grab (D-throw --> Uair/Fair for combos and killing it really does both)

Needles vs recovery

 

[CanISmash]

noted oskurito. ill try some stuff. gotta learn to be gayer.

i picked up a mini sheik lol if i ever am helpless in the matchup. also noted.

thanks all.

btw rayne so im guessing after 60 cc is void?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I hate samus cuz you cant combo that *****

drillshine->grab->camp combo her (uthrow->reverse lasers)
its hilarious and effective

I sometimes do drillshine->dtilt->nair or uair cuz that can combo her decently... but if they DI away from the dtilt (which they will) comboing her will usually not be possible so thats really gay

lots of drillshines since she CC camps

 

[Falcinho]

A friend of mine kills Samus with uair while she's bomb recovering =P (FJ ff'd uair or FJ out --> DJ uair)

I always play Falco vs Samus, so in never tested it, but o watched some watches of him vs the best Samus player in the region and it worked Oo

But i guess if the Samus player gets used to it, it becomes too risky =S

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Or or or

Marth.

Space Fair so she can't do anything in retaliation (completely possible).

Bair edgeguard between the bombs in recovery.

WD back and forth (often OoS) into D-tilt when she comes after you if she fights mostly on the ground.

Grab and then throw her forward and do Fair combos or some other crap and knock her off the stage.

Or or or

Sheik.

Space Fair

~snip!~

See the underlined text.

When I got to Sheik, that's all the farther I got. 'Cause everything leads to f-air. Lol

<3 Jus' playin'. Needles > Recovery, too.

Smooth Criminal

 

[RaynEX]

I think Samus can CC Fox's nair a bit past 60, but bair is definetly good for use.

 

[KirbyKaze]

See the underlined text.

When I got to Sheik, that's all the farther I got. 'Cause everything leads to f-air. Lol

<3 Jus' playin'. Needles > Recovery, too.

Smooth Criminal

SHFFL Fair can lead to another SHFFL Fair.

And it's broken and has massive range and priority.

You can ask RaynEX all about how good Sheik's Fair is if you want to know more

No but really just spacing Fair so Samus can't UpB OoS on it and so she can't CC D-smash you for it is pretty ridiculous. You can pretty much just Fair her and then buffer block and that will prevent CC D-smash and then if she does it just WD OoS with grab or D-smash or something and then punish it's pretty gay and works really really good, M2K posted about this a while back on the Sheik boards and it works really gay and it's ****.

Or do what Drephen does and just run up to Samus with block and then if she grabs just react and sidestep and do massive damage and if she doesn't then punish whatever she does with WD OoS or grab.

You can pretty much do whatever vs Samus except tilt (or dash attack) when she's on the ground and it'll work. Sheik ****** fierceness is too much for Samus.

Samus vs Fox is this really dumb matchup wherein Fox shoots her until she's at about 80 and periodically does some sort of throw tech chase, Dair shine, or throw --> lasers (D-throw is actually good vs Samus not because it's good or anything but because the best follow from your other throws are more lasers whereas D-throw will sometimes lead to a shine, U-smash, etc but usually just more lasers).

Samus meanwhile will run up to you and pressure with F-tilt and jab mixups and then wd back and D-smash whenever you try to attack her because her WD back is like ridiculous and stuff. I guess you could try to do what Marth and Sheik do with the whole "approach with shield" strategy but then you have issues with not having range and her being able to attack your shield for free because of range whereas she can't really do that with Sheik or Marth as well because of their massive range aerials and stuff. And then if she messes up and gets grabbed there's no real reward except for the epic U-throw laser combo that does like 13% with no real chance of follow-through.

Samus vs Fox is very stupid. Honestly I'd save yourself the trouble and just play Sheik or Marth against her, those two **** her horribly and it's not hard to pick either of them up if you're already good at WD OoS and, for Marth, dash dancing intelligently.

 

[RaynEX]

Listen to KK, he has the right idea.

 

[soap]

some fox help thread... jus switch character. i always liked empty jump usmash for fox samus, it works for me

 

[Rukki]

Shine Bairs with Fox

Hey I don't know if this has already been discussed on this thread as its veerrrrry long, but I cant seem to get Fox's Bair to connect on the shine bair combo, can anyone tell me what to do or what i am doing wrong. I can do it as falco easily but fox still gives me trouble.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Hit with the top of the shine. Jump with up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

some fox help thread... jus switch character. i always liked empty jump usmash for fox samus, it works for me

I guess if I absolutely wanted to do it with Fox I'd platform camp and just remember that her approach options vs platform camping are limited mainly to aerial, doing missile(s) and then crossing the stage and approaching with aerial, and (for low platform stages) getting under the platform and doing moves (u-tilt, u-air, etc). And with that information I'd just react accordingly to whatever she does while platform dropping lasers, fjtling, or shling her from the platform/ground when applicable.

If she comes up with an aerial on a 3-platform stage you can probably full jump over it and Bair her out of it if you space. If she tries to missile camp you (on yoshi's or pokemon) because she's stupid then you can probably just time lasers to hit her as she's jumping up and then drop through so the missile goes over you while the laser hits. If she alternates homing missiles and power missiles then the timing just changes for when you have to jump to dodge the missiles.

And then for edgeguarding if she's recovering low it's probably best to just firefox stall or illusion stall for invincibility until she comes up for Up+B or grapple and shine spike her repeatedly.

If she recovers high you can either try to hit her with something or just shoot her a bunch, wait for her to land, and then punish whatever she does when she lands. Fox is magical so he can do this.

 

[Schwartz_Bruder]

I am ignorant.

What does OoS stand for?

 

[KirbyKaze]

out of shield

 

[Falcinho]

Can someone pls make a "how-to-shinebair-with-Fox"-thread and sticky it >_>
Ppl ask it like every second day =S

And thx KirbyKaze for your informative posts =D

 

[Lovage 805]

first you shine
then you jump
then you bair

 

[Falcinho]

That's what i want to say whenever i see someone asking it

 

[TemPesT-]

wtf do i do against marth on FD aarosmashguy's marth 4stocks me like every time lol. evertime it's like me stallin with lasers and him coming at me with fairs. if i jump in he'll sheild grab, but if i don't he'll get me wtih a grab eventually and that means a stock

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you take the loss and cp your next stage

forrealsies...jump in dair l cancel shine on a shield..then jc the shine and grab if you want..or wavedashback and try again...but the dair shien should be enough...

 

[KirbyKaze]

if you don't miss l-cancel he shouldn't be shield grabbing you either you're messing up a lot or he's like catching you doing something stupid like wavedashing backwards out of shine super slowly or something

if he's cc grabbing you which i strongly doubt but it is possible then just dd grab him or drillshine to grab him

and avoid stalling with lasers ultra close to the edge if you are because then you lose all your room to dd around his range and stuff

i think it's better to dd camp and bait openings vs marth your dd is better than his just abuse that and shoot him sometimes but not so much that you're left open

 

[CanISmash]

if you don't miss l-cancel he shouldn't be shield grabbing you either you're messing up a lot or he's like catching you doing something stupid like wavedashing backwards out of shine super slowly or something

QUOTE]

is this 100% true? cause i dont feel comfortable at all down-airing in front of marths shield, i'd def out for landing behind his tiara wearing ***.

and omg i hate recovering i have no idea what to do ever. stupid mew2king. one evo vid versus p.c. chris and everybody and their momma started countering on the ledge. a year back i never saw it. if i illusion i get poked in the eye by d-tilt. f-smashed or regrabbed if i dont sweet spot illusion its like hopeless. lol.

anyone wanna throw out some fave movement trixies? also its like impossible to dash behind and ur opponent and turn around grab right? marth can do it fine but fox?

 

[brawlpro]

just practice sweetspot, edge tech, and insta illusion a lot more.

 

[Silent Wolf]

sup guys

 

[CanISmash]

i can tech usually, i've even teched counters but stuff like d-tilt you cant tech right? since the hitbox extends over the ledge?

yeah i guess like everything it comes with practice.

 

[RaynEX]

Use firefox sweetspot against Marth. Mixup with illusion sweet spot. Also, if you can DJ and airdodge. Sometimes avoiding the use of your recovery moves altogether makes for a better strategy.

 

[HOO%]

Vs. Samus: Uthrow uair doesn't work. Nairs don't work. Only things that work:

Usmash, lasers, dair.

When shes over 60ish percent, feel free to spam nair and bair.

Before that laser, don't get dsmashed - and waveshine to usmash. Don't grab much in this match-up. It gets you nowhere.

what if the samus spams up b, how do i get my shines in, cuz her up b has so much priority even if i l cancel.....and btw why does her up b eat thru my shield (mostly happens on platforms)

 

[RaynEX]

what if the samus spams up b, how do i get my shines in, cuz her up b has so much priority even if i l cancel.....and btw why does her up b eat thru my shield (mostly happens on platforms)

If you aerial and Samus blocks your move, the up+b will beat whatever you do after that, even the shine. Up+b has invincibility frames, so when you try to shine she just eats your move and keeps going.

So what you really need to do is stop running into her shield first off. Don't go throwing yourself at Samus blindly trying to get random hits. You're alot faster than her, so use your DD and platforms (if there are any) to get a solid hit then waveshine to usmash or something. Remember that if she blocks your moves YOU are at the disadvantage.

Up+b has a weird hitbox, so if you're on a platform angle your shield downwards so avoid it going through. The sad part is, even if you block it - the hitstun will keep you stuck for so long she can upb at you -> drop back through the platform -> have enough time to WD or run away afterwards. Try to stay on the move, you shouldn't be sitting on a platform just blocking anyways. Keep trying to get lasers and dairs in, then when shes at a high enough percentage - start using your nair/bair and usmash.

The majority of this match-up is spent running around her, usually at arm's length - shooting lasers and looking for punishable mistakes she makes. She CCs everything that isn't drill, so look for drill opportunities.

At around 40% you can start shffling uairs to try to land more than one.

Breakdown:

Lasers.
Usmash.
dair.
Use your speed to get in hits.
Don't be mindless and run into her shield.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think you can aerial Samus's shield.

I think you might be able to drill her shield, l-cancel, and toss up shield before her Up+B comes out but I'm not really sure. I don't remember if it works for Fox and Falco or just Falco or if at all.

Either way, aerial shine doesn't work on her shield you'll just get ***** for trying it.

Her Up+B eats your shield because it has a bunch of hitboxes dispersed around her and that makes it shield-stab randomly and do lots of shield damage. Angle shield down on platform or just jump away when she comes after you and then punish the Up+B during its lag.

I wouldn't try to get shines in this matchup, just be gay and shoot her a lot and u-smash her if she does something stupid or if she doesn't then bair her when she comes after you when you're on a platform.

 

[soap]

u can bair shine if u hit low on the shield

 

[LuCKy]

someone tell me something cool to learn lol

 

[RaynEX]

learn mewtwo.

 

[HOO%]

someone tell me something cooler to learn..cuz i already mastered mewtwo =)

 

[RaynEX]

learn to post more.

 

[LuCKy]

lol i was trying mew2 the other day too . . .but i mean with fox >__>

 

[Toobz]

So then basically Samus is a really hard match-up for fox. I gotta say I have a lot of trouble with this, since my brother plays exclusively Samus. KirbyKaze you are dead on with your analysis on how samus plays. Jab, CC, D-smash, Up-B. And D-tilt. I only win about 50% of our matches. I went to a tourney the other day, and didn't fight a single Samus. I felt so free! I was able to attack without lasering and drilling for 45 seconds!

 

[RaynEX]

this is what you do.

1. start game
2. pick Zelda
3. i mean Sheik
4. match begins
5. ????
6. profit

 

[Ndot]

Is there a way to DI out of samus's first uptilt which leads to another uptilt or w/e she wants? When I get hit my the first uptilt, I always go straight up for some reason, or maybe I'm not di'ing correctly, then I get hit. Any way to di out of that?

 

[RaynEX]

I've never actually seen anyone d.i. an otg hit from Samus' utilt now that I think about it.