Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Bing]

Just saying, you're comparing Falco's dair, a spike to Fox's dair, which is used for damage and combos(drill shines). Fox has the shine which is incredibly more versatile in comparison to gimping ability. it comes out faster, can be used as equally effective if using off of a wall-tech. and can even gimp will standing on a ledge,(wavedash towards opponent then shinespike). Falco's dair is ****, but i think that Fox has more options... And can recovery better.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Fox's shine doesn't come out faster...they're both one frame...

 

[Meneks]

falco's dj back to stage with a dair is a real threat against throw -> run off aerial. Fox's dair hitbox and knockback are rather sissy in comparison.
I think falco's gimps take more of a read on fox's double jump direction, and it's kind of tough to force fox below the stage if they re-firefox as soon as they take the laser and they have the option to illusion/shorten illusion after each laser. Runoff dj rising dair can cover lots of firefox angles in some situations though.
Fox's extra length can sometimes hurt him since they have more time to react if you pick a very vertical direction.

Eh, not so much a threat if you're anticipating it.

Predict or anticipate that the falco will try to dair, then punish him for it.

 

[Strong Badam]

Fox's shine doesn't come out faster...they're both one frame...

he was comparing Fox's shine to Falco's dair

 

[Bing]

Eh, not so much a threat if you're anticipating it.

Predict or anticipate that the falco will try to dair, then punish him for it.

ahaha I used to dair a ton as Falco until a few pros *cough Weon-X cough* ***** me for it XD

And about the shine/dair thing, I didnt know dair came out frame 1, but I still find shine more useful

Edit: nevermind, thank you Strongbad

 

[Strong Badam]

I would murder billions of humans if Falco's dair hit frame 1.

 

[Bing]

Yeah that would be a tad broken...

 

[KirbyKaze]

It already is broken.

 

[Bing]

Okay fine, it would be destroyed. Fubar'd etc etc.

 

[Meneks]

Question: Lets say I'm using fox(this is a tourney) I just lost the first match on battlefield against a shiek, where would you take the shiek? throughout the match the Shiek stayed relatively close to the edge and the lower platforms

Considering battlefield is a smaller stage spacious and the shiek is really defensive.

I know this might come down to preference and how the shiek actually plays, but it would be interesting to know what some of you might do

 

[Bing]

I would personally take them to Stadium or Dreamland... but I dunno... dont play very many Sheik's at all.. like... almost none XD

 

[Strong Badam]

PS, Dreamland, FD are your best choices in general. Depends on the sheik's playstyle though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Doesn't really matter. I would just say shy away from Yoshi's Story CP if they're camping under platforms near the edge.

 

[Bing]

Jesus Christ I made good choices. GO ME :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

Good stuff. Although, bear in mind, there was only one 'wrong' choice.

And even then... YS isn't an awful pick. It's just... whoever's better at gimping usually usually gets an advantage on YS. And if you lost to edge-camping, you probably aren't the better gimper.

FoD is actually pretty good vs that style of Sheik because the platforms straight up disappear and then you can play like FD (and she can't hide under them). And when the platforms ARE there, you can often edgecancel her d-throw off them and avoid being comboed. Neat, huh?

 

[Bing]

See David im learning. Now im going to shut my mouth before I say something stupid

 

[unknown522]

Fox and Falco are both great with spikes.. but uhh... Fox has the better recovery... by far... so umm.. hi

that is incorrect

Question: Lets say I'm using fox(this is a tourney) I just lost the first match on battlefield against a shiek, where would you take the shiek? throughout the match the Shiek stayed relatively close to the edge and the lower platforms

Considering battlefield is a smaller stage spacious and the shiek is really defensive.

I know this might come down to preference and how the shiek actually plays, but it would be interesting to know what some of you might do

I'd take them back especially if they play like that.

or go to FoD.

 

[Ryobeat]

Does anyone know a way that i can master fox's shorthop. really stupid question. im a peach main, so im not used to such a quick short hop, but i have everything else down as fox, and i want him to be my secondary, and shorthopping is key with him.

 

[Meneks]

Just try to get the feel for it really, keep trying do do shffls until you can run around the stage short hopping without messing up.

It becomes second after awhile, lol I almost forgot short hopping was difficult with fox, but for someone who doesn't use him its pretty sketchy

 

[Bones0]

Yes its slower, but in certain situations it might be the fastest option for your fingers if you happen to be playing a while and your hands are moist and want to decrease your chances of ****ing up (It happens lol)

It doesn't happen to me... lol If dash cancelling is ever your fastest options, I'd advise you to just keep practicing JCed usmashes more. Vastly superior in pretty much every way (I forgot to mention that you also can't dash cancel out of the initial part of the dash, only out of a run)...

 

[FrootLoop]

Eh, not so much a threat if you're anticipating it.

Predict or anticipate that the falco will try to dair, then punish him for it.

Do you realize that if you replace the words 'falco' and 'dair' with any character and move, it's still true? Why does that mean it's not a threat?

 

[Strong Badam]

Because dair kills you and most others wouldn't in the same situation.

 

[Brookman]

I'm so good at this game...

 

[Meneks]

Do you realize that if you replace the words 'falco' and 'dair' with any character and move, it's still true? Why does that mean it's not a threat?

Because dair kills you and most others wouldn't in the same situation.

Yeah, plus you approach dair or anticipate falcos dair differently from other moves.

If someone had a shiek and did a running bair going towards you, you would do something differently as opposed to approaching a shieks running bair.

Kinda like thinking, "if I was falco, i'd probably dair at this point" or anticipating when falcos go for certain dair combos.

 

[FrootLoop]

Because dair kills you and most others wouldn't in the same situation.

I feel like we're on the same side..

Yeah, plus you approach dair or anticipate falcos dair differently from other moves.

If someone had a shiek and did a running bair going towards you, you would do something differently as opposed to approaching a shieks running bair.

Kinda like thinking, "if I was falco, i'd probably dair at this point" or anticipating when falcos go for certain dair combos.

Not sure what you mean. I thought we were talking about strength of anti-gimp strats. If you predict falco will jump back with a dair then you're not really covering some other options like dj sweetspot, dj airdodge, and jump back/straight up -> recover.

 

[DerfMidWest]

uhhh, not sure if I should post these here or not, but w/e

My fox are nub, please give me advice :3

set 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic35iCDO3pk

set 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G91zDNUTWaQ

Set 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k01ecxZ3eV8

Falco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov_GpUli6bg

 

[rokimomi]

Canada, come to sweet 6: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14064282

 

[omgwtfToph]

Aesir, you use too many attacks that won't hit and you commit to executing certain movements or attacks way too far in advance. Focus on reacting to your opponent better. Do more simplistic and guaranteed combos. Grab him, uthrow and then do a combo. Also hit your edgeguards better.

 

[DerfMidWest]

thanks ^^
I'll try to do simpler stuff I guess ^^

 

[omgwtfToph]

You'd be surprised how much well-executed "simple Fox stuff" shuts down characters like Falcon.

 

[Meneks]

uhhh, not sure if I should post these here or not, but w/e

My fox are nub, please give me advice :3

Learn nair waveshine combos, and while you're at it learn drillshine combos.

Try to fast fall more so you can utilize fox's speed against your opponent.

Play against lvl 1s and improve your techskill wavelanding on platforms, shine wavelands,
practicepracticepractice your techskill

 

[Divinokage]

I disagree with this tactic to learn Fox. You need to just be consistent with the strategy you want to apply against your opponent. Just applying the move for the move is shallow and you don't really gain the understanding as to why it works.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You're making a lot of technical errors (or poor decisions) in your basics. You attempted shine --> WD --> follow but then you'd try to link jab --> grab or whatever rather than just directly comboing into the grab. You try to up smash after the up throw (when he DIs away and techs in place) but then you walk rather than run forward or various other issues (stand in place, etc).

Your teching habits are really predictable... he keeps hitting f-smashes on your tech stands (or you tech roll into his face and he does it). On a related note, why are you f-smashing so much? It doesn't really defend you that well or work that well as an approach move.

You seem to like FJ nair a lot. You should work on figuring out what else you can do with your FJ and SH aerial options. Your game is really linear.

Your movement is really clunky and it's hard to give you advice on what's wrong with your spacing until it looks better. I would say in general you're applying much pressure though. Again, I think your dash dance options are kind of meh. You don't really dash dance into SHFFLs or dash attack. It's a lot of FJ nair and/or grab. Just toy around with your other options. I feel you're just kind of doing what 'works best for you' right now, rather than really exploring the character.

Recovery options are kind of bad. Figure out when it's appropriate to illusion to grab the edge or cancel off a platform. You firefox in a lot of situations where it's appropriate to illusion and vice versa. Don't neglect your other recovery options too... air-dodging simply free-falling to the edge are both really good options.

 

[Meneks]

I disagree with this tactic to learn Fox. You need to just be consistent with the strategy you want to apply against your opponent. Just applying the move for the move is shallow and you don't really gain the understanding as to why it works.

Well, duh..?
This fox looks like its just starting out lol, he needs to have the basic fundamental techskill to APPLY these strategies...

Whats the use of a plan without the tools?

 

[Rush]

I'd like to take the time to thank the Fox boards in showing me have great clawing JC-Upsmashs are. xD

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ok thanks for the advice, I've been trying to figure out how to improve my dash dance game, but I have like the worst reaction time ever :\
I'm working on my techskill too... I've been practicing drillshines on computers, but I never get them in actual play.

 

[omgwtfToph]

You don't have to have superior reaction time to make dash dance effective. Just make it a point to stay barely outside the range of their attacks and let them fall into the palm of your hand.

 

[Wake]

You don't have to have superior reaction time to make dash dance effective. Just make it a point to stay barely outside the range of their attacks and let them fall into the palm of your hand.

Oh god you're evil.

 

[Lovage]

effectively using dash dancing vs. fast characters like falcon/fox/falco is super hard and i wouldn't really recommend new players spam it cuz they're not gonna get that much off of it (new players do NOT have the reaction time/experience to dash dance grab a falco's nair lol)

if you need a strong defensive tactic with fox vs. fast characters, full hop fast fall bair is still as broken as it has been for 10 years.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

shield grab is obviously the best defensive tactic