Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Sinji]

Thanks unknown.

 

[unknown522]

no prob. But since lovage has access to those characters as opponents (hugs/fly amanita), he could probably shed some more light on the matchups.

My ICs experience is only from my pools set vs wobbles at APEX 2010, and Chu Dat (which I lost to both). And then Nintendude when I went to AXS 3 in November, a few sets over time that I had vs kyu puff (rom 1-3, Apex MMs). Oh and a crew battle match vs wobbles in 2008 when we went to TGMGSBCO 1 in Georgia. Also a local ICs player that doesn't come out a lot. He's decent but still gets 4-stocked, but he does decently vs the other top players (probably not vs KK though).

And then for Samus, like a few games vs spaceballs at Pound 4, a few friendlies vs Duck and a tourney set with Rat in 2010 december (went sheik vs rat game 2), 2 games vs KnihT at Pound 5, Watty in both R1 and R2 pools at pound 3 (which I lost) a bunch of games with Wes when he came to Toronto in 2007 and 2 local samus players, but they don't come out a lot and I can 4-stock them with a decent chunk of the cast. I've never gotten to play HugS yet. We both want to play each other but it never happens when we're at the same tourney. Raynex used to play samus a lot, but was mostly flash. He did have some beast combos though. Vwins also had a good samus, but he quit again. I've played Kage's samus once, or twice too (his first main iirc).

But yeah, most of the writeup comes from theory that I had put into action while playing these people.

 

[omgwtfToph]

PB&J: Are they switching you out of the pool or are they switching somebody else (like me lol) out of the pool?

edit: oh what the **** they took me out of it and now I'm in a pool with Jman instead? laaaame. out of all the good players who aren't on that unbeatable (mango/pp/armada) tier, jman is the one I'm LEAST confident I could beat

ok guys how do you win fox dittos >_>;

 

[rokimomi]

vs duck, most common punish vs bad spacing he uses (on me and other spacies) is wavedash back dsmash. The reason you should be more afraid of this one than say peach dsmash is that with poor DI, instead of damage, he gets a hella free edgeguarding opportunity. When you try to make it back to the stage, he's gonna uptilt you, thats a free edgeguard, so try to find ways around that (firefox to platforms, or make him attack you high and then quickly firefox back low or something like that). If he up-b's you out of shield, try not to land on a platform and don't kill yourself over trying to predict where he's gonna land by upsmashing or something, i'd say reset the situation and jus lazer him at that point. If he upthrows you, DI in front of him at early percents so he doesnt get you with bair (or judge based on your percent and how close to the edge you are if going behind him and eating the bair is worth it). If you have him on the ledge, he will ledge hop fair which is really annoying because with bad DI, you cant get out and he gets a dsmash, which means your stock. I've seen lovage preassure him on the ledge and when he gets hit with fair, he DI's up and away, so no dsmash. Otherwise, I just usually try to beat him on stage instead of challenging that recovery.

Kind of all things you will eventually figure out in the match but now you have a headstart into the ****.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why u giving away ur buddy's secrets!?

also, best way to DI samus' uthrow is straight up. This avoids all charge shot BS and lets you simply jump instead of getting hit sooner.

 

[rokimomi]

Cuz they don't work on good players, nor are they secrets. Jus things that will make the **** initially less painful.

He'll still dominate.

 

[Brookman]

PB&J: Are they switching you out of the pool or are they switching somebody else (like me lol) out of the pool?

edit: oh what the **** they took me out of it and now I'm in a pool with Jman instead? laaaame. out of all the good players who aren't on that unbeatable (mango/pp/armada) tier, jman is the one I'm LEAST confident I could beat

ok guys how do you win fox dittos >_>;

Dd grab back throw tech chase edge guard With bair/Nair or dair to set up an easy shine spike. Patience and discipline




Vs. ic: dd and shine exclusively till you kill nana or see good spots to jc up smash. Laser for % but be careful of the wavedash (dsmash). Watch for nana/blizzard shenanigans. Once nana is gone sopo can be treated like Mario nut with a better jab > grab.




When in doubt, spam sidesteps

 

[KirbyKaze]

i wanna play w/ you kirbykaze ^_^

WAAAAAAAAAAT

mmkay

 

[PB&J]

Toph-didnt know they were going to switch you, i actually wanted to be in m2k's pool but we use to live together for a while.

Regarding me vs samus: thanks for the advice. I played many great samus' from Ihavespaceballs to Dj Nintendo to Plup so im not a complete noob @ the matchup i just really hate her dsmash and i think people underrate how good it is just for the mere fact your off the stage with bad di or @ just lower percentage's then normal. Ill be housing with spaceballs and some others so i think ill do better than most people think ill do vs Duck. Ive been practicing alot,first time in a while i practiced so many little things besides just playing people . Apex is going to be crazy. Round 2 pools are going to be insane and some round 1 pools people are using fake tags but the pools are still balanced except a few like mango's and m2k's ,unless they changed it. Fox dittos are so dumb. I honestly woudnt mine being in Jman's pool but we are usually in the same pool like @ rom4 and every other ny tourny i go too. My predections for first round pools are "didnt know this player was that good,hes overrated,samus is on every Tv,and wow didnt know so and so was still that good"

 

[Palpi]

Does anyone have any ganon mu knowledge they would be willing to share with me? I have a ganon in my pool, and I am going to MM kage again

 

[PB&J]

Get ganon to about 30-40 percent until you start comboing him,unless you will get cc grabbed. You can nair grab until like 70 i think,follow your combos and watch out for the ganon fair jab mix ups,try not to sheild grab it.you can shine out of sheild and watch out for his amazing roll

 

[Palpi]

Thanks. I play a little ganon so I know about his fair jab bull ****. I am going to play very conservative, until I see an opening ofcourse ty

 

[Sinji]

You also bair camp and camp with lasers

 

[Druggedfox]

You should play whatever style youre used to, and make slight adjustments as needed. Aka dont camp it up if normally you rush down, and vice versa

 

[PK Webb]

watch mango vs kage at rom4 to get ideas

 

[Divinokage]

Grrr.. Mango.. lol. You can also watch plenty of matches from G2 in my pool since I only fought Foxes.

Basically, you want to do everything to be inside Ganon's zone and what he will be trying to do is put you outside that zone because obviously that's where he's the weakest at because you can combo him and pressure him inside his shield. Obviously, being away from Ganon shooting lasers is an OK position for you too. You can always basically either counter-attack an aerial as he's starting it up with multitudes of aerials or wait until the move finishes and then attack him, just know that it's hard to challenge Ganon at times, wait for the proper timings. And ya when you do get in, try to do your best for better punishes, in our MMs you did a lot of random moves at odd % in which you could've killed me instead plenty of times.. though we talked about this before already. Watch your DJs, you jump a lot when you get hit and also to get away from things.. also watch your fullhops too. Mix-up your tech timing too. =P I'm sure you can do it.

Ganon off-stage is what you want the most, he can't do **** to recover lmao, always go intercept him.

 

[Sinji]

Agreed with drugged fox.

Stick to your playstyle.

Also watch eggm vs kage apex 2010. Kage got camped the **** out.

 

[Cactuar]

Even if you mess up going out to intercept him, he will just try to hug it out, leaving you in a mellow position on stage.

 

[Winston]

Just don't get stagespiked by double jump uair and you're good

 

[Riddlebox]

kirbykaze posting

compilation of samus stuff from browsing the boards & talking to various people

cp fd and then rush the **** out of her shield with stuff that's safe on cc. if she up+bs just spam b as you're falling from it and running up smash her.

f-throw her off the stage if possible.

(idk if this is good but i like to b-throw samus onto side platforms and then either play waiting games or do stuff with priority)

space bair so you can't be up+B'd oos so she has to wd back and then just keep pushing her to the edge. grind her until she dies.

if she tries to camp with missiles then just camp with lasers in a way so you won't get hit (except fd; just attack her 'cuz her up+B doesn't help her there).

up smash oos on misspaced anything (namely f-tilt & jab). don't get too spammy with the shield or she'll grab > stupid samus combo though so be careful and stay vigilant (get ready to roll or jump if you're blocking and hear the grab sound)

wd oos shine wd up smash on d-smashes that aren't perfectly spaced



in ganon fox it doesn't actually matter what style of play you use (within some limitations) because everything fox does works on ganon

just get ready to tech the jab after throw so you don't get throw > jab > fair'd a bunch of times like it's a true combo and other small stuff like that

don't stay on the platforms for long or you'll get ****ed up by his up air

don't roll into him because he's usually trying to bait it by spamming moves

 

[Brookman]

It's nice to see all this comradery.

 

[Palpi]

You should play whatever style youre used to, and make slight adjustments as needed. Aka dont camp it up if normally you rush down, and vice versa

I agree. I usually tend to prefer a more conservative style in tournament. So that should probably be to my benefit in this match up too.

Grrr.. Mango.. lol. You can also watch plenty of matches from G2 in my pool since I only fought Foxes.

Basically, you want to do everything to be inside Ganon's zone and what he will be trying to do is put you outside that zone because obviously that's where he's the weakest at because you can combo him and pressure him inside his shield. Obviously, being away from Ganon shooting lasers is an OK position for you too. You can always basically either counter-attack an aerial as he's starting it up with multitudes of aerials or wait until the move finishes and then attack him, just know that it's hard to challenge Ganon at times, wait for the proper timings. And ya when you do get in, try to do your best for better punishes, in our MMs you did a lot of random moves at odd % in which you could've killed me instead plenty of times.. though we talked about this before already. Watch your DJs, you jump a lot when you get hit and also to get away from things.. also watch your fullhops too. Mix-up your tech timing too. =P I'm sure you can do it.

Ganon off-stage is what you want the most, he can't do **** to recover lmao, always go intercept him.

Thanks man! I have been practicing tech chasing with upsmash and doing more guaranteed punishes. Hopefully my improvement is noticeable.

kirbykaze posting

compilation of samus stuff from browsing the boards & talking to various people

cp fd and then rush the **** out of her shield with stuff that's safe on cc. if she up+bs just spam b as you're falling from it and running up smash her.

f-throw her off the stage if possible.

(idk if this is good but i like to b-throw samus onto side platforms and then either play waiting games or do stuff with priority)

space bair so you can't be up+B'd oos so she has to wd back and then just keep pushing her to the edge. grind her until she dies.

if she tries to camp with missiles then just camp with lasers in a way so you won't get hit (except fd; just attack her 'cuz her up+B doesn't help her there).

up smash oos on misspaced anything (namely f-tilt & jab). don't get too spammy with the shield or she'll grab > stupid samus combo though so be careful and stay vigilant (get ready to roll or jump if you're blocking and hear the grab sound)

wd oos shine wd up smash on d-smashes that aren't perfectly spaced



in ganon fox it doesn't actually matter what style of play you use (within some limitations) because everything fox does works on ganon

just get ready to tech the jab after throw so you don't get throw > jab > fair'd a bunch of times like it's a true combo and other small stuff like that

don't stay on the platforms for long or you'll get ****ed up by his up air

don't roll into him because he's usually trying to bait it by spamming moves

Thanks kk, I am going to keep the jab tech in mind.

 

[omgwtfToph]

lmao know what's fun?

watching kk fox vs kage matches

:D

 

[Sinji]

Anybody uthrow dair waveshine falcon at mid percents?

 

[FoxLisk]

Anybody uthrow dair waveshine falcon at mid percents?

no because 1) it doesnt work if they're good and 2) nair/usmash (no di) is probably better anyway.

 

[Metal Reeper]

When is it good to dair? I can never hit my drills :/

 

[Brookman]

Drill vs. tech

 

[Metal Reeper]

I dont trust Brookman lol. No way its that easy. I rather grab anyways.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Drill is good if their defense involves no active hitbox, them shielding, or low-hitting moves (think most d-tilts).

 

[KevinM]

KK We should play at Apex I've gotten much better since RoM3

 

[KirbyKaze]

Cool. I didn't. But that's cool.

 

[Lovage]

sup fox doods

apex is gonna be legit as ***

i got to practice with johnny and hugo today, and i'm feeling fresher than ever

can't wait to see + play all yall

travel safe!!

 

[Jim Morrison]

D-air also works on people who crouch cancel your aerials a lot.

 

[PK Webb]

sup fox doods

apex is gonna be legit as ***

i got to practice with johnny and hugo today, and i'm feeling fresher than ever

can't wait to see + play all yall

travel safe!!

I have u in my pool been practicing with ice and amsah hope to have an exciting match with u

 

[PGH Carroll]

Yoooooooo fox guys/girls!!! (I wish. Lol) Let's play at apex:D hit me up! friendlies and MMs
This is Carroll btw.

 

[crush]

Falcon dittos (on yoshis)?

 

[Brookman]

I dont trust Brookman lol. No way its that easy. I rather grab anyways.

Hmmm... OR you could try it out for yourself and NOT be a scrub

 

[PK Webb]

Hmmm... OR you could try it out for yourself and NOT be a scrub

Exposed.............

 

[FoxLisk]

holy **** watching the stream

2 things to say:

@Toph **** YEAH rock on

and Javi uses the most insane grip. he like rests the controller on his knee and presses jump with his middle finger, A/B with his index finger, and C-stick with his thumb. O.O

 

[Veetaak]

PC Chris is soooo good