Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Sinji]

So in order to sum this up:
Me: Fox needs be semi-stupid compared to his opponent in order to lose to Ganondorf
Kage: No! Learn to space! What you are saying is if Fox never attacks, he can never win! (???)
Me: I didn't understand that, Fox just seems so much better that he should never lose if the players are equal (hence he needs to run into Ganondorf's ****)
Sinji: blubber blabber blah blah blab blub
Rest of the thread: /troll

But seriously Kage, do you really feel like Fox can lose to Ganondorf when they play equally smart? I think the reason Fox mains feel so stupid when they lose to G. is because they were, infact, playing very stupid (relative to their opponent).

Dude do you even have a passion for the game? If you don't, then you'll see the game difficult. Sorry to tell you but, it's the truth.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Dude do you even have a passion for the game? If you don't, then you'll see the game difficult. Sorry to tell you but, it's the truth.

What do you mean? Like...if you don't have a passion for Melee, that it seems difficult? I dunno, I have passion for the game, and I have trouble...though I don't think that's what you meant.

 

[stelzig]

You ****ing suck navn, where's your passion?

 

[Divinokage]

So in order to sum this up:
Me: Fox needs be semi-stupid compared to his opponent in order to lose to Ganondorf
Kage: No! Learn to space! What you are saying is if Fox never attacks, he can never win! (???)
Me: I didn't understand that, Fox just seems so much better that he should never lose if the players are equal (hence he needs to run into Ganondorf's ****)
Sinji: blubber blabber blah blah blab blub
Rest of the thread: /troll

But seriously Kage, do you really feel like Fox can lose to Ganondorf when they play equally smart? I think the reason Fox mains feel so stupid when they lose to G. is because they were, infact, playing very stupid (relative to their opponent).

Of course he can, once you knock Fox down, you can techchase him to a possible death. It feels like you are saying it's impossible to hit Fox which is totally wrong lol. The theory bros going on you have is not good. A good Ganon can beat any Fox, but.. it's generally determined by your style vs someone's style.. some styles get countered by other styles but its still not impossible because there's also other factors like the crowd, how you feel during the set, how much you are warmed up atm... umm.. your decisions you made during the set... so many things man.. You have no idea.. we are humans after all. =)

 

[Wenbobular]

I think he's just saying Ganon is a bad character that Fox shouldn't be losing to <_< (I agree haha)

 

[Sinji]

What do you mean? Like...if you don't have a passion for Melee, that it seems difficult? I dunno, I have passion for the game, and I have trouble...though I don't think that's what you meant.

What I mean is when you have a passion for Melee, you see the game easier and playing the game itself feels natural to you. Did I answer your question?

 

[Wenbobular]

That's not passion, that's talent <_<
Unless I'm misunderstanding something here ...

 

[Sinji]

Navn tends to post his frustration about fighting ganon. Kage and I told him what he needs to do to improve. But Navn is still not getting it. so I'm guessing that he lacks the passion for the game.

But if you say it's talent, that means I have talent because I explained it my own point of view, but this has nothing to do with me.

It's about Navn overcoming his frustration against ganon.

 

[Wenbobular]

Isn't he saying that you have to be dumber than the Ganon to be losing to the Ganon?

Are we speaking the same language here?

Passion has nothing to do with how well you understand something ...

 

[ShroudedOne]

What I mean is when you have a passion for Melee, you see the game easier and playing the game itself feels natural to you. Did I answer your question?

Yeah, you answered my question. I think what Sinji is saying is that Navn isn't passionate enough about the game to want to improve. But you can be passionate about something without talent for it, or you can have talent for something without passion. Having passion for it doesn't make it easier, talent does, but passion does make you want to try.

So...yeah, I see what Sinji is saying...but not in the context of the conversation.

 

[Navn]

Yes, i'm saying that Ganondorf is a bad character that Fox shouldn't be losing to, but then again the same is true for Fox vs. alot of characters, and it still happens. I think me and Kage agree on some points, but he's somewhat biased because he mains Ganondorf. Sinji is completely clueless, as usual

I wasn't at all asking for advice against Ganondorf. I think he's one of the easiest "serious" characters to play against. I just do alot of ******** **** really fast, and it usually works out for me. When i meet good Ganondorfs, they tend to take me by surprise by their ability to space extremely well and do crazy combos. But then i try to focus on the limitations of G. and it makes playing against him pretty simple.

 

[Pengie]

Anyone that says that Ganon's free should play a few games with Linguini; he almost makes the match-up seem even XD

 

[Brookman]

nah, you just suck

 

[Sinji]

Yes, i'm saying that Ganondorf is a bad character that Fox shouldn't be losing to, but then again the same is true for Fox vs. alot of characters, and it still happens. I think me and Kage agree on some points, but he's somewhat biased because he mains Ganondorf. Sinji is completely clueless, as usual

I wasn't at all asking for advice against Ganondorf. I think he's one of the easiest "serious" characters to play against. I just do alot of ******** **** really fast, and it usually works out for me. When i meet good Ganondorfs, they tend to take me by surprise by their ability to space extremely well and do crazy combos. But then i try to focus on the limitations of G. and it makes playing against him pretty simple.

Sounds like some one needs to get better.

 

[Wenbobular]

He's saying Ganon isn't a problem for him, and your reaction is to tell him to get better?

Sigh ... different languages I swear ...

 

[Sinji]

I said he needs to get better because good ganons tend to take him by surprise by their ability to space extremely well.

Expect the unexpected.

So chill.

 

[Lovage]

Genesis2 was so awesome, played alot of fox dittoes!

Sucks we didn't get to play tho, Lovage. Apex it is!

yeah there's always people i regret not getting to play at nationals




fox players, if u don't go to apex, u are an azzh0le

 

[Sinji]

yeah there's always people i regret not getting to play at nationals




fox players, if u don't go to apex, u are an azzh0le

Don't worry. I'll be there.

 

[Navn]

I am actually considering this aswell. I'm insanely low on money though, so i'll have to make something happen if i want to attend.

 

[ZetTroxX]

Is it possible to cancel the shinehog? I know that might be a stupid question, but I wanna make sure it isn´t - or it is

Don´t know why people aren´t using this technique that much...imo it´s sooo good - and not that hard to pull off.

 

[Lovage]

idk what canceling a shinehog means



but i actually got really consistent at this technique recently and have been using it a lot


it's actually way better and faster than i thought it's hella good

 

[FoxLisk]

LOL the level of masturbatory psuedo-philosophical bull**** in this thread is amazing

i love how a simple 'i think fox beats ganon' from navn managed to spark off pages of lunacy

Sinji is just on another whole level, he either understands something we don't or he doesn't understand anything, at all.

and I love kage's logic: Ganon can beat anyone, in the limited sense that if your style works well against your opponent's style and you're playing better than them you'll win.

i never thought of that....

 

[unknown522]

yeah there's always people i regret not getting to play at nationals




fox players, if u don't go to apex, u are an azzh0le

I'll be there with Raynex. We have rides sorted out already.

 

[Winston]

What does shinehog refer to?

 

[unknown522]

I think it's either when you shine, then WD to grab the edge.

or when you shine and jump, but then you slide off the stage before you leave the ground and then grab the edge.

that's my guess

 

[KirbyKaze]

pretty sure it's the latter

 

[Wenbobular]

Probably going to Apex
I count as like half a Fox main so far <_<

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey Wenbo wanna MM? My Fox vs your characters?

 

[Winston]

^ I'll do it =D

 

[Druggedfox]

Uh you don't have to jump out of the shine for the shinehog, right? You just run turn around shine and you slide off... at least that's how I do it >_>

 

[Lovage]

u gotta jump to do it


run at the edge and shine, turnaround and jump right as you're sliding off the edge

if you do it right you'll just grab the ledge really fast out of a full dash

 

[leffen]

genesis 2 was so ****, really glad I got to play so many awesome ppl lols.

and im no fox main (though im considering using him more) but i'll be at apex :D

 

[Wenbobular]

Man that's awesome, I'm gonna learn how to do it now that I know you have to jump

Pretty sweet that the alternative to messing it up is just having to short hop onto the ledge

 

[ZetTroxX]

idk what canceling a shinehog means

After the jumpcancel - but before you grab the edge - is it possible to jump again?

Sure YOU use it - you´re all mighty Lovage :D But the average Fox player is like "holy crap, shinehog? that´s way too hard" - at least most of the smashers I know think like this...

@Wenbobular: Here´s a small advice vid - you may already know this - but it helped me learning that technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqZQSgu0J0

 

[Wenbobular]

That would've been nice to know before Lovage posted you needed to jump haha
Now that I know you need to jump I can do it occasionally

 

[ZetTroxX]

Ok nevermind^^

E: Nevermind^2 - I got it. It´s possible to jump out of your shinehog before you grab the edge - but there´s some sort of stun - you can´t jump immediately after canceling your shine - but right before grabbing the edge it´s possible. I just practised that serval times...But I don´t think it´s useful whatsoever .__.

 

[Wenbobular]

What, doing the shinehog and then doublejumping before you grab the ledge? Seems to defeat the purpose of doing the shinehog xD

 

[Divinokage]

LOL the level of masturbatory psuedo-philosophical bull**** in this thread is amazing

i love how a simple 'i think fox beats ganon' from navn managed to spark off pages of lunacy

Sinji is just on another whole level, he either understands something we don't or he doesn't understand anything, at all.

and I love kage's logic: Ganon can beat anyone, in the limited sense that if your style works well against your opponent's style and you're playing better than them you'll win.

i never thought of that....

I think I can beat anyone granted I can play really well, Ganon is kinda good still.. if you do the right things, man people are going to drop like flies.

 

[Brookman]

you need quite a few frames to pull the 'dash cancel shine turn around jump cancel' edge hog.

basically, you need frames to enter the run, then frames to dash cencel, one frame to shine, ~4 frames to turn, and 1~3 frame to initiate the jump. if you exceed the kneebend frames before you fall off the stage you will just jump out.

I could try to clarify this more if someone has a question. If you can wrap your mind around it, the overly-complex looking trick is pretty useful, as its one of the fastest wasy in the game to take the edge. I can't exactly think of a faster way myself.

 

[Wenbobular]

It's not that complex
Just be sliding as you jump, and if you slide off before your jump starts then you grab the ledge

Probably going to use this as a replacement for shine turnaround wavedash, if you mess it up you just short hop onto the ledge whereas you mess the wavedash off you're normally airdodging to your doom

Shine turnaround firefox and PC hogging are still useful when you don't have running room