Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Wenbobular]

I double jump ALL THE TIME in doubles.

idk what it is, but doubles makes me jump like hell lol

I jump around with Falcon all the time (although I do it in singles too)
I especially like jumping over the first person and attacking the dude chillin' in the back

 

[Lovage]

yeah waveshine jab sucks **** everyone good di's it now




edit: (vs. falcon)

 

[voorhese]

i just wabeshine upsmash falcon, and for the spacies i waveshine fitilt into a tech chase or wavedash upsmash/shine upsmash (for speed)

 

[Lovage]

against falcon i only recommend waveshine usmash if it will combo into another usmash/bair/uair or if they're by the edge.

if it's not gonna combo i'd reccomend waveshining a few times until it does (big stages mostly) or waveshine grab (which combos into stuff earlier than usmash does vs. falcon)




btw i think uair is really underused in comboing falcon, his weight is so perfect that certain uairs can extend ur combos by like 40%

 

[voorhese]

what about double shine on spacies, if they dont expect it it works like a jab reset.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I really like linking Shine > backwards U-tilt after a waveshine or two so they'll DI away from Fox's body, attempting to SDI the Shines away, but then that forces them to go straight up from how U-tilt works. So then you get a really nice launch. Worst case scenario is they DI the U-tilt correctly and you have to tech chase or link to dash attack / Nair. Which isn't really that bad anyway.

I don't like throw at 0. I prefer U-smash at 0 because it knocks them over or hits them into a position where you can tech chase.

 

[Wenbobular]

At first I thought you were talking about vs spacies and I was so confused

 

[Evoke]

I'm having trouble against a specific Falco.
So basically, he's VERY pressuring. Aside from some mistakes, he jumps on me all the time.
When I miss a smash or I shield, or generally any time I'm on the ground, he waveshines back and forth and randomly lasers me in between. If I jump, he begins pillaring then shine -> bair.
If I'm on a platform, he jumps and wavelands into a dsmash to put me at an awkward angle and ***** me with a bair or a dair offstage. Usually bair.
Although he really likes his ledgehop double laser, which I punish accordingly. Another weakness he has is terrible laser skills LOL his approach for lasering is come rapidly while SHL, and I'll just usmash oos IF he doesn't begin said waveshine sequence which ***** my shield.
Help?
It's mostly the pressure I can't get through. He doesn't leave much opening for attacks.
The only surefire way I can beat him is be Peach and rapid downsmash in a team battle.

 

[Brookman]

It's falco. Just shine and up smash the **** out of it till it dies.

I really feel like, if you can't figure out how to beat this player/character it is highly likely that he is much better than you. Thusly, there is nothing that we can tell you aside from practice your movement and be harder to hit - don't try harder to hit him.

Next time you play him you should take a step back and try to understand how predictable you are. Then, reconsider the advice I just gave you and see if you can't figure out how to play differently.

I recommend watching some jman/lucky/mango/whoever vs. pp/zhu/mango/whoever to try and develop some concepts about playing fox vs. falco. Additionally, they are all excellent sources of inspiration for movement/speed/execution.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Then again, watching Foxes vs Mango or PP is usually pretty disheartening if you're trying to learn Fox tactics LOL.

I agree though.

Also I don't really like waveshine usmash against Falcon at low percents because unless there's this zone from like, ~10% to ~40% (DI dependent) where it's ambiguous whether or not the Falcon will be able to jump out after the usmash, or whether Falcon will hit the ground and tech. so like Lovage was saying I think waveshining to grab, or waveshining until usmash will combo into something else, is usually a better idea.

I really gotta remind myself to experiment with waveshine utilt more.

 

[unknown522]

Ya well here in montreal at least and im sure in Toronto too.. all players below us are bad lol. I've actually caught Bam FH with my own FH Fair, it's so good loll. (I'm guessing he wanted to dair or something)

Edit: This is why we need to play each other more.. well.. Jason said he has friday off last week of April.. so do you think we can drop by then for Friday/weekend maybe? That would be sick.

I'd be down for that.

Also, david just got a dazzle so we can record **** too.

 

[Tomacawk]

if I can get falcon to tech I'm a pretty happy camper
even if you don't tech chase successfully you're in a great position to keep pressuring him

 

[omgwtfToph]

I'm kinda curious btw. Who do you guys think beats Falcon harder? Fox or Falco?

 

[Brookman]

depends who is playing.

super theory bros, IMO is even.

 

[JPOBS]

Fox beats falcon harder imo. its also my personal fav matchup.

both matchups are really similar except falco dies earlier. Fox's recovery gives him a fighting chance much more often against falcon's mediocre edgeguarding. Falco straight up dies from a knee + edgehog at like 60.

 

[Brookman]

who are you playing with jpobs??

 

[JPOBS]

Toronto CA

 

[Brookman]

So you really been to the legendary Hyatt Hotel?

 

[JPOBS]

hells yea, i was in attendance at pound 5.

**** was hyyppppeeeee.

 

[Brookman]

Not the pound 5 Hyatt, this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaz_West_Hollywood

 

[omgwtfToph]

im so stoked right now

this time tomorrow night, I'm gonna be in TOKYO smashing at captain jack's place :DDD

he doesn't really play anymore and I've never met the guy so I'm kinda excited haha. plus tokyo is amazingggg


edit: btw, I meant super theory bros haha. like who do you think beats falcon harder in theory? :o not assuming "perfect" play, but assuming like, consistent techchasing from a fox etc. (whereas falco can't techchase by reaction all the time, etc. etc.)

 

[unknown522]

I'm kinda curious btw. Who do you guys think beats Falcon harder? Fox or Falco?

falco.

70/30

 

[Wenbobular]

I think Fox is worse in theory...he's actually like, fast and ****
Falco is just a fat chicken with a gun
Falco not being able to techchase on reaction is almost irrelevant though haha ... Down-b -> spin2win

 

[leffen]

falco.

70/30

LOL wake up.

 

[_Rocky_]

LOL wake up.

70-30 is a stretch but i agree with him on falco being the hardest.

I'd like to hear your reasoning on the mu though

 

[Druggedfox]

This is with full bias, but I'd probably say falco for now wins this. I'll probably change my mind later but falco can completely control falcon's movement while falcon has a DD game on fox. Any character with a solid DD game has some method of getting grabs on fox eventually, and the fact that fox's tech roll is significantly worse than falcos (and this is super theory bros) means that falcon will consistently kill fox players off a single grab. Fox also has trouble actually comboing falcon if he doesn't land certain hits; stray nairs and such won't lead to combos 9 times out of 10. For falco on the other hand, if you just land a stray hit its pretty much a free half stock if not a 0-death in super theory bros. Fox's approaches can also be a mixture of CC'dd and DI'd (downairs) so that leads to even more ways to fox getting stuffed. Not to say that fox won't beat falcon, but that the punishment game in fox vs falcon is strictly in falcon's favor in my opinion especially in super theory bros.

The fact that falcon has a consistent way of landing said punishment with DD and basic risk/reward assessment convinces me of this even more. Falco's rolls being harder to follow up as falcon, along with having as good of a punishment game if not better, AND being able to use lasers to avoid one of falcon's most prominent assets (DD) to me would suggest that falco does better than fox.

This is just my most intuitive response to the question, but I'm gonna have to agree with unknown.

 

[Wenbobular]

You make it sound like Falcon beats Fox haha

 

[Brookman]

falcon beats fox and falco. Just, nobody knows how to play him.

 

[leffen]

I've never really understood why people think fox **** falcon... falcon has way better dd game, way better punishment and dies later. His only problem is edgeguarding but he has a way easier time recovering against fox than say sheik or marth ( SDI shines = gaining height >_> ). Falcon also has more priority than fox unless the falcon spaces incorrectly.

Falco is another story, you need to learn how to play aggressively if you want to handle that matchup... which many ppl suck at.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Falcon also has more priority than falcon unless he spaces incorrectly.

 

[leffen]

stfu, fox obv :>

 

[Brookman]

Falcon also has more priority than falcon unless he spaces incorrectly.

I had a HEARTY laugh over this post. It was loud and boisterous.

 

[Sinji]

edge gaurding falcon is so annoying. I have to bair him lke five times before he's dead.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

edge gaurding falcon is so annoying. I have to bair him lke five times before he's dead.

you shouldn't find the easiest ledgeguard in the game to be annoying :D

especially when all you have to do is bair over and over without mixing it up whatsoever

i find edge guarding doc to be annoying.

 

[Pogogo]

I feel like im too nub to figure out a better edgegaurd than just bair all dai.

Doc is just an annoying character in general. Hes so smug when he gets you with cape or pills

 

[_Rocky_]

or you just forget about safe, easy edgeguards and learn to shine spike his up b

and feel like chuck norris when doing it

 

[Doser]

Ok, so I'm a nooby fox and I can't seem to consistently start a waveshine while facing away from my opponent. Sometimes I do it properly and other times I just turn around in the shine. So I'm obviously doing something wrong, I just don't know what, which makes this problem frustrating to fix.

 

[joeplicate]

so brookman

are you ever gonna upload those koreanDJ videos?

 

[Evoke]

Ok, so I'm a nooby fox and I can't seem to consistently start a waveshine while facing away from my opponent. Sometimes I do it properly and other times I just turn around in the shine. So I'm obviously doing something wrong, I just don't know what, which makes this problem frustrating to fix.

It sounds like your fingers are slipping a bit.

 

[Cyrain]

I'm having trouble against a specific Falco.
So basically, he's VERY pressuring. Aside from some mistakes, he jumps on me all the time.
When I miss a smash or I shield, or generally any time I'm on the ground, he waveshines back and forth and randomly lasers me in between. If I jump, he begins pillaring then shine -> bair.
If I'm on a platform, he jumps and wavelands into a dsmash to put me at an awkward angle and ***** me with a bair or a dair offstage. Usually bair.
Although he really likes his ledgehop double laser, which I punish accordingly. Another weakness he has is terrible laser skills LOL his approach for lasering is come rapidly while SHL, and I'll just usmash oos IF he doesn't begin said waveshine sequence which ***** my shield.
Help?
It's mostly the pressure I can't get through. He doesn't leave much opening for attacks.
The only surefire way I can beat him is be Peach and rapid downsmash in a team battle.

Learn to quickly shine out of shield. Any falco who likes to do heavy shield pressure will get ***** by this...Particularly if he's not really switching it up and he's just waveshining on you. It's pretty much all I do vs. spacies.