Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KAOSTAR]

combos at lower percents...combos more with poor or no di.

I think in most cases, aka kill percents and peach DI's u gotta make sure u jump on time and not miss the dash from up throw.

I don't know if it 100% combos but it seems that when fox is on point it connects. you just can't waste frames.

 

[Sinji]

okay, this has been bothering me for a long time
last I read, uthrow uair does NOT combo on peach. at least, not reliably.
however, lovage apparently still uthrow uairs her, and sometimes I can do it myself
what gives? is there a percent window for it? or is it one of those "it doesn't combo but she leaves hitstun 1-2 frames before it hits so it basically combos" one of deals?

I have a hard time uairing peach after the ugrab around 50%. I rather laser spam around that %.

 

[buddy]

I like to use the up b in unique ways. For example, I use it to disrupt recoveries. When I did it vs. Eggm he called it "2011 edge guarding". You can also use it to tech chase (up b in a short hop where the opponent is going to become vulnerable - they will either be caught in the charge or be caught blocking in the charge.)

Does anyone know of any videos that offer examples of this? Because for me this just sounds ********, but i trust that it isn't, so apparently something is being lost in the translation, and I'm hoping that actually seeing this happening will clear up what is being said for me.

I understand the part about tech chasing, but the recovery stuff confuses me.

 

[Sinji]

I use to use up b in combo's back in 09 but i stoped the habit.

 

[Brookman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlkaDMiIpys&feature=related

mango does it a few times in this collection of matches. I do recall him using forward b vs. hbox as well.

 

[JPOBS]

okay, this has been bothering me for a long time
last I read, uthrow uair does NOT combo on peach. at least, not reliably.
however, lovage apparently still uthrow uairs her, and sometimes I can do it myself
what gives? is there a percent window for it? or is it one of those "it doesn't combo but she leaves hitstun 1-2 frames before it hits so it basically combos" one of deals?

Yea, its kinda like, it doesn't combo but it does.

A lot of the time, she's actually out of hitstun for a few frames, but the problem, specifically with peach and also ganon, is that they don't have a fast way to get out. Her DJ is slow as balls and she doesn't have fast aerials that hit below her so you can "combo" upthrow into upair based on those facts. and if they airdodge then LOL

sometimes though, if you jump too high and try to hit her and you're not actually below her, she can nair out which is what happens sometimes at low percents.
It gets easier at higher percents when you don't risk jumping into her. Its also easier when they DI (for me anyway) cause its easier to space the upair that way.

so yea, it doesn't but it does lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not sure Uair combos ever if Peach DIs the throw but... nurgle.

I had a point but now I've forgotten it.

 

[JPOBS]

yea it doesn't but i find it easier to space for some reason so i don't get nair'd. thats it really lol

 

[Sinji]

I was watching a tournament with Dr.pp playing on Corneria. Did they allow corneria to be a counter pick again?

 

[Brookman]

I think it was just in that region. They also played on peach's castle and I think green greens >_<

 

[Dark Hart]

NC has fun

 

[SSBM_or_GTFO]

I thought it was because both players and the TO agreed to it?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Mostly just us goofing off lol

Yay accepted his loss by that point and we thought it was supposed to be over before that match(semis so it was bo5 instead of bo3). He just ended up going to Corneria and I agreed to it so it was fine.

I like dash forward waveland(any direction) with Fox. Very tricky.

 

[Dark Hart]

Hey Dr. Peepee

I remember me and malk once brought vilt and foxy to Great Bay, because Bill said it was legal for Malk to CP Great Bay

 

[Dr Peepee]

Bill says a lot of things LOL

and I dunno if uthrow uair never works on Peach or not. Sometimes I feel like I get a guaranteed one on her but it could always be a flub of the DI I suppose.

 

[Sinji]

Every peach player i talk to, the first thing they tell me is that they have to learn how to DI before anything else. I guess it's them learning how to fight fox.

 

[MacD]

DIing is hard

fox is so fast

 

[joeplicate]

omg

the fox boards cultivate a brand of *********** that you just can't find anywhere else on smashboards




That said, I think I finally figured out what causes up-B's to turn around when you're facing one direction, and you go straight up.

There was a thread awhile back (I think Axe posted it or something) which detailed the turnaround frames different characters had on their up-Bs. People were like, "I've done this with fox, how does it happen?" or "How can i do it consistently?"

I noticed that it usually happens to me when I miss shine-upB stalls.


Anyways, here's the rub (at least as far as I can tell with the amount of testing I've done):
If you up B between like 1/4 and 3/4 of the distance that firefox travels when it's going straight up, and if you're passing the edge on a stage (battlefield, dreamland, fountain, and yoshi's all work I think), and if you're hugging the stage, you'll go straight up facing one way, then turn around the other way, and go into fall animation facing the opposite way you started.

So, for example:

^
||
||
||------
||
||
||------
||

if that's your vertical firefox, and the edge is somewhere between those 2 dashes when you pass it, you'll probably turn around. You also need to be close to the edge when you pass it, like within grab-range.


!!!
This is really interesting to me, because it's something that bugged me when it happened, and it's something that I've wondered about otherwise. Test it on your own; I think this is the way it goes. Maybe it has to do with the little flip that Fox does when he starts (or is like midway thru) his up B, some shenanigans happen when he passes the edge in grab range. (My theory at least)

So test this **** out, I'm pretty sure this is the way it goes.

 

[AXE 09]

Snaps. I thought it was just if you touch any wall while going straight up, you turn around lol. Is it more complicated?

 

[joeplicate]

is it any wall? =o

i'm not sure
that would make sense though, since the places i tested it on all had edges AND walls haha

i guess if you wanted to see if it was walls and not edges, you could go to fourside or some other place that has a wall without a grab-able edge
(i would test it more but i can't get to a gamecube right now)

i can't believe i've never known about this before LOL
is this common knowledge, or is it just me?

 

[FoxLisk]

yo what do you mean by turn around? you just mean grab the ledge with the back of your head?

 

[Sinji]

Jab>jab> shine

2:54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOXGjK5Cq7Q

 

[Dark Hart]

I thought the turn around thing was just touching any wall too

 

[MacD]

that's so cool, i've always wondered why that happens

 

[Brookman]

Ya, I always assumed that was common knowledge, Joe. Glad you figured it out tho :]

 

[KirbyKaze]

omg

the fox boards cultivate a brand of *********** that you just can't find anywhere else on smashboards

you clearly have never partook in the melee MU chart discussion


that thread has (had?) it all

 

[unknown522]

combos at lower percents...combos more with poor or no di.

I think in most cases, aka kill percents and peach DI's u gotta make sure u jump on time and not miss the dash from up throw.

I don't know if it 100% combos but it seems that when fox is on point it connects. you just can't waste frames.

Yea, its kinda like, it doesn't combo but it does.

A lot of the time, she's actually out of hitstun for a few frames, but the problem, specifically with peach and also ganon, is that they don't have a fast way to get out. Her DJ is slow as balls and she doesn't have fast aerials that hit below her so you can "combo" upthrow into upair based on those facts. and if they airdodge then LOL

sometimes though, if you jump too high and try to hit her and you're not actually below her, she can nair out which is what happens sometimes at low percents.
It gets easier at higher percents when you don't risk jumping into her. Its also easier when they DI (for me anyway) cause its easier to space the upair that way.

so yea, it doesn't but it does lol

I know that it combos with no DI between a certain range of percents (50 - 100?). With DI, I dunno. I don't have AR or Dolphin to test it.

But anyway, the speed of which you have it do it is tight, but peach doesn't really have any time/options when her hitstun finishes. The only she can really do is to chance trading/beating you with a n-air. Or I guess the Vanz thing where he DJs, then airdodges immediately. That leaves her as a sitting duck though, since you'll land first.

Peach can't jump out of it, since her DJ sends her down a bit first. That's also why you may see peach players lose their jump sometimes when doing u-throw -> u-air.

omg

the fox boards cultivate a brand of *********** that you just can't find anywhere else on smashboards




That said, I think I finally figured out what causes up-B's to turn around when you're facing one direction, and you go straight up.

There was a thread awhile back (I think Axe posted it or something) which detailed the turnaround frames different characters had on their up-Bs. People were like, "I've done this with fox, how does it happen?" or "How can i do it consistently?"

I noticed that it usually happens to me when I miss shine-upB stalls.


Anyways, here's the rub (at least as far as I can tell with the amount of testing I've done):
If you up B between like 1/4 and 3/4 of the distance that firefox travels when it's going straight up, and if you're passing the edge on a stage (battlefield, dreamland, fountain, and yoshi's all work I think), and if you're hugging the stage, you'll go straight up facing one way, then turn around the other way, and go into fall animation facing the opposite way you started.

So, for example:

^
||
||
||------
||
||
||------
||

if that's your vertical firefox, and the edge is somewhere between those 2 dashes when you pass it, you'll probably turn around. You also need to be close to the edge when you pass it, like within grab-range.


!!!
This is really interesting to me, because it's something that bugged me when it happened, and it's something that I've wondered about otherwise. Test it on your own; I think this is the way it goes. Maybe it has to do with the little flip that Fox does when he starts (or is like midway thru) his up B, some shenanigans happen when he passes the edge in grab range. (My theory at least)

So test this **** out, I'm pretty sure this is the way it goes.

is it any wall? =o

i'm not sure
that would make sense though, since the places i tested it on all had edges AND walls haha

i guess if you wanted to see if it was walls and not edges, you could go to fourside or some other place that has a wall without a grab-able edge
(i would test it more but i can't get to a gamecube right now)

i can't believe i've never known about this before LOL
is this common knowledge, or is it just me?

If you start a firefox while you're horizontally past fox's ledge grab range underneath the stage, then he'll turn around.

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

i have a question. whenever i upthrow marth around 0% and I bair him it never stuns him enough or knocks him far enough away and I end up taking a fair or something from him. is it possible for me to space better and avoid this problem or should i only go for uairs at very low percents or what?

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you dash > FJ Bair you can position yourself safely but you probably don't get a follow. I personally think you should just Uair though.

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

ya i try to uair when i can but sometimes thats hard when they di well

thanks for answering

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah, characters like Ness & Peach can dj -> air dodge to get out of combos faster than any other option. it's weird.
if she air dodges down then fast falls she's generally safe from punishment too.

 

[JPOBS]

the firefox turnaround doesn't bother me anymore sine lovage posted that stuff about fast falling asap at the peak. You can reverse grab the ledge from pretty high up even when backwards so meh.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea. ive definitely felt cheated because I up b straight up on bf without touching anything and have turned around...at least thats my recollection.

LOL MU thread.

 

[AXE 09]

If you start a firefox while you're horizontally past fox's ledge grab range underneath the stage, then he'll turn around.

It works on walls that have ledges that you can't grab (such as the ones in his target test stage). It'll also still works even if your firefox ends before you reach the highest point of the wall, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with ledges.

 

[unknown522]

oh. The more you know.

 

[Cyrain]

I rarely view this thread, but when I DO, I always hope there will be an interesting topic that I can add to. Sadly...There never is. =(

 

[Brookman]

I know I posted this a while ago but I don't believe that I got any (any) responses, so:


When you're playing someone who can't DI drills, how good are your drill combos?

 

[Dark Hart]

My drill combos are broken when I play someone who can't DI them

seriously

more free than lasers

 

[KirbyKaze]

I do like 2-4 drillshines then F-throw them offstage or F/D-smash them offstage (character dependent)

Usually if they can't DI multiple drills they're probably scrubby and have bad recovery habits so I can follow with Shine somehow and it's an OHKO

 

[GOTM]

Usually if they can't DI multiple drills they're probably scrubby and have bad recovery habits so I can follow with Shine somehow and it's an OHKO

qft. drill grab ***** too