KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
LOL, how can you have such an amazing combo but still be confused on which way falcon will go when you shine him? Hmmmm.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
JPOBS
Smash Hero
are you catching them directly from the first shine out of the air with a WD grab? if so, thats freaking baller.
if you're shining then wavedashing towards them tho the grab shouldnt connect cuz once they land they can do anything.unless they are jus holding shield the whole time cuz they scurrrrred.
vs no di at low percents, i upsmash, then upsmash again if they dont di/di in. if they DI away i just pressure or guess their jump or something idk make sht up.
If you're fast you can do upthrow shine wave dash out and shine or jab or ftilt falcon before he lands. If you're really fast you might be able to do more things like uptilit but idk. Also if you're quick enough I think you should be able to upthrow waveshine re-grab and have the grab get them before they can buffer a dodge or whatever. Also if you're a mega baller you can do all of the above except replace the single shine with a double shine.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
shine ALWAYS sends them away from u. what matters is what part of the shine u hit with.
when u up throw u must look carefully cuz its hard to tell if u hit on the left side or right side. just practice and u should get it ^_^
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
uthrow shine doesn't legitimately combo into anything btw. the opponent can act as soon as they touch the ground. it's decent enough as a trick on its own though; especially at very low (sub 20) percents on falcon where you don't quite have the percent you need to do a fat GUARANTEED combo
Lovage
Smash Hero
low % uthrow combos on falcon are kinda tricky
i've seen a lot of falcons DI away and jump out before my nair hits them (mostly mango lol) so don't take this combo for granted all the time because falcon definitely has room to escape if you don't execute your followup very fast.
i've seen a lot of falcons DI away and jump out before my nair hits them (mostly mango lol) so don't take this combo for granted all the time because falcon definitely has room to escape if you don't execute your followup very fast.
ZetTroxX
Smash Journeyman
wat do against some ****ing good ice climbers? ;_;
last time i shineshuffled like an idiot, he shieldgrabbed me everytime .__. I don´t wanna lose again this weekend!
but i think spacing against those *******s isn´t that easy at all, i have no idea how to play against them,plz help me -.-
last time i shineshuffled like an idiot, he shieldgrabbed me everytime .__. I don´t wanna lose again this weekend!
but i think spacing against those *******s isn´t that easy at all, i have no idea how to play against them,plz help me -.-
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
While i agree completely, I find this to be really boring... In practice I like trying to be aggro as much as possible. This has seriously been bugging me for a long time; I might quit playing this game simply because of this
on topic edit- can't you do uthrow->shine->bair?
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
ummm
i think poking in with shines of various natures is good, and i think drill is a lot better than nair
but i don't really know T__T
actually, yeah, how do you fight IC's? can someone who knows the matchup well please chime in? if you have FD-specific advice that'd be especially good, because japan's FD-only and all that. thanks >_>
i think poking in with shines of various natures is good, and i think drill is a lot better than nair
but i don't really know T__T
actually, yeah, how do you fight IC's? can someone who knows the matchup well please chime in? if you have FD-specific advice that'd be especially good, because japan's FD-only and all that. thanks >_>
Kanelol
Smash Lord
I have next to know actual IC experience
but people tell me shining a lot is good. and uhhhhhhhhh idk try and kill off nana early because most IC's have a ****ty SoPo
and you won't get LOLFDWOBBLED
Also, is Japan seriously FD only? Cause that sounds like a dream come true.
but people tell me shining a lot is good. and uhhhhhhhhh idk try and kill off nana early because most IC's have a ****ty SoPo
and you won't get LOLFDWOBBLED
Also, is Japan seriously FD only? Cause that sounds like a dream come true.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
FD only, wobbling on :x
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I beat Nintendude at P4 and gave Wobbles a scare in pools (for one match anyway, don't cp rainbow cruise against him if you have no experience on RC LOL) so I may be able to offer some advice.
Practice efficiently killing cpu icies nana at various levels using mainly drillshine as an approach then shine as your only attack afterwards. If your good at JC shines while running it helps. It should basically end with some kind of shine that gets nana off to either a drop off dbj shine nana's dbj or just jumping and shining her dbj. Real Ice Climbers can't make their nana any better in this regard so just knowing how to efficiently kill her really helps.
Camping platforms with bair *****. You have to pay attention to how they approach you when you camp though. But I usually jump off with bair or fall through platform bair while DI'ing away from them. You don't really have this option but yeah...
drillshines wreck them as well. If your consistent with L-canceling and can read openings well you can really easily kill nana or seperate them. My most common combo vs Icies is get a drillshine, running JC shine nana, at this point nana is usually off the stage and you can simply jump out and shine her double jump.
If you separate them, it's really up to you for which climber to go for. If the popo tries to defend nana you can punish popo or go for the nana kill if they don't. I tend to get really aggressive once they are not sync'd and separated since solo grab is much less dangerous and I do a fairly good job of just not getting grabbed in the first place. I'm also pretty good at mashing out and getting the proper DI to escape if they do the dair regrab instead of wobble.
Approaching with shine is great as well. either by jumping in and shining their shield or just running shine. The reason for this is if your running and shining and they try some type of jab or dash attack shenanigans you can often just CC smash/shine them. You can also grab them just fine, you just need to upthrow or fthrow asap to prevent nana from smashing you.
Being that it's FD, I would focus on carefully spacing FJ/DBJ/SH bairs and wavelanding safely away if it looks like they are spacing to approach you as you land. Go for drillshines when you see openings to do so. Don't try any silly shield pressure stuff unless you land behind them. Even then, Ice climber's bair is pretty good and you generally just don't need shield pressure against Ice climbers like this.
Pay attention to the wavedash spacing of ice climbers. You can often shine or uptilt/dtilt them out of approaches simply by being aware of when your in range of their wavedash and standing still. Just look for the cloud puff and react instinctively.
Learn to buffer roll/spotdodge jabs instinctively.
Edgegaurding is meh I usually edgegaurd with bair until % is high enough that upair kills, or shine if they can't overB high enough. UpBs are pretty easy to punish if they land on the stage and you don't get hit.
Sorry for a lot there >.> I think it's all good though. It's a tougher matchup on FD to be sure, just make sure to keep your jump patterns random, and waveland a lot to keep your landing more unpredictable.
Vs. IC's I usually just shine them until nana takes the edge over popo then shine spike popo. I haven't played anyone on Wobble's or chu's level since developing this strategy but . . it works wonders for me.
shffling vs. them is obviously bad and I recommend against it almost entirely. If you do aerial make sure you fast fall BEFORE hitting them or their shield. Especially their shields.
shffling vs. them is obviously bad and I recommend against it almost entirely. If you do aerial make sure you fast fall BEFORE hitting them or their shield. Especially their shields.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
m2k b-throw shines them a lot
tink does too iirc
if you have nana near the edge and popo's not around, it's probably the fastest way to kill them
if you throw popo up, a lot of times they come down with dair so just u-tilt through it and then follow
tink does too iirc
if you have nana near the edge and popo's not around, it's probably the fastest way to kill them
if you throw popo up, a lot of times they come down with dair so just u-tilt through it and then follow
Sinji
Smash Master
Do u wavedash foward before u grab marth, or u dash dance before u grab marth? any advice?
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
They both have their own applications. Depends on what the Marth is doing and what you can punish him with. Dash Dance grabbing happens more often I think, but if you play a fsmash happy marth, shield to wavedash out of shield to grab is pretty common.
leffen
Smash Champion
vs ics: shine-> side b ***** so hard lol, really safe and should lead to a KO from 0% everytime.
esp considering drillshine to jc shine on nana will fail if they dont split.
esp considering drillshine to jc shine on nana will fail if they dont split.
looks cool, but not very helpful. requires a lot of room to use, and they can di the shine away :/ and then if you side b you'll probably just get grab ***** or something.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
FD has lots of room and... I think you could catch them even if they DI'd away. I've been doing it on luigis for a long time, so I'd think IC + DI away is no different than luigi normally, but who knows.
Btw, what does everyone think fox's worst stages are vs falco? I'm curious to hear people's opinions; personally I'd least like to be on FoD/BF, and the three other neutrals I think are clear fox advantages.
Palpi
Smash Hero
My friend plays luigi, but he is significantly worse than me and I land Waveshine -> dash attack on him...he claims that he DI's away, but I am not sure if I believe him.
i always use to do the shine to illusion, but someone told me that its not 100% legit, i can't remember who, but i just remember i trusted them. maybe it was like they can SDI the shine up a little, so they land and have no lag or something.. idk
it DOES work quite a bit, but i dont think its a true combo.
but i'm often wrong
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
as a falco player, i hate fod. i think it favours fox. you get stupid low platform ****, you remove a lot of falco's laser harassment, and it's small enough that you can catch him with huge blastzones. its ****in gay.
I think FD is good for fox, but no one really agrees with me. I think fox's chaingrab more than makes up for falco's combos (and isn't SDI-able, notably). laser patterns tend to be more obvious here, and FH nair can actually work for once because falco doesnt have platforms to hide under.
i think yoshi's goes to falco slightly, DL and BF are probably even.
I think FD is good for fox, but no one really agrees with me. I think fox's chaingrab more than makes up for falco's combos (and isn't SDI-able, notably). laser patterns tend to be more obvious here, and FH nair can actually work for once because falco doesnt have platforms to hide under.
i think yoshi's goes to falco slightly, DL and BF are probably even.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
yoshi's imo.
BF is hella close to call. FoD idk....
FD and dreamland are great for fox.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Why would you say yoshi's is in falco's favor? I think the fact that falco has NO room to move around hurts him a lot... its the dilemma of DL64 vs yoshi's. On DL64 fox can run away all day and you can't hit him; on yoshi's story you can't move at all because fox can ride your ***.
@foxlisk
I thought most fox players said FD was fox's advantage >_>
~Twitch~
Smash Master
kevin cps foxes to ps.
wtf
wtf
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
i think pokemon stadium is good for falco in that matchup o.o
falco has fantastic laser control and can "pick his battles" with fox better than fox can with falco, just like FD - but without the fear of the chaingrab. yet the combos come together very cleanly for falco in every manner.
basically, FD's one drawback for falco vs. fox is the chaingrab. pokemon stadium is, in simpler forms, like FD without the chaingrab - so i think it's in falco's favor somewhat, haha
the transformations are probably good for fox though
falco has fantastic laser control and can "pick his battles" with fox better than fox can with falco, just like FD - but without the fear of the chaingrab. yet the combos come together very cleanly for falco in every manner.
basically, FD's one drawback for falco vs. fox is the chaingrab. pokemon stadium is, in simpler forms, like FD without the chaingrab - so i think it's in falco's favor somewhat, haha
the transformations are probably good for fox though
Cyrain
Smash Ace
I think DL is foxes best level vs. falco.
Worst one I dunno.
My personal worst is FD/PS.
Worst one I dunno.
My personal worst is FD/PS.
I like FD the most vs. falco because of chaingrabs/related stuff and it doesn't give falco a platform to camp under. I also really like YS because the platform heights give you a lot of really good approach options and easy tech chases, low ceiling plus techchase to the top platform gives really early kills, and the small size prevent him from setting up his sub-platform laser tent.
L__
Smash Master
what % can you smash DI out of sheik's jab reset at?
Tomacawk
Smash Master
unknown522
Some guy
yoshi's is definitely the worst vs falco.
Then probably BF or FD.
Then probably BF or FD.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I can second that. The lack of breathing room for Falco is an important factor, but its not as menacing as say, FoD's spacial issues.
The arrangement of Yoshi's platforms are godlike for Falco combos. He can uair/utilt through the side platforms. That level is rough in that MU.
I prefer FoD, Final, DK64, in that order.
Also lol people talking about uthrow shine. That brings me back.
The arrangement of Yoshi's platforms are godlike for Falco combos. He can uair/utilt through the side platforms. That level is rough in that MU.
I prefer FoD, Final, DK64, in that order.
Also lol people talking about uthrow shine. That brings me back.
L__
Smash Master
I must have crappy sdi
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
@unknown and raynex
So you don't think a fox that kept falco cornered on yoshi's has the advantage? I understand the combos are ridiculous, but falco has next to no room to breathe when fox approaches from the right angles. Of course falco can catch fox out of the approaches, but its really hard to maneuver at all.
And FD is bad for fox? Hmm these are ideas that are pretty different from mine... any further justification on either of these would be nice.
So you don't think a fox that kept falco cornered on yoshi's has the advantage? I understand the combos are ridiculous, but falco has next to no room to breathe when fox approaches from the right angles. Of course falco can catch fox out of the approaches, but its really hard to maneuver at all.
And FD is bad for fox? Hmm these are ideas that are pretty different from mine... any further justification on either of these would be nice.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
if I wd towards marth attempting to attack I wd to wave shine into grab or up smash.
I prefer to commit to less while being close to marth.
if u get good at the shine approach you can start mixing shine-fade back nairs then wait for a reaction, double shines into aerial or wd away, shine grab.
its just a good idea to prepare for as many marth reactions as possible.