Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Rubyiris]

ledgehop reverse nair edgeguard is the sickest thing ever.

Discuss.

 

[Druggedfox]

@unknown

It's cool if you don't remember the rest, thats enough to think about I have pretty differing ideas on a lot of that, but getting the other perspective is always useful for learning.

@JPOBS

It is usually a lot easier to hit them with fsmash than it is with ftilt in those scenarios, or at least for me it has been. Idk for sure if ftilt works everytime; I think it should, but I can't consistently pull it off.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

would dtilt hit the firefox in that scenario?

 

[Druggedfox]

Probably unlikely, as if you spaced it with the tip I'd bet it wouldn't hit. If you spaced it so that a lot of your tail was over the edge, then chances are they'd trade hits or something. If you can get a clean hit off dtilt like that... that'd be pretty cool

 

[ChivalRuse]

ledgehop reverse nair edgeguard is the sickest thing ever.

Discuss.

Dat ain't Sheik.

 

[Silent Wolf]

i can never hit down angled firefoxes to the ledge with Ftilt. is it supposed to be possible?

its actually very reliable. the trick is to start it earlier than you think youd have to.

It is usually a lot easier to hit them with fsmash than it is with ftilt in those scenarios, or at least for me it has been. Idk for sure if ftilt works everytime; I think it should, but I can't consistently pull it off.

you prob shouldnt try and smash as an edge guard, cuz if they end up going high you wont be able to catch them.



if not ftilt, do run off, fast fall, shine turn around bair to cover the low option (make sure to auto cancel it), then be ready to run and do another bair or somethin to cover the high option. you have to get used to knowing when theyre too close to cover all options like this. if theyre too close just go hit them out of their firefox.

 

[Druggedfox]

Depending on their location there's enough time to fsmash and still follow up =P But if you can consistently land ftilt without it trading, that works; how consistent are you with it?

 

[PB&J]

druggedfox-just saw u vs fullmetal..we must play again..cant be having that..call me son

 

[ChivalRuse]

DFox vs FullMetal was a dumb set. I hate it when Marth gambles.

 

[earla]

i know to mix up techs.

1. vs falcon, which is the safest tech out of his down throw at low %'s?(which one leaves him with least deadly follow ups if read)

2. what are some general tips on how to avoid getting grabbed?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Any tech decision can get you punished hard. It just depends on how good the Falcon is at punishing certain tech patterns, which varies greatly.

If you don't want to get grabbed, don't nair predictably and don't just sit there in shield either.

 

[ViciousEnd]

i can never hit down angled firefoxes to the ledge with Ftilt. is it supposed to be possible?

I think you just need to put your foot out a little further. Super spacing it often doesn't let your hitbox cover enough of the area they will be in to edge guard outside of strict timing.

 

[Tomacawk]

i know to mix up techs.

1. vs falcon, which is the safest tech out of his down throw at low %'s?(which one leaves him with least deadly follow ups if read)

2. what are some general tips on how to avoid getting grabbed?

1. if you tech to the edge and get knee'd, I'd say that's about the worst possible scenario
2. space well, stay mobile, don't get read

 

[JPOBS]

don't nair into falcon's dash dance a lot/ever.

 

[Palpi]

I forget about missing techs when getting tech chased. It is a great option sometimes.

 

[unknown522]

i know to mix up techs.

1. vs falcon, which is the safest tech out of his down throw at low %'s?(which one leaves him with least deadly follow ups if read)

2. what are some general tips on how to avoid getting grabbed?

just don't shield. For the love of God

 

[unknown522]

oops, double post (forgot to edit):

@unknown

It's cool if you don't remember the rest, thats enough to think about I have pretty differing ideas on a lot of that, but getting the other perspective is always useful for learning

true. We have different experiences.

druggedfox-just saw u vs fullmetal..we must play again..cant be having that..call me son

Man, I was so heart-broken after watching that.

Ah well. Druggie will get em next time.

 

[FoxLisk]

just dont shield against falcon. you almost never need to, and when you do need to you probably just made a different mistake that you should avoid in the future. when you're scared, full hop to a platform or something. falcon is bad and can't pressure fox if you're faster than he is.

 

[unknown522]

uhhhh

if you fh onto a platform vs falcon

won't he just **** you with uairs? they kind of like... beat your whole moveset in that position.

i tend to think getting above falcon willingly is bad with most characters.

oh yeah this is kirbykaze lolol but i'm too lazy to log out of unknown's account

 

[omgwtfToph]

well, it's not like you just jump onto the platform and stay there - ideally you'd waveland or come down with an aerial or do something to put yourself in a situation where you won't get grabbed. I think it's more about staying mobile because that's what falcon doesn't want you to do.

getting on a platform and then shielding isn't too bad either. :x

 

[ChivalRuse]

Going on platforms is dumb vs Falcon.

I hear stuffing Falcon approaches with SH bair is pretty good.

Or just bair him however you want.

 

[Druggedfox]

Uhh anybody who saw me vs fullmetal... Idk I suck at this game in tournament

Btw, has anybody been trying to really implement shield dropping? Recently I've been able to consistently punish people aerialing my shield on a platform by shield dropping to shine/bair.

 

[Brookman]

Sounds like a really noble cause. I will definitely attempt to implement this now that you have brought it up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ

to skip all the boring stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ&t=2m56s
------------
On a similar note: JC shine out of shield > wavedash. Anyone?

-----------
Another thing I want to point out as being simply amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB1-6sHfDcg&t=1m30s
Mango hits him with a nair and then short hops a shine and air dodges to the ground our of the mid air shine.

Absolutely amazing.

 

[Druggedfox]

Yup, pretty much like that. Its honestly more abusable with other characters than it is with fox imo, but its still pretty freaking useful when marth uptilts you under a platform and I just shield drop dair-->whatever through.

 

[ChivalRuse]

On a similar note: JC shine out of shield > wavedash. Anyone?

Paging Replicate.

 

[FoxLisk]

i mean. if the falcon reads that yuo're gonna jump to that platform he can just uair you but if you just fh to the platform and run up to the top platform you're probably safe. but if he was gonna do that anyway, you weren't in much danger of being grabbed

yes it was an oversimplified answer. but the question was too broad and vague to give a great answer to. there's a counter to everything, and if you're stuck in shield and not mobile against CF, staying immobile is never good.

 

[Brookman]

who here can do the perfect ledge dash consistently??

 

[omgwtfToph]

Me if it's not terribly cold. :x

I think one thing that REALLY helped me get it down, was to focus on making the gap between the "down" input, and your doublejump, as SMALL as possible - while making the "down" input as pronounced as possible, so that you don't get a sakurai jump (which is what japanese players call the ****ty jump from the ledge - as in, you tried to ledgedash, you ****ed up and got the ****ty ledge jump, so you mutter "...sakurai" cuz sakurai is a ****** LOL)

 

[KAOSTAR]

Uhh anybody who saw me vs fullmetal... Idk I suck at this game in tournament

Btw, has anybody been trying to really implement shield dropping? Recently I've been able to consistently punish people aerialing my shield on a platform by shield dropping to shine/bair.

If you shield drop FF after marths uptilts I think you can punish with an aerial if you are close enough.

I mainly still use them as movement techniques, Im still working on doing better oos on the ground, right now shield dropping out of hitstun is too hard.

Im still really bad at recognizing the amount of shield stun certain moves have.

 

[Brookman]

I'm fairly certain that, if you're playing vs. a good marth, shield dropping an aerial would be just as bad as hitting with an aerial any other time (read: CC) it's not even that difficult to CC a hit on reaction even if you're not expecting to be hit (shield dropping is uncommon.)

@mew2 guy: to learn timings, buffer jump with cstick in shield stun.

 

[Palpi]

Uhh anybody who saw me vs fullmetal... Idk I suck at this game in tournament

Btw, has anybody been trying to really implement shield dropping? Recently I've been able to consistently punish people aerialing my shield on a platform by shield dropping to shine/bair.

First game..first few stocks you looked sexy as ****....not gonna lie...no homo

 

[KAOSTAR]

@Brookman-Situational like so many things in this game. I was mainly pointing out that you can get down fast enough from shielding an uptilt, and punish the ending-startup lag of another one. If it can be consistently done, Im not sure if its guaranteed or not yet, but if it can be done then Marth has another thing to worry about when spamming uptilts under platforms. Now he has to position himself correctly as well.

Ill give the buffer C stick a try to see if it helps me learn the timings better.

 

[Tomacawk]

brookman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oDrL9AfM4#t=6m57s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQKdIucGpYg#t=0m54s

 

[ChivalRuse]

What is this shield dropping nonsense? I prefer to just spotdodge the u-tilt and then drop through the platform normally. 2006 tactics FTW.

Oh wait. Marths wait for spotdodges now. Yeah ... I'm screwed.

 

[KAOSTAR]

spotdodging is generally slower than acting directly out of shield anyway

 

[ChivalRuse]

Not if you spotdodge such that the latter frames of invincibility are utilized in avoiding the move. Additionally, there is no hitlag to speak of.

Let me clarify, though, that I am in no way condoning the aforementioned tactic.

 

[Druggedfox]

Marth's can't CC my dair or my shine

@Palpi
Thanks a bunch, I like to think thats how my fox normally looks when it doesn't choke etc etc

Toph, what motion do you use for ledgedashing? I use a sort of quarter circle from down to forward while just inputting the normal wavedash buttons.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Marth's can't CC my dair or my shine

Feel me lol

Not if you spotdodge such that the latter frames of invincibility are utilized in avoiding the move. Additionally, there is no hitlag to speak of.

Let me clarify, though, that I am in no way condoning the aforementioned tactic.

I tried to take care of all that with the word generally. There are exceptions for sure, Melee is situational.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Depending on their location there's enough time to fsmash and still follow up =P But if you can consistently land ftilt without it trading, that works; how consistent are you with it?

word. ftilt is just fast and all you have to do afterward is preemptively go after them and bair right in front of their up b. idk, i dont really use it tbh. i usually get on the ledge and do low bair then cover the higher options afterward. when i used try it it usually worked i think. just try it lol

 

[omgwtfToph]

Toph, what motion do you use for ledgedashing? I use a sort of quarter circle from down to forward while just inputting the normal wavedash buttons.

Yup, same here. then I just put the most attention into the timing of when I jump.

Although, in tournament if I'm feeling shaky, I shine before the ledgedash like Lucky always does.