Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[(*Jman*)]

i aways keep it simple and just up smash/grab right away after the first waveshine..call me old fashioned but i think thats the best way so u dont mess up lil dumb ****

 

[Brookman]

i aways keep it simple and just up smash/grab right away after the first waveshine..call me old fashioned but i think thats the best way so u dont mess up lil dumb ****

This. There's so much more you can do as fox against falcon. It's not like waveshining is the sole reason he is ahead in the match up.


Aside from that:

Watching m2k vs. scar at rom3 he just shined scar accross the stage e'ry time. Scar said he takes the soul out of the game or something like that.

 

[Silent Wolf]

well if you can waveshine them consistently, which isnt all that hard honestly, i think you should do it every time. yea, theres more you can do on falcon, but that can be done after you waveshine him 4 times. throwing multiples drills in there is way too risky tho.

 

[PK Webb]

i c, jman if ur going to no johns we need to play a bunch of friendlies and talk smash

 

[JPOBS]

waveshining across the stage isnt really hard tbh. i petty much agree with SW. waveshine as much as possible, and then do more stufff.

 

[(*Jman*)]

well i think its just a ec coast thing.. we play sample as ****

 

[Doser]

Watching m2k vs. scar at rom3 he just shined scar accross the stage e'ry time. Scar said he takes the soul out of the game or something like that.

Is there any chance that this is on youtube?

 

[Brookman]

zero . ya shooda gawn ta rawm.

 

[PB&J]

yeah..wave shine to dsmash is best option for falcon/ganon

 

[joeplicate]

upsmash combos are LEGIT against falcon

if you connect the first upsmash from upthrow, you can get two or three more off (depending on DI) guaranteed

i feel like it's better against falcon on FD than waveshining > dsmash off, since after 2/3/4 upsmashes you can get an upair and then bair, and then edgeguard


i'm calling u all noobs who say waveshine is ALWAYS the best option
yea i said it lol

for real though
learn how to let gravity do all the work for you
upsmash fa dayz

 

[Lovage]

yah

i wouldn't waveshine dsmash on the edge until like....after 50% at least

before mid-percent they're likely to just sweetspot with their double jump, and you would have been better off getting them into the air where they're more likely to come back with a knee/nair (which you can stuff with bair)

 

[Silent Wolf]

yah

i wouldn't waveshine dsmash on the edge until like....after 50% at least

before mid-percent they're likely to just sweetspot with their double jump, and you would have been better off getting them into the air where they're more likely to come back with a knee/nair (which you can stuff with bair)

yea thats what i said. if its under 60 i do usmash tho

 

[FoxLisk]

waveshine to the ledge -> usmash should **** super hard though. if they DI off they're ****ed and if they DI in they're combo bait

 

[KirbyKaze]

shine shine shine turn u-tilt vs darkrain is pretty boss

 

[joeplicate]

waveshine to the ledge -> usmash should **** super hard though. if they DI off they're ****ed and if they DI in they're combo bait

hmm that's not a bad idea


what % does upsmash stop linking to bair? 60, 70?

the thing is, at that point, you could dsmash, which gives them a lot more space to work with

if you do it at like 40 or 50, they'd fly midway up, then you can get a back air to send them off the edge. bair sends them at a higher angle, though, so you'd have to be really alert to when they use their jump; they could go over you.

the other option with an upsmash on the edge, i guess, is if they DI towards the level, then you could get an upair, maybe another upair on the platform, and then bair and do a high edgeguard.

i guess what seems weird about upsmashing at mid percents is the space that they're left with to recover. they're not super close like a dsmash edgeguard, so you can't shine them away or use your invincibility from grabbing the edge to kill them, but they're not far like a high bair edgeguard, where you can space bair to beat out any of their moves. if you upsmash and they DI away at that percent, i'd be afraid of getting double-jump kneed when i tried to go out there.

really cool idea though. love that theory craftin




also s2j does this really gay thing where he'll use his jump and throw out a knee to protect himself, then grab the edge right as the knee ends. i'm afraid of getting strong kneed, and the weak knee is usually big enough to interrupt a lot of my attacks. if it trades with nair or something at high percent, i get knocked away and he'll upB back onto the edge.

can you guys think of any counters for this?



also, dam
my posts are borderline unreadable
i'll start formatting better lol

 

[PB&J]

idk, sometimes i dsmash and sometimes i upsmash for more percent. it all depends how their di is and what percent they are

 

[Tomacawk]

maybe ftilt will work there, joe
or you could just laser him and get some %
that does sound super gay though...
I think the best punish would be to take stage control and put your back to him outside of ledge hop nair/ knee/uair range
utilt/bair/grab/usmash whatever he does to get back

 

[Sinji]

I discovered something against peach.

If your playing on Yoshi's story and ur in the middle of the stage and peaches percentage is around 60-65% u can short hop uair then waveland on the top platform>upsmash.

 

[Brookman]

does it kill??? if not its not really woth the risk of short hop up air. I'll fux with it though.


(not that i play any peach players :< )


**** down smash, turn around up smash all the ****ing way. That move is ridiculous.

 

[Palpi]

You can do the up air to punish a whiffed down smash from teh peach.

 

[Brookman]

just looking at the percents again, of course it kills. XD

up tilt leads to up airs around similar percents and definitely kill and can be combod into more easily.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

upair to waveland upsmash combos? or is it just a semi combo in that peach doesnt really have a way to deal with it becuz she sucks at getting down.

 

[Winston]

@ joeplicate

do you not have time to run off and shine turnaround firegrab the edge?

 

[Sinji]

does it kill??? if not its not really woth the risk of short hop up air. I'll fux with it though.


(not that i play any peach players :< )


**** down smash, turn around up smash all the ****ing way. That move is ridiculous.

Yea it kills. Since peach is a floaty character it will be hard for her touch the ground again. Thats where the usmash comes in.

I noticed this after watching m2k vs armada at pound 4.

 

[voorhese]

i think that uair shine shield pressure on floaties is legit

 

[Sinji]

i think that uair shine shield pressure on floaties is legit

its legit. I found out that it also works against ganon.

 

[(*Jman*)]

really i aways thought peach could just nair oos after the shine

 

[voorhese]

well i dont get to play many peaches....so i wouldnt know =(

 

[KirbyKaze]

on uair shine:

she can nair

she can grab

both after the shine

*up+bs*

 

[joeplicate]

@ joeplicate

do you not have time to run off and shine turnaround firegrab the edge?

under what circumstances, for the weak knee recovery?

not really, since it hits above the level and will smack you if you try running in too late. you could do it earlier, but then falcon could adjust his fast fall to land back on the stage. (the way johnny usually does it involves fast fall, aerial control, and timing his jump)


i like the idea of an ftilt, but i think it would trade still....?

maybe the best idea is to just wait for it if you think it's coming, and then double jump and come back down on it with a bair or a shine. it's pretty fast though.

or if you think it's coming, you could run underneath, use your shield to stop at the edge (and maybe even angle it up so it hits high), shield the knee then shine oos

hmm! interesting

 

[CanISmash]

joey as far as falcon kneeing and recovering I use to do that a lot when i played falcon but b-air definitely beats that. as do a few spaced attacks

 

[omgwtfToph]

or if you think it's coming, you could run underneath, use your shield to stop at the edge (and maybe even angle it up so it hits high), shield the knee then shine oos

hmm! interesting

that doesn't really work that well (or so it seems, to me). the best counters I've found are to FJ nair and kind of land on Falcon's head, if that makes sense, which will always beat out the knee's hitbox... and to SH fair, actually o_O you just have to poke him with one of the hits of the fair, from the stage, and you can just run out and shine him immediately.

I'm assuming SH bair works just the same, but sometimes you might not even have enough time to turn around, hence fair. plus fair leads to a very easy shine gimp

 

[Sinji]

I have a question. After a moonwalk, what move would be better suited for a floaty character. I noticed that Mango uses a bair against peach but I just want to be sure.

 

[PK Webb]

bair definitely since they will be behind u....hell i think bair shud be used generally more than nair but thats just me =/

 

[ViciousEnd]

That's if you are even using moonwalks to outspace floaty characters. Honestly, the speed you have over them is your primary advantage, and while moonwalking provides a cute mix up, I feel like you are better off abusing your superior mobility to gain the upper hand rather than getting a single hit.

 

[Rubyiris]

moonwalk or bust.

 

[Sinji]

What do you do if falcos spamming lasers at you and hes covering all your options?

 

[RaynEX]

I have a question. After a moonwalk, what move would be better suited for a floaty character. I noticed that Mango uses a bair against peach but I just want to be sure.

bair definitely since they will be behind u....hell i think bair shud be used generally more than nair but thats just me =/

And this, gentlemen, is the future of smash.

 

[Brookman]

What do you do if falcos spamming lasers at you and hes covering all your options?

you need to learn more options then.

 

[FoxLisk]

^^ this!

unhelpful aphorisms ftw