Silent Wolf
...
i told him to put orbulon lol
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Cool matches.
Otto needs to calm down. Too much style on battlefield for my eyes. Same for my love(age) on FoD in between stocks.
Otto needs to calm down. Too much style on battlefield for my eyes. Same for my love(age) on FoD in between stocks.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
silent wolf
explain to us why you decided to withheld these videos from our eyes for so long
explain to us why you decided to withheld these videos from our eyes for so long
Silent Wolf
...
i was gonna have someone remove the ugly at the bottom and never got around to it. then i forgot about them. then oscar talked about fox dittos and i was like aw yeah
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
definitely. too much style. uthrow shine waveland usmash is unreasonable.
also lovage's shine OoS skills are remarkable. good games, guys.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I came multiple times while watching those videos.
Silent Wolf
...
too bad me vs colbol wasnt recorded.
Winston
Smash Master
Agreed, but if they land in front of you then it's hard to combo it right? I get the impression that turning around takes a couple of frames.
It does if you do it right but if you are doing it right you could be drill -> usmashing instead since they're both frame 7. I'm pretty sure the way most people do drill -> grab, the opponent can buffer roll out. I'm wondering if crouch accomplishes the same thing.
I was thinking in the common situation where you grab a space animal on edge of the platform bthrow might be a good option since uthrow is hard to follow up sometimes with no space to run.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
calling into work is such a nerve racking experience.
so I have a question for SW/Lovage. I noticed in those vids you guys seemed to be caught up with trying to move fast as opposed to making the best decision...were you "in the zone", trying to intimidate your opponent, didn't care because you were trying to be flashy, or other?
I used to find myself in similar situations, where I would get some confidence after a combo and start going berserk (kind of like lucky did vs m2k at ROM)
basically, what is everyone's opinion on this mindset?
I think it has its place, but as of late I find myself being a sort of "tactician" in the sense that I've slowed down my game considerably and increased the bair frequency by probably 25%
also I've been working on jc shines out of the initial dash as an approach/punish
do you guys think this is viable? I'm not quite to the consistency that I can ws jc usmash marth every time, but I'm getting there
I'm not the best fox player in here (far from it), but I should be able to help a lot of you.
waveshine oos...after having a period where I was hitting it at least 50% of the time, I find myself unable to do it for the large part. I always grab or short hop dair (does this mean I'm hitting A and hitting B too fast, respectively? When I shffl dair I, I DO manage to hit B)...what can I do to slow my hands down? That last question probably has no answer. I've tried using up; it just isn't the same (I use up with falco)
lastly, does anybody have a certain matchup they need help with? I'm in the mood to right up a matchup rant.
edit-I could critique some videos if someone would like.
so I have a question for SW/Lovage. I noticed in those vids you guys seemed to be caught up with trying to move fast as opposed to making the best decision...were you "in the zone", trying to intimidate your opponent, didn't care because you were trying to be flashy, or other?
I used to find myself in similar situations, where I would get some confidence after a combo and start going berserk (kind of like lucky did vs m2k at ROM)
basically, what is everyone's opinion on this mindset?
I think it has its place, but as of late I find myself being a sort of "tactician" in the sense that I've slowed down my game considerably and increased the bair frequency by probably 25%
also I've been working on jc shines out of the initial dash as an approach/punish
do you guys think this is viable? I'm not quite to the consistency that I can ws jc usmash marth every time, but I'm getting there
I'm not the best fox player in here (far from it), but I should be able to help a lot of you.
waveshine oos...after having a period where I was hitting it at least 50% of the time, I find myself unable to do it for the large part. I always grab or short hop dair (does this mean I'm hitting A and hitting B too fast, respectively? When I shffl dair I, I DO manage to hit B)...what can I do to slow my hands down? That last question probably has no answer. I've tried using up; it just isn't the same (I use up with falco)
lastly, does anybody have a certain matchup they need help with? I'm in the mood to right up a matchup rant.
edit-I could critique some videos if someone would like.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I think they were just having fun haha
Fox dittos played to win can be really boring ¬.¬
Slowing your game down is probably the best way to go if you haven't integrated "being fast" to the point where you can play that way without having to think about the inputs
Otherwise you'll be to focused on hitting your tech skill as opposed to focusing on your opponent
Fox dittos played to win can be really boring ¬.¬
Slowing your game down is probably the best way to go if you haven't integrated "being fast" to the point where you can play that way without having to think about the inputs
Otherwise you'll be to focused on hitting your tech skill as opposed to focusing on your opponent
Palpi
Smash Hero
Tomacawk
Smash Master
it isn't that I focus on tech skill, it's that in order to "keep moving" I cannot possibly react to everything my opponent does. I start to play solely on prediction and I always make the first move.
dangerous indeed
dangerous indeed
Silent Wolf
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i cant say for sure. i can say that we played that set right after trying a bunch of 2 man tech routines so we were def in tech mode. (idk bout lovage, he was using falco for all the routines) i think thats just how i play in fox dittos. i just try to play fast and keep it pretty safe. i think its good to try and play fast and do the right thing aka get used to it. i think playing near as fast as possible is more effective in a match up where the opposition is also a fast character. there is a lot of stuff you have to do very fast in all match ups for it to be effective tho, but those are more like punishes than positioning and stuff. i think its just good in general to be able to be fast with your character vs anyone, playing fast doesnt mean you have to sacrifice some of your mental game. it would probably help to start out playing slower, so you actually know what youre doing by the time you go fast, thus not sacrificing too much mental
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i'd also probabaly say that if you only played slow most of the time, if it came to having to suddenly speed up, you'd have a really hard time adjusitng your play to go faster without sacrificing a lot of mental activity initially and you'd play almost entirely through just your reflex arc/muscle memory.
conversely, if you played extremely fast most of the time, your information processing, smooth pursuit, tetanic stimulations, and reflexes would naturally be higher because you're used to it so you could incorperate a mixture of speed+thinking way more efficiently.
man i could rant about this a ton right now, im in total human physiology mode cuz i have an exam in 2 hours on stuff like this :/
conversely, if you played extremely fast most of the time, your information processing, smooth pursuit, tetanic stimulations, and reflexes would naturally be higher because you're used to it so you could incorperate a mixture of speed+thinking way more efficiently.
man i could rant about this a ton right now, im in total human physiology mode cuz i have an exam in 2 hours on stuff like this :/
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It takes like 1 frame to turn around so it's still reasonable.
Drill U-smash is somewhat temperamental in my practical experience. I want to say it depends on how perfectly you do the Dair but I'm really not sure.
Sinji
Smash Master
should i play aggressive against falco? any advice?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You should consider
Asking less broad, vague questions
That can be right or wrong depending on position, your opponent's style, and circumstantial details like percents and stage
But the answer
Is a definite
"Maybe."
"Sometimes," is also acceptable.
Asking less broad, vague questions
That can be right or wrong depending on position, your opponent's style, and circumstantial details like percents and stage
But the answer
Is a definite
"Maybe."
"Sometimes," is also acceptable.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
just run a nairtrain on falco, but remember to space nair just outside of falcos shine range. you'll **** any falcos that arent really really good that way.
Silent Wolf
...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
beware of falco sticking things in front of the nairtrain lolololol
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
like damsels in distress?
.................... wtf
So guys how do you beat marth?
How do you stop falcos lasers
how do you grab puff
loooool
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
i think playing fast and aggressive is more viable when your opponent has a similar style.
i think a lot of the reason people falter when they play fast and aggressive is because they over-commit to approaches and decisions when the opponent is perfectly comfortable dashdancing, or puff-bairing, etc. without having to commit, and therefore keeps a safe distance from the aggressor and puts the aggressor in a disadvantageous situation
i think a great example of that would be this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJehpHfcqU
when your opponent is also aggressive and willing to play the close combat game most of the time though, you're not over-committing because your opponent is closing the gap between you and him, not widening it as you do all the work trying to close it.
uhhh idk if what i just said made any sense lol but basically yeah
oh yeah, and the other (more concrete/easy to understand) danger of playing too fast is not knowing when to stop and catch an opponent doing something like rolling etc.
nairtrain on falco is like... a really bad idea... like it's just not the way to play that matchup at all haha. here lemme paste some stuff i saved from an aim convo i had with zhu about that matchup LOL
i think a lot of the reason people falter when they play fast and aggressive is because they over-commit to approaches and decisions when the opponent is perfectly comfortable dashdancing, or puff-bairing, etc. without having to commit, and therefore keeps a safe distance from the aggressor and puts the aggressor in a disadvantageous situation
i think a great example of that would be this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJehpHfcqU
when your opponent is also aggressive and willing to play the close combat game most of the time though, you're not over-committing because your opponent is closing the gap between you and him, not widening it as you do all the work trying to close it.
uhhh idk if what i just said made any sense lol but basically yeah
oh yeah, and the other (more concrete/easy to understand) danger of playing too fast is not knowing when to stop and catch an opponent doing something like rolling etc.
nairtrain on falco is like... a really bad idea... like it's just not the way to play that matchup at all haha. here lemme paste some stuff i saved from an aim convo i had with zhu about that matchup LOL
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
dairs, lasers
Lovage
Smash Hero
yeah this is a pretty good primer for falco
i recorded a good set with zoo yesterday that i think has some good stuff in it, i'd like to talk about that matchup more after i watch the vids
Silent Wolf
...
didnt realize this only had 50 views >_>
some more new vids vs eggz at our last tournament. gf should be uploaded by thaqt dude too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFeplL_fEd0&feature=related
some more new vids vs eggz at our last tournament. gf should be uploaded by thaqt dude too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFeplL_fEd0&feature=related
battousai555
Smash Ace
Is there an optimal way to avoid Falco's laser->grab when he hits your shield? Or should one just mix up buffered rolls and spotdodges (/jumps)?
Also, can Fox's shine->grab be avoided with a buffered roll or something like that if it hits a shield?
Also, can Fox's shine->grab be avoided with a buffered roll or something like that if it hits a shield?
Silent Wolf
...
shine oos. sh nair if theyre in front of you, sh bair if theyre behind
Shaeman111
Smash Ace
yeah playing against higher level fox's is so hard
shine oos is such a pain.
shine oos is such a pain.
voorhese
Smash Master
well i havent been on the interwebs besides checking facebook and purdue's thread in awhile cuz of computer johns, but i will say that i think that dash jc shine is really ****ing good, there was a point in time where i tried to make all of my shines jc shines except ones when im like nairshining or w.e
but i did find that u can basically waveshine fox with it if they miss the tech
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
yeah me too lol. post it later
every time i think i have falco figured out i get proved wrong
battousai555
Smash Ace
Thanks.
Does anyone know if shine->grab is escapable if you hit the opponent's shield with the shine?
Tomacawk
Smash Master
things that beat it:
shine oos
up b oos with: samus, (guessing here) doc, mario, luigi, gnw
the only things that will happen in a serious match would be samus upbing or fox/falco shining. other characters may do their **** if you make it obvious you're gunna shine jc grab by doing it a bunch
I THINK buffer spotdodge beats it, too
you're pretty much safe to do it against anybody who doesn't spotdodge often to shield pressure, though
shine oos
up b oos with: samus, (guessing here) doc, mario, luigi, gnw
the only things that will happen in a serious match would be samus upbing or fox/falco shining. other characters may do their **** if you make it obvious you're gunna shine jc grab by doing it a bunch
I THINK buffer spotdodge beats it, too
you're pretty much safe to do it against anybody who doesn't spotdodge often to shield pressure, though
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
if falco tries to laser > grab your shield, why not just grab him? Laser doesn't have enough shield stun for it to be guaranteed.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Oh well? It's a justifiable risk. Nothing is certain in Melee.
Roll becomes invincible on the same frame that JC shine hits, so that works too.
The grab isn't guaranteed, but if he does the laser low enough, he has frame advantage.
Silent Wolf
...
its not. you want to eliminate any risks from your game whenever u can. nair bair are way safer. wd back is safe too
this .
You may make the read, and you may land the grab. . . and the grab might even lead to stock. . . .
its like a sleep inducing move in pokemon. It eliminates a an opposing threat but it has a low probability of connecting and often doesnt result in any real advantage.