Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KirbyKaze]

roM2 mango got like 3 or 4 rests vs bam/vwins in the last game and about half of them killed

thorn and darc didn't do well at apex but they hit drillshine --> rest a lot on armada

idk why you guys think rest isn't that good in teams

it's a near instant-death that's easy to setup for the good puffs

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

that's what i think, not to mention you can save hit them after which is the icing on that ****

 

[MarsFool!]

No one is disputing rest being good. Rest can either work wonders for or against you. Also mango can do a lot of stupid **** to people, hes mango. Most jiggs are not on that level regardless.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unless you Rest your teammate I don't see how Rest ever really works against you.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I think Fox+Falcon is amazing lol. Falcon's main weakness in singles imo is his off-the-stage performance. An attentive Fox can get over there and prevent edgeguards from happening, because Falcon, while easy to edgeguard, spends a lot of time recovering. And knee provides a lot of kills, lol.

 

[MarsFool!]

Unless you Rest your teammate I don't see how Rest ever really works against you.

Missing a rest doesnt get you punished? **** I need to main jigglypuff

 

[GOD!]

The problem isnt that rest works against you.

It't that when you gain rest, you gain dying at 80%. And you lose what you could have with other characters (fox's speed, pressure, recovery; falcons killing power, marths support, range; whatever).

Don't be dumb, his point was that everyone overestimates fox+puff. He doesn't say rest is bad so stop being a big douche and acting like he said that.

Good god some people are so dumb. Also you realize in doubles puff loses a ton of the spacing and aerial mobility advantage that she has in singles. Of course you do. But you wont admit it cause you want to prove a point. Keep acting like fox+puff is so good, when the very best teams in the world are not fox+puff. you could argue that "oh mango and lucky are fox puff" but mango and lucky are good in teams with so many character combinations that the fox+puff label for them just doesn't apply.

 

[Brookman]

Let's stop talking about this garbage and get back to reasonable, applicable discussion.


Shuffle nair is a terrible way to approach people, and I am almost completely removing it from my style of play.


@marsfool!: missing a rest in teams when you have a competent team mate is difficult, especially when their character is fox (read: extremely fast in game)

 

[omgwtfToph]

nah. nair is amazing. removing sh nair is like removing roll. just because people often do it too much doesn't mean it isn't good

but

the only characters you can really use nair against with impunity are Falcon and Ganon imo. against Marth, for example, sh nair should only really be used when he's being combo'd, or vulnerable in the air. I like sh nair vs. peach to beat out her FC fair before it comes out (really situational, but leads to cool utilt combos. M2K does this famously against Armada)

sh nair is also really, really good in Fox dittos, and vs. Falco, but primarily when you have a situational advantage (so like, if he's near the ledge or in his shield or something, and you aren't just both dashdancing etc.)

I think learning how to approach with stuff other than nair was probably the most important habit-breaker I've gone through in my smash career >.>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Uhhh its very hard to punish rest in teams. All the viable methods of punishing rest in singles pretty much go out the window. If theres a fox on the other team, he may be able to run in and uncharged usmash before puff's partner stops him, or a falcon might be able to knee puff before the partner defends, but other than that theres not really a good way to get more than a bit of extra damage on puff.

Watching AnDaLe and Tomacawk, luke saved anthony from a whole bunch of deaths by doing a high dair when anthony got hit. Anthony rests tink, kels usmashes anthony, luke jumps above and dairs and now theres a stock gained for 20%.

A puff teaming with a fox means that puff can be about as safe after rest as doing a smash attack.

 

[GOD!]

That is the worst conclusion based off of one match

that I have ever read. And I've read a whole bunch of bull**** on these boards lolll

Also anything is bad if you space it poorly and low level foxes will watch videos then space nair bad until they realize theyre spacing is the problem, not the move.

Nair is really good for approach. Want proof, watch high level matches. You'll see it works. Cause they space it right and dont nair a CCing samus or peach, or they dont fall into other dumb situations.

 

[MarsFool!]

Spacing it lower so looks like an empty hop helps out a lot too.

 

[n1000]

I running usmash with the cstick.

Get on my level.

 

[Tomacawk]

That is the worst conclusion based off of one match

I really hope you aren't talking about saving puff from rests with fox, if you actually watched all our sets instead of showing everybody your ignorance (while being hostile, unfriendly, rude, and disrespectful), you'd see how wrong you are

also why are people talking so much **** to KK? His posts are good and he's better than almost everybody in this thread. furthermore, he actually tries to help people. Let's stop talking **** to him so he doesn't get pissed and stop posting

fox puff IS the best team inthe game. I think my sets prove it. If a player as unknown as myself and AnDaLe (I think AnDaLe is actually getting pretty well known though) can take 2nd at a midwest regional and be (according to tink) the first team in a year (maybe ever?) to take a set off of them in tournament, then there's something going on here.
Obviously we were playing very well, but the characters contribute as well.

Let's look at the largely exclusive benefits fox gives puff by teaming with her:
speed second to only falcon to get over to help her/overwhelm opponents
probably the best character in the game at saving her
excellent ability to get grabs for rests
shine->rest
reliable kill moves that can finish the kills for her
an excellent recovery that she does nto need to spend a lot of time baby sitting

Let's look at the largely exclusive benefits that puff gives fox by teaming with him:
the ability to take a stock at any time
gimping abilities on par with fox's
excellent ledge guarding
eliminates opponent's ability to chaingrab fox because they'll get rested

i'm sure there's other benefits I'm not thinking of. these are the 2 best characters, and neither of them have bad matchups

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tomacawk+and+andale&aq=f

 

[GOD!]

A puff teaming with a fox means that puff can be about as safe after rest as doing a smash attack

This is what sveet said, where he basically cited idiocy and one match situation, then made the statement.

Before you type some angry wall of text at me, make sure you know what I'm actually responding to..

And once again, listing pros and cons doesn't mean anything. Yes that's correct. What actually matters is what actually happens.

Let's look at top puff fox teams:
Mango and lucky (who **** everybody regardless of character choice so as I stated earlier, are irrelevant in determining which character combination is the best.
-Darc and th0rn

Now look at the myriad of fox falco, fox sheik, marth fox, whatever that actually places really high.
And using your own personal example obviously makes sense to you. But in reality and from the point of view from someone not overhyped on beating a top team with some characters, I think its safe to say that the team doesnt make you the best.

I watched the sets. Who cares. You beating the best team in the region doesnt mean your charcters are the best in teams. Admit it, that's terrible logic.

Once again, look at teams that are successful everywhere.

And then come talk to me.


KK is a man, if he posts stupid stuff and I call it stupid, he'll survive. Or ***** about it. But he'll be ok. I try and help people too by not making the entire fox boards start looking around there regions for puff teammates then getting raaaaaaaped in tourney. lol

fox puff IS the best team inthe game. I think my sets prove it.

If you honestly believe this I have nothing to say to you, cause if you honestly believe this.. you're reeally really dumb... sorry.

 

[TemPesT-]

what do you guys think of fox ganon as a team. i teamed with one about a month ago because i couldn't find a team mate prior, but it was pretty fun and i found him really pretty useful too. i'd rack up % and ganons moves take up a lot of the stage and kill really well too, idk maybe are playstyles just meshed together pretty well for never playing together or something. are there any notable fox ganon teams?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Woah when did GOD! get unbanned?

 

[GOD!]

I was never banned ....

meanwhile
yeah so I've been testing fox killing percents on puff on all the stages with full DI away
And fox ***** that match up.
Uthrow uair kills on stadium at 53% with any DI. Fox is good

 

[JPOBS]

if its not fox-puff, then which is the best team?

 

[PB&J]

shine is better than rest on teams..rest is great ,but yeah..your partner has to save you....too many factors to put in..shine is easier to maneuver ..rest after the fact isnt..so much more i can say but i hope thats good enough

 

[MarsFool!]

It wont matter, pbnj they dont understands the gap in puff player skill level vs puffs abilities on teams.

 

[JPOBS]

-shine doesnt kill from anywhere on any stage at almost any percent on any character
- grab->shine doesnt kill instantly
- rest an be combo'd into from a whole truckton of moves. (waveshine->rest is broken. You can even do it realiably vs chars that fall from shine. i've done it countless times with my partner.)
- stop saying "there arent any good fox puff teams." the fact is, there arent many puff PERIOD. just because many people dont play her doesnt mean she isnt amazing in teams.
-again, list teams better than fox-puff. im actually curious.

tomacawk can you link to ur set from the beginning? i can only find the 3.1-3.4 matches.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

mars, i don't see why you boast your opinion like it's fact, especially so condescendingly.

chill :x

 

[Tomacawk]

This is what sveet said, where he basically cited idiocy and one match situation, then made the statement.

Before you type some angry wall of text at me, make sure you know what I'm actually responding to..

Did you read my post? I was referring to Sveet's post about it being easy to save puff after she rests. Turns out, that's exactly what I asked if you were referring to in my post. You say that it is what you're referring to, and then immediately say that I didn't know what you were talking about.


I disagree with pretty much everything you've said, and I don't care enough to bother responding to you anymore. You're a prick, you're wrong, and frankly I think you're delusional. I look forward to seeing you post less and less (or perhaps getting banned).

tomacawk can you link to ur set from the beginning? i can only find the 3.1-3.4 matches.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LinkMOBert1#p/u
Tink and Kels sent us to losers, so there's 3 sets to see. I'll link you to GF set 1 (they 2-0d us in winners)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS9wvLPon2U

If you want to see why the team is so good, watch all the sets. There are tons of rests and saves.

 

[GOD!]

cop out cop out ignore omg guys look I won a set everyone look how pretty I am

you're a dumb idiot

@non idiots in the thread.

I think fox puff is just as good as fox sheik and fox marth.

After that, its some combination of fox, falco, and peach.

And of course everything has to do with player styles meshing, team chemistry, and of course infinite other variables including the time of day, what you had for breakfast, whether there's a hot girl watching your match.

So "best team" is going to be pretty much unprovable, unless the top 5 teams were dominated by a single character team.

But when you go out on a limb and say "This team is the best cause I won a set with it" (yeah thats what you said tomacawk) then you're just being super dumb.

 

[PB&J]

-shine doesnt kill from anywhere on any stage at almost any percent on any character
- grab->shine doesnt kill instantly
- rest an be combo'd into from a whole truckton of moves. (waveshine->rest is broken. You can even do it realiably vs chars that fall from shine. i've done it countless times with my partner.)
- stop saying "there arent any good fox puff teams." the fact is, there arent many puff PERIOD. just because many people dont play her doesnt mean she isnt amazing in teams.
-again, list teams better than fox-puff. im actually curious.

tomacawk can you link to ur set from the beginning? i can only find the 3.1-3.4 matches.

there are plenty of puffs..just not plenty of good ones..and the only 2 good puffs in teams are mango and darc..hbox has alot to work on in his team game

shine+rest is sick..i know i use to team with soft all the time..he rested everything like darc does but it has plenty of weaknesses..he also died alot , even though i was always there to save him.

shine is the shine..is better than rest period ..man reason is fox is way faster than puff..

i would love to fight every fox/puff team to prove my THEORY too..including mango/lucky

i really dont know why people fear jiggs in teams so much as she wins every single tourny in the world. yea mango and lucky win sometimes, but thats one team..two teams since darc is broken in teams, but thats the player not character.

jiggs is so overestimated ..she is good , but not as good as people think she is..i wish all jiggs mains will live other places for 3 moths for this community can figure out how to fight her.

any way..whos hype for rom 3?

and silent wolf- your new vid is sick..you keep raising the bar man..keep it up

 

[JPOBS]

there are plenty of puffs..just not plenty of good ones..and the only 2 good puffs in teams are mango and darc..hbox has alot to work on in his team game

shine+rest is sick..i know i use to team with soft all the time..he rested everything like darc does but it has plenty of weaknesses..he also died alot , even though i was always there to save him.

shine is the shine..is better than rest period ..man reason is fox is way faster than puff..

i would love to fight every fox/puff team to prove my THEORY too..including mango/lucky

i really dont know why people fear jiggs in teams so much as she wins every single tourny in the world. yea mango and lucky win sometimes, but thats one team..two teams since darc is broken in teams, but thats the player not character.

jiggs is so overestimated ..she is good , but not as good as people think she is..i wish all jiggs mains will live other places for 3 moths for this community can figure out how to fight her.

any way..whos hype for rom 3?

and silent wolf- your new vid is sick..you keep raising the bar man..keep it up

all you really said was "there are only two good puffs players, puff isnt actualy good, mango and darc are"

i simply disagree. She is underutilized as a character, but darc/mango show what she can do. It is incredibly easy to land rests, especially in teams where the opponent can't focus 100% on avoiding the rest, due to the plain hectic nature of teams.

My puff teammate almost never dies from rest punishes if im on the stage so idk what to say about that

and i lived with a puff main for over a year, im not afraid of puff or think she's broken, its one of my best matchups. But that doesnt change the fact that puff/fox is a retardedly good team.

 

[Tomacawk]

But when you go out on a limb and say "This team is the best cause I won a set with it" (yeah thats what you said tomacawk) then you're just being super dumb.

I know this may be hard for you to draw conclusions using your own thoughts, so I'll try my best to lay out the implications of what I meant. I thought I didn't need to elaborate any further. I simply use my own experiences to illustrate the benefits of them team because I've seen and been a part of it first hand.

not to hype myself, but check out the vids of me and andale (fox and puff). I am almost never in his way; in fact it's quite the contrary. Rest is a huge part of our team game.
...
imo it is the best team in the game. fox saving jiggs is where the team really becomes broken
...
[in response to you saying one game proves nothing--by the way, you can see me saving him from rests EVERY SINGLE GAME of EVERY SINGLE SET we played. Did you really watch? Your words say yes, but your ignorance says no.]
I really hope you aren't talking about saving puff from rests with fox, if you actually watched all our sets instead of showing everybody your ignorance (while being hostile, unfriendly, rude, and disrespectful), you'd see how wrong you are
...
fox puff IS the best team in the game. I think my sets prove it.

I then list a conglomerate of reasons why the team is so good. I was saying my sets prove it because you can SEE the team being played correctly; it should be much easier to understand than by reading about it. It has nothing to do with the fact that we were beating good teams. That just means we play well.

If you'd like to take anything else I've said out on context, feel free; I can't stop you from being a douche, nor can I stop you from being an idiot. I can, however, give you the privilege of being the only player I've ever blocked.
Would you like to make a speech on this unique accomplishment?

 

[Brookman]

KK is a noob, he said it himself. On top of that, he plays sheik and is canadian. I think those are three qualities which warrant constant flaming.



On a serious note, I'm good at this game.


I lol'd @ that first double kill in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS9wvLPon2U


I need to verify something: Is it possible to maintain invincibility on the edge using the firefox??? If so, can anyone tell me the frame precision required??

 

[PB&J]

all you really said was "there are only two good puffs players, puff isnt actualy good, mango and darc are"

i simply disagree. She is underutilized as a character, but darc/mango show what she can do. It is incredibly easy to land rests, especially in teams where the opponent can't focus 100% on avoiding the rest, due to the plain hectic nature of teams.

My puff teammate almost never dies from rest punishes if im on the stage so idk what to say about that

and i lived with a puff main for over a year, im not afraid of puff or think she's broken, its one of my best matchups. But that doesnt change the fact that puff/fox is a retardedly good team.

fox /puff is a good team..just not the best team..

 

[JPOBS]

which team(s) is better?

 

[GOD!]

Lol the funny thing is that when you were trying to save each other you often got *****

Every thing you've said that you thought was relevant, I already responded to.

So in summary:
-You're dumb.
-You use theory, I use results and sound reasoning.

Ok thx

 

[Tero.]

Puff is #1 in teams.

I remember when we used to talk about a team tier list in the BR and realized it's kinda impossible to make a clear ranking.

Fox/Puff
Sheik/Puff
Fox/Peach
Fox/Sheik

are all really good combinations

 

[Sinji]

what are good combos against peach? any advice. and how do you avoid her chaingrabs on FD?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i'm interested on how some think marth/fox is just as good as fox/puff & fox/shiek, or even fox/peach.

@Sinji, it's a chaingrab for a reason, you just have to keep DI'ing left or right, or not at all and hope they screw up. I would just advise not constantly DI'ing in the same direction if they keep grabbing you, and i wouldn't DI too far towards the ledge.

Above all that, space better so you don't get grabbed.

it's like the worst thing that can happen to a spacie

 

[FoxLisk]

what are good combos against peach? any advice. and how do you avoid her chaingrabs on FD?

nair sometimes combos into nair. shine combos into shine. grab combos into uthrow into upair.

don't get grabbed? i mean it's a chaingrab, that's the only way out.

 

[ZoSo]

trahh: It's actually just GOD! who thinks that, and he probably doesn't really think that because he's a troll and maybe the worst poster I've ever seen.

Fox/Marth is a very good team, though. Marth kinda gets trashed by double Fox teams and whatnot since he's comparatively slow and it's hard for him to get his edge game going, but he's fairly good at holding stocks and just generally being a huge pain in the *** while occasionally killing anything that gets hit toward him.

And Fox... well, Fox is just Fox. He doesn't need a teammate.

 

[otg]

I hear Fox's bair is pretty good.

 

[ZoSo]

Yeah, it kinda shuts down half the cast by itself.

 

[MarsFool!]

D mario get back on the stage