Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[earla]

1. why would you usmash when u can shine usmash for extra %?

2. spacing. what is the ideal spacing for a nair?

which moves should i practice spacing for in particular. am i trying to hit with the tip of my moves?

3. which zone of space is ideal for fox?

4. why would you ever wave shine > combo as opposed to wave shinex4 across the stage then combo? assuming your tech is 100% solid

thanks so much, im just starting out so i have alot of questions. much appreciated

 

[PK Webb]

Fox falco falcon for a fox team of hype and fast paced ****.......jiggs for play to win lol

 

[Strong Badam]

1. why would you usmash when u can shine usmash for extra %?

a few reasons include risk vs. reward, the fact that usmash guarantees KO at certain %'s without shine.

2. spacing. what is the ideal spacing for a nair?

varied. you don't want to be predictable, but you always want your spacing to be good, regardless of what kind of spacing you use.

which moves should i practice spacing for in particular. am i trying to hit with the tip of my moves?

nair, bair, utilt, usmash.

3. which zone of space is ideal for fox?

depends on the character you're facing as well as the level of skill of your opponent.

4. why would you ever wave shine > combo as opposed to wave shinex4 across the stage then combo? assuming your tech is 100% solid

some combos are more horizontal than vertical, thus it's better to begin it earlier. additionally, waveshine grab uthrow uair is more likely to succeed than waveshine shine shine shine grab uthrow uair, as the opponent has less time to react.

 

[Kanelol]

Shine usmash is mad hard to land, that's why

 

[unknown522]

1. why would you usmash when u can shine usmash for extra %?

2. spacing. what is the ideal spacing for a nair?

which moves should i practice spacing for in particular. am i trying to hit with the tip of my moves?

3. which zone of space is ideal for fox?

4. why would you ever wave shine > combo as opposed to wave shinex4 across the stage then combo? assuming your tech is 100% solid

thanks so much, im just starting out so i have alot of questions. much appreciated

1. Shine -> u-smash is a pretty big commitment. You have to have a lot of distance to be able to perform a DC-shine. If you're planning to do a running u-smash, then shine -> u-smash should be fine at that point.

2. You usually want to over shoot it, so that you won't miss your shine. The times you should actually be spacing it, is when you think that they will CC it, and they can't punish with anything when you're spaced, or when you are trying to go around an opponent's move.

3. Any is fine. His camping is really good, and he's good up close. I play aggressive, so I'm usually close/mid range.

4. Waveshine across the stage is usually better. The only time when you should waveshine -> combo is if the character can escape the waveshine with SDI, or if the character can't be waveshined across the stage.

 

[GOD!]

It gives me a headache reading this thread sometime..

Why would someone ask what you do in a situation and then you give like two possible scenarios or something?

You would say something like "well that's a guaranteed combo or way to get good percent or it's a mix up or jman did it."

I thought melee was about being unpredictable and mind ****** your opponent.. And doing something like double shine after an uthrow is kind of dumb...
1) When you uthrow even if they don't di the throw, it's not like they're going to not di inward after the throw... if their percent is low enough that they can't jump out, then you wouldn't have time to dash forward and shine so they did head off the edge. You could still shine them in the air but they'd just bounce into the ground and then off the stage, out of stun... but very close to the stage.

2) Also if you don't do a perfect double shine and then wd out or something, they will be below the stage and able to recover. You will hardly have time (even if you did a perfect double shine) to jump off and shine them to their death. So now they're recovering from below and you are on the edge. So they firefox back on, tech whatever you do, and the match goes on.

3) or you could just uthrow to utilt at like 60 if they don't Di and follow that with uair or bair which will definitely get them off the stage. Or if they're over 90 just hit them 3 times, uthrow, follow their DI and bair them off stage.

Mostly because of point 2), I don't get things like this. you call it situational, or a mixup, but what if you're just playing bad smash?

I wish people would just ask about priority and following DI and stuff, not situations. If you run to other people with help for situations that you haven't thought out yourself first (thoroughly), then you're not gonna get better cause you're relying on other people to process the situation for you.

These are just my thoughts but I'm a scrub. also any foxes coming to tipped off, I'm accepting all reasonable MM's. I love fox dittos.

 

[omgwtfToph]

^ this entire post is wrong rofl. especially "below the stage and able to recover" cuz "below the stage" usually means guaranteed edgeguard in fox vs. [space animal]

including not asking people what to do in certain situations. thats like saying we should entirely stop discussing matchups

anyway go watch that one match with jman and pp where jman like gimps pp on fd like 3 times or something

 

[dashdancedan]

2) Also if you don't do a perfect double shine and then wd out or something, they will be below the stage and able to recover. You will hardly have time (even if you did a perfect double shine) to jump off and shine them to their death. So now they're recovering from below and you are on the edge. So they firefox back on, tech whatever you do, and the match goes on.

>>they will be below the stage
>>and able to recover

Wait what. What part of a character being under the stage = being able to recover?

>>So they firefox back on, tech whatever you do, and the match goes on.

Except the part where you drop down shine them or ledge hop dair them.

 

[Return]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co7i4UTw5Tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJmpgLEC9fk&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8eA9ucYFD8&feature=channel

I'm playing with my friend at school, (since he's like the only decent person i can play). he watches smash videos and stuff but he doesn't go on smashboards, i don't think. He only likes playing on final destination...lol.

 

[KAOSTAR]

cool. I want to see him again.

does he still look like a pothead?

he is an upstanding citizen now.

 

[unknown522]

haha. He turned his life around.

His luigi is sexy (I know he mains marth, but).

 

[KirbyKaze]

DJ Combo and Tope must now grow beards and do battle.

 

[GOD!]

^ this entire post is wrong rofl. especially "below the stage and able to recover" cuz "below the stage" usually means guaranteed edgeguard in fox vs. [space animal]

including not asking people what to do in certain situations. thats like saying we should entirely stop discussing matchups

anyway go watch that one match with jman and pp where jman like gimps pp on fd like 3 times or something

I was gonna post a sarcastic reply but I think I'll just be honest:
Recoverring below the stage is not a guaranteed edgeguard. When I see you post that I think of some slightly ******** kid coming on smashboards, drooling over silent wolf videos and not understanding anything about smash. Then they make stupid overgeneralizations and try and put other people down.

It's no where close to guaranteed. Space animals offstage have a million options.. some of them are better than others. Alright mr prodigy, pull out your web browser and watch 50 space animal match and see how "almost guaranteed" edgeguards are from below are.

>>they will be below the stage
>>and able to recover

Wait what. What part of a character being under the stage = being able to recover?

>>So they firefox back on, tech whatever you do, and the match goes on.

Except the part where you drop down shine them or ledge hop dair them.

How is recovering low bad??

And I already explained why you can't drop down shine. Ledge drop dair? Ok, once I see anyone do that effectively I'll believe it, but all it does is give them another chance to recover, along with being less reliable than 5 other edgeguarding options..?

Yeah and if you firefox from below.. just hold up when you're about to get hit??then illusion. Hey you're back onstage, unless they're a god and tilted you out of your illusion or something.

 

[FoxLisk]

And I already explained why you can't drop down shine. Ledge drop dair? Ok, once I see anyone do that effectively I'll believe it, but all it does is give them another chance to recover, along with being less reliable than 5 other edgeguarding options..?

um. hvae you never seen ledgedrop dair used to edgeguard? it's really good. it forces them to cover from a really awkward angle where they have almost no options, which makes it easy for you to **** them.

 

[Tomacawk]

I *really* dislike all the implications that people are making in terms of pot smokers being "bad citizens" and "throwing their lives away"
I discovered a new gimp setup for fox/falco. I am waiting for a chance to record it before I talk about it. If it proves to be as useful as I think it is, it will be another weapon to add to your repoitar-it allows for gimps while being 2-3 wavedashes away from the ledge

 

[KAOSTAR]

@god. na man. fox ditto with low recovery lol.

unless you wall tech ur gone. even then it might not be enough or even an option.

ur gay for not drooling over silent wolf.

refresh your invincibility and roll up or shine/drop shine.

also toph isnt 14 and he is actually pretty tight. id rather pray to him after reading your posts.

signed mewtwo scum =D

edit: recovering low you have 1 option...firefox

 

[ZoSo]

@GOD! First of all, stop being such a sanctimonious tool.

You can easily cover 90% of their options with a well-timed invincible ledgehop bair. Everything you don't hit with that can be edgeguarded on reaction with invincible shine, edgehogging, crouch cancel shine... the list goes on. And hey, did somebody forget about the thing where you can shine them backwards with the top of the hitbox and prevent them from teching?

Also, ledgehop dair IS good. It can't be teched and forces them to recover from directly below the edge (or close to it), where they're basically a sitting duck if you refresh your ledge invincibility and shine them. "I've never seen anybody do it so it's bad" is absolutely ****ing ******** logic.

You have no idea what you're talking about and it's really obvious. Please just stop.

 

[dashdancedan]

I love reading people's post in their IRL voice

 

[Silent Wolf]

I was gonna post a sarcastic reply but I think I'll just be honest:
Recoverring below the stage is not a guaranteed edgeguard. When I see you post that I think of some slightly ******** kid coming on smashboards, drooling over silent wolf videos and not understanding anything about smash. Then they make stupid overgeneralizations and try and put other people down.

recovering below the stage is not a guaranteed edgeguard, but it does leave you with only one option, and that option is limited to fewer angles. one limited option = a lot easier to edgeguard. its too slow to catch them off guard too.

LOL thats basically what you just did to toph, and im sure youre the only one who thought of his post like that lol.

It's no where close to guaranteed. Space animals offstage have a million options.. some of them are better than others. Alright mr prodigy, pull out your web browser and watch 50 space animal match and see how "almost guaranteed" edgeguards are from below are.

its true space animals have a million options offstage (not literally >_>), but not when you recover low lol. youre just taking away those options and doing firefox lol. recovering lower than expected is alright sometimes (pretty much only after you get hit by something out there and they try to hit you again and you go lower than they expected) usually its better to wait in your shine and seek out openings.

How is recovering low bad??

let me rephrase that. how is limiting yourself to one limited recovery option thats easy to react to and easier to edge guard bad? o wait..

And I already explained why you can't drop down shine. Ledge drop dair? Ok, once I see anyone do that effectively I'll believe it, but all it does is give them another chance to recover, along with being less reliable than 5 other edgeguarding options..?

ledge hop dair is an automatic kill if you up b from below fox, thats when it should be used. yeah it gives them another chance to recover, but you can just drop down and shine them. if you were too slow you could just dair again. if you had to you could keep doing it until theyre at 300% or w/e lol. usually u can just edge hog or shien by then. its not less reliable if you dont suck. if they arent coming from below and theyre coming from below and to the side just bair. bair to cover the low recovery option and youll still be able to react if they up at a higher angle. theres a system to edge guarding fox, and me and toph have done countless dittos, you seem to just watch videos.

Yeah and if you firefox from below.. just hold up when you're about to get hit??then illusion. Hey you're back onstage, unless they're a god and tilted you out of your illusion or something.

if you firefox from below youll get daired and wont be able to live no matter what lol.

DJ Combo and Tope must now grow beards and do battle.

LMAO agreed

 

[ZoSo]

Apparently you have to be a god to hit forward-Bs with tilts.

LOLOLOL can't believe I missed that one.

 

[Lovage]

i'm sad that douche got sincere and constructive responses LOL

and yeah about ledgehop dair vs. firefox ---- it's good as ***

but i'd say it's pretty hard to master the timing, it's REALLY common for firefox to trade with dair which is a bad trade since they get the edge safely. if you understand the spacing of dair it's a really strong tool to have in edgeguarding spacies. also, due the fact that it's generally an underused technique, after getting hit most people immediately firefox again and get shined, instead of dropping very low to where you can't shine them safely.

you can bet that in 2012 when foxes are doing this at the perfect times, people will have learned to dip very very low after getting dair'd before they firefox as to protect themselves from invincible shines. so it's not a guaranteed kill against everybody, but against most people it usually is.

another thing to watch out for when ledgehop dair'ing is to try to only hit with 1-2 kicks of the dair, if you hit with like a full dair they have a really easy opportunity to SDI onto the stage.

but before you use this in tournament without knowing the spacing/timing of it and what situations it's good in, keep in mind that a well executed ledgehop bair is a million times easier and safer than a tiny dair hitbox that is pretty tough to control and not have trade with firefox.

 

[GOD!]

Thanks lovage yur a ***g0t too

That's the whole point, you can't time dair to always cover every option unless your super good.
Zoso yur a ****** too, thanks for the idiotic responses.

SW thanks for the reply, at least you took time to explain it and I believe a lot of what you said.

No one is advocating going low every time, but if you illusion on to the stage or sweetspot with firefox every time, you're being predictable. The whole point is don'e write it off as bad cause it's just another useful thing you can do.

W/e ******s hop behind your theory crafting.

Oh and zoso have fun dsmashing someone out of firefox and then suddenly being able to react to their wall jumped illusion. Please go ahead. dumb *** who can't even read a post.

 

[ZoSo]

That's the whole point, you can't time dair to always cover every option unless your super good.

So before you said it's not effective, now you're saying it's only effective if you're good? Just like everything else in this game? Wow.

SW thanks for the reply, at least you took time to explain it and I believe a lot of what you said.

LOL he pretty much said everything I said yet you're calling him smart? Then you accuse me of poor reading comprehension? Wow.

No one is advocating going low every time, but if you illusion on to the stage or sweetspot with firefox every time, you're being predictable. The whole point is don'e write it off as bad cause it's just another useful thing you can do.

Nobody is saying NEVER RECOVER FROM BELOW THE STAGE, but if you can force them to recover from below the stage (uthrow > double shine accomplishes this, if you need it spelled out for you), you severely limit their options which makes them much easier to edgeguard. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

Oh and zoso have fun dsmashing someone out of firefox and then suddenly being able to react to their wall jumped illusion. Please go ahead. dumb *** who can't even read a post.

Who said anything about dsmash? I sure didn't. It's just really telling that you consider tilting forward-Bs a godlike feat.

And again you're accusing me of poor reading comprehension after blatantly inserting your own thoughts into my post. I never even used the word "smash," ******. Either that or you're just failing at a strawman argument.

 

[Rubyiris]

hitting firefox with fox's fair is so easy wut.

 

[SleepyK]

Peter, ur dumb

 

[voorhese]

luke r u talking about the ledgehop dair (when they illusion) then into a shine spike?

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol GOD is a troll. don't feed him?

 

[GOD!]

Peter, ur dumb

uh actually I'm like the smartest person at my school

w/e Ill just learn to think by myself and stop suggesting different ways to approach the game

 

[ZoSo]

You should learn to stop being ******** instead.

 

[GOD!]

You aren't even good at this game. Search zoso fox on youtube and you get some random scrub doing stupid stuff for 4 minutes.

You should learn to kill yourself. Oh wow another insult, how long will this go on...

 

[ZoSo]

Are you talking about the set where I went last stock last hit with Hax?

 

[SleepyK]

peter, this isn't winning you any merit.
need i bring up beating you with my array of bottom tiers that i don't even play?

Admitting you're wrong instead of making some feeble attempt at trolling is a sign of maturity, which you admittedly have trouble showing.

I guess i'll just have to beat you with kirby again

 

[GOD!]

Alright MM?

 

[FluxWolf]

unsubscribed

**** this ****

 

[unknown522]

let me rephrase that. how is limiting yourself to one limited recovery option thats easy to react to and easier to edge guard bad? o wait..

lol! I love this answer. I've been telling raynex the same thing about recovering (especially vs marth and sheik, if it can be helped). I try as hard as possible to not start my recovery lower than the ledge's height, if I can help it. Of course there are some circumstances, but you probably know what I mean.

Also, **** SleepyK. Reminds me of pool 1 at APEX, where I mostly went pichu.

 

[Kanelol]

omg FluxWolf is so cool because he doesnt like this thread

 

[joeplicate]

Thanks lovage yur a ***g0t too

That's the whole point, you can't time dair to always cover every option unless your super good.
Zoso yur a ****** too, thanks for the idiotic responses.

SW thanks for the reply, at least you took time to explain it and I believe a lot of what you said.

No one is advocating going low every time, but if you illusion on to the stage or sweetspot with firefox every time, you're being predictable. The whole point is don'e write it off as bad cause it's just another useful thing you can do.

W/e ******s hop behind your theory crafting.

Oh and zoso have fun dsmashing someone out of firefox and then suddenly being able to react to their wall jumped illusion. Please go ahead. dumb *** who can't even read a post.

god dam ur such a fuken idiot



and dj combo is playing again!!? sick!!

 

[FluxWolf]

omg FluxWolf is so cool because he doesnt like this thread

who are you? didnt you say shine u smash is hard LOL. YOUR not cool thats for sure.

 

[FoxLisk]

fluxwolf:

didnt YOU say you weren't reading this anymore?


also it's super not hard to tilt people out of walltech illusions. you just assume they're going to do it and ftilt, because if they don't then they either didn't tech and are dead or teched and went low and you can dsmash again. so... i dont understand what would make you even think for a second that it's difficult.

 

[Kanelol]

durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr