Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Fortress | Sveet]

Did . . . did you know that the back air had a hit box that large above his leg?? Did you?

Did you?!?!?!

... its only because he is falling in that picture so the hitbox is extended.

 

[Brookman]

I want you to read this as monotonously as possible:

ooooooooooooooooh, thaaaaaaaanks sveeeeeeet.

 

[Tomacawk]

**** THIS THREAD

raynex save us

I almost made a post last night about how this thread sucks now
people please filter your posts with quality checks before you post them
Brookman, stop being so dumb and annoying...you're secretly really good and helpful, why keep those facts quiet about yourself on purpose?

 

[MarsFool!]

Not... really, actually. The hitstop (hitlag, whatever you wanna call it lol - the "freeze" frames) that changes the timing only occurs after the first time; by the time you go and input the jump->second shine, the timing is exactly the same cuz the hitstop has worn off.

I'm pretty sure dashdancedan is right on the doubleshine thing since he's saying exactly what I was saying for like a page and a half lolol.

Huh the difference between shining someone and just shining is different. Why would the stun go away because if you hit with both shines, you lag twice not once.

 

[omgwtfToph]

.... no.... what

what are you even saying >.<

yes the hitlag occurs twice, sure. now, think about when that hitlag is occurring. think: is that hitlag gonna change the timing of me sliding my thumb from Y to B (or however you input the jc shine)? ask yourself that.

that's all i'm gonna say lol because otherwise i'd just be repeating myself from my previous post

i'm done for a while lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

Or maybe he meant he only hits with it while running because of the fact that you need the momentum. So Guus you cant double shine and hit with both while standing(if thats what you meant).

 

[FluxWolf]

yeaa im just gonna stop posting in here x_x

 

[TemPesT-]

dbl shines can both hit when your not moving.... example. upthrow dbl shine gimp.

but for the scenario i was talking about... it might be possible? but it's much easier to dash away a little bit, then dash back and dbl shine them. also if you dash away and you spot them doing a get up attack instead of a regular attack, your in a better position then standing right on top of them in shield imo. sure grab/upsmash oos would probably work fine, but you can do whatever you want from the position the tiny dash away puts you in, including run up grab/upsmash.

 

[RaynEX]

This thread was really good in the time before and slightly after Pound 4.

Everyone was starting to buckle down and really improve. Videos for critique were flying through here left and right and EVERYONE had good questions to ask. Most of which usually lead to productive theory-crafting.

The Fox boards are now full of silly exchanges about things that don't matter, broken up by long periods of socializing.

edit: Doubleshining your opponent after a thunders near the edge is prone to failure. If they have a feeling you're going to do it, they can tech the shine very easily. Even if they don't know you're trying to doubleshine, they can tap L/R just in case. (It wouldn't negatively impact the situation if you usmashed/grabbed instead)

 

[TemPesT-]

This thread was really good in the time before and slightly after Pound 4.

Everyone was starting to buckle down and really improve. Videos for critique were flying through here left and right and EVERYONE had good questions to ask. Most of which usually lead to productive theory-crafting.

The Fox boards are now full of silly exchanges about things that don't matter, broken up by long periods of socializing.

edit: I have a good question.

What if your opponent d.i.s your uthrow Tempest?

i was only replying to kaos who said maybe dbl shines can't connect unless your running. no need to get snippy Bernard

 

[RaynEX]

Yeah, I responded without reading the whole thing properly. I do that alot.

Edited, my bad. Read what I substituted it with.

 

[TemPesT-]

no prob. also kinda goes with what Toph was saying on the last page, if you spend the whole time thinking about how your opponent COULD or CAN get out of something, your just limiting your options, cuz almost nothings ever guaranteed in this game. maybe your opponents never seen a thunders to dbl shine attempt near the edge, or just wasn't expecting it. Just cuz it's an option doesn't mean you have to do it every opportunity, but just something to keep in the back of your mind.

 

[FluxWolf]

i think at higher level play the game becomes even more about doing only the guaranteed options/RPS/not putting yourself in a bad position ever or = death

if u miss a tech u didnt want to miss, ur dead.

if u DI wrong, ur dead

if u space wrong, ur dead

even if ur doing some **** *** **** it still doesnt matter if u dont do it perfectly like mango

edit: thats what ive learned at least and if anyone tries to do some trippy doubleshine etc bs on me... it aint gonna work, i wont let it. and they will die/lose the match in the end.

 

[RaynEX]

no prob. also kinda goes with what Toph was saying on the last page, if you spend the whole time thinking about how your opponent COULD or CAN get out of something, your just limiting your options, cuz almost nothings ever guaranteed in this game. maybe your opponents never seen a thunders to dbl shine attempt near the edge, or just wasn't expecting it.

Fair enough. But the fact that it does have faults should be something to take note of. Sometimes being too open-minded works against you, and you become oblivious of an plan's weaknesses.

Just cuz it's an option doesn't mean you have to do it every opportunity, but just something to keep in the back of your mind.

I agree, and I have something to add. Putting uthrow doubleshine (for example) into practice or thinking its good just because its one more option to use, doesn't sound so appealing. What's the point of over-complicating follow-ups by running options with slight flaws through your head?

-Usmash (can't be teched, combos into shine if d.i.ed offstage, combos into itself/utilt/grab/shine if d.i.ed anywhere else. *Percent specific)

-Grab (Follow their d.i. and use your imagination. 100% guaranteed anything regardless of d.i., which you can manipulate with weak nairs, dash attacks and fsmashes for more hits or an edge-guard)

Staple options that don't have a single deficiency are what we should be focusing on. Perfect Foxes away!

 

[TemPesT-]

pretty sure i've done it to you before flux Lol. sorry

 

[KAOSTAR]

edit: Doubleshining your opponent after a thunders near the edge is prone to failure. If they have a feeling you're going to do it, they can tech the shine very easily. Even if they don't know you're trying to doubleshine, they can tap L/R just in case. (It wouldn't negatively impact the situation if you usmashed/grabbed instead)

I thought the point of double shining was so they fly off the edge and often miss the tech? or was that only from up throw?

if they tap l/r at low percents wouldnt they most likely miss the tech on an up throw? (vs fox falco)

staple efficient foxes = good but boring lol

 

[Brookman]

If you're close enough to the edge a double shine (pending di information) will strip the opportunity to tech my sending them more upwards and outwards than the single shine (ie. first shine places them in the air, second shine will have a shine spike knock back since they are airborn. )

 

[Lovage]

edit: Doubleshining your opponent after a thunders near the edge is prone to failure. If they have a feeling you're going to do it, they can tech the shine very easily. Even if they don't know you're trying to doubleshine, they can tap L/R just in case. (It wouldn't negatively impact the situation if you usmashed/grabbed instead)

thunders -> late nair double shine is something i've been doing a lot recently.i think if your thunders' ends near the edge it's a really good option. it does a lot of damage and forces them to illusion/up+b.

and btw whenever people are talking about doubleshine combos, it's never important that the second shine actually stays on the ground. all that matters is that both shines connect and you are reasonably close to the floor so you can follow up (grab the edge usually.)

 

[earla]

can you guys kindly give me a list of combos a NEW fox should master?

i will perfect them all.

i play melee pal version as im from australia.

also.

1. what are foxes best shield pressure options?

2. what are foxes best out of shield options?

thanks so much!

 

[voorhese]

can you guys kindly give me a list of combos a NEW fox should master?

i will perfect them all.

i play melee pal version as im from australia.

also.

1. what are foxes best shield pressure options?

2. what are foxes best out of shield options?

thanks so much!

idk that much about pal, but this is what i can tell you about ur 2 questions
1. it depends on your opponent, i use a lot of late nair shines, or if it is a fox/falco i shine grab so i can upthrow to upsmash (but i hear pal upsmash isnt as good as ours)
2. shine oos is pretty ****, or even WD oos for like lasers or w.e

im sure ull have better replys but these are pretty basic good choices

edit: shine oos imo isnt as good if you cant at least stay on the ground after it, so you can short hop out of the shine, i can waveshine oos pretty consistantly, and even thunders oos on occasion.

 

[mastermoo420]

I don't think Fox has many guaranteed combos like, say, Falcon's d-throw/u-throw to knee on Marth except for maybe, like, u-throw > u-air on floaties or u-throw to u-tilts if you can. You just kinda do things as you go. But waveshine combos are pretty nice, and I personally like drill > grab since they can't really shield the grab like if you were to do a shine instead; but vary things as well.

Shine OoS is still fine even if you don't stay on the ground. Imo, it's most useful when shield pressured by Falco, and whether you do it while on the ground or in the air, it serves its purpose in knocking Falco away and resetting the positions.

 

[earla]

any tips on teaming with a jigglypuff?

also, at low %'s what are foxes best setups/combos to get a grab?

 

[Brookman]

you grab they rest.

 

[FoxLisk]

any tips on teaming with a jigglypuff?

also, at low %'s what are foxes best setups/combos to get a grab?

tell the puff to rest EVERYTHING, and make sure you're on the spot asap. also have him learn to save you with uairs and puff punches. it can extend fox's life unreasonably.

obnoxious answer: fox's best setup to grab people is SPACING and DASHDANCING!!

real answer: if someone shields, just grab. if you hit with a nair and they shield, shinegrab is good. if you land a shine, WD-> grab works on a lot of people. if they're fox or falco and you land a shine, thunders->grab *****.

 

[Brookman]

. it can extend fox's life unreasonably.

truly, a great statement.

 

[Winston]

I agree, and I have something to add. Putting uthrow doubleshine (for example) into practice or thinking its good just because its one more option to use, doesn't sound so appealing. What's the point of over-complicating follow-ups by running options with slight flaws through your head?

what's the main flaw with uthrow -> doubleshine near the edge? Is it too hard to react to the DI with a different option?

 

[RaynEX]

uthrow doubleshine only works if your opponent doesn't d.i. left/right. Other options out of uthrow work universally and combo into themselves, or other moves that would do more damage (and not end the combo).

Ppeople aren't going to drop the controller and neutral d.i. when they're near an edge.

(But it has its uses because the scenario comes up from time to time.)

 

[Winston]

People miss the DI when they're near the edge if they get grabbed when they aren't expecting it. It's not like it never happens.

My question is, do you think it's too hard to react to them missing the DI with a doubleshine, while still being ready to usmash/regrab/whatever if they DI? Obviously you don't try to doubleshine every time you uthrow them, but it has a higher reward than anything else in that situation.

 

[Brookman]

I dunno, I mean, if we're talking bout vs. fast fallers (even in general) I think throwing people off stage is priority #1.

if you are at the edge and decide to up throw and they don't DI I'd rather shine them off than anything elsee.

 

[Lovage]

fox's uthrow on spacies is ridiculously fast so people miss the DI **** loads

 

[Sinji]

whats a good character to team up with fox? any advice.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i got the uthrow double shine on jman when we played.

tell me again how good players will always DI out and stuff

 

[FoxLisk]

truly, a great statement.

i dont even know if you are being sarcastic. but um, if you are, **** you?

 

[Brookman]

i got the uthrow double shine on jman when we played.

tell me again how good players will always DI out and stuff

(y) liked


at lisk: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/truly

 

[Silent Wolf]

whats a good character to team up with fox? any advice.

pretty much anybody mid tier and above can be good with fox. watch videos of fox with dif characters on his team.

 

[unknown522]

lol @ this discussion about double-shining.

But yeah, the only time I use it with fox is when I am shield-pressuring and when I u-throw them and they don't DI near the ledge. If they DI away, then grab again and b-throw them. If they DI behind you, then jump out and shine them. Still, I don't really get many grabs facing that way (maybe because I'm too aggressive all the time?).

whats a good character to team up with fox? any advice.

IMO, fox/jiggs is the best team in the game.

I like double fox and fox/falco a lot, but you have to almost never get hit. It can be annoying sometimes. Raynex and I used to do fox/doc. We lost to SW + DJ combo in pools at pound 3, then I pretty much stopped using doc at that point.

I remember I was talking with Raynex about our team on the second day at pound 3. He said: "if one fox is amazing on any team, then why not have two?" lol.

 

[Silent Wolf]

dj combo started playing again btw. he might go to pound 5 or something

 

[Lovage]

double fox is the worst team in the game, and also fuking amazing

my favorite teams are falco fox and fox falcon

 

[Silent Wolf]

fox fox and fox marth are my favorites.

 

[unknown522]

dj combo started playing again btw. he might go to pound 5 or something

cool. I want to see him again.

does he still look like a pothead?