Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Rud Lisi]

Hey guys, i really need help against my friends falco. I've only uploaded one video so far, but more will come, but basically i get owned like this every time. Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAmPii5ZTQ

 

[Meneks]

Hey guys, i really need help against my friends falco. I've only uploaded one video so far, but more will come, but basically i get owned like this every time. Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAmPii5ZTQ

You need to implement shining into your fox vs falco gameplay..
Learn to do combos out of grabs.. thunders combo the works...

 

[KAOSTAR]

Hey guys, i really need help against my friends falco. I've only uploaded one video so far, but more will come, but basically i get owned like this every time. Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAmPii5ZTQ

It also seems like you are just throwing attacks out there and expecting them to hit. If you land on the backside of falcos shield with a nair, try to shine or apply some type of shield pressure

Falco aerials are mad beefy. You have to space better to beat them.

and shine oos more. Just tech chase him and get some grabs off.

 

[EC_Joey]

Hey guys, i really need help against my friends falco. I've only uploaded one video so far, but more will come, but basically i get owned like this every time. Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpAmPii5ZTQ

Learn to shine or di Falco's dthrow. You died twice to it.

Use your shield more against lasers and those aerials he throws out. Get your out of shield options down pat. Shine oos, up smash oos, bair oos, nair oos. Against an aggressive Falco, your shield is your best friend.

As KAOSTAR suggested, don't throw out moves like full jump nair. You need to learn how to react to what your friend's doing instead of hoping your moves will hit him. Towards the end you jabbed his shield twice, and baited a roll. Instead of punishing him with a grab to start off a combo you ended up nairing thin air.

When Falco is off the stage, you have to make sure he dies. Bair is a better option against Falco's upB than uptilt.

When you spot openings for a grab, which don't appear very often against decent Falcos, you need to take advantage of them because they lead to easy combos and platform techchases from up throw.

When you knock Falco down, you need to keep him from getting back into a neutral position from which he can start lasering. When you had him on the ground at 0:42 you just stood there instead of immediately dashdancing or running up and shielding. Look for techs in place, punish techrolls, shield getup attacks, upsmash/shine bounces. Work on spotting his teching habits and predicting what he'll do.

Your tech skill seems to be pretty solid, and your recovery is decent. You just need to work on dealing with lasers and reacting to his approaches appropriately.

 

[Rud Lisi]

Thank you for the advice everyone, i really appreciate it. Unknown and SW, can u guys give any tips before i start changing up my game.

 

[Lovage]

u guys are pretty good

i'd say the biggest thing i saw was that you were getting shut down by his lasers. improve your speed and fluidity of movement on platforms so you can weave around his lasers and bair or shine him.

when dealing with his lasers you also need to use your shield a lot more. use your shield to block the laser and then wavedash out or jump and try to space a drill or nair on him. the faster you can block the laser and then get moving again the better.

 

[Rud Lisi]

Alright, ya i noticed that too. Thanks for the advice lovage

 

[Kanelol]

Is dair -> uptilt a legit combo

 

[voorhese]

Is dair -> uptilt a legit combo

i dont think dair -> anything is legit

 

[ChivalRuse]

Supposedly dair -> utilt combos if you land with your back to them.

 

[voorhese]

so could fox theoretically juggle with dair -> utilt -> dair -> utilt

 

[ChivalRuse]

It could work on a couple characters in some situations, but you can bet there are probably better options ...

 

[voorhese]

yah im sure, fox is the craziest character EVA

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

dair->utilt is a true combo that would be hard to sdi out of range. i believe you can actually combo dair->pivot utilt if you're fast enough.

you can actually combo dair into usmash if a few things go your way.

 

[JPOBS]

edit: internet fail

 

[JPOBS]

i always get confused when people ask "is X -> Y a true combo" because i dont know what they're saying.

theres so many things to take into account like DI, SDI, character weights etc that i personally find it impossible to answer any question like that without very specfic situations.

I mean hell upthrow -> upair isnt even a "legit combo" anymore if you wanna get serious about it :/

 

[Tomacawk]

Dair doesn't combo into utilt unless the last hit of the dair hits and you land right after (I am 75% sure of this). It combos into grab and shine 100% of the time, though. Also, dair utilt juggles are a bad idea because the dair could very easily be SDI'd out of. That doesn't mean you can't make it work though lol

 

[ChivalRuse]

Uthrow -> uair is pretty guaranteed on, say, Marth. >_>

 

[JPOBS]

^Tell that to Marths that actually bother to SDI.


Tomacawk: dair doesnt combo into grab 100% vs spacies. they can CC shine you.

 

[GOD!]

Uthrow uair used to be so amazing.. Why is SDIing so standard in this 2010 metagame?? sigh.

And dair > utilt won't work if they just rotate the stick from up to away to down and back the same way. Dair is like the easiest thing to SDI in the world. Unless they SDI it late (or not at all)and they SDI behind you, its not going to hit.

And people should drill grab more. Especially against puff. The timing is super easy to get down and they won't expect it, so 9/10 times they well always just DI the throw away or down, cause they expected a shine.

 

[ChivalRuse]

^Tell that to Marths that actually bother to SDI.

Fact: If there exists a Marth who always smash DIs the first hit of Fox's uair, there must also exist a Fox who always spaces the uair such that only the second hit connects.

 

[JPOBS]

Fact: If there exists a Marth who always smash DIs the first hit of Fox's uair, there must also exist a Fox who always spaces the uair such that only the second hit connects.

as much as i appreciate the philosophical worth of that statement, i see two problems with it:

1) Marths (and other characters but lets roll with marth) actually HAVE started to SDI Fox's upthrow->upair at least fairly consistently. It is a reality, it has happened. Fox's on the other hand, to my knowledge anyway, have yet to catch up to this increasing trend of marth sdi by spacing the upair properly. Im not saying that they cant or they wont, but they simply havent..yet.

2) Im not sure about this, but i would imagine that, while it is feasible to SDI a upthrow->upair 100% of the time, I dont think its feasible to space upair 100% such that only the second hit lands.

Im not speaking from a perspective of skill, im speaking strictly from a perspective of practicality. Fox has 3 jump heights, short, full, and DJ. thats it. Combined with things like the marth initially DI'ing the throw in certan directions, and certain percents being intrinsic "middle grounds" where on of your jump options wont reach, and another might take you too high, how is a fox supposed to "space" an upair EVERYTIME. Im inclined to believe that at certain percents/DI combinations, its actually impossible to space it such that only the second blow lands.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Fox has 3 jump heights, short, full, and DJ. thats it.

You can gain a large range of heights by interrupting the initial jump with a double jump at different points while Fox is rising.

 

[JPOBS]

well then I'll wait until fox's actually start doing that until i take back my statement.
for now, in the current metagame, i would be hesitant to make a statement like "upthrow->upair is garunteed"

it isnt necessarily going to be that way forever, but it is for me for now.

 

[Tomacawk]

Tomacawk: dair doesnt combo into grab 100% vs spacies. they can CC shine you.

it does if you hit them with the last hit of the dair

 

[ChivalRuse]

well then I'll wait until fox's actually start doing that until i take back my statement.

Uh ... like every half decent Fox does that. They don't space the uair perfectly, but they're still extremely accurate with the placement of the hitbox.

 

[KAOSTAR]

well then I'll wait until fox's actually start doing that until i take back my statement.
for now, in the current metagame, i would be hesitant to make a statement like "upthrow->upair is garunteed"

it isnt necessarily going to be that way forever, but it is for me for now.

Ppl do it all the time. its not insanely more difficult either. Ive seen ppl go out of their way to pivot the uair so that they smash DI back into the second hit.

now thats a mindgame lol.

 

[Kanelol]

I've been doing pretty consistent Dair -> Utilt combos on a Marth to ~80%, then just shine instead of Utilt and Upsmash.

Don't know if this would actually be viable against a good player, the Marth I fight happens to have awful DI >_<

 

[KAOSTAR]

Im pretty sure it works well enough to be used. Whether its a true combo or not isnt that important. I dont think players punish it consistently enough.

But ppl have been known to smash DI multiple hits of foxes dair and grab b4 u start your grab/uptilt

Do it if it works, if you get punished for it then consider stopping. But its not a bad technique.

 

[Milos]

if you land behind them then utilt is a good option cause if it pokes their shield they get ****ed up and if not you just dash away and laser or try and read whatever they do oos and punish

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

wow ok everyone in this thread throwing numbers and combos out don't know wtf they are talking about.

drill->utilt is a true combo FACT. it is much harder to sdi out of than drill->shine and drill->grab because of the range on the utilt. Because of the 5 frame startup on utilt, you can usually turn around before the utilt if you needed to.

drill->grab isn't always a true combo. As explained by magus, due to variations in the last hit of the dair and character weight (heaver characters receive less hitstun from dair than light ones), it is possible for them to sometimes get their shield up, but because of the starting time on buffered rolls and dodges it almost always works.

drill->usmash (same start up time as drill->grab, 7 frames) is a true combo in the times when they can't get their shield up. You guys should get moving on this on puffs, because she is one of the lightest characters, aka one of the most hitstun.

you cannot CC drill. fact. the only time you receive no lag from drill is when you get drilled in the air and land on the ground.

 

[KAOSTAR]

So are u saying you cannot smash DI out of the drill and get a grab off b4 the uptilt/grab?

And which way are you facing when you drill because you talk about turning around for the uptilt and its range. I assume you mean uptilting while facing away from them to get max range?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

no you can definitely not SDI out and grab before they can hit you first. You can get a grab if they try to shine and miss, though.

 

[JPOBS]

you cannot CC drill. fact. the only time you receive no lag from drill is when you get drilled in the air and land on the ground.

its not about CC'ing the drill in the same way as you CC another move and retaliate.

its more about holding down so that you can just mash B and if your opponent tries to grab you, your shine will come out before their grab.

I guess i should have said that instead of "CC" which is misleading.

Ppl do it all the time. its not insanely more difficult either. Ive seen ppl go out of their way to pivot the uair so that they smash DI back into the second hit.

now thats a mindgame lol.

Uh ... like every half decent Fox does that. They don't space the uair perfectly, but they're still extremely accurate with the placement of the hitbox.

I honestly have not seen this at all

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i have seen the pivot uair done to me... its really annoying XD

 

[Roneblaster]

can you shine-upsmash without having any forward momentum, aka standing still, and have the upsmash hit? Cause I cant, am i being too slow?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its hard, and if you get really **** di its still hard

u r able u throw shine turnaround upsmash

edit: I think ghost does it in one hif matches


im pretty sure you cant just be sstanding next to someone and shine usmash.

 

[Roneblaster]

i suck at this game, i cant do anything except for a few obscure things. i cant wave shine consistently at all. ;(

 

[Lovage]

yeah pretty sure you can't shine usmash if you're just standing right next to them unless they sdi really hard into you

you can shine usmash if they're right above you and they survival DI like zhu did in wombo combo

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You can also do it if you and your opponent are near the edge of the platform (your opponent being closer)

the shien knocks him off but the usmash hitbox goes a bit below fox, allowing it to hit



but its ******** because both of you have to be so close to the edge