Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Roneblaster]

so not all hope is lost then, maybe i can shine-upsmash. thanks guys.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its not that hard to land one...


you just have to be looking for the opprotunity

 

[voorhese]

ive been using waveshine to them (with back facing) -> shine bair (hold away) a lot for part of my shield pressure

i dont start with it, but its nice if im already turned around

this also works in combos for easy shinebairs

its pretty fun

 

[Kanelol]

someone wanna clear up exactly how to shine upsmash

i've tried WD'ing out of the shine into upsmash and it isnt working :<

 

[voorhese]

shine -> jump -> upsmash

(jump cancels the shine, upsmash cancels the jump)

 

[unknown522]

Fact: If there exists a Marth who always smash DIs the first hit of Fox's uair, there must also exist a Fox who always spaces the uair such that only the second hit connects.

I dunno about that. When I played/watched azen, he always SDI'd the u-air until the percent where only the second hit connects.....

But yeah, aside from him I never see anyone SDI it every time.

Also, I can get drill -> turnaround u-tilt to link on every character....but that's in training mode. Also drill (land behind them) -> turnaround dash attack on jiggs.....and drill -> SH n-air.

Drill -> u-tilt is so much easier to do on lighter characters. It's really hard on...say bowser/falcon/ganon/DK

 

[GOD!]

It's really hard on...say bowser/falcon/ganon/DK

Oh no, what am I going to do against bowser now? Now the matchup looks practically unwinnable...

But for real, why doesn't a marth or sheik just not DI uthrow and then they can tell exactly which way they need to SDI on the second hit? They would get baired but who cares?
And at percents where second hit would be the only hit, they could counter/jump/nair out.

It's not like DI is hard to follow anyway.

 

[unknown522]

I got lost on this post....

those suggestions are mostly percent-based. Also, if they don't DI, they will just get combo'd harder most likely.

 

[Kanelol]

About Shine Bair'ing/Nair'ing. Does it just take awful DI on your opponents part, or what?

 

[GOD!]

I'll try and explain better.

A sheik gets grabbed by a fox. The fox immediately uthrows. If you DI forward or backward, fox will have to running jump and uair. Although sometimes just SDIing the opposite way of what you originally DI works, if you can still DI into the second hit. If you didn't DI and were thrown straight up, you fox would be jumping straight up at you and you could see clearly where to DI.

But after further research, it looks like you can jump out at around 50% without a follow up if you DI. So forget this idea of not DIing.

EDIT: basically what happened here.

 

[unknown522]

oh, I understand. Also with the video explanation. Makes sense.

Gay fact about SDI: A lot of characters can mash left to right on the control stick to get out of the u-throw -> u-air. I was playing one of our locals and he misinterpreted what I said to him. So he started to mash the stick side-to-side with jiggs, and would get out of it every time I tried to do it. I think it failed 1/20 times. Actually, KK used to do that with sheik around the time he made the "how to SDI fox's u-air and not die" thread. We used to make fun of him for that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah thats what KDJ used to do. He described it as a fast dash dance. I just time mine because im weird.

 

[unknown522]

timing is cooler and so much better.

 

[JPOBS]

so wait, all anyone has to do is mash left-right on the stick and it will work almost 100% of the time?
thats pretty gay.

we need to delete these posts so no one ever finds out lol

 

[unknown522]

lol. I think there's a post about it somewhere......I think from mogwai

 

[DtJ Jungle]

cant you also sdi into the second hit as well?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Be less redundant in your posts mr. writer.

Yes theoretically you could SDI into the 2nd hit, but it would require you to press left on one frame and then right on the next during hitlag. Pretty difficult IMO

 

[Tomacawk]

Be less redundant in your posts mr. writer.

Yes theoretically you could SDI into the 2nd hit, but it would require you to press left on one frame and then right on the next during hitlag. Pretty difficult IMO

false.
they can mispace the upair to the left and hit with only the first hit, which you could accidentally SDI the left and get hit by the 2nd hit where you would have dodged it with no DI

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Be less redundant in your posts mr. writer.

Yes theoretically you could SDI into the 2nd hit, but it would require you to press left on one frame and then right on the next during hitlag. Pretty difficult IMO

i like being redundant

 

[PK Webb]

Is watchin pros play truly that benefical to improve I'm just curious

 

[Tomacawk]

Is watchin pros play truly that benefical to improve I'm just curious

it is beneficial to the same extent that you can dissect gameplay.
so it can be extremely beneficial or useless.

 

[JPOBS]

Imo watching pros play is almost pointless to imporvement because seeing that they did something is useless unless you know the REASON WHY doing that thing in that situation was good. and you cant always take away reason from video.

Much more productive ways to improve are:
-Sitting down and playing with a pro and having him tell you why he's beating you so badly. or askign him why he did that thing just now which was very effective in the moment
- theory crafting. Think about a certain situation and why it stumps you. then come up with an idea on how to beat it/over come it and finally
-putting your theories into practice and actually playing alot.

Once you reach a certain level of skill it becomes less necessary to play often because you alread understand the situations and appropriate responses, but in the process of becoming better, playing a fair amount is crucial imo.

so ya, i'd say watching vids is pointless other than for entertainement

 

[DtJ Jungle]

theory crafting is the bane of my existence

 

[Lovage]

Is watchin pros play truly that benefical to improve I'm just curious

it depends on if you're actively watching the videos and trying to improve, or if you're just passively watching them for entertainment

melee is a really fast and exciting game so it's easy to just be entertained by the combos and not be active in watching the video. if you actively watch the match, you can learn a lot of things. pay attention to how they deal with types of pressure, think about how their move choice is different from yours.

pretend you're playing the match as that character and take note of what they do differently in certain situations, was it better? was it worse? if you focus on the match you can really get into a player's head (you probably aren't right in knowing what they're thinking, but it's a good exercise)

that said, melee videos are a lot of fun to watch so there's nothing wrong with just sitting back and being entertained, but if you make use of them, videos can be a really good tool for improving.

 

[JPOBS]

theory crafting is the bane of my existence

lol how so?

theory crafting is basically the tool by which the metagame evolves.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i do it too much. as in i think about **** too much

ask teczero

 

[FoxLisk]

I watch a lot of pro matches for entertainment, and sometimes get ideas for combos or **** from them, but they're only really that useful if I have a real question to ask. Like recently i realized my laser game in falco vs. fox isn't working anymore, so I watched a bunch of high level falco v fox videos and asked myself why the falco lasered every time he did so, to figure out situations in which to laser, how to tell they're coming up, and how to follow up on them. that kind of real studying will improve your game, but you have to already know where you need to improve.

that said, it can never hurt. you will pick up on patterns and ideas and things that will improve your game, it will just be very slow unless you're asking the right questions.

 

[ChivalRuse]

When there's nobody around to play, I love watching videos. Sometimes I practice my tech skill too.

Edit: I just realized what I just wrote applies to everyone. Fail post.

 

[ArcNatural]

yeah thats what KDJ used to do. He described it as a fast dash dance. I just time mine because im weird.

KDJ basically said if you can do the Sheik Dashdance you could smash DI the upair the same way.

 

[KevinM]

Not that this is new or anything but in 2v2 having a fox grab near the edge and having your partner hit you for the grab release shenans are hilarious.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lmao i love those. If you do it from their recovery and don't pummel/throw they dont get their jump back and it messes a lot of ppl up.

 

[Flamin Roy]

hmm i don't know where to find fox v samus vids anyone can help???

 

[unknown522]

arcnatural, I love that girl in your sig.

I gotta find an asian chick

 

[PK Webb]

Is there a difference in the timing between waveshining out of a drill compared to waveshining out of nair/bair.......I never mess up drillshines but everything else in 50/50 so I'm just curious

 

[SuperRad]

there's a difference in at least two ways:
1) the difference between the timing of the aerial -> shine
2) the difference in how far the aerial sends them away

 

[Meneks]

Is there a difference in the timing between waveshining out of a drill compared to waveshining out of nair/bair.......I never mess up drillshines but everything else in 50/50 so I'm just curious

Yeah there is..
For drills it takes time for you to reach the ground so you L cancel later which means you shine later

 

[Tomacawk]

Due to drill having multiple hits, it takes longer to land when you hit people when compared to all fox's other aerials. If you whiff it, the timing is the same, though.

What do you guys think of this:
you upthrow falcon at high %, he lands on the top platform and whiffs his tech. Rather than waiting to see what he does or just dj bairing, why not fullhop shine, and stall in the shine? They pretty much always make a decision when they see you leave the ground, and it's a nice way to cover all options. Between bair and nair you can cover the entire plat

 

[KirbyKaze]

arcnatural, I love that girl in your sig.

I gotta find an asian chick

You and Paco should go out and **** one.

timing is cooler and so much better.

This.

 

[PK Webb]

How do u deal wit spacies that get knocked down and buffer spotdodges????even if I wait they shine right after and I don't get the grab....should I charge a fsmash or usmash or sumthing else

 

[Tomacawk]

if you knock a spacey down and they stand up, you need to know if you'll be there in time to grab them or not before than can dodge or roll. If they dodge, grab them. You should beat the shine. If you don't, then dd at a very fast brisk pace in front of them and grab them after the shine. Doing that, however, leaves you open to just being grabbed/ftilted/etc.
There is no "one" thing you should do, just many options that can be implemented to counter what they do.