Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Fortress | Sveet]

I have trouble shine bairing.

Halp.

PewPew More.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

that's weird you say that ruby, i've actually noticed that on me before, it's almost like i shoot more lasers as red, play more fluid/wavedash alot more as blue(never play the other 2) i think this might only be in effect when i play baked. not sure.

also i think it might be because i started as red and ive been known to laser alot(plus he's ****ing red) and i like blue because of the mexican falco twin, i love the way he moves with his WD'ing and all that

LOL thought this was the falco boards. this really only applys to my falco.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unknown522 posting (forgot to log out):

yea that's pretty hard to get around. something you can try is dashing around on the top platform, then jumping to the side platform and try to bair them. i mean they can't stay there the whole game so you have to make the most of it when they're out in the open.

another thing you can try is a very well spaced run up shield, they'll probably jump or dash back and you can try to bair them out of their jump or wavedash forward a bit and nair them out of their dash. dashing up to them and rolling behind them might work a few times if you space it correctly (so they can't shine in place when you finish rolling)

idk tho falco isn't one of my best matchups and all the falcos i play are super aggro and don't really camp like that much

Alright, thanks. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Da Shuffla]

I guess if you exclusively play one color, and the other person has it, it can get confusing.

If I ever have to play another color besides the one I "main," I'd just wear a tag.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I hate how I always have to approach Falco, and his shine somehow always happens before mine.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Yeah, I shine, and then I try to follow up, but then I realize it was his shine that hit, and I'm the one getting comboed.

Full hop Nair is all I know.

 

[XIII ways to die]

hey me and kyo were play fox v fox. well you know the down throw when you do it half off the ledge you spike em right. well this is wierd i down threw him but instead of it spiking him. i fall of and catch the ledge. tried it again rolled all the way over and down threw he didnt DI or tech or was even touching his controller yet i still fell off and caught the ledge.

just so there more datails. i was 1rst player he was 2econd. he down threw me i got spiked when i didnt tech. and again i threw him down nospike just me falling off the edge.
does anyone have an awnser for this. this works on fox v falco too

 

[RaynEX]

Kind of a noob question, but I wanted to be sure:

Whenever I get hit and go flying (pretty far) off the stage, I find myself with three options, none of which can be (practically) done at the same time:
1. Hold DI throughout, mash jump to get jump as soon as possible (since I've heard that jumping in the opposite direction of the flight cancels the original momentum)
2. Wiggle and mash jump so that right after hitstun ends, the tumble is immediately canceled (what the wiggling is for, since I've heard you can't jump during the tumble animation) and the jump is executed at the earliest possible moment
3. DI part way, then mash downB so your momentum is canceled at the first possible moment, then jumping out of it. I'm not sure whether downB can be done out of the tumble animation; otherwise this would make #2 obsolete

Experimentation has not done me much good, since it's always most critical when Fox is knocked outside of the screen, where it's hard to make out what's happening when. I was wondering if you guys knew the mechanics in such a way that one of these methods (or another I haven't considered) is clearly the best? There was a time when I thought wiggling reduced hitstun (lol) and thus made the choice even more nuanced and difficult to work out, but nowadays I think it's 1 or 3 depending on what can be done directly out of a tumble.

I hate to say it, but all of your listed options wouldn't help you much if you were trying to survive a death hit.

1. I think you just worded this one wrong. If you mean "survival d.i. correctly in anticipation of the trajectory I will be sent in, and jumping out as quickly as possible", then you are correct. That is what you should always be trying to do. The only variation in this method of surivival should be smash d.i., in which case you would time the d.i. input (i.e.: For Marth's fsmash sending you to the right, you'd tap and hold the stick up+left) so that you start d.i.ing the moment Marth hits you with his sword.

2. This is really bad. If you start wiggling after taking a hit at high percents, how can possibly control your trajectory? Randomizing the angles of your stick will shuffle your d.i. inputs, and most likely worsen a situation in which you could have survived. Dieing at 30-50% isn't uncommon because of bad d.i.

3. Don't stop d.i.ing until you're able to jump out. I'm relatively sure that stopping partway isn't good. Shining does nothing for your momentum. I think it does in Brawl, but not in Melee unfortunately.

The information I provided in response to your first option, is what you should be doing almost everytime you get hit.

Things to keep in mind:

-Remember that jumping out immediately isn't always the best option. Sometimes its easier to place your illusions and Firefox edge wall hugs with a lower, delayed jump.

-Shining after being knocked off is good in a few situations, but not for the reasons you stated. It allows you to hang in the air, and potentially avoid hasty edge-guard attempts wherein your opponent barrels off the stage towards you. You can jump out at any point in your shine stall.

-Omitting double jump from recoveries and doing quick illusions has been known to work. It keeps your opponent on his/her toes.

How in the wonderful world does a Kirby beat a Falcon?

A question that will haunt the minds of smash players for all eternity.

I hate how I always have to approach Falco, and his shine somehow always happens before mine.

Approach with dair. Try to stop yourself from nairing too much if they are below 30. Limit your moves and don't throw as many out, and maybe they won't get beaten as often. Spaced bairs and smart nairs I suppose? It is definitely one of the most annoying things in the match-up...I completely agree.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think I don't shield enough vs Falco, and when I do shield, it's at the wrong times. I also do dumb things like try to shieldgrab or shine oos too much and with poor timing.

 

[XIII ways to die]

dont put ourself down because i still make silly mistakes like that too. but thats only unitl i get the timing of every move for him. i just started maining him 2 weeks ago.

 

[`DNS`]

x+r =D

I think i use up for jc usmashes.. it makes the most sense to me

 

[Turazrok]

PewPew More.

If you can do it with falco then you are fast enough to do it with fox. It's all about positioning. You want to have the shine hit them at the very top point of it, just above fox's head.
you have a gun with infinite bullets.

**** hard reads
They shot more lasers.

 

[Tomacawk]

yo can really good foxes explain to me how I'm supposed to beat marth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4quedppgM8
I feel like marth has every advantage in the matchup in every situation except for when fox is under him
there's so many situations at low %s where marth can do a different throw or different move to give you almost no ability to hit your tech and utilts just keep comboing unless you DI behind him, which will get you spiked

 

[Turazrok]

yo can really good foxes explain to me how I'm supposed to beat marth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4quedppgM8
I feel like marth has every advantage in the matchup in every situation except for when fox is under him
there's so many situations at low %s where marth can do a different throw or different move to give you almost no ability to hit your tech and utilts just keep comboing unless you DI behind him, which will get you spiked

Shoot yourself with lasers until he can't combo you.

 

[Tomacawk]

real advice that hasn't been posted thirty times in the past 3 pages would be appreciated

 

[ChivalRuse]

That was actually a pretty original post. xD

 

[Turazrok]

Well fine. I like to space bairs. I bair camp like I'm playing barwl.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That doesn't really work on marth :/

From my side, i knew you were looking for the grab so i was doing my best to roll away when i saw you coming in for one. If you were in the air I was just DDing until you landed so i could get a grab...

To beat my rolls, you would have to bait it and grab me from my roll. you were doing fairly well to avoid the DD bait. I think maybe you should have punished my wiffed approaches a little better.

Its a hard matchup for both, and i really only know it from marth's side so sorry if this is uninformative XD

 

[Tomacawk]

nah joe I knew right away after the set that you were buffering a lot of rolls that I kept whiffing grabs on, I just didn't realize it until later in the set and I wasn't able to get out of auto pilot to punish it
what I couldn't figure out was how to get out of your grabs and how to recover
and obv. utilt combos are insanely gay
thanks tho

 

[Incronaut]

what are good ways to approach a falco?

Lasers stop my approach and they make me lose control too (do i really just have to platform camp til a falco does something stupid?)

 

[Tomacawk]

nair, shine, grab, and powershield are good approaches against falco. if they cc your nairs, then start using dair instead.
platform camping is preferred though

 

[Da Shuffla]

Can someone give me a link to a match with a Fox platform camping well? I'm still not exactly sure how it's done.

 

[PK Webb]

Toma iim in the same situation as u...um what's been helpin me a lil (emphase on lil) is when they go for aerials upon landing I run shine and upsmash which technically puts me under them which puts me at a advantage but its risky as balls....its just hard to get in period....I. honestly believe marth almost beats fox outright almost...him and falco r my worst fights

 

[JPOBS]

tomacawk, you need to use the platforms to change up your approach MUCH more.

you only approach the entire set was:
DD for a while -> run in grab.

and all sveet did was out DD camp you, and hen you whiffed the grab, he grabbed you and *stock*

the only time you ever approached from a platform was in game 3 on DL, about halfway in, you fell through the top platform with a Bair and then got a lightsheild edgehog. You need to do it more.

but if you're deadset on staying grounded and approaching with grabs, try to overshoot them, liek when you know he's DD camping you, run straight to where his Back dash would take him and grab at that spot instead of the forward dash animation.

 

[unknown522]

Can someone give me a link to a match with a Fox platform camping well? I'm still not exactly sure how it's done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZ1UGeNYqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3fXchu-ec

The set I had vs kage and vwins where I camped them back wasn't recorded. It was really gay.

 

[PK Webb]

How do u guys deal with frustration...like when I play I see a lot of things that opponent is gonna do but yet I still get hit....in turn it frustrates me then I lose interest if it happens often enuff....

Another question is does practicing against cpu rilly help ur tech...like does it make u consistent against humans cuz idk if it does since i mess up more often vs a human than a cpu

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I...don't understand how to camp.

I'm bad at it.

 

[Lovage]

you gotta be pretty good before you can camp successfully (like how unknown was doing against brandon)

if you don't know how to space yourself and you try it, you're prolly gonna get *****

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Like I'm thinking it's my mindset

In alot of those situations where HMW would approach him after camping the platforms i'd try to do something with it rather than hit and run.

 

[Incronaut]

what should i do against spaced b-airs? laser? space bair back?

 

[Tomacawk]

if they're spacing bairs, you can laser or bair yourself. if there is a way to get in, go for a usmash/grab/shine approach. if they're spacing well when they commit to a jump/double jump you can approach over their head and land with a bair of your own.

 

[Rubyiris]

Running shield?

 

[Da Shuffla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZ1UGeNYqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3fXchu-ec

The set I had vs kage and vwins where I camped them back wasn't recorded. It was really gay.

Okay, so basically, you move around on the platforms, lure them in with lasers, and then hit them with an aerial (Nair/Bair) when they try to get near you?

 

[PK Webb]

Kool stuff on that ledge info
When I see certain foxes waveshine sumtime they throw in waveshine nair but the nair almost looks instant...can sum1 tell me how its done or is it just pure finger speed

 

[Rubyiris]

New Fox vids from last months monthly. Advice would be wonderful. :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxp6cv9SGtE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlB5bBc834Y#t=4m18s

 

[PK Webb]

1 more thing....what r good followups if I throw falcon/falco up at low percent and they land on a platform??????

 

[Animal]

T.webb go give my fox some advice!

 

[BluePeachy100]

I don't trust Fox's lasers, I feel like if I start shooting, I'll get *****. Any advice on when it's best to laser?

 

[PK Webb]

On dat **** like butter on my bagel

 

[Rubyiris]

1 more thing....what r good followups if I throw falcon/falco up at low percent and they land on a platform??????

waveland onto the platform usmash/regrab.

follow their tech with uair.

wait for them to roll/get up/get up attack then uair them