Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Blatt Blvd]

lol canada

 

[Iliad]

Swordgard, I really wish you wouldn't talk without knowing. I'm not even truly active within the ontario community and I know for a fact there's been a debate since GOML1 about banning mk from tourney play.

Lack of attendance, veterans leaving the scene, lack of fun at tourneys to a point that now the only source of lols and fun seems to be playing ****ing RPS (Rock paper scissors for those who don't know about the intense tourney play RPS luls.)

The game used to be fun. But like any game, and yeah this applies to any game. You can only play against the same character for a set amount of time before it becomes dull. MK has more or less killed the competitive scene in Ontario.

And sword. It wasn't instigated because TO Joe planked once. It's because every mk there has pulled off some kind of bull**** upset where there should not have been an upset. Now I wish that Holy had thrown his match against you so you woulda played Phil. If he had ***** you as he said he would have, you would have been just as "buthurt" as everyone else in ontario. Guaranteed.

 

[Red Arremer]

[...]
lack of fun at tourneys to a point that now the only source of lols and fun [...]

The game used to be fun [...]

Fun is not an argument, as it's extremely subjective, and different people have different views on what's fun or not.

Quit using it.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

So is he banned or not? I kind of hope he is.

 

[:mad:]

So is he banned or not? I kind of hope he is.

Didn't you vote anti-ban?

 

[MorphedChaos]

Fun is not an argument, as it's extremely subjective, and different people have different views on what's fun or not.

Quit using it.

Don't bash people for their opinions mate. He says MK makes the game less fun, so let him have that.

 

[Red Arremer]

Don't bash people for their opinions mate. He says MK makes the game less fun, so let him have that.

I don't bash him, I said that this is not a valid argument, because it's not an argument at all.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Didn't you vote anti-ban?

ya, but i main olimar so...........

 

[HooDNiNja]

brawl should never be compared to SF4 or any other fighter....
i thougt this was a debate onto ban mk or not

*gets more popcorn*

 

[:mad:]

ya, but i main olimar so...........

I main Mario, a garbage, non-tournament viable character. He's my second worst matchup.

But that doesn't make me immune to logic or reasoning. I thought about this after reading both arguments, then voted.

Maybe you should've done the same.

Nobody mentioned SF recently. You are dumb, Mr. HoodNinja.

 

[swordgard]

Swordgard, I really wish you wouldn't talk without knowing. I'm not even truly active within the ontario community and I know for a fact there's been a debate since GOML1 about banning mk from tourney play.

Lack of attendance, veterans leaving the scene, lack of fun at tourneys to a point that now the only source of lols and fun seems to be playing ****ing RPS (Rock paper scissors for those who don't know about the intense tourney play RPS luls.)

The game used to be fun. But like any game, and yeah this applies to any game. You can only play against the same character for a set amount of time before it becomes dull. MK has more or less killed the competitive scene in Ontario.

And sword. It wasn't instigated because TO Joe planked once. It's because every mk there has pulled off some kind of bull**** upset where there should not have been an upset. Now I wish that Holy had thrown his match against you so you woulda played Phil. If he had ***** you as he said he would have, you would have been just as "buthurt" as everyone else in ontario. Guaranteed.

And what if i beat him? I destroyed him yesterday in our online ladder match(he tried to nado as i predicted, i punished him every time). And even if i did lose, id have only myself to blame since the matchup is 5-5 with ics. No bull****, no nothing. It would have been my fault, and i would have aknowledged it. You guys just need to step it up.

 

[HooDNiNja]

I main Mario, a garbage, non-tournament viable character. He's my second worst matchup.

But that doesn't make me immune to logic or reasoning. I thought about this after reading both arguments, then voted.

Maybe you should've done the same.

Nobody mentioned SF recently. You are dumb, Mr. HoodNinja.

i dont care if it was recent or not. but someone did mention it. but since this thread is comprised of people who talk **** on the web...im just gonna get some more popcorn and enjoy the show

 

[MorphedChaos]

I don't bash him, I said that this is not a valid argument, because it's not an argument at all.

Oh, sorry. Ya know, I think I said that because you reminded me of Yuna for a second there O.o. Sorry.

 

[BSP]

this thing is still going on?

 

[ShadowLink84]

i dont care if it was recent or not. but someone did mention it. but since this thread is comprised of people who talk **** on the web...im just gonna get some more popcorn and enjoy the show

oh word?
*reports*
Quit trolling

 

[HooDNiNja]

oh word?
*reports*
Quit trolling

...wtf is a troll

 

[ShadowLink84]

What am I supposed to be seeing? M2K gained NOTHING from the use of EDC in that video. NOTHING. Not even a percent.

Instead of assuming the technique is banworthy, instead PROVE that it is vanworthy by showing its application.

Oh, wait, the pro-banners only have theory. This sounds just like the basis for every argument they have.

Being able to move across the stage faster than Sonic while invincible and invisible is a very neat thing dont you think? And certainly helps him get out of a bad situation since the startup is minimal and the speed and cooldown time for the move definitely make up for the bit of start up.

You're way to quick to throw the word theory around.

 

[pastaboy]

swordgard its easy for an ic main to say step it up in the mk match up LOL. Not many characters go even with him.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Are we really... are we really going to go through this? Okay, so M2K used the Dimensional Cape to put himself in a neutral position. Let's say that this technique becomes as good as the way M2K pulls it off.

Now, do you realize that this is going to have a marginal effect, if any, on Metaknight's matchups because escaping perilous situations is something we already know that Metaknight can do? Do you know that in almost every other situation pertaining to this, where the Metaknight's in a perilous situation, the Metaknight would likely be better off using his frame 2 up-air, his almost as quick but still far-reaching down-air, his frame 5 invincibility Shuttle Loop (5-8 if MK's on the ground), or the mutha-froggin whorenado, which has extreme priority everywhere except for the top? This isn't going to make Metaknight noticably better for using the technique, and it certainly, unrefutably does not fix any of the weaknesses that Metaknight has.

EDC is not breaking Metaknight.

Not in theory.

Not in practice.

No.

Well, ****. My apologies, DC is the ONE move that the Metaknight boards don't have frame data on. Suffice it to say, the move has much more start-up time than most of Metaknight's other options in that type of situation and he isn't invulnerable until he disappears. If EDC is used, then he is forced to use the laggy attack, or simply re-appear (which is not dangerous due to there being a small amount of lag before they can attack). Metaknight can be tracked using the position of the camera (its awkward, but very doable if you have payed attention to the way the camera moves in other matches). Here is the thing, the re-appear animation is enough to punish if you are in position (which you should be if you are following. Make sure to always stay on the inside of the stage so it is easier to follow the fast pace that he moves at) and he can't attack out of the re-appear animation. If the Metaknight chooses to attack, they run the risk of getting hit due to the poor range on the attack and the large amount of lag afterward. All you need to do as a player is keep track and stay close. Its not guaranteed by any means, but it works. And again, if they are staying in it for three seconds or more (MUCH more than enough time to travel the distance of FD) then you pause and call a TO over to watch the rest of the match.

Its just another option, nothing more. Does it change any of his MUs? Does it change anything really? If you want to prove the option broken, do so with evidence rather than a baseless hypothesis. Also, the burden of proof in on pro-ban and not anti-ban due to it being their hypothesis that Metaknight ruins the game. Anti-ban has no responsibility to provide any proof unless proof is given by the pro-ban side. This is why AA gave his information regarding characters that have placed in tourneys other than Metaknight. PLEASE make sound arguments rather than simply spouting off at the anti-ban side. I now understand why Yuna and RDK have a tendency to be rude towards the pro-ban side. I don't condone it, but I sure as **** understand it now.

Edit: Also, if you are that worried about it, use Mario and use this.

Can we stop discussing this now?

The arguement that has been made in the past is that during the trial period that Metaknight would "fall too greatly behind" and "never" be able to catch up again once the temp ban was lifted. Basically, because he wouldn't be used in competition, all the players who play as him would essentially forget how to play as him in such a setting and everybody would get a huge boost from him being gone so he'd basically be like Jigglypuff with a sword upon coming back. What's even more laughable is that this isn't too far off from things that people have actually said in the matter. I think this was somewhat seriously discussed the first time this poll was held.

Actually, here's the argument.

1) A temp ban is unnecessary unless something's banworthy anyway, and it's still unnecessary.
2) A temp ban wouldn't even work.
3) A temp ban wouldn't "let other characters catch up."
4) A temp ban would just condition more people to have a pro-ban mentality, leading to a permanent ban.

1) If something isn't banworthy, why would you ban it temporarily? Heck, if something is banworthy, why would you ban it temporarily? If it's the former, there's no point, as if it shouldn't be permanently banned it shouldn't be temporarily banned. And if it's the latter, why not just permanently ban it instead of temporarily?

2) For a temp ban to work, every T.O. would have to agree to S.B.R. ruling for that time. Not everyone agrees with it now, as seen by MK banned tournaments, and less people seem to agree with a temp ban, so why would every T.O. do it? You'd probably have a bit more tournaments actually banning MK, but many ignoring the ruleset. Quite a bit of Midwest and EC tournaments probably wouldn't ban him, as they don't find him a problem anyway.

3) How can you judge that MK's metagame is months ahead of other people's? What specifically about his metagame exists because of the time and amount of people who use him? What discoveries have been made baout his offensive and defensive games throughout the past couple of months that wouldn't help with any other character?

People would probably still be playing MK in friendlies or some tournaments. And while people would be playing other characters as well, many wouldn't worry about learning the MK match-up. Why? It wouldn't be necessary for the 3-6 months he's banned, as depending on where you live, you're not going to ever have to fight one.

4) A lot more people would be convinced by the tournament "diversity" that MK would warrant a permanent ban. When you remove the largest single character people use from tournaments, all those people have to use different characters, giving you much different placings than you would have. 3 months wouldn't solidify an "MK-gone" metagame. It would be difficult to see the best option with him gone, or less viable options with him gone, just because a lot of good or not so good players would have to change characters.

See above. Oh and the metagame excuse has basically been a way to buy time. A year and two months have passed since Metaknight overtook Snake and nothing's really changed when it comes to "Metaknight counters". Yoshi's Island Melee was banned and so were Corneria and Green Hill Zone. Diddy rose and then fell.

Diddy rose and then fell.

Mind explaining? Being a Diddy main myself, I don't see this "fact" that you enjoy saying.

Please elaborate.

 

[Remzi]

AvaricePanda: We don't close the topic of EDC till I get a legit reply to this.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8001296&postcount=5127

 

[Masmasher@]

Even if it hasnt been directed to you...its been debunked several times

 

[Palpi]

Don't bash people for their opinions mate. He says MK makes the game less fun, so let him have that.

metaknight makes the game more fun for me and I don't even main him. It is legit proof right here to not ban mk.

 

[AvaricePanda]

It does not push you much further, but the push you get is usually just enough to get you out of range. The one M2K did was more than one tap of the c-stick.

It will make people paranoid. Let's look at this scenario:

I'm pressuring an MK, I fair him and he does a standard DC away from me. He timed it well and I was unable to punish, I think to myself "hey i think he went a little further than normal, i think i may have heard a clicking sound when he did it too" so I end up calling over a TO and we have a bunch of problems that can't be solved by either side. I'm swearing my *** off that he pushed up on the c-stick and went way further than usual. The TO decides to watch the rest of the match and nothing happens for the remainder of the match. All in all we caused some heart-ache, after the match I'm still convinced he did it. Me and that player now have a lot of problems, the TO now has trouble trusting both players.

Why would he not punish your F-air with a shielded Shuttle Loop, or punish the lag with tornado/N-air/F-air/really anything? Why would he DC away when there's plenty of start-up lag to the DC, and you could just Dolphin Slash him out of it? Retreating with a DC or EDC is far from the most rewarding option in this scenario.

Plus, where on the stage were you? Assuming you weren't cornered by the ledge (as I can't imagine a Marth being able to pressure an MK when the Marth is right at the ledge) and you were somewhere near the middle 3/5ths of the stage if you cut it into 5 sections, why can you just chase and punish him for DCing away even if you didn't catch him at the start-up? The ending lag should definitely be enough for that, allowing you to dancing blade or upB or whatever you want to do.

Realistically, one tap up on the c-stick doesn't even make it unpunishable anyway. He'd have to do multiple, to the point where it's obvious that he did an extended dimensional cape, and it's obvious for anyone watching.

But assuming, for whatever reason, you couldn't punish him for the DC or EDC (even though one tap on the c-stick shouldn't suddenly make it unpunishable), and he got away with it, then darn. You could have punished it easily, but you didn't. Call a T.O., and they watch the rest of the match (and most likely the set unless they don't have any other problems) and he doesn't do it anymore. Yes, there's tension because you just called over a T.O. for one extension of a dimensional cape, but oh darn, tension.

Now lets look at another scenario:

I'm playing an MK, last stock and high percents. Game 3. I pressure him to the edge of the stage and he EDCs to the middle. I dash > usmash in an attempt to punish and win, but it whiffs because of the extra distance. He punishes with Dsmash for the kill and win. I'm pretty sure he used EDC so I call the TO. No proof. Just both of us promising our side of the story is true. MK takes the win.

Same problem with above.

Why couldn't you punish the start-up lag? Why couldn't you just turn around and F-smash, dash and dancing blade, dash and upB, turn around and D-smash, turn around and D-tilt, etc.; if you're pressuring him at the ledge and he's going to DC to the middle, he's not very far from you, even if he presses up on C-stick once. If it goes to the point where the distance gained isn't controversial and you can clearly see that he used EDC, you pause the match, call a T.O., and tell him exactly what happened.

In either scenario, witnesses aren't really sure either. They don't wanna make the wrong call so they abstain from answering. Or if they do call it, theres a good chance they make the wrong one.

How are the witnesses not really sure either? If they're watching the match, they're probably paying more attention to everything than you are, as they don't have to worry about the pressure/spacing/game in general. They can notice the opponent tapping up on the c-stick, they can see a DC went further than usual and they can just say, "He used EDC."

There's a much less chance that a witness makes the wrong call than a player does. I can see why they might be biased if the MK is their friend, but there's just as much of a chance that you're their friend. Plus it could have been punished, plus it shouldn't be that hard to tell if you hear a c-stick tap up and notice that a dimensional cape went further than usual.

Also, REPLAYS. Many Wiis have unlimited replay hack. Use it if it's possible.

You could also just test the distance if you're having a dispute with the person. "DC doesn't go that far!" "Yes it does!" Go to another Wii, go to training mode, go to where the MK was on the stage and DC to test the distance. It isn't that practical, but it works if nothing else does.

This will cause far too many problems if people start using it at all

Again, no.

You also didn't even respond to the other two posts I quoted, just said, "Read mine!" EDC is hardly the best option for MK to use in 98% of his options. Recovering from the ledge, like M2K showed, is probably the only practical application of it, but even then he still not only has other options, but it's easy to tell if he used EDC or not.

It's not that good in the first place, it's banned anyway, and it's fairly easy to tell whether or not someone did it if you just pay attention.

 

[MarKO X]

EDC has not been debunked.
The anti-ban have been out here speaking about "theory is crap" and "it's nothing more than hypothesis."

So I provide this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8002246&postcount=5224

And apparently, I'm told
1) this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8002303&postcount=5234,
2) this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8002395&postcount=5243,
3) this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8002480&postcount=5248,
4) and this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8002615&postcount=5252

1) To this point, I already said that I do not agree with it at all. You have NO IDEA where the regular DC would've ended up. You can't prove that you know where the regular DC would end up, you're just theorizing, especially since the regular DC also has varying distances!
2) To this point, you're theorizing that doing attacks that still have a risk known as a hurtbox are better than doing an attack that allows you to travel stages without a hurtbox.... can I laugh?
3) To this point, LOL. I have nothing to back up what? That there is no hurtbox? And now you wanna say that I don't know about what Dojo was thinking when this happened? Does what Dojo felt when it happened even matter? Even if he said, "it was a good move, no johns," doesn't mean it's not a broken move.
4) To this point, you can't be serious. Like I said, anti-ban says, no theory plz, and yet what is this? Theory. You don't have the frame data for DC, but you can just say that it has more than 11 frames of startup (the number of frames nado takes to startup, which has the longest startup of the possible options in that situation)? You also say that all you have to do is keep track of your opponent... easier said than done considering the fact that no matter how the camera may track it, you can't see your opponent. Also, staying in the EDC for longer than 3 seconds isn't the issue here. I'm not talking about stalling, I'm talking about being unable to hit what you can't see.

LOL @ all this theory the anti-ban side provided. Well, f*ck theory then, I challenge you to try out the EDC. Find someone who is competent enough to play Brawl, show them how to EDC if they don't know how to do it already, and play a couple serious matches with it. Be MK with EDC going up against a charater of choice and go against MK with EDC with a character of choice.

Have fun with that. You wanna talk about hard evidence? Try EDC yourself then, because you've done nothing but provided theory. Couple of things I want you to get about EDC:

1) Get how you don't have to move. (lol mindgames)
2) Get a good feel for how much startup and cooldown this move has.
3) Get at how you fast you can infact do something after this move is done, specifically nado, SL, and another EDC.

Once you try the move yourself, you'll better understand it rather than theorize about how it doesn't help MK.

Have a nice weekend, I'm done with this for now, and I'm practically convinced now.

 

[highfive]

Meta Knight is the short chap with a yellow sword and a cape and a mask right? We'll, I think you could beat him by hitting him while he swings his sword.

 

[bobson]

You don't have the frame data for DC, but you can just say that it has more than 11 frames of startup (the number of frames nado takes to startup, which has the longest startup of the possible options in that situation)?

13 frames startup, 28 frames cooldown. 55 frames cooldown if you use the sword attack out of it.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

If a temp ban doesn't help (?) then it doesn't help.

I'm part of the Midwest. I agree with this info, MK doesn't dominate the tournaments over here, players like Ally (Snake) and Anther (Pika) do that. As long as they ban his stalling techniques (all of them) that should be fair for anyone. He's not really broken for one.

 

[MorphedChaos]

EDC is amazing. Its basically "Go wherever on the stage you want" move with no coincidences, which could screw over Snakes mine game for example. Not to mention its not all that hard to do. Do Down B, hold Down, tap Cstick up repeatedly, done.

The only way to get rid of EDC is to ban MK's cape. Banning a move means that you've banned something for MK and only MK. So why not go further and ban MK altogether?

 

[Remzi]

Why would he not punish your F-air with a shielded Shuttle Loop, or punish the lag with tornado/N-air/F-air/really anything? Why would he DC away when there's plenty of start-up lag to the DC, and you could just Dolphin Slash him out of it? Retreating with a DC or EDC is far from the most rewarding option in this scenario.

He didn't know I was going to fair, I didn't know he was going to use DC. We aren't mind readers, we are game players =)

MK felt pressured, Shuttle Loop isn't 100% safe in that scenario. Nor are any of his options really. Sometimes, a player just isn't comfortable and needs to reset to neutral. With EDC, you can do that at any time.

Plus, where on the stage were you? Assuming you weren't cornered by the ledge (as I can't imagine a Marth being able to pressure an MK when the Marth is right at the ledge) and you were somewhere near the middle 3/5ths of the stage if you cut it into 5 sections, why can you just chase and punish him for DCing away even if you didn't catch him at the start-up? The ending lag should definitely be enough for that, allowing you to dancing blade or upB or whatever you want to do.

In this scenario, I could have punished. He didn't actually use EDC.

Realistically, one tap up on the c-stick doesn't even make it unpunishable anyway. He'd have to do multiple, to the point where it's obvious that he did an extended dimensional cape, and it's obvious for anyone watching.

No, one c-stick tap should be enough to get him out. Maybe not against a character like Marth with an extremely fast dashing speed (even then he should be fine, thanks to marth having to land first, and the EDC moving extremely fast), but against most he will get out unharmed.

But assuming, for whatever reason, you couldn't punish him for the DC or EDC (even though one tap on the c-stick shouldn't suddenly make it unpunishable), and he got away with it, then darn. You could have punished it easily, but you didn't. Call a T.O., and they watch the rest of the match (and most likely the set unless they don't have any other problems) and he doesn't do it anymore. Yes, there's tension because you just called over a T.O. for one extension of a dimensional cape, but oh darn, tension.

Many situations like this one will be occurring if people starting abusing this tactic. Imagine, almost every time someone uses DC and gets away unharmed, the opponent will question it (maybe not vocally, though).

Same problem with above.

Why couldn't you punish the start-up lag? Why couldn't you just turn around and F-smash, dash and dancing blade, dash and upB, turn around and D-smash, turn around and D-tilt, etc.; if you're pressuring him at the ledge and he's going to DC to the middle, he's not very far from you, even if he presses up on C-stick once. If it goes to the point where the distance gained isn't controversial and you can clearly see that he used EDC, you pause the match, call a T.O., and tell him exactly what happened.

You obviously don't realize how fast you move in DC. Punishing it is unrealistic. What happens when I call the TO? He won't be able to do anything about it if theres no footage.

How are the witnesses not really sure either? If they're watching the match, they're probably paying more attention to everything than you are, as they don't have to worry about the pressure/spacing/game in general. They can notice the opponent tapping up on the c-stick, they can see a DC went further than usual and they can just say, "He used EDC."

There's a much less chance that a witness makes the wrong call than a player does. I can see why they might be biased if the MK is their friend, but there's just as much of a chance that you're their friend. Plus it could have been punished, plus it shouldn't be that hard to tell if you hear a c-stick tap up and notice that a dimensional cape went further than usual.

Unless a witness is watching for it, chances are he isn't so into the match that he'd actually be 100% sure on either side. And even if he is watching closely, not everyone will always be able to make the right call. It can be pretty close sometimes. And theres possible bias from witnesses.

Also, REPLAYS. Many Wiis have unlimited replay hack. Use it if it's possible.

You could also just test the distance if you're having a dispute with the person. "DC doesn't go that far!" "Yes it does!" Go to another Wii, go to training mode, go to where the MK was on the stage and DC to test the distance. It isn't that practical, but it works if nothing else does.

The fact that you think this would solve anything is laughable. Who the hell is gonna be like "hmm, i guess it is closer to the EDC distance. Ok I cheated." They'll deny that it went that far in game.

Again, no.

You also didn't even respond to the other two posts I quoted, just said, "Read mine!" EDC is hardly the best option for MK to use in 98% of his options. Recovering from the ledge, like M2K showed, is probably the only practical application of it, but even then he still not only has other options, but it's easy to tell if he used EDC or not.

He can also warp to the ledge from anywhere on stage. Or if he is pressured he can reset to neutral. MK has a much easier time than all other characters getting into an advantageous stage from neutral, so being able to reset to neutral at will is amazing.

It's not that good in the first place, it's banned anyway, and it's fairly easy to tell whether or not someone did it if you just pay attention.

If you have a TO watching for it, then it's no problem. Otherwise, it is.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Meta Knight is the short chap with a yellow sword and a cape and a mask right? We'll, I think you could beat him by hitting him while he swings his sword.

theres a reason i call him shorty :smug:

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

It hurts the community more than not banning him. Banning EDC isn't getting rid of the entire move. You can still use DC, but that move alone just doesn't have as much use with other stuff in MK's arsenal.

 

[ThatAintTripping]

I have a question about Akuma in Super Turbo. I'm being serious and not trolling, but I don't know too much about SF, so sorry if the answer is obvious or something.

But Super Turbo was the first version of Street Fighter to ever have a secret character: the untouchably good Akuma. Most characters in that game cannot beat Akuma. I don’t mean it’s a tough match—I mean they cannot ever, ever, ever, ever win. Akuma is “broken” in that his air fireball move is something the game simply wasn’t designed to handle.

So if his air fireball is the primary reason that Akuma is broken, why didn't they simply ban the move? It's very discrete (moreso than Planking, ledgegrabs, and whatever the latest shenanigans with DC are), and you could save another character in the game. To the best of my knowledge, Akuma is a great character, but air fireball makes him obscenely broken. So why not just ban it and salvage a good character? Why can we ban various tactics/moves for MK when they couldn't ban a single move for Akuma?

 

[Masmasher@]

I have a question about Akuma in Super Turbo. I'm being serious and not trolling, but I don't know too much about SF, so sorry if the answer is obvious or something.


So if his air fireball is the primary reason that Akuma is broken, why didn't they simply ban the move? It's very discrete (moreso than Planking, ledgegrabs, and whatever the latest shenanigans with DC are), and you could save another character in the game. To the best of my knowledge, Akuma is a great character, but air fireball makes him obscenely broken. So why not just ban it and salvage a good character? Why can we ban various tactics/moves for MK when they couldn't ban a single move for Akuma?

Sorry there was way more to akuma than that. Damage output, easy dizzy combos, red fireball locks, Teleport that is invisible on startup and ending and is VIRTUALLY UNPUNISHABLE. i could go on and on.
Also its dumb to restrict a character like that
So no...
Also LOL AT people trying to make evidence to ban metaknight cause of EDC. A weak arguement

 

[TP]

I don't think MK is broken at all and an MK ban would be great for me (Ganon main, ROB secondary), but I voted pro-ban because of Iliad's posts. Good job, Iliad.

 

[hotgarbage]

hm, since it's the topic of discussion I decided to do what I was due to do months ago and finally get frame data for MK's (non-EDC) grounded dimensional cape:

Breakdown:
1-17
18-27 invincibility frames
28-54 cooldown

Summary:
total cooldown: 27
total invincibility frames:10

Random notes:
- despite MK turning invisible on frame 13, he does not receive invincibility frames until frame 18
- MK can move around starting on frame 14

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I main Mario, a garbage, non-tournament viable character. He's my second worst matchup.

But that doesn't make me immune to logic or reasoning. I thought about this after reading both arguments, then voted.

Maybe you should've done the same.

I did, i read both arguments and voted anti-ban because i didnt think he was ban worthy. That doesnt mean i would hate him being banned as long as it helps me out in tourneys.

 

[Masmasher@]

I did, i read both arguments and voted anti-ban because i didnt think he was ban worthy. That doesnt mean i would hate him being banned as long as it helps me out in tourneys.

^This guy is legit

 

[Kamikaze*]

God dammit, just ban the ****ing EDC.

 

[Red Arremer]

Sorry there was way more to akuma than that. Damage output, easy dizzy combos, red fireball locks, Teleport that is invisible on startup and ending and is VIRTUALLY UNPUNISHABLE. i could go on and on.
Also its dumb to restrict a character like that
So no...

Yea, though the fireballs were what made the character have like 90:10 the whole cast, lol.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That's the problem Kamikaze-it's really hard to do.