Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[thrillagorilla]

Does it have to be implied? It sort of already is xD

But it doesn't HAVE to be, nor was it INTENDED to be. Just because you see it that way doesn't mean everyone else has too.

Also, could someone please present an actual argument (ban criteria and how Metaknight as well as other things that are ban worthy fit it) as opposed to complaining that Metaknight is a good character? And don't point at the opening argument from pro-ban, I dismantled it last night.

 

[momochuu]

This avatar and title is very fitting.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Reposting incase you missed this.

there is a difference between just not being balanced, and something that is out of the loop of not being balanced. Its a bit confusing how I said it, but this applies to each character. Other then MK, you have the opportunity,the privilege, to put your opponent in a slight disadvantage. MK on the other hand, your only option is at best a even case. Even if even is all you need, due to the fact that you are limited on the options that you can not even force him into a slightly bad situation as a C/P, it is something that is out of the loop. ESP. for a game that is semi based around C/Ping people

Right, because MK is the best character with the best match ups. Best =/= broken.

This is just going to end up going in circles. My response to this will just end up being the same as my response to everything before. He has even match ups, player skill is the deciding factor, that's not broken, etc, etc. That's the most important thing for me.

 

[Divinokage]

By all means name an example that didn't get banned or soft banned by the community.



So not what they meant...

I know I'm just stating something that I know from experience.

 

[Rykoshet]

He has even match ups

Assuming you lost a match or "are diddy kong on battlefield and are delusional"

 

[Red Arremer]

This avatar and title is very fitting.

I admit, I lol'd.

 

[Omni]

By all means name an example that didn't get banned or soft banned by the community.

1.) Super Smash Bros. 64
2.) Street Fighter 4

Street Fighter 4 does not have a "soft" ban on Sagat. In Japan, 8 out of the 15 top players are Sagats. Mago's Sagat is #1 over Daigo's Ryu. Japan has always been more dominant than the US players since... forever.

NinjaEdit: Karina, I'm gonna' fight you. ;O

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This avatar and title is very fitting.

Post goatse and we can be done with this mess.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No, it isn't.

People have a problem with the fact that Metaknight is not countered by "Character X" because that's what they've been breastfed since Melee.

Rewind time and you'll find Pikachu having zero counters. Look outside the box and you'll find other best characters in other games having no counters.

So now that Smash has a game with a new best character, everyone's panties get caught in a bunch. "How unfair for a character to exist where I can't have the advantage by choosing another character."

Pro-ban has a few legitimate arguments, but the mentality of most pro-ban players is that of a scrub.

I'm saying Brawl is like rock,paper, scissors because of that fact how majority of characters have neutrals, advantages, disadvantages. If you go to a tournament as Yoshi, it's almost like your picking rock when everyone else is picking paper. You are more than likely going to not win the tournament except for those few people that pick scissors. You choose someone else that will be a paper to everyone elses paper, you can win the stalemates.

If you choose scissors to the paper fest in the tourney, and all of those rocks are eliminated by the paper, you have a great chance at winning the tourney.

Now if you actually want me to compare this to MK, I don't see a connection.

 

[MarKO X]

1.) Super Smash Bros. 64
2.) Street Fighter 4

Street Fighter 4 does not have a "soft" ban on Sagat. In Japan, 8 out of the 15 top players are Sagats. Mago's Sagat is #1 over Daigo's Ryu. Japan has always been more dominant than the US players since... forever.

I dunno... from this thread I heard that Sagat was softbanned at Evo...

explains why no Sagats hit top 8 if top players aint playing him... if its true...

 

[Rykoshet]

We're just going to flat out ignore the 2 other characters in sf4 that are banned though, right? They left one character there and he's pretty much ripping the game a new *******, sounds familiar.

 

[Red Arremer]

By all means name an example that didn't get banned or soft banned by the community.

To chip in to Omni's post:
Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
Immaterial and Missing Power
Guilty Gear XX blablaiforgotwhichexactly

 

[POKE40]

By all means name an example that didn't get banned or soft banned by the community.

Melee, I win.
Can I has cookie?
<3
jk

 

[thrillagorilla]

This avatar and title is very fitting.

...

*shakes head and laughs a bit*

I forgot, just in case someone missed it, the counter argument I gave is here.

 

[yellowroy]

1.) Super Smash Bros. 64
2.) Street Fighter 4

Street Fighter 4 does not have a "soft" ban on Sagat. In Japan, 8 out of the 15 top players are Sagats. Mago's Sagat is #1 over Daigo's Ryu. Japan has always been more dominant than the US players since... forever.

NinjaEdit: Karina, I'm gonna' fight you. ;O

is that title from flight of the conchords?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Then you marths have a ****ing problem cause I read other things, Dont change your minds every week <,<

What are you saying?

What credible Marth thinks the MU is 55:45? Where the **** are you getting this info?

 

[Divinokage]

I'm saying Brawl is like rock,paper, scissors because of that fact how majority of characters have neutrals, advantages, disadvantages. If you go to a tournament as Yoshi, it's almost like your picking rock when everyone else is picking paper. You are more than likely going to not win the tournament except for those few people that pick scissors. You choose someone else that will be a paper to everyone elses paper, you can win the stalemates.

If you choose scissors to the paper fest in the tourney, and all of those rocks are eliminated by the paper, you have a great chance at winning the tourney.

In an actual match, unfortunately there are too many variables to be called only rock, paper, scissors. Everything is situational.

 

[Rykoshet]

*

Chun being the example, right? Despite the game being dominated in a three way tie by chun ken and yun and from what I gather yun having the advantage.
What?
And yeah probably some guilty gear or another, too many titles for me to keep up on.

Melee, I win.

You lose more than you can possibly imagine considering melee has the same 3 way stalemate as third strike does.

 

[Omni]

I'm saying Brawl is like rock,paper, scissors because of that fact how majority of characters have neutrals, advantages, disadvantages. If you go to a tournament as Yoshi, it's almost like your picking rock when everyone else is picking paper. You are more than likely going to not win the tournament except for those few people that pick scissors. You choose someone else that will be a paper to everyone elses paper, you can win the stalemates.

If you choose scissors to the paper fest in the tourney, and all of those rocks are eliminated by the paper, you have a great chance at winning the tourney.

I agree, but maybe you misunderstood.

Brawl CAN be played like rock, paper scissors. It does not HAVE to be played like rock, paper, scissors.

When you see the end of the Melee metagame, counterpicking no longer exist. The person who becomes the best with their character, despite disadvantages, wins. The ratios that people who create based on theories are pissed on. At an intermediate level players will say, "Fox beats Sheik. Sheik beats Marth. Marth beats Falco." but at an advance levels of play all that speculation is ignored.

So just because Brawl can be played with a counterpicking system does not imply that it HAS to be played with a counterpicking system. Capice?

 

[iRJi]

Right, because MK is the best character with the best match ups. Best =/= broken.

This is just going to end up going in circles. My response to this will just end up being the same as my response to everything before. He has even match ups, player skill is the deciding factor, that's not broken, etc, etc. That's the most important thing for me.

I never said MK was broken lol, I am only stating that when it comes to inbalencing the game, he is doing it just right. The game is based not just off of personal skill, but also C/Ping. I am aware he has even matchups, but he has zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, and I repeat zero bad matchups. Even can take the cake for a good fight, but he will always have an opportunity to C/P giving him a slight advantage while at best all you can do is square even. I am sorry to bring up other character, but any other character in the game has at least 1 bad matchup. Metaknight has zero. i am making zero clear because it means nothing at all will get him into a bad situation, while others can be put into one. It is a C/P game, and he falls out of the loop of being C/P'ed. That my friend, is my side of it.

 

[Divinokage]

Chun being the example, right? Despite the game being dominated in a three way tie by chun ken and yun.
What?
And yeah probably some guilty gear or another, too many titles for me to keep up on.



You lose more than you can possibly imagine considering melee has the same 3 way stalemate as third strike does.

I disagree, the tournament results show that the Top Tiers are definitely not dominant in the scene. When's the last time Fox won a tournament? GG.

 

[Clai]

No, it isn't.

People have a problem with the fact that Metaknight is not countered by "Character X" because that's what they've been breastfed since Melee.

Rewind time and you'll find Pikachu having zero counters. Look outside the box and you'll find other best characters in other games having no counters.

So now that Smash has a game with a new best character, everyone's panties get caught in a bunch. "How unfair for a character to exist where I can't have the advantage by choosing another character."

Pro-ban has a few legitimate arguments, but the mentality of most pro-ban players is that of a scrub.

This. THIS is what I've been saying.

Thank you, InfernoOmni.

Rykoshet, when you combine characters and stages, Metaknight is likely to have a soft advantage, at some point, to just about everyone. You know what? Metaknight is also the best character in the game. You're going to have to battle uphill for a bit to beat Metaknight. Deal with it.

 

[Master Raven]

Spade, you're thinking of Eddie for Guilty Gear.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In an actual match, unfortunately there are too many variables to be called only rock, paper, scissors. Everything is situational.

It's only an analogy people xD It's more complicated than that yes, but the basics are fairly similiar. My character beats yours, I have the advantage, more likely to win. My character fails against you, less likely to win.

 

[Strong Badam]

the most recent Guilty Gear title is and has been for a while Guilty Gear: Accent Core. nubs.

 

[thrillagorilla]

I never said MK was broken lol, I am only stating that when it comes to inbalencing the game, he is doing it just right. The game is based not just off of personal skill, but also C/Ping. I am aware he has even matchups, but he has zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, and I repeat zero bad matchups. Even can zero, take the cake for a good fight, but he will always have an opportunity to C/P giving him a slight advantage while at best all you can do is square even. I am sorry to bring up other character, but any other character in the game has at least 1 bad matchup. Metaknight has zero. i am making zero clear because it means nothing at all will get him into a bad situation, while others can be put into one. It is a C/P game, and he falls out of the loop of being C/P'ed. That my friend, is my side of it.

But what makes that aspect of the character BAN WORTHY? This is to all of the pro-ban people in the thread at the moment. I really would like to know.

 

[Red Arremer]

Spade, you're thinking of Eddie for Guilty Gear.

Yes, exactly. I just forgot which version is the most actual since I wasn't able to play Guilty Gear in almost a year now.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I agree, but maybe you misunderstood.

Brawl CAN be played like rock, paper scissors. It does not HAVE to be played like rock, paper, scissors.

When you see the end of the Melee metagame, counterpicking no longer exist. The person who becomes the best with their character, despite disadvantages, wins. The ratios that people who create based on theories are pissed on. At an intermediate level players will say, "Fox beats Sheik. Sheik beats Marth. Marth beats Falco." but at an advance levels of play all that speculation is ignored.

So just because Brawl can be played with a counterpicking system does not imply that it HAS to be played with a counterpicking system. Capice?

It was a big misunderstanding xD I understand that Skill is better than anything. But taking that factor out was the reason I agree with the rock/paper/scissors analogy.

 

[Rykoshet]

Rykoshet, when you combine characters and stages, Metaknight is likely to have a soft advantage, at some point, to just about everyone.

Again, I'm not bringing up "some point". I'm bringing up a specific SOLITARY point that is designated to give the person who ISNT meta knight the advantage.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

OH YES

OH GOSH YES

SCREENSHOTTING THIS

AND POSTING IT ALL OVER SRK LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Dude, every post I have made in this thread has been a blatant troll

 

[Red Arremer]

Again, I'm not bringing up "some point". I'm bringing up a specific SOLITARY point that is designated to give the person who ISNT meta knight the advantage.

But the person who isn't Meta Knight doesn't NEED the advantage. Even is all you need.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I never said MK was broken lol, I am only stating that when it comes to inbalencing the game, he is doing it just right. The game is based not just off of personal skill, but also C/Ping. I am aware he has even matchups, but he has zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, and I repeat zero bad matchups. Even can take the cake for a good fight, but he will always have an opportunity to C/P giving him a slight advantage while at best all you can do is square even. I am sorry to bring up other character, but any other character in the game has at least 1 bad matchup. Metaknight has zero. i am making zero clear because it means nothing at all will get him into a bad situation, while others can be put into one. It is a C/P game, and he falls out of the loop of being C/P'ed. That my friend, is my side of it.

I fully understand your side of it, I just don't think that warrants a ban. If he had all 70:30+ match ups, maybe it would be a little different. But he doesn't.

I don't like that he has no bad match ups either. Hell, I don't like MK at all. I just don't think it's enough to warrant a ban.

 

[iRJi]

But what makes that aspect of the character BAN WORTHY? This is to all of the pro-ban people in the thread at the moment. I really would like to know.

My statement that you commented on is my personal reason for why he should be. As for others, you might want to take it up with them.

 

[Strong Badam]

mk having no bad matchups doesn't make him broken/bannable (Sheik in Meree, Pikachu in 64, neither were banned. **** the tournament domination, go get a real ****ing argument). if he had 8-2's 7-3's against the entire cast then yeah that'd mkae sense, but he doesn't. kthx.

 

[Clai]

But what makes that aspect of the character BAN WORTHY? This is to all of the pro-ban people in the thread at the moment. I really would like to know.

You know, if we put ThrillaGorilla's and my rebuttals to the first post somewhere near the first page, the rhetoric in each side would cancel out and people wouldn't vote for the pro-ban side simply because they stated their case better.

Wish we can get that to happen. I'd also like to see the pro-ban answer this question.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

mk having no bad matchups doesn't make him broken/bannable. if he had 8-2's 7-3's against the entire cast then yeah that'd mkae sense, but he doesn't. kthx.

Says you, right?

I'm pretty sure every anti-ban agrees with you. Saying it over and over again doesn't make it correct. This whole thread is arguing over where the line is. We know where the anti-ban camp thinks the line is. Tell us why you think that's where it is and stop saying that ad nauseum.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

But what makes that aspect of the character BAN WORTHY? This is to all of the pro-ban people in the thread at the moment. I really would like to know.

He...you should've seen the reasons already...

 

[CT Chia]

mk having no bad matchups doesn't make him broken/bannable. if he had 8-2's 7-3's against the entire cast then yeah that'd mkae sense, but he doesn't. kthx.

It does make him bannable when EVERY OTHER CHARACTER does have at least one bad matchup. Why should MK have the luxury of never having to CP anyone with a differ character, face any uphill battles, have no bad stages, etc when every other character has to. It makes no sense for anyone to not play MK. And he does have some 8-2s and 7-3s.

 

[SimaMatt]

lol@people who really think sagat is softbanned in sf4.

 

[iRJi]

I fully understand your side of it, I just don't think that warrants a ban. If he had all 70:30+ match ups, maybe it would be a little different. But he doesn't.

I don't like that he has no bad match ups either. Hell, I don't like MK at all. I just don't think it's enough to warrant a ban.

I understand, and to me it wouldn't warren a ban if the game wasn't so C/P based, but it is. That sole reason is enough for me to issue his ban.