Forget it. Close this.

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

No one cares for a community anymore. Maybe if MK gets banned, some MK's will come here and spread more individuality around.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well, I have professional friends who still think G&W is no lower than 4th place.

Besides, G&W's juggling is TOO ****ING good.

Like seriously, his U-air is a candidate for THE MOST BROKEN MOVE IN THE GAME. You can't punish it with anything, and it unstales his other attacks.

N-air is amazing and hard to escape from.

F-air is safe on fullhop

D-air is the best ****ing edgeguard ever when slowfalled.

Up-B is 99.9% completely unpunishable.

Tilts are all good. D-tilt is extremely gay. F-tilt is a good damage racker and can be comboed into. The only reason U-tilt is rarely used is because G&W likes juggling more with aerials, but it can be used for killing, and it's hard to spotdodge.

All Smashes are safe on block and have instant charge release.

Being lightweight means you don't get CGed or comboed as much.

Like seriously, you're crazy if you don't think G&W is ****ing amazing.

As for Marth, Marth sucks compared to G&W. G&W is clearly a better character than him (even if Marth IS one of G&W's harder matchups, but G&W is in general a lot better).

 

[cutter]

Game and Watch's meta game really hasn't changed at all for awhile now, not since NoJ made it however long back. He's beginning to fail against Meta Knight... I'm trying to figure out why he's even so high on the tier list.

His fair is punishable. It was a lot of cool down, doesn't link into anything, unless you're playing a heavy character, and you unsweetspot it into a sweetspot. Saving it for a killing move is hardly useful, because using it above far above the ground can make it dodgeable and too close to the ground = punished.

I do agree; SHing Fair is just screaming to get hit. That's why it's great as an aerial move. The inital frames of the attack provide another nice KO move, and it also turns into a sex kick on steriods. It's also a big disjointed hitbox.

As for Meta; he has advantages over the entire cast. He has no bad matchups and no neutrals except for the Meta mirror match. I personally don't think Meta ***** G&W to hell and back, but Meta definately has an advantage over G&W, just like he does with the rest of the cast.

His n-air is only good for juggling and good players can DI away.

His Nair is probably one of the best Nairs in the game. Massive disjointed hitbox, tons of damage, and it has pretty much no significant startup or cooldown time.

His b-air is good, that can't be argued.

It's one of the best moves in the game, period. It's that good.

is d-air is a poor spiking move. If used from above its shield-grabable.

I do agree; you can punish Dair spamming. We all did it at some time or another early in G&W's lifespan. Dair is another big disjointed hitbox. So what if it sucks at spiking? G&W has extremely powerful kill moves at his disposal; it's not like he has to rely on spiking a lot. Dair also has an AoE hitbox upon landing to make the move really hard to punish.

His u-air is good at juggling, but doesn't even damage, so beyond stalling how good is it really?

Come on; are you serious? Uair is free refreshing of G&W's stale moves. That's huge.

His tilts are poor. His up-tilts can juggle at low damages, but thats about it. Nothing can lead into anything like most other characters' tilts, and they by no means KO. the only real tilt useable is d-tilt, and thats hardly situationable.

You got me on the Ftilt and Utilt. I don't use those moves much and it's not like G&W wouldn't survive if he couldn't use them. But his Dtilt is an excellent spacing/poking move. It's great to stop extremely aggressive players. It hits on frame 6 and has no cooldown lag to speak of. Oh yeah, did I forget to mention it's another huge disjointed hitbox?

He's light, can die low unless you're godly at DIing.

...ok

His moves really can't combo, so as long as you dodge you seem to be ok. My g&w has only done worse around here lately.

Combos? This is Brawl; not Melee. There is so little hitstun in this game, making comboing pretty nigh impossible to do for any character.

I haven't heard of any near g&w mains, and being the second best g&w around here now that Lain dropped him, I feel like the g&w hype has died.

Hylian, omegablackmage, xyz, and co have still been doing great with G&W still. G&W is still a character to beat (after Meta obviously) in tournament play; he's that good.

Seeing g&w as high as he was on Panda's list sort of bugged me. I really don't think he's that good. I'd easily place D3 and Marth above him.

Anyone else feel this way?

Maybe you just have a bad case of the Metas. idk.

 

[Steeler]

i think gw is really solid all-around, but isn't very deep. i think he'll be #1 if mk is ever banned, even though there isn't really much to him...just play safe, aggressive pressure with those disjointed hitboxes.

 

[Gishnak]

His metagame won't change much for a while, or ever... He's a very linear character. He's still really good, but people are finally learning how to play against him, so yeah.

 

[chckn]

This post is really silly. GW is good. Play smart and ledge camp when you need to. If you're good then you'll win.

 

[Ruuku]

Listen to the wise chckn... Buck-buck-buck-buck-bucket!

 

[GimR]

Here's G&W's problem, heres too Freakin' predictable. If you play someone at a high enough level with good G&W experience, he will beat you most of the time guaranteed.

 

[Hylian]

Well, I have professional friends who still think G&W is no lower than 4th place.

Besides, G&W's juggling is TOO ****ING good.

Like seriously, his U-air is a candidate for THE MOST BROKEN MOVE IN THE GAME. You can't punish it with anything, and it unstales his other attacks.

N-air is amazing and hard to escape from.

F-air is safe on fullhop

D-air is the best ****ing edgeguard ever when slowfalled.

Up-B is 99.9% completely unpunishable.

Tilts are all good. D-tilt is extremely gay. F-tilt is a good damage racker and can be comboed into. The only reason U-tilt is rarely used is because G&W likes juggling more with aerials, but it can be used for killing, and it's hard to spotdodge.

All Smashes are safe on block and have instant charge release.

Being lightweight means you don't get CGed or comboed as much.

Like seriously, you're crazy if you don't think G&W is ****ing amazing.

As for Marth, Marth sucks compared to G&W. G&W is clearly a better character than him (even if Marth IS one of G&W's harder matchups, but G&W is in general a lot better).

>_>.

I think Marth is a better character then GW. Just harder to play at high levels.

Most would disagree with me...so I don't preach it as it's a rather extremely thought out opinion that I wouldn't try to convince someone else of.

 

[Kagesekan]

His fair is punishable. It was a lot of cool down, doesn't link into anything, unless you're playing a heavy character, and you unsweetspot it into a sweetspot. Saving it for a killing move is hardly useful, because using it above far above the ground can make it dodgeable and too close to the ground = punished.

His n-air is only good for juggling and good players can DI away.

His b-air is good, that can't be argued.

His d-air is a poor spiking move. If used from above its shield-grabable.

His u-air is good at juggling, but doesn't even damage, so beyond stalling how good is it really?

His tilts are poor. His up-tilts can juggle at low damages, but thats about it. Nothing can lead into anything like most other characters' tilts, and they by no means KO. the only real tilt useable is d-tilt, and thats hardly situationable.

He's light, can die low unless you're godly at DIing.

His moves really can't combo, so as long as you dodge you seem to be ok. My g&w has only done worse around here lately.

I haven't heard of any near g&w mains, and being the second best g&w around here now that Lain dropped him, I feel like the g&w hype has died.

Seeing g&w as high as he was on Panda's list sort of bugged me. I really don't think he's that good. I'd easily place D3 and Marth above him.

Anyone else feel this way?

fair- use mindgames
nair-still does damage
bair-hard to deal with and a good move overall
dair- you shouldn't be trying to spike with this. it's more useful for a lot of things, and if aimed right you push your opponent away when they shield
uair- the second hit kills reasonable well if it manages to connect. and the juggle is a massive mindgame/annoyance
dtilt- works good on ledges, especially on floaty characters
other tilts- yeah they suck
he's light- so is MK
can't combo- most characters can't. play defensively and outcamp the opponent with your bair and key

 

[Kagesekan]

Here's G&W's problem, heres too Freakin' predictable. If you play someone at a high enough level with good G&W experience, he will beat you most of the time guaranteed.

switch it up then. all about them mindgames son

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I can beat most random people using literally no other moves but the turtle and down throw to down smash/up smash, and it tends to be a 3 stock. This sort of thing probably contributes to Mr. Game & Watch being "predictable"; only against good players is there any reason at all to be even the tiniest bit unpredictable since it's a really simple algorithm to beat a bad player with Mr. Game & Watch. It's not like the people who figure out the raw basics tend to do well against him anyway; it seems to take people a lot longer to figure out how to fight Mr. Game & Watch than it does to learn to fight most characters. It means the Mr. Game & Watch players don't get much experience exploring the full depth of his options, and then later people realize how to beat the stupid stuff that should have stopped working long ago, think it's all Mr. Game & Watch has, notice that it's all a lot of Mr. Game & Watch players really use (because it's all they have to use...), and assume it's all there is.

 

[Alopex]

G&W is the second most powerful character, if you ask me.

And his match-ups seem to agree, with TL being the only match that's disadvantageous to G&W.

If they ban MK you will see a huge increase in G&W players. And once MK is no longer around to take all the heat, people will start complaining about G&W. Guaranteed. Snake already got plenty of heat before MK rose up. You could say that MK saved Snake.

Trust me, you don't want G&W's metagame to get much stronger than it already is, or he will become the next ban scapegoat (once one character is banned, it sets a precedent).

The current G&W should be winning plenty of tournaments as it is.

 

[Hylian]

G&W is the second most powerful character, if you ask me.

And his match-ups seem to agree, with TL being the only match that's disadvantageous to G&W.

If they ban MK you will see a huge increase in G&W players. And once MK is no longer around to take all the heat, people will start complaining about G&W. Guaranteed. Snake already got plenty of heat before MK rose up. You could say that MK saved Snake.

Trust me, you don't want G&W's metagame to get much stronger than it already is, or he will become the next ban scapegoat (once one character is banned, it sets a precedent).

The current G&W should be winning plenty of tournaments as it is.

You...don't know what you are talking about .

TL isn't really a bad match-up for GW.

Snake and Marth both have significant advantages vs GW.
Several characters go even with GW as well as 45-55.

There aren't even a lot of GW players dominating tournaments.

So yeah...

 

[Xiivi]

I don't think G&W has been proving to be anywhere near 2nd best at all. I doubt he'd be replacing MK if MK was banned. There have been so few notable placings for G&W in the past two months.

OBM won Mass Madness 12 with G&W and LeePuff won a biweekly. Those are the only wins I've seen for g&w in quite a bit. Even at smaller local tournaments you don't see him winning, heck there's very few top 8s other than from players you'd expect (Hylian, LeePuff, etc..). So yeah, I don't think G&W is near as devasting as some of you may think. No one will ever be calling for him to be banned with his current metagame, MK banned or not.

Listen to Hylian you guys, he knows what he's talking about. TL, lol.

 

[Nic64]

Game and Watch's meta game really hasn't changed at all for awhile now, not since NoJ made it however long back. He's beginning to fail against Meta Knight... I'm trying to figure out why he's even so high on the tier list.

*outlining the shortcomings of many of GAW's moves*

everyone is beginning to fail against meta knight -_- GAW is high on the tier list because he has some really good attributes, he isn't as flexible as MK in that he might not have 3-4 options in any given situation, but the options he does have are good ones, hence why GAW tends to be "predictable" and his meta game doesn't change....for much of the cast it doesn't really matter, unless you're facing a really really good player, the archetype works. against better players you need to change up your attack patterns but you'll still be relying on the same things a lot. although GAW's tools are better than you give him credit for, I think his utilt and side B are the only moves he has that I wouldn't use much at all, and even then there are situations...and being lightweight is a good thing, it means lamedede can't CG **** you

edit: although I will agree that GAW might be ranked a few characters too high, I think from him to a few of the top high tier characters are pretty close, I suppose the SBR list is deceiving in that it implies he is close to MK/Snake/DDD, he's not, those three really ought to be in their own category

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Maybe you just have a bad case of the Metas. idk.

could be.

His metagame won't change much for a while, or ever... He's a very linear character. He's still really good, but people are finally learning how to play against him, so yeah.

I don't think G&W has been proving to be anywhere near 2nd best at all. I doubt he'd be replacing MK if MK was banned. There have been so few notable placings for G&W in the past two months.

OBM won Mass Madness 12 with G&W and LeePuff won a biweekly. Those are the only wins I've seen for g&w in quite a bit. Even at smaller local tournaments you don't see him winning, heck there's very few top 8s other than from players you'd expect (Hylian, LeePuff, etc..). So yeah, I don't think G&W is near as devasting as some of you may think. No one will ever be calling for him to be banned with his current metagame, MK banned or not.

thats what i mean. I haven't seen g&w do much of anything lately. Whether this is in direct realtion to MK or not idk, but its true. Noone's been placing.

And no, I don't think he'd be an easy second, or second at all after a MK ban.

Here's G&W's problem, heres too Freakin' predictable

agreed. thats my problem.

>_>.

I think Marth is a better character then GW. Just harder to play at high levels.
Most would disagree with me...so I don't preach it as it's a rather extremely thought out opinion that I wouldn't try to convince someone else of.

Marth is way better, agreed. Marth also owns g&w, as far as match ups go.

G&W is the second most powerful character, if you ask me.
And his match-ups seem to agree, with TL being the only match that's disadvantageous to G&W.

If they ban MK you will see a huge increase in G&W players. And once MK is no longer around to take all the heat, people will start complaining about G&W. Guaranteed. Snake already got plenty of heat before MK rose up. You could say that MK saved Snake.

Trust me, you don't want G&W's metagame to get much stronger than it already is, or he will become the next ban scapegoat (once one character is banned, it sets a precedent).

The current G&W should be winning plenty of tournaments as it is.

wrong. Sorry, I know its your opinion and all, but no way. Snake. Thats all I have to say.

You...don't know what you are talking about .

TL isn't really a bad match-up for GW.

Snake and Marth both have significant advantages vs GW.
Several characters go even with GW as well as 45-55.

There aren't even a lot of GW players dominating tournaments.

So yeah...

yup.

Listen to Hylian you guys, he knows what he's talking about. TL, lol.

lol agreed. Kudos to Hylian.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Guys, G&W is better than Marth.

He has better KO moves, better recovery, better edgeguarding, BETTER JUGGLING, and he does better vs ROB, DDD, Falco, and almost all mid-low tiers. He arguably does better vs MK too, since the Marth boards say Marth loses 65/35.

Hell, Emblem Lord has said G&W is clearly better than Marth.

 

[PhantomX]

Except for the fact that one tiny mistake in spacing as Watch gets you killed by a fsmash tipper at 60 :\

Also, people overrate the turtle just a tad... it can be Smash DId.

 

[JPOBS]

G&W has a shallow metagame because he doesnt have any advanced techniques.

G&W wins because he has good priority and deals a lot of damage. He doesnt need fancy m3t4G4meZ TrLckz to be good....

 

[Pikaville]

I literally just started playing "competitive" style brawl this week.Melee is still around in Ireland but no one really wants to play brawl. since no one in Ireland plays brawl competitivly that means I had to resort to playing my ****** friends in items for the past few months.

I just got online and I can get my one on ones no items on.

Anyways the point is I at first mained Pika but now have switched to G&W.He is a beast.D throw is pretty **** good for tech chases.Even if you opponent tries the get up attack,Ive found its insanely easy to SH d/b/n air.

I find his edgeguarding pretty good.His insane recovery lets him do like 4 aerials or something off stage and still make it back.Fox trot is good too.Unstale smashes are very powerfull.Bucket makes good projectile characters think twice.

I dont see myself switching main anytime soon.

BTW any good game and watches want to wifi anytime soon.Its the only way im gonna get to play good people at all PLEASE!

My FC is here
<<<<<<<<

 

[Hylian]

Guys, G&W is better than Marth.

He has better KO moves, better recovery, better edgeguarding, BETTER JUGGLING, and he does better vs ROB, DDD, Falco, and almost all mid-low tiers. He arguably does better vs MK too, since the Marth boards say Marth loses 65/35.

Hell, Emblem Lord has said G&W is clearly better than Marth.

On paper GW seems much better.

Which is why I said I wouldn't try and convince people otherwise. It's acceptable to think GW is better then Marth.

I personally think Marth should be one tier placing above GW. Like I said, I don't expect others to agree with me but I have my reasons .

 

[Alopex]

You...don't know what you are talking about .

TL isn't really a bad match-up for GW.

Snake and Marth both have significant advantages vs GW.
Several characters go even with GW as well as 45-55.

There aren't even a lot of GW players dominating tournaments.

So yeah...

It's only a matter of time.

Snake has more disadvantageous match-ups than G&W. I'm basing this on the threads on their own respective boards, where I would assume they are more accurate.
The TL disadvantage, for example, I got from the thread here in the G&W board.

Both the Snake and G&W boards have them as even, and the Marth boards only give themselves a slight advantage, while the G&W boards say it's even. From that, I would gather that they don't have "significant" advantages like you said, but if you're taking your info from an SBR discussion then obviously I'll just have to take your word for it.

Still, G&W DOES have less disadvantageous match-ups than Snake. And people always flock to the most reliable character, which is why MK is so popular.

If MK is banned, the next most reliable is G&W. Reliability being the chance of not getting a bad match-up on a double-blind.

So I believe that if MK is banned we'll see more G&W's than Snakes. Sheer numbers will then net G&W plenty of tourneys. My cynical side believes that the Brawl community will complain about anyone who does well in tourneys.
Though I don't understand why G&W isn't currently making his dent in the tourney scene.

 

[cutter]

^^^^^^^

That's because Meta Knight is the one laying waste at tournaments.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On paper GW seems much better.

Which is why I said I wouldn't try and convince people otherwise. It's acceptable to think GW is better then Marth.

I personally think Marth should be one tier placing above GW. Like I said, I don't expect others to agree with me but I have my reasons .

Eh, it's all about matchup discrepancies in my opinion. With some characters, you can take them either way.

I personally think that G&W's good matchups justify him being over Marth. Marth has very few remarkably good matchups. G&W has many good matchups, and against characters like ROB, DDD, and Falco, even now he's clearly a serious competitive threat. Granted G&W players might need to have a secondary for some matchups, but he's overall very solid.

Also, I'll point out DDD. He's a character that clearly has some lousy matchups in various parts of the tier list, but he's still amazing because of the matchups he shines in.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Just going to point this out, but the reason that G&W's metagame hasn't advanced is because there's nothing to advance it. G&W doesn't have any real AT's, so the only reason that he's so good is that his moves are **** overpowered. Mehnyways, the thing about G&W's metagame is that it's all about basics. That's it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The last advancements made to G&W's metagame was me announcing to everyone how slowfalled D-air was teh most epic edgeguard ever. =(

 

[Gishnak]

I think Marth is a better character than G&W. One spot ahead. At top level play Marth > G&W. It's just that there are so few really good marths...

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Seeing g&w as high as he was on Panda's list sort of bugged me. I really don't think he's that good. I'd easily place D3 and Marth above him.

I agree that G&W's metagame is advancing more slowly than other characters, and I think that, given time, its even possible G&W could drop from the top tier. But my list was my own reflection of the current metagame. Not tomorrow's, not a month from now's, but today's.

 

[_Phloat_]

I agree that G&W's metagame is advancing more slowly than other characters, and I think that, given time, its even possible G&W could drop from the top tier. But my list was my own reflection of the current metagame. Not tomorrow's, not a month from now's, but today's.

Very true..

Why the green name now ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why exactly do you guys think GnW has better match-up's vs Top tiers than Marth? Why do you say GnW has the advantage over Dedede?

Marth wins vs Falco, GnW and loses to MK (slightly to DDD and Snake)
GnW wins vs Falco, ROB and loses to Snake, Marth and MK (neutral vs Dedede)

Marth is also better vs Wario another highly overused character.

I agree with Hylian, that Marth > GnW

But GnW is clearly Top tier

 

[A2ZOMG]

Why exactly do you guys think GnW has better match-up's vs Top tiers than Marth? Why do you say GnW has the advantage over Dedede?

DDD is a big target. Fairly easy to shield poke.

Next, his recovery PLAIN SUCKS against G&W. His recovery is so easily punished by G&W, it's ridiculous. When he Up-Bs, it's a free aerial for G&W which sets up for more U-air juggling etc etc until DDD gets KOed by a F-air.

Waddle Doo = Free Bucket.

Lastly, G&W can't be CGed.

Marth wins vs Falco, GnW and loses to MK (slightly to DDD and Snake)
GnW wins vs Falco, ROB and loses to Snake, Marth and MK (neutral vs Dedede)

I'm pretty sure Falco goes even with Marth. At least.

Marth is also better vs Wario another highly overused character.

I've heard that Marth vs Wario is even, but I dunno.

Anyhow, G&W also does better in most matchups outside of the top tier.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

I've heard that Marth vs Wario is even, but I dunno.

Anyhow, G&W also does better in most matchups outside of the top tier.

I completely agree with this.
As For topic, i think people all around are just learning how to play against G&W making it harder for us. I try playing differently but i feel that i am running out of options

 

[salaboB]

He has better KO moves, better recovery, better edgeguarding, BETTER JUGGLING, and he does better vs ROB, DDD, Falco, and almost all mid-low tiers. He arguably does better vs MK too, since the Marth boards say Marth loses 65/35.

Good MKs can shuttle loop through the turtle by timing it right, that shuts down the best method of dealing with him that G&W had.

I suspect his matchup is nowhere near as good as the charts currently show.

 

[A2ZOMG]

MK doesn't really have clear answers to G&W camping back though.

Oh yeah, and I'll point out, G&W has super broken ledgecamping, and he's MUCH better in teams than Marth.

 

[Gishnak]

DeDeDe vs GW is NOT even, GW has it at least 60 40.

And Marth Wario is DEFINITIELY not even, many say 65-35. Grab release to free... upsmash, forward smash tipper, etc.

 

[Emblem Lord]

G&W gets ganked by Snake.

I really think that match is like 7/3 Snake.

Or at least 65/35.

Anyway G&W ***** more characters then Marth does.

Doesn't matter.

They both suck and don't win tournies consistently.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

They both suck and don't win tournies consistently.

lol

now I know why the Marth boards are considered cynical <_<

 

[K 2]

I would post my thoughts, but everyone already said what I wanted to say. =( darn you guys.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lolz. I keep it real.

I don't care if I main the character or not.

No one is safe from blunt cynicism.