Forget it. Close this.

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Kyari you really don't understand why GW does badly against snake...

On paper, GW looks amazing against EVERY character, but one of his main problems is how telegraphed his kill methods are. There is simply NO way to reliably kill a good Snake. ZERO options to hit a grenade camping snake without getting punished with a kill move. GW shouldn't even attack snakes shield, he should try to get in bairs and nairs on block from ftilts or utilts. He should grab camp and upthrow snake to get him in the air as much as possible because quite frankly GW doesn't stand a chance on the ground. GW has zero approach options, as well as no method to kill. The only really way to kill is to get snake above you and punish an airdodge(Which is also pretty impossible if the snake is good at b-reversals).

I shouldn't even have to bring up all the statistical advantages snake has on GW...it isn't pretty.
Marth is going to be kill snake much earlier then GW on average(Unless the snake is bad, in which case GW will easily kill first lol). Marth can also edgeguard snake pretty well with dair. I've seen Roy_R spike a snake out of a C4 explosion. Pretty far off the stage as well. Marth also has the option of aireals that somewhat kill and are useable out of SH's (2nd hit of nair...) GW can kill with a tipper fair, but it's really hard to hit anyone with that move :/.

Anyways, from watching Roy_R play snakes(I saw him going even with DSF's...) and from my experiences with them(DSF,Cort,AfroThunder,Hrnut+texas snakes) I don't see how anyone could think GW does better against snake then Marth does.

Also, DDD vs GW is pretty even. Again, GW has a hard time hitting DDD with a smash. It's even because GW can rack up damage really fast. I'm tired, so I'm not going to go much more into the match-up :/.

yeah hylian! Hylian ftw.

You either main G&W, or you don't play him at all.
Players who second him will hereby be looked down upon.

exactly. Thats another thing I hate about him

 

[JLynn943]

I know it's been said, but GaW lacks depth (lol). It's all about finding different strategies and playing styles for his metagame to develop more

 

[cutter]

You either main G&W, or you don't play him at all.
Players who second him will hereby be looked down upon.

There's no point in seconding or CPing G&W because it's always better to choose Meta Knight instead.

Then again, what's the point in playing any character other than Meta Knight to begin with?

 

[Neb]

There's no point in seconding or CPing G&W because it's always better to choose Meta Knight instead.

Then again, what's the point in playing any character other than Meta Knight to begin with?

omg, I can't wait till this kirby in a friggen suit is banned.
I can't believe this, this quote, is actually fact, xD.

 

[_Phloat_]

Then again, what's the point in playing any character other than Meta Knight to begin with?

Apparently, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZ3_obMXwU

 

[Neb]

Apparently, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZ3_obMXwU

QFT.
Haha, good laugh.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hylian, you're trying to tell me that someone is wrong just because I suck?

What? Are you jealous that I'm not YOUR fanboy or something?

Because that can be easily arranged. I LOVE talking to good players. But you haven't given me a **** reply to my inbox or AIM...

Y'know during those times, I really did want to actually discuss with you why you think matchups are this way and not that way. Not to mention I truly was sorry for being a pain in the *** towards you about the MK matchup.

Not to mention like a long time ago you were looking for a Mario main to challenge you. I'd say I'd be interesting to play against at the least considering I'm fairly notable down there for helping to advance Mario's metagame.

Oh yeah and Emblem Lord, I'm afraid it's really hard to break bad habits. But I appreciate you looking out for me. ^^

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, you're trying to tell me that someone is wrong just because I suck?

What? Are you jealous that I'm not YOUR fanboy or something?

Because that can be easily arranged. I LOVE talking to good players. But you haven't given me a **** reply to my inbox or AIM...

Y'know during those times, I really did want to actually discuss with you why you think matchups are this way and not that way. Not to mention I truly was sorry for being a pain in the *** towards you about the MK matchup.

Not to mention like a long time ago you were looking for a Mario main to challenge you. I'd say I'd be interesting to play against at the least considering I'm fairly notable down there for helping to advance Mario's metagame.

Oh yeah and Emblem Lord, I'm afraid it's really hard to break bad habits. But I appreciate you looking out for me. ^^

First off, I'm telling you to not preach someones name in every post like it validates your point. It just says: "I'm not too sure, but this person said this so it must be true". It's cool to discuss things but lots of different people have different opinions and just latching on to someones because they are better then you is a bit shallow.

When you want to argue a point, you generally use your own knowledge and experience, because otherwise you arn't really the one arguing. You are just putting faith in someone elses words. You will learn a lot more by taking someones viewpoint and then observing how your tournament scene compares to it. Test things out, learn from playing the game. Anything someone tells you online isn't really going to do you any good unless you test it out first or observe others doing it in live play.

Another reason why it's silly for you to bring up teh_spamerer is because he doesn't play GW, and to my knowledge doesn't really play against any good ones either. I don't think he is too close to OBM, but I might be wrong. Now, you bring up a good MK players name in a discussion of DDD vs GW and expect it to mean anything? NOJ and I both think DDD vs GW is even. We both main GW and place very well with him. We both have a lot of experience against many good players. You can see why it's a bit silly for you to bring up his name so often on the GW boards.

Another thing: I never said you suck. I have no idea how good you are. I never impiled anything like that either.

Also, I get tons of PM's every day. I don't respond to almost any of them. It just takes too much time :/.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay, my experience?

I dunno, I'll point out teh_spammerer beats me like 95% of the time and 3stocks me 50% of the time when I play him. I've beaten his DDD with G&W before, but screw wifi lag.

I should point out that he's very proficient with what seems like every character in the game. Yeah, I really think I've seen him use every character in the game against me (except I know he hasn't used Falco on me who sucks massively on wifi), and uh yeah, that means he's owned me with every character at least once. I think. It hardly matters who I use against him, cause I suck lol.

 

[cutter]

He is a straight forward brute force type of character

G&W isn't exactly a "brute force" character like DK or Snake; he's more of a glass cannon. He can deal crazy amounts of damage, but he can't take much of it back in return.

G&W reminds me a lot of Alakazam from when I used to play Pokemon as a kid. Alakazam had ridiculous offensive power backed by his crazy speed. He could lay waste to pretty much anything extremely quickly. His defense and HP were abysmal though, and he couldn't stomach a hit to save his life.

And like G&W, Alakazam was pretty predictable in knowing what moves he'd use. You know he'd be using Psychic, Fire/Ice/Thunderpunch, and Calm Mind in some order, but he'd still ****.

 

[Neb]

G&W's metagame is similar to his in Melee's, it didn't go very far, even with WD, L-canceling, etc.
I think if Brawl is hacked (the only way it'll live longer), his game will rocket. But rather than debating what we already know, why not discuss how we can solve our problem?

 

[Lethe]

ill tell you why MY game is at a standstill, i cant find any omegablackmage videos to rip off. i already been to youtube a lot to try and cannibalize all of hylian's moves. i dont want to be in the 99% who dont know how to play g&w right... can't advance the metagame unless you're already at the cutting edge, am i right? B)

 

[K 2]

Instead of complaining about how G&W's game is at a standstill, why don't we do something about it? Participate in the Stage Discussions and Matchup Discussions Help bring the G&W boards back to life and attract new players. The more G&W players we have, the more things get tested out/discovered and the faster G&W's metagame progresses. Everyone plays MK and you can see how effing fast MK's metagame progresses. G&W is a rather simple to play/straight forward character, but that doesn't mean his metagame can't be awesome.

 

[Pikaville]

Well G&W has certaintly got my attention anyway.

Anyone else find Olimar a tough match?If not got any advice?

 

[Neb]

ill tell you why MY game is at a standstill, i cant find any omegablackmage videos to rip off. i already been to youtube a lot to try and cannibalize all of hylian's moves. i dont want to be in the 99% who dont know how to play g&w right... can't advance the metagame unless you're already at the cutting edge, am i right? B)

Don't rip off people, make your own style. Whats a clone of a pro player going to give us?
Right now, your are going to be looked down upon. D'you know how many G&W games there are, not one of them are the same!

Spoiler

lol

Instead of complaining about how G&W's game is at a standstill, why don't we do something about it? Participate in the Stage Discussions and Matchup Discussions Help bring the G&W boards back to life and attract new players. The more G&W players we have, the more things get tested out/discovered and the faster G&W's metagame progresses. Everyone plays MK and you can see how effing fast MK's metagame progresses. G&W is a rather simple to play/straight forward character, but that doesn't mean his metagame can't be awesome.

This a thousand times.
G&W forums often attract lazy people.
But, that's not an excuse.

Well G&W has certaintly got my attention anyway.

Anyone else find Olimar a tough match?If not got any advice?

Check our Match-Up thread, and also the Olimar match-up thread, we both have gone over it thoroughly.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well G&W has certaintly got my attention anyway.

Anyone else find Olimar a tough match?If not got any advice?

Olimar is a fairly simple matchup.

Camp back with D-tilt and punish his grab with B-air. Then juggle him and wait for an opportunity to either kill or gimp him.

If you get a grab, D-throw is good against him. If he misses the tech, you get a free Smash (F-smash him if he tries to DI towards the stage). If he does tech, the regrab is technically inescapable if you predict right.

 

[Neb]

Camp back with D-tilt and punish his grab with B-air. Then juggle him and wait for an opportunity to either kill or gimp him.

Except that Olimar can pivot grab dtilt, and SH bair.
He can basically grab, while moving away, which extends the length he can initiate a throw.
Just remember, on all of his attacks (besides his Upb, and grab), the pikmin have a hurtbox, so you can cancel the majority of everything he throws your way.

 

[A2ZOMG]

He can't pivot grab if he's approaching you since Dashdancing doesn't really exist in Brawl. Sure pivot grab may beat B-air, but are you going to let him do that?

If he pivot grabs, simply wait and get closer and keep camping until he has no more space to pivot grab. If you hit his shield at this point, he will be knocked off stage where he's at a positional disadvantage. This means he needs to find a way to move around you or make you go away.

Any other attack he does should pretty much never work as long as you don't D-tilt like an idiot and let him grab you.

All in all, super gay, but super straightforward matchup.

 

[neon..?]

seems like he's another melee sheik.

 

[K 2]

this A Thousand Times.
G&w Forums Often Attract Lazy People.
But, That's Not An Excuse.

Argh. How do we attract dedicated players? Do we have to make some super crazy insane combo video to get their attention or something? Tell me!

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Except that Olimar can pivot grab dtilt, and SH bair.
He can basically grab, while moving away, which extends the length he can initiate a throw.
Just remember, on all of his attacks (besides his Upb, and grab), the pikmin have a hurtbox, so you can cancel the majority of everything he throws your way.

olimar is insanely easy for g&w to beat. end of story.

Argh. How do we attract dedicated players? Do we have to make some super crazy insane combo video to get their attention or something? Tell me!

We find an AT. Or a zero to death on MK. (lol thatd make my day) Otherwise you really can't attract anyone right now. You have to impress people. This is why people can't play g&w right and why his game isn't advancing. G&W doesn't look fancy. He looks simple, and powerful. Thats really about it. And sad enough, its pretty much the truth.

And on another note, you couldn't make a g&w "combo" video. Unless if was on a bunch of u-tilts into u-airs.

I mean, g&w is just too easy to beat now. My Lucario does better in tourneys, and its terrible. And I play next to Omni, Panda, Ankoku, Vayseth, etc, so thats saying something. I used to be able to beat Ankoku, Vayseth, and Omni with my g&w. But once someone really knows how to play g&w, he's too hard to change his game. Because g&w's meta game consists of back-air spam and surprising your opponent with powerful moves.

I think what the g&w community needs to do is find a whole new way to play g&w. Find a different way to make him better.

And I'm gladly up for the challenge. Any takers?

 

[Neb]

olimar is insanely easy for g&w to beat. end of story.

Did I say anything about Olimar being difficult?
I just stated an aspect of the match.

Despite G&W having the advantage, he isn't a complete walk in the park.
Click.

Argh. How do we attract dedicated players? Do we have to make some super crazy insane combo video to get their attention or something? Tell me!

G&W attracts lazy people because he's relatively an easier character to play. I'll use Marth boards as an example again, Marth is generally a more difficult character to excel in, it requires estimation, spacing, quick reaction and choice making, etc. While G&W has few important aspects, he is a "brute" as EL has said, because he doesn't require those things because he doesn't need to, G&W can just run in and do whatever. Case in point, idiots are attracted to easy-success.

Game & Watch is too straight forward, he needs complexity (A learning curve).
IMO, in order to attract smart players in a character board sporting a majority of dumb players, you need to make them.

Also, Awesome Combo Video = The Attraction of Hyped Noobs. Most of the time that is.

And I agree with JKBUK's ending statement, I'm in.

 

[_Phloat_]

I think what the g&w community needs to do is find a whole new way to play g&w. Find a different way to make him better.

And I'm gladly up for the challenge. Any takers?

I just dunno.

It seems like basing it around anything else is just not using his moves to their fullest.

Although once my friend started SLing OOS to kill my turtle, I have been playing a lot closer with more nairs, but that just isn't as good.

Sigh.

 

[K 2]

I'm in. Let's experiement with new, radical ways to play G&W? Screw bair approachs and go with uair approachs! Jk, but you get the idea.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I'm in. Let's experiement with new, radical ways to play G&W? Screw bair approachs and go with uair approachs! Jk, but you get the idea.

i want this backroomed tho ( i still want in )

last thing i need are people randomly showing up and being oh, well then lets practice around that.

cuz i'm sure i know people who would

 

[Neb]

i want this backroomed tho ( i still want in )

last thing i need are people randomly showing up and being oh, well then lets practice around that.

cuz i'm sure i know people who would

Oh, your not in the G&W BR?
You have to main Watch completely to gain access.
Everyone else is secondary.

Spoiler

JK.

Well I think it'd be a good idea to discuss things underground initially and then
expose them once we're done.

 

[Hylian]

olimar is insanely easy for g&w to beat. end of story.




We find an AT. Or a zero to death on MK. (lol thatd make my day) Otherwise you really can't attract anyone right now. You have to impress people. This is why people can't play g&w right and why his game isn't advancing. G&W doesn't look fancy. He looks simple, and powerful. Thats really about it. And sad enough, its pretty much the truth.

And on another note, you couldn't make a g&w "combo" video. Unless if was on a bunch of u-tilts into u-airs.

I mean, g&w is just too easy to beat now. My Lucario does better in tourneys, and its terrible. And I play next to Omni, Panda, Ankoku, Vayseth, etc, so thats saying something. I used to be able to beat Ankoku, Vayseth, and Omni with my g&w. But once someone really knows how to play g&w, he's too hard to change his game. Because g&w's meta game consists of back-air spam and surprising your opponent with powerful moves.

I think what the g&w community needs to do is find a whole new way to play g&w. Find a different way to make him better.

And I'm gladly up for the challenge. Any takers?

Haha I don't use back air much at all .

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Haha I don't use back air much at all .

lol exactly. And on a national scale, where's you g&w place amongst the rest?

top 5 at least?

 

[Plum]

Haha I don't use back air much at all .

Because you play people who actually know matchups

G&W is a wall of mind games against most of the smash world as soon as the match begins. As soon as I realize my opponent knows what they are doing I switch to Olimar or Ice Climbers for the remainder. I absolutely love G&W, he is so much fun to play, and a quirky interesting character that fits my style very well but he just isn't reliable against anyone who knows what they are doing against him.

I don't see how we can change his style though. There really isn't many dimensions (pun intended ) to look at when it comes to playing him. You can do things like replacing Bair with more Nairs or using Utilt for surprise kills and can only use some minor mix ups.

Unless some big discovery is made G&W won't advance too much further in terms of play style. I would love to see some big new discovery come out with him but I'm not the type of person who knows at all where to look for it.

Maybe that is why I can't be a pure G&W main. I use him more often than anyone else, that is why I put him as my main on the boards, but I need somebody with a high learning curve to really keep me interested in playing the game often, hence Olimar and Ice Climbers.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

GW has been at a stand still for a while

 

[K 2]

Oh, your not in the G&W BR?
You have to main Watch completely to gain access.
Everyone else is secondary.

Spoiler

JK.

Well I think it'd be a good idea to discuss things underground initially and then
expose them once we're done.

what? Theres a G&W BR? Am I missing something?! Tell me!

 

[Neb]

what? Theres a G&W BR? Am I missing something?! Tell me!

Oh, I was just kidding of course.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Neb is such a joker.

 

[Neb]

Heheh, what are you talking about, bud,

?

 

[K 2]

Oh, I was just kidding of course.

oh...gotcha. =|

 

[8AngeL8]

Well, if MK gets banned a lot of players will be flocking to the other high tiers, so GW will get an influx of players to discover new tactics.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Well, if MK gets banned a lot of players will be flocking to the other high tiers, so GW will get an influx of players to discover new tactics.

all the more reason to ban him

 

[8AngeL8]

I know, right? The more I think about it, the better it seems. I'm tired of MK being an ever looming shadow over everything Brawl related. It seems like half the characters are like "Yeah, he's good, but he gets totally ***** by MK, so he's mid-tier."

With MK gone, a lot of decent-to-good characters would become pretty usable.

 

[Natch]

Game and Watch is 2D, therefore he has no depth.

/topic

EDIT: Also holy **** people are arguing about MK at the GAME AND WATCH boards of all places.

 

[K 2]

lol...^^^

No wonder the G&W boards is at a standstill. We get off topic soooooo easily. How about testing out new ways to play G&W?