Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[knightpraetor]

time to relegate marth to secondary am i right?

 

[Ripple]

more like promote, miright? :D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

that checkmate reminds me of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P47OC439x88

 

[Chip.]

Nah dude.

Falling uair is the truth.

Haven't read this whole page yet, but this post out of context is really funny haha

 

[t-iceman]

Roy can do that

checkmate marth boards

You act like checkmating the marth boards is not done... every single day.

 

[Dart!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPw0ObKA_JM

can someone tell me what i was doing wrong here? i just could never get comfortable. I was also really tired :/

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Bring a pillow and blanket to the tournament. This way you can catch up on sleep and perhaps use them as a cushion during the match to help you get comfortable.

 

[Archangel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPw0ObKA_JM

can someone tell me what i was doing wrong here? i just could never get comfortable. I was also really tired :/

You Let Doc get WAY to close in game 1. Word of advice vs Doc. Don't play the pill game. If you jump over the pill they will try to hit you with a Fair most likely causing you to lose a jump. As for edge guarding Doc...to quote D! "BAAAIIIIIRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

@ vs Sheik....Switch to fox nooob!

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPw0ObKA_JM

can someone tell me what i was doing wrong here? i just could never get comfortable. I was also really tired :/

You didn't play the corner game like you usually do. Lots of impatience.

The entire tournament you seemed to forget that dtilt is broken (see: spaceballs set).

Basically, you just didn't play like yourself. I'm guessing thats tiredness/rust/johns.

I wouldn't worry about it tbh

 

[Niko45]

Empty DD is really bad against doc (or any projectile character) cause they force you to shield stop and then they have the lockdown they want. Just face him and clank away pills and then do like stationary/retreating double fairs a lot.

Watch out for WD jab cause thats generally how he gets in.

Anticipate predictable shield with grabbing and then up throw him into potential utilts/fairs/uair strings.

On edgeguards if you go out early enough you can swat both him and the pill away before the pill becomes annoying to deal with and protects him coming back.

 

[Wenbobular]

Without talking about anything else
Why would you ever try to up-b doc from the middle of the stage at 20%

A few bad recovery choices in the first game alone
If you're going to recover high you have to have something planned for his Bair because Marth's moves suck at covering below him

Why are you Fsmashing at 6:40, isn't that basically the worst punish imaginable? You took a hilt hit in the middle of the stage at 51%?

What's with all the Fsmashing in general

Hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fPw0ObKA_JM#t=536s
You land an upair which steals his jump so you basically have free reign to do anything you want
And you weak Fsmash
>_<;;

tldr stop Fsmashing like a dummy and sometimes you make some mad nooby defensive/recovery choices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPw0ObKA_JM
see you can make good combo decisions sometimes (randall was kinda unfortunate but you also reacted mad late to him landing on it, if you just went after him immediately after you saw randall you could've gotten a stronger/better positioned hit in at the very least)

 

[Dart!]

Without talking about anything else
Why would you ever try to up-b doc from the middle of the stage at 20%

A few bad recovery choices in the first game alone
If you're going to recover high you have to have something planned for his Bair because Marth's moves suck at covering below him

Why are you Fsmashing at 6:40, isn't that basically the worst punish imaginable? You took a hilt hit in the middle of the stage at 51%?

What's with all the Fsmashing in general

Hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fPw0ObKA_JM#t=536s
You land an upair which steals his jump so you basically have free reign to do anything you want
And you weak Fsmash
>_<;;

tldr stop Fsmashing like a dummy and sometimes you make some mad nooby defensive/recovery choices

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPw0ObKA_JM
see you can make good combo decisions sometimes (randall was kinda unfortunate but you also reacted mad late to him landing on it, if you just went after him immediately after you saw randall you could've gotten a stronger/better positioned hit in at the very least)

To be fair tipper fsmash always hurts. If it lands i'm a genius if not i'm a noob. I'll work on it.

 

[Wenbobular]

If that's what you were going for then all I can say is work on your tipper spacing haha

 

[Archangel]

I already told you how to fix the problem. Switch to Fox.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Switch to Fox.

It's a 60-40 match-up, man the **** up.

 

[Archangel]

LOOOOOOL.

I actually just can't get around Sheik mentally it's not about advantage or disadvantage in that case. I'm just more comfortable vs sheik with pretty much anyone else I play. Luigi, Fox, Falco, Falcon, Peach, and Puff are all characters I do better with vs Sheik.

 

[leffen]

LOOOOOOL.

I actually just can't get around Sheik mentally it's not about advantage or disadvantage in that case. I'm just more comfortable vs sheik with pretty much anyone else I play. Luigi, Fox, Falco, Falcon, Peach, and Puff are all characters I do better with vs Sheik.

Big woop. Because you lose to random sheiks in pools now everyone should play fox, even those one million times better than you.
You doing better against Sheik when you still don't beat anyone with half a brain doesn't matter **** for top players, know your place scrub

if you are kidding, which you are obviously gonna pull out asap, then that doesn't really make it any better. You're not creative, funny or original, and you're acting exactly how everyone assume a player of your level would

 

[Mahone]

The best secondary for marth is ics... U can wreck sheik and stop *****ing... Also, although i disagree with both of these personally, Marths say ics and puff beat him and ics will help with those matchups... Also wobbling seems to be legal nowadays and that alone could let you to steal some games from midlevel players

 

[Beat!]

Marth ***** Puff.

I have very little experience vs ICs but whenever I play the matchup it doesn't feel like it's worse than even. I'd even argue that Marth is slightly advantegous, but as I said, very little experience.

 

[Blistering Speed]

- Marth, in no way, ***** Puff. I can swing for even if Marth's start playing more like this and utilising pivot tippers out of grabs consistently. Otherwise no.
- Marth beats ICs. Lrn2space and be gay with a selective moveset, swords>hammers.

 

[leffen]

puff loses to marth easy lol

you haven't even played the matchup with proper pivot tipper use, so please don't act like you know it

 

[Beat!]

It's even WITHOUT pivot tippers (not completely sure about that either). With them, Marth wins.

 

[Construct]

The best secondary for marth is ics... U can wreck sheik and stop *****ing... ..... Also wobbling seems to be legal nowadays and that alone could let you to steal some games from midlevel players

Quoted for truth
Also ICs are so so so so fun to play

 

[Niko45]

Fox countering sheik is more of a mid level play. Better sheiks have shown great comfort with that MU so I wouldn't bank on Fox to win that for you.

Marth can win any MU so just get really really good.

 

[Dart!]

Fox countering sheik is more of a mid level play. Better sheiks have shown great comfort with that MU so I wouldn't bank on Fox to win that for you.

Marth can win any MU so just get really really good.

Some situations within the sheik vs marth matchup i'm still trying to figure ways around. Some situations i feel like grab is stuffing everything and if she doesn't grab dash attack also beats it.

 

[Blistering Speed]

you haven't even played the matchup with proper pivot tipper use, so please don't act like you know it

Honestly, I could go into into the fallacies of ad hominem, and how you don't have to have personally implemented a technique to realise its potential utility and applications, but it'd be wasted breath, so I'll just call you a ******** virgin and move on with my life.

 

[Tero.]

Somebody please give me some advice on how to get better

Marth vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_3S5b7j84Q

(keep in mind it's PAL)

 

[MT_]

Somebody please give me some advice on how to get better

Marth vs Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_3S5b7j84Q

(keep in mind it's PAL)

Here comes critique from a mediocre player!!



On FD you need to take advantage of Marth's juggle game against Sheik a LOT more. If you ever feel that you won't be able to directly combo off of uthrow, it is best to let the Sheik double jump (this particular Sheik double jumped after getting uthrown EVERY time instead of falling with an aerial or some other mixup) and then never let her touch the ground ever again via patient fairs, uairs, utilts, and whatever. If you uthrow and try to follow up but fail, Sheik will get free access back to the ground and you might even be put in a losing situation.

I also think you need to stay more grounded in general. Marth outranges Sheik and also has a superior ground movement game than Sheik (the only thing he loses in is in quick sneak attacks because of Sheik's dash attack and boost grab), but Marth loses a lot of this when he is in the air. I think you need to make use of dtilt to gain space and apply pressure. Instead, most of the ground game I saw from you was either dash attack or DD grab which is alright, but it's MORE effective when it's mixed in with a proper dtilt game. If you only rely on sneaky dash attacks or DD grab you'll find yourself in shield a lot which is NOT what Marth wants to be doing as it limits his options a lot. Keep in mind that Marth can utilize his movement + dtilt at almost all spacings with a combination of dashdance and wavedash down (and also normal wavedashes). Sethlon's Roy has the best dtilt game I've ever seen and it's pretty much the same as Marth's on terms of spacing and movement so if you want an idea of how to do it properly maybe watch his vids.

If you find Sheik jumping a lot in the neutral game, DON'T jump after her. Get UNDER her if she ever jumps high, or slightly in front of her for her short hop. If she jumps, she can't dash attack or boost grab at you so it gives you an in to close space and really abuse your superior range. If you get yourself under her, she is super vulnerable to utilt, shffl uair, and all of Marth's juggles and stuff. If Sheik is like diagonally in front/above you, ftilt, utilt, fsmash are all great moves to space against her. She barely has any horizontal movement after jumping so she will have a difficult time messing up your spacing after jumping. Be aware of needles; but Sheiks usually only needle after jumping if they jumped high which should give you time/room to get under her. If they short hopped then they probably won't be trying to needle you but instead fall with a fair or something (but that's outranged by Marth).

I love how consistent you are with the pivot fsmashes, but a good number of them were kind of just thrown out there for no reason and ended up getting you punished. Particularly the ones that you did after you hit Sheik onto the edge. Marth is pretty good at keeping people from returning to the stage once they've grabbed the edge, and while I think pivot fsmash is a decent mixup, you did it way too much lol. Again dtilt is amazing here and it's better to react to Sheik getting up then trying to hard predict with a pivot fsmash imo (of course mixing it in is fine).

You went for quite a few ledgehop bairs to prevent Sheik from recovering but I felt that the success rate wasn't as high as it could be. Make sure that when you are ledgehop bairing you are aiming specifically to steal Sheik's double jump so that you don't mindlessly try to hit her during her invincibility frames in her up-b. In general however I think your edgeguarding versus this Sheik was very good except toward the end but that was probably just a combination of nerves from recognizing the impending loss lol. Just a random idea: try DD up-B to hit her back off in her lag at certain percents? And then tell me how it works for you lol.

Lastly, you need to be a LOT more precise with your recoveries and always be paying attention to Sheik and when she wants to needle you. If you save your double jump while recovering you should be able to outmaneuver the needles which were hitting you a lot. Also, learn to sweetspot your up-B to the ledge lol. I'm not sure how big of a difference it would have made in this set since the Sheik didn't punish the high up-B's very well but it's something I would fix since it's not that hard to do so.


Nice Marth though. Very very smooth and technically sound. Hope this helps lol.


EDIT: Oh and PAL Sheik looks so friendly. D-throw doesn't even combo Marth haha.

 

[Archangel]

Big woop. Because you lose to random sheiks in pools now everyone should play fox, even those one million times better than you.
You doing better against Sheik when you still don't beat anyone with half a brain doesn't matter **** for top players, know your place scrub

if you are kidding, which you are obviously gonna pull out asap, then that doesn't really make it any better. You're not creative, funny or original, and you're acting exactly how everyone assume a player of your level would

LOOOL What do you know about NTSC Sheiks?

You seem to think you are some kind of mastermind working out that I would "pull a joking card". The reason why nobody responded seriously is proof that everyone god the joke....except maybe you. Not to mention you are responding to doesn't match what you say at all really. I say in the quote what is true for me personally. Marth vs Sheik while doable is simply a Match I will not get comfortable playing rather it's against M2K or my little brothers. I can play characters who have just as bad a MU as Marth vs sheik or Worse and do better.


As for you...I'm not sure if this is your way of flirting with me or something but...This dog doesn't bark that way my friend.

 

[Inty17]

To quote the Crimson Blur about a week ago, it's in every Marth player's destiny to switch to Fox.

 

[Archangel]

Ironically I switched to Marth after a brief fox stint.

 

[Inty17]

Screw fox. This is the Marth boards :D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

fyi braid is the ****

 

[Metal Reeper]

^That's weird I just purchased Braid. Gonna start it tomorrow. Can't wait

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

One of my favorite games of all time!!! I wrote a paper on it in english this year and got an A :thumbsup:

 

[Niko45]

Some situations within the sheik vs marth matchup i'm still trying to figure ways around. Some situations i feel like grab is stuffing everything and if she doesn't grab dash attack also beats it.

Well grab beats shielding mostly which dash attack does not so could you elaborate a little more on this situation?

Generally speaking I don't think Marth has all the answers all the time for sheik in terms of being able to counter X with Y in all situations. Sometimes 50/50s are forced and I find in a lot of those situations its just simply better to be the one forcing them than to be having them forced on you.

 

[Archangel]

I find in a lot of those situations its just simply better to be the one forcing them than to be having them forced on you.

Have you ever been to prison?

 

[SwiftBass]

Best defense is a good offense...is what I think niko was referencing.

 

[Ripple]

I hope everyone is ready for a 47min set between Kels and Dart!.

its intense

 

[Dart!]

Well grab beats shielding mostly which dash attack does not so could you elaborate a little more on this situation?

Generally speaking I don't think Marth has all the answers all the time for sheik in terms of being able to counter X with Y in all situations. Sometimes 50/50s are forced and I find in a lot of those situations its just simply better to be the one forcing them than to be having them forced on you.

Nvm, i forgot to dash forward wavedash back. I kept getting caught with my back turned.