Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[ChivalRuse]

I don't think a matchup should be determined by possible DIs or the lack thereof.

 

[Druggedfox]

Well usually the argument from the falcon side talks about guaranteed damage, particularly out of grabs, and an overall very strong punishment game; if you can detract from the effectiveness of said punishment game, that heavily sways the matchup imo.

 

[ChivalRuse]

But wouldn't you still agree that combos are better than tech chasing? Marth's combos on Falcon generally don't lead to tipped f-smashes, and it's hard to set up combos in the first place. If you don't kill Falcon at low percents through gimping or whatever he lives forever. Falcon, on the other hand, can start a combo from any aerial, from a grab usually, and from raptor boost (which is tricky to avoid if Falcon uses it sparingly/your reaction time isn't up to snuff).

Not to mention his jab shenanigans are annoying to deal with at close range.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IDK marth really destroys falcon once you get a hit. I'm nowhere near as good as dart at the matchup; he knows all the percents on the uthrow combos and is exceptional at uair to tip fsmash (not to mention all the fair->fsmash combos and fsmash option overage). Basically, you just knock falcon down ASAP then get him off stage ASAP after that and edgeguard.

 

[ChivalRuse]

His dash dance -> shield and double jump ff aerial strategies are annoying to deal with though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

They have weakness though.

 

[MasterShake]

Falcon is really easy to edgeguard.

That's the only easy part of the mu. It's impossible for Marth to DI out of Captain's combos, and Falcon has guaranteed uthrow aerial (most likely knee, which leads to edgeguard, augh). Imo it's really easy for Falcon to get a grab.

It's not bad for Marth, but it's like Marth vs sheik in that Marth has to work harder for his kills.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falcon can edgeguard Marth really well too.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So I'm going to my first Melee tournament in just over a month, planning on playing mostly Marth with Roy thrown in there at some point maybe. I'm going to try and get some matches recorded.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Falcon can edgeguard Marth really well too.

Most of the cast is easy to edge guard. It's all about knowing the options and knowing how to cut them off.

 

[Niko45]

A major adjustment I realized I need to start making vs Falcon is dtilting his recovery whenever possible as opposed to fsmashing it cause the fsmash gives him more height and better options.

 

[Archangel]

2 things.

1. Niko definitely got off on my falcon....and 2. Niko is completely white....i know it's a shocker but you all will survive.

 

[Metal Reeper]

If Falcon get's Dtilted off stage he's done.
If Falcon is off stage and UpB's the same height as the stage, just charge the HELL outta Fsmash, just make sure the sword goes a tiny bit over the ledge, they then have no options, cause they aren't high enough to go over your head and you will have the ledge covered <3

 

[Niko45]

2 things.
Niko is completely white....i know it's a shocker but you all will survive.

Swag :D

Yo Metal I'm sorry we didn't get to play more I just could not miss m2k vs axe lol. Maybe I'll try to come down to the next big philly tournament or something.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Lol we don't have philly tournies We're gonna try to get some this summer. I could maybe get a venue near me but, idk I need a TO's help.

You were just scared =p

 

[ChivalRuse]

Niko is completely white....i know it's a shocker but you all will survive.

I knew that already.

 

[Niko45]

I've gotten the "I was so sure you were going to be black" thing many many times.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I thought you'd be black before I met you at Princeton.

 

[Archangel]

alot of people where convinced I was white actually....

 

[Niko45]

I thought you were going to be hispanic cause your youtube is like Tiajuan or something.

 

[Palpi]

Niko, were you the one yelling swag all weekend?

 

[Niko45]

I was one of them, yes. There were at least 4 or 5 people doing it tho lol.

 

[Palpi]

Haha, oh. There was one pretty tall white dude with glasses who was louder than the rest of them.

 

[Niko45]

Haha, oh. There was one pretty tall white dude with glasses who was louder than the rest of them.

lollllllll

That's otg. :D

 

[Winston]

That's the only easy part of the mu. It's impossible for Marth to DI out of Captain's combos, and Falcon has guaranteed uthrow aerial (most likely knee, which leads to edgeguard, augh). Imo it's really easy for Falcon to get a grab.

This isn't true... there aren't guaranteed large combos at low percent from, even on flat ground. I think he has to get like 1-2 good reads during the combo.

First of all, dthrow/uthrow dont combo into aerials at low percent. Dthrow combos into nair if you DI in, but that can be SDIed out of.

After uthrow starts comboing into uair most Falcons are gonna start trying to do that, expecting DI away. If you DI in on the uthrow and he uairs that, and you DI down and away on that uair, you can get out. Instant double jump nair might be the counter to that, but Ive never seen Falcons use that in matches so I don't know.

After a little higher percent this becomes a pretty dangerous mixup since he can dthrow -> knee the DI in, but that's still different from a guaranteed combo.

Imo Falcon's best combos in this matchup are like stomp -> knee -> knee and nair -> knee -> knee, but those are way harder to land than grabs.

A major adjustment I realized I need to start making vs Falcon is dtilting his recovery whenever possible as opposed to fsmashing it cause the fsmash gives him more height and better options.

Yeah, my list for preferred moves to edgeguard falcon is something like this:

1). dair
2). dtilt
3). charged neutral B
4). fair
5). fsmash

I try to pick the highest one on the list that I can land guaranteed based on his recovery arc. I mean it's more situational than that but I think in general that's pretty accurate.

Basically I think fsmash should be a last resort option, except in situations where you're sure you'll tipper at low percents, but in those cases other options work also.

If Falcon is off stage and UpB's the same height as the stage, just charge the HELL outta Fsmash, just make sure the sword goes a tiny bit over the ledge, they then have no options, cause they aren't high enough to go over your head and you will have the ledge covered <3

charged neutral B is stronger than non tipper fsmash, so I think it's better since it'll be enough to kill him if you have that much time to charge.

 

[Niko45]

Falcon also has other devastating stuff, like up throw at around 30% on to a side platform, which forces marth to tech on said platform. Falcon can then full hop dair your tech in place and still have time to regrab if you decided to tech roll to the other side of the platform. He can also do a rising full hop nair which covers the entire platform and combos mercilessly into knee.

Falcon off a grab > Sheik off a grab.

 

[Winston]

Does he still have time to stomp -> regrab techroll if you DI the throw away? I don't have experience with that.

Also, its not like you always have to land on the platform. If you are under it so you don't have the option of DIing in to avoid landing on it, you can often DI so that you can slide off the platform. It's not easy, but its not impossible either.

The full hop rising nair is fine as a trick, but you can just hold down and slide off the platform and not be in stun anymore.

Falcon has really good stuff off a grab, but it's different from saying "you can't escape falcon's combos off grab".

 

[Metal Reeper]

I played spam arrows,(not knowing it was him) Later I heard his name, asked someone who he was, then I had to double take cause he was black lol.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm with Niko on this. Who cares if Falcon has to get a few reads in order to finish Marth from a grab?! I'd rather be in a situation where I force the Marth to guess for his life than be the one guessing.

 

[Archangel]

I thought you were going to be hispanic cause your youtube is like Tiajuan or something.

lol...thats my name man. Although the spelling of it is changed to Taijuan.....still i get that alot.

I played spam arrows,(not knowing it was him) Later I heard his name, asked someone who he was, then I had to double take cause he was black lol.

LOOOOOOOOOOL. It was nice meeting you/playing you. I trolled you so bad with my scrubby fox.

 

[rikukanu]

Umm hi i just started marth like a week ago and i would like some advice i know im not that good so any help would be nice here are some of my matchs D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXU3uE-HpuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihjTiulmsbM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDsobfoXk-8&feature=related

hope someone replys :|

 

[Druggedfox]

I'm with Niko on this. Who cares if Falcon has to get a few reads in order to finish Marth from a grab?! I'd rather be in a situation where I force the Marth to guess for his life than be the one guessing.

1) The guessing doesn't necessarily lead to death, even if they guess correctly.
2) I'd rather have something guaranteed.
3) Niko's situation is actually beaten by not teching, unless there's a timing that hits you as soon as you tech in place, but also late enough that you can't avoid it by not teching --> something; additionally, you can slide off of platforms easily half the time you're thrown there.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Niko is physically attractive to me.

 

[ChivalRuse]

David MacDonald is a hottie.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Taijuan

i disagree....

 

[booshk]

what do you guys do after a f-throw nontipper dtilt on falcon?
it'd be nice to have all option covered :D

any nice combos off u-throw? anyone know percents :3

 

[Metal Reeper]

If you miss the Dtilt I would say Jab would be the next option, but they will probably get the ledge, just don't let em back on stage.

If you Uthrow Falcon at around 41% you can Utilt right afterwards and then go into some Fair>Uiar kinda stuff.

 

[rikukanu]

can anyone help? :|

 

[Winston]

if it's close enough by the edge, like if your dtilt would be poking out at least half over the edge or so, then I think fthrow is a guaranteed KO on Falcon with good execution.

fthrow nontipper dtilt, then either dtilt again or runoff fair depending on how far he went from the dtilt. It should be a guaranteed hit.

fthrow tipper dtilt, well you're in business then and you can probably figure that out.

fthrow they DI away dtilt misses, runoff the edge then dj back with a fair. The hitbox dragging covers falcon's attempt to dj back and grab the edge, leaving him with no jump and having to up B. If they don't jump back immediately then they lose the chance to grab the edge with dj and have to up B anyway.

runoff dj back dair might also work, now that I think about it, but I haven't experimented with this. Fair works though.

If it's not that close to the edge then you have to go for a riskier runoff fair, or just do what Metal Reeper said and try to control his attempts to get back onstage.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Thanks Winston, I'll try that all out next time I play. When I miss the Dtilt I doubt I can Runoff>Fair, but I will try :D